From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #288 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, September 22 2000 Volume 03 : Number 288 Today's Subjects: ----------------- unreleased CD's [kevin eden ] Re: non-British/Americans ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] WMO releases [Wireviews ] RE: non-British/Americans ["giluz" ] Napster question [Carl Archer ] Re: Napster question [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] RE: Napster question ["giluz" ] RE: Napster question [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] DATs n things [Joseph Silber ] How Napster Works ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: [idealcopy] Napster question [Aaron Mandel ] Re: How Napster Works [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Napster question ["lucifersam" ] Re: Napster question [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: Napster question ["lucifersam" ] Napster & Download Speeds ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: Napster & Download Speeds ["Katherine Pouliot" ] RE: Napster & Download Speeds ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: Napster & Download Speeds ["stephenjohnstone" ] Re: Napster & Download Speeds [Carl Archer ] Re: Napster & Download Speeds ["lucifersam" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:33:06 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: unreleased CD's Just to finally set the record straight about our unreleased CD's. Ex-Lion Tamers - Flap King. This was not up for release. 2 so-called 'tribute' Cd's is enough for any label Colin Newman - Vox Pop. Colin's decision ws to pull away from this project. A decision we were happy to abide by. He has stated that if he ever decides to return to it he will issue it on CD-R thru Swim~ Bruce Gilbert - The Haring 2 Still on the cards. Will be released as mail order only. Bruce has other more pressing considerations, such as Wire, at present. Michael O'Shea Still a possible contender for future CD-R limited run. We are keeping our options open. MZUI No commercial value in trying to release this. Hope that clears any and all misinformation and speculatuion ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:38:44 EDT From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: non-British/Americans giluz asked: >ps. How many other non-British/Americans are there on this list >anyway? I don't know if being born in Belarus and moving to US 5 years ago counts... Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://belmusic.hypermart.net _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:49:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: WMO releases >>. what happened to the albums that were pre-advertised on the insert to "Turns and Strokes", but were not released? >>> WMO Newsletter 3.3 details the WMO unreleased catalogue and is available online. The direct link is http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/w_wmo_33.html Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:04:56 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: non-British/Americans > giluz asked: > >ps. How many other non-British/Americans are there on this list > >anyway? > I don't know if being born in Belarus and moving to US 5 years > ago counts... > > Syarzhuk > > Be healthy, stay wealthy... > Actually it's up to you, but in the meantime I'll count you as 0.5 - OK? (if you'd have moved to any country other than US/Britain you'd score more than 1!!! probably get even as high as 1.75, but it's your loss) giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:16:03 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Napster question Are a lot of people on this list using Napster? I know I am. - -Carl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:30:38 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: Napster question I only have access to a PC at work so I don't. Do you use Napster to listen to tracks before buying? I know they've quite an extensive catalogue but do they have obscure tracks / artists too? Chris. **Sorry about this**: Does anyone know of decent accommodation in Hamburg? Frank? Carl Archer on 21/09/2000 14:16:03 To: IdealCopy cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: Napster question Are a lot of people on this list using Napster? I know I am. - -Carl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:16:51 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Napster question > I only have access to a PC at work so I don't. Do you use Napster > to listen > to tracks before buying? I know they've quite an extensive > catalogue but do > they have obscure tracks / artists too? > > Chris. > > Are a lot of people on this list using Napster? I know I am. > > -Carl > I use napster, quite a lot actually. You can find some obscure stuff in there, but that mainly depends on when you log in, since it's all dependant on other online users. Don't expect to find much Wire related stuff, even though I stumbled onto Pink Flag (the whole album) once. I usually download everything I can find of the artist I'm interested in, listen and buy the CD if I like it - much better than the 30 seconds preview of online record shops. