From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #285 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, September 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 285 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: The future of media [P.Wilson@bury.gov.uk] Re The Fall RFH22.9.00 [alan gray ] RE: The future of media [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: Ultra Vivid Scene [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Ultra Vivid Scene [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: Re The Fall RFH22.9.00 [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: Performance-Enhancing Music [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: 8 Track Minds [george.m.hook@ac.com] RE: The future of media [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: Re The Fall RFH22.9.00 [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: The future of media ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:43:53 +0100 From: P.Wilson@bury.gov.uk Subject: RE: The future of media I remember reading (several months ago) about a new form of CD that is being worked on. From what I can remember, it will be like a clear plastic CD, in which the data is stored at molecular level. This means that tracks can be laid down one on top of the other. They will be re-recordable (I think the idea for usage is mainly for storing computer data), and will have a capacity in excess of 100 times the current capacity of a CD! It will be a few years being developed, but will be the ultimate. It seems that new technology is becoming obsolete, even before it appears in the shops! At least vinyl is still hear - and always will be. Sound IS analogue!!!!!! Paul KW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 05:02:50 -0400 (EDT) From: alan gray Subject: Re The Fall RFH22.9.00 >>they'll all go up to the stage to sing Hip Priest together a->>la-BandAid >>style, and the stage will collapse? That would be an >>appropriate ending for >>the Fall, innit? >> >>Now THAT I would like to see.....but there is no end to the >>Fall....MES will >>be doing this when he's collecting his pension... >>Mark Yes, following a global catastrophe it would probably be just the cockroaches and MES left. Under these circumstances MES ability to scrape together a new line up would be tested but he could manage it. He wouldn't need a big van for touring, and at gigs any hecklers could be simply stamped on and squashed. Alan - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:59:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: The future of media On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 P.Wilson@bury.gov.uk wrote: > I remember reading (several months ago) about a new form of CD that is being > worked on. From what I can remember, it will be like a clear plastic CD, in > which the data is stored at molecular level. This means that tracks can be > laid down one on top of the other. They will be re-recordable (I think the > idea for usage is mainly for storing computer data), and will have a > capacity in excess of 100 times the current capacity of a CD! It will be a > few years being developed, but will be the ultimate. It seems that new > technology is becoming obsolete, even before it appears in the shops! The problem I see with all these predictions of media that hold oodles of data is this: who needs it? You note these HyperDiscs (there - i just made up their name: now pay me) are intended for computer data - okay, I can see the need for 65,000 MB of data there - but I'm not sure I'd really want, say, every Wire release on a single CD. You'd lose a whole lot in packaging - there'd barely be room for all the song titles - and to me, the visual presentation of recordings is nearly as important as the music. I'm reminded of a scene in Nicolas Roeg's _The Man Who Fell to Earth _ (you know, with David Bowie), where someone's using this way-cool "future" sound source - which turns out to be a little ball about the size of a peach pit. I thought to myself - man, that'd sure be easy to lose, misplace, have roll under the couch, etc. Not practical. > At least vinyl is still hear - and always will be. Sound IS analogue!!!!!! Uh, it "is" analogue in some senses - but vinyl "is" electronically modulated waveforms, which sound "isn't." At a professional recording level, there may well be some advantages to analogue recording - but as a consumer medium, vinyl's inferior, simply because in order to get sound quality as good as CD, you need much more expensive equipment, and the vinyl decays rapidly. That is, it's actually more elitist than CDs are. Uh-oh - I may have just restarted the CD/vinyl wars.... Sorry. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::Drive ten thousand miles across America and you will know more about ::the country than all the institutes of sociology and political science ::put together. __Jean Baudrillard__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:01:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Ultra Vivid Scene Paul, << >>>>> yep , there was. kurt doesn't sing and he co-wrote about 2 songs max. very limp and jangly , like a bad wedding present or similar. what's the single called? p >> It's called Don't look now - written by the other bloke. Sort of slow Rain Parade psychedelia - you can see where it was headed. The B-side is wimpy though - it sounds very English, and of its time (1985) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:22:40 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Ultra Vivid Scene << >>>>> yep , there was. kurt doesn't sing and he co-wrote about 2 songs max. very limp and jangly , like a bad wedding present or similar. what's the single called? p >> It's called Don't look now - written by the other bloke. Sort of slow Rain Parade psychedelia - you can see where it was headed. The B-side is wimpy though - it sounds very English, and of its time (1985) /////// they do that (well i presume its the same song) on the excellent "blood & thunder" 12". the album version of b&t is a 10 minute freakout whereas the single cuts it down to about 4. us copies had the single free with the rev album. "wimpy" is a bit of an undersatatement for most of the crash album , "c86" would be fair. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:33:37 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Re The Fall RFH22.9.00 Yes, following a global catastrophe it would probably be just the cockroaches and MES left. Under these circumstances MES ability to scrape together a new line up would be tested but he could manage it. He wouldn't need a big van for touring, and at gigs any hecklers could be simply stamped on and squashed. /////// and then he'd licence the DAT out to some cheapo label and make some beer money with the 157th shoddy compilation of his career :-). but seriously , i see on the fall site that they're playing oxford in november (the 19th i think). now thinking about where the uk listers i know live (2 in leicester , 1 in oxford , a few in the home counties , me near birmingham) you probably couldn't get a more central point. and the fall are generally worth a look. just a thought...... p - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -- ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (rly-yh01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.33]) by air-yh05.mail.aol.com (v75_b4.3) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 05:14:34 - -0400 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [216.200.102.14]) by rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 05:14:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id FAA28045; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 05:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Mon, 18 Sep 2000 05:03:36 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id FAA28035 for idealcopy-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 05:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rmx602-mta.mail.com (rmx602-mta.mail.com [165.251.48.51]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with ESMTP id FAA28031 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 05:03:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web176-ec (web176-ec.mail.com [165.251.32.151]) by rmx602-mta.mail.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10226 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 05:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <382324428.969267772468.JavaMail.root@web176-ec> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 05:02:50 -0400 (EDT) From: alan gray To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re The Fall RFH22.9.00 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 194.80.228.25 Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:46:28 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Performance-Enhancing Music I will be very interested to know if any of the UK team in Sydney for the marathon use Wire recordings as part of their training. ////// maybe they could borrow a copy of dan's "flock of seagulls greatest hits" and do a little substitution to undermine the opposition? or would they run faster to escape........... p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:46:56 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: Re: 8 Track Minds Judging by the look of the local Chicago record shops, vinyl is not quite dead in this area. True, as mass marketing goes, vinyl is no longer viable, but try to find decent used records in the shops around here, and you see that the situation is not as good as five years ago. And, you just don't see, say, 10 or 12 shrinkwrapped new vinyl discoveries going for a buck or two apiece anymore. Something about vintage analog still turns on the discerning listener. Today at my favorite used record store, some guy from Greece was buying up about 15-20 full boxes of used classical records for shipment to sell in his home country. People still want it. If anything, DVD will be the next medium of choice. My favorite classical label, Naxos, is certainly gearing up for that eventuality. But I don't think CDs will go the route of the 8-track. CDs do not have the kind of mechanical deficiencies that 8-track exhibited. George ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:03:43 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: The future of media >I'm reminded of a scene in Nicolas Roeg's _The Man Who Fell to