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:38:36 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: RE: Napster question >>You can find some obscure stuff in there, but that mainly depends on when you log in, since it's all dependant on >>other online users. Isn't there a library you can tap into? "giluz" on 21/09/2000 16:16:51 To: "IdealCopy" , Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS cc: Subject: RE: Napster question > I only have access to a PC at work so I don't. Do you use Napster > to listen > to tracks before buying? I know they've quite an extensive > catalogue but do > they have obscure tracks / artists too? > > Chris. > > Are a lot of people on this list using Napster? I know I am. > > -Carl > I use napster, quite a lot actually. You can find some obscure stuff in there, but that mainly depends on when you log in, since it's all dependant on other online users. Don't expect to find much Wire related stuff, even though I stumbled onto Pink Flag (the whole album) once. I usually download everything I can find of the artist I'm interested in, listen and buy the CD if I like it - much better than the 30 seconds preview of online record shops. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:05:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Silber Subject: DATs n things << Subject: Re: DATs >>> <<>> I was selling records at the time and remember the release of Ideal Copy on DAT. Devo wanted the first simultaneous 5-format release with Total Devo (LP, CD, Cassette, DAT, 8-Track), but couldn't line up the 8-track duplicating facilities in time. - -an extra 8 cents to the discussion ~joseph =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- <> sagt Joe. <>, sagt ich. <> malachimulligan@excite.com - - --- giluz wrote: > > > > As for Ultimate Wire Rarity - how many of you have > the DAT > > release of Ideal > > Copy? with the original long box? > > > > I thought the record companies didn't release albums > on DAT, for the same > reason they don't release albums on MD (at least > that's what I heard at the > time). _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:05:31 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: How Napster Works Chris Ray wrote concerning Napster: Isn't there a library you can tap into? ================ Chris reflects what I think the general public knows, or in this case doesn't know, about Napster. I think the general impression people get is that Napster is a gigantic server sitting somewhere with zillions of MP3 files on it that you can download. That's just plain wrong... Napster is a big database. That's it. It's what this database does that makes things interesting. When you launch the Napster client (or Macster for us Mac users) and log onto Napster, what happens is that you are registering your computer as both a Napster client AND server. Any MP3 files you have marked as being part of your 'shared library' now become available to anyone else on the Napster peer-to-peer network. The Napster database adds the MP3's in your 'shared library' to the master list in its database. So if you have an MP3 of 'Neon Lights' by Love Tractor in your 'shared library', and some other Napster user does a search for the song title, 'Neon Lights', besides a bunch of listings for 'Neon Lights' by Kraftwerk, they might get the jangly-twang cover version by Love Tractor that you have made available. If they choose to download the file, it is not downloaded from Napster, it's downloaded directly from your computer. In summary, when you are downloading an MP3 via Napster, it's NOT coming from the Napster web-site or server, it's coming from someone else's PC or Mac. Napster simply provides the database that lets the client and server portion of their software connect and communicate. BTW, I'm a Napster/Macster user, and MP3's have moved me to purchase more CD's by more artists than I would have ever purchased otherwise. An example, I just purchased 'Music Has The Right To Children' by 'Boards of Canada'. I can guarantee you that had I not downloaded a 'Boards of Canada' MP3, I'd have never heard of them, and never purchased one of their CD's. MP3's can be good for the recording industry, they're just too scared to realize that yet. Cheers, Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:06:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Napster question On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Carl Archer wrote: > Are a lot of people on this list using Napster? I know I am. I used to, but now I am always told that the servers are full. The variety of things available on OpenNap is much smaller. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:58:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: How Napster Works On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Ciscon, Ray wrote: > When you launch the Napster client (or Macster for us Mac users) and log > onto Napster, what happens is that you are registering your computer as both > a Napster client AND server. Any MP3 files you have marked as being part of > your 'shared library' now become available to anyone else on the Napster > peer-to-peer network. The Napster database adds the MP3's in your 'shared > library' to the master list in its database. So if you have an MP3 of 'Neon > Lights' by Love Tractor in your 'shared library', and some other Napster > user does a search for the song title, 'Neon Lights', besides a bunch of > listings for 'Neon Lights' by Kraftwerk, they might get the jangly-twang > cover version by Love Tractor that you have made available. If they choose > to download the file, it is not downloaded from Napster, it's downloaded > directly from your computer. > > In summary, when you are downloading an MP3 via Napster, it's NOT coming > from the Napster web-site or server, it's coming from someone else's PC or > Mac. Napster simply provides the database that lets the client and server > portion of their software connect and communicate. > > MP3's can be good for the recording industry, they're just too scared to > realize that yet. Thanks for the lucid explanation of how Napster works (which I've always been rather fuzzy on, as a non-user so far). I think the recording industry realizes full well that MP3s are good for it - Napster etc. scares them because they have no control over it. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::Let's quit talking about it and start watching it on TV:: __Susan Lowry__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:59:54 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Napster question I now have about 500MB of files downloaded......some good bootleg stuff. > Are a lot of people on this list using Napster? I know I am. > > -Carl > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:15:59 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Napster question I now have about 500MB of files downloaded......some good bootleg stuff. ////// i've got a decent set-up at home now so i'm just starting to muck around with music downloads. didn't realise how long it took though ; i've got a fairly decent pentium machine and a 56k modem yet one track can take 10-15 minutes. so how on earth long would a whole pink flag cd take? respect to the "pay attention i am wired" site , those concerts are really good. must go try this napster thing if only to annoy lars "you look nice in that suit" ulrich , the lawyers best mate. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:21:36 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Napster question To be honest, I've waited up to an hour for some tracks I want. I have a 56k as well. But as I'm with NTL, it doesn't cost anything anyway! > I now have about 500MB of files downloaded......some good bootleg stuff. > > ////// i've got a decent set-up at home now so i'm just starting to muck > around with music downloads. didn't realise how long it took though ; i've > got a fairly decent pentium machine and a 56k modem yet one track can take > 10-15 minutes. so how on earth long would a whole pink flag cd take? > > respect to the "pay attention i am wired" site , those concerts are really > good. must go try this napster thing if only to annoy lars "you look nice in > that suit" ulrich , the lawyers best mate. p > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:32:23 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: Napster & Download Speeds Lucifersam wrote: To be honest, I've waited up to an hour for some tracks I want. I have a 56k as well. But as I'm with NTL, it doesn't cost anything anyway! > ////// i've got a decent set-up at home now so i'm just starting to muck > around with music downloads. didn't realise how long it took though ; i've > got a fairly decent pentium machine and a 56k modem yet one track can take > 10-15 minutes. so how on earth long would a whole pink flag cd take? > > respect to the "pay attention i am wired" site , those concerts are really > good. must go try this napster thing if only to annoy lars "you look nice in > that suit" ulrich , the lawyers best mate. p ============= Allow me to heartily endorse DSL, in any of its flavors, to any and all who need fast, full-time access to the internet. My wife and I just recently had an IDSL line installed into our house, and despite more than doubling our monthly cost for internet access, we love it! IDSL is DSL running over ISDN. I'm limited to a max. throughput of 144Kbps up and down. I had to go with IDSL because our house is almost 30,000 feet from our local CO (Central Office). You can get much faster speeds, over 1.5Mbps in some cases, if you are closer to your CO. If you live in the USA, and want faster internet connectivity, try www.2wire.com It's an excellent site that will tell you whether or not you can get DSL in your area, and how far from the CO you are, and also lists every ISP that offers DSL service in your area... quite the handy little site! We now pay $50 per month for IDSL, but our internet connection is faster, always on, and we have every PC & Mac in the house connected! Now if I could just get my wife to stop using AOL... we could save $10 bucks a month that way! Check it out! Cheers, Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:16:35 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Napster & Download Speeds My husband and I have had cable modem for almost a couple years now. We were the first household in our town to get it, way back when. We just got it hooked up in the new house today. We get really fast downloads with it, and we are able to hook up a LAN with the Macs (and occasional work PC) we have in the house. It costs us about $40 per month, which is twice what our normal modem line was, but is very worth it since we both have web sites, and he works from home now a few days a month. Also, I use Macster or Rapster to get MP3's. One of them, I think Rapster, gives you the ping times on each server which is really helpful to see how responsive the servers are. Down with time-outs! Ray, have your wife sign up with Excite or Altavista (or any of the bzillion other sites) for free internet! Forget AOL is right! I've converted a few of my friends and my dad off that awful service. It's so much less hassle to just use the browser of choice with Outlook Express or Netscape Communicator. katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ciscon, Ray To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: Napster & Download Speeds > Lucifersam wrote: > > To be honest, I've waited up to an hour for some tracks I want. I have a > 56k as well. > But as I'm with NTL, it doesn't cost anything anyway! > > > ////// i've got a decent set-up at home now so i'm just starting to muck > > around with music downloads. didn't realise how long it took though ; i've > > got a fairly decent pentium machine and a 56k modem yet one track can take > > 10-15 minutes. so how on earth long would a whole pink flag cd take? > > > > respect to the "pay attention i am wired" site , those concerts are really > > good. must go try this napster thing if only to annoy lars "you look nice > in > > that suit" ulrich , the lawyers best mate. p > ============= > Allow me to heartily endorse DSL, in any of its flavors, to any and all who > need fast, full-time access to the internet. > > My wife and I just recently had an IDSL line installed into our house, and > despite more than doubling our monthly cost for internet access, we love it! > > IDSL is DSL running over ISDN. I'm limited to a max. throughput of 144Kbps > up and down. I had to go with IDSL because our house is almost 30,000 feet > from our local CO (Central Office). You can get much faster speeds, over > 1.5Mbps in some cases, if you are closer to your CO. If you live in the USA, > and want faster internet connectivity, try www.2wire.com > > It's an excellent site that will tell you whether or not you can get DSL in > your area, and how far from the CO you are, and also lists every ISP that > offers DSL service in your area... quite the handy little site! > > We now pay $50 per month for IDSL, but our internet connection is faster, > always on, and we have every PC & Mac in the house connected! Now if I could > just get my wife to stop using AOL... we could save $10 bucks a month that > way! > > Check it out! > > Cheers, > > Ray Ciscon > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:32:08 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: Napster & Download Speeds Katherine Pouliot wrote: Ray, have your wife sign up with Excite or Altavista (or any of the bzillion other sites) for free internet! Forget AOL is right! I've converted a few of my friends and my dad off that awful service. It's so much less hassle to just use the browser of choice with Outlook Express or Netscape Communicator. ==================== Katherine, It's not the method of connecting to the internet that she uses AOL for, it's the content... My wife sells Longaberger baskets as a hobby/2nd job, and AOL has a huge Longaberger contingent that she loves to keep in touch with... If it wasn't for that, I'd have had her off of AOL years ago! *** Blatant Commercial Break to Follow *** My wife Tonya, would like to take a moment of your time to let you know that if any of you Wire fans would be interested in purchasing Longaberger baskets, pottery, wrought iron, or other fine goods, feel free to contact her at tonyalee@aol.com, where she'd love to fill you in on the latest catalog items. You can also check them out at their web site, www.longaberger.com *** End of the Commercial Break (Thank God!) *** Cheers, Ray & Tonya ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:46:43 +0100 From: "stephenjohnstone" Subject: Re: Napster & Download Speeds I am also using a 56k and have cut down on the use of napster. The problem I have with Napster is that my whole connection is slowed down. And even when Im not downloading anything my connection is very poor, this is because other Napster user are sucking my bandwidth(OOoo..err) to download files from me. I think the only way round this is not to share the sexy tracks on my PC, not fair to others really, so I dont do it. Stephen napster ID: McStevie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:34:51 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: Napster & Download Speeds Stephen Johnstone wrote: I am also using a 56k and have cut down on the use of napster. The problem I have with Napster is that my whole connection is slowed down. And even when Im not downloading anything my connection is very poor, this is because other Napster user are sucking my bandwidth(OOoo..err) to download files from me. I think the only way round this is not to share the sexy tracks on my PC, not fair to others really, so I dont do it. Stephen napster ID: McStevie ===================== Technically, not true... unless you're using a 'WinModem' or a very cheap real modem. Any 'real' modem that has it's own processing power should be able to maintain maximum throughput possible in both directions, upload and download. That's the way modems are designed, and the v.90 spec was laid out. If you're using a 'WinModem', which most internal modems are these days, all bets are off. 'WinModems', pieces of crap that they are, use the PC's processor to all of the work that a real modem would do. Connect 2 and 2, and you see that if you're working on something that utilizes a lot of your CPU time, you're modem throughput is going to go down. If you're going to communicate with the outside world, I'd recommend using the following pecking order: 1) Any kind of broadband connection, i.e. DSL Cable Modem (don't forget to use a firewall) 2) A REAL modem, preferably external, i.e. a US Robotics v.90 modem. All external modems are REAL modems (with the exception of Apple's GeoPort modems, but they had the smarts to stop using those years ago) 3) If it's the only thing you can afford, use an internal 'WinModem' and don't run any other applications while you are uploading and downloading. WinModems Suck! Cheers, Ray (Telco Geek for the Day) Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:50:31 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: Napster & Download Speeds The man speaks the truth. I sell modems all damn day long myself. Ray has the word Cisco in his name though, so he has a leg up on me. WinModems are utter crap. Avoid them as though they were covered with herpes. - -Carl > From: "Ciscon, Ray" > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:34:51 -0500 > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: RE: Napster & Download Speeds > > Stephen Johnstone wrote: > > I am also using a 56k and have cut down on the use of napster. The problem I > have with Napster is that my whole connection is slowed down. And even when > Im not downloading anything my connection is very poor, this is because > other Napster user are sucking my bandwidth(OOoo..err) to download files > from me. I think the only way round this is not to share the sexy tracks on > my PC, not fair to others really, so I dont do it. > > Stephen > napster ID: McStevie > ===================== > > Technically, not true... unless you're using a 'WinModem' or a very cheap > real modem. > > Any 'real' modem that has it's own processing power should be able to > maintain maximum throughput possible in both directions, upload and > download. That's the way modems are designed, and the v.90 spec was laid > out. > > If you're using a 'WinModem', which most internal modems are these days, all > bets are off. 'WinModems', pieces of crap that they are, use the PC's > processor to all of the work that a real modem would do. Connect 2 and 2, > and you see that if you're working on something that utilizes a lot of your > CPU time, you're modem throughput is going to go down. > > If you're going to communicate with the outside world, I'd recommend using > the following pecking order: > > 1) Any kind of broadband connection, i.e. DSL Cable Modem (don't forget to > use a firewall) > 2) A REAL modem, preferably external, i.e. a US Robotics v.90 modem. All > external modems are REAL modems (with the exception of Apple's GeoPort > modems, but they had the smarts to stop using those years ago) > 3) If it's the only thing you can afford, use an internal 'WinModem' and > don't run any other applications while you are uploading and downloading. > > WinModems Suck! > > Cheers, > > Ray (Telco Geek for the Day) Ciscon > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 07:54:20 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Napster & Download Speeds I loaded a couple of Wire tracks into my MP3 file from a couple of CD's. Dot Dash seems to be quite a popular one, as is I am the Fly! I 'nearlly' always let people share my files as that seems to be the spirit of thing. I only block people if it's taking a long time to download from somewhere else. > I am also using a 56k and have cut down on the use of napster. The problem I > have with Napster is that my whole connection is slowed down. And even when > Im not downloading anything my connection is very poor, this is because > other Napster user are sucking my bandwidth(OOoo..err) to download files > from me. I think the only way round this is not to share the sexy tracks on > my PC, not fair to others really, so I dont do it. > > Stephen > napster ID: McStevie > > > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #288 *******************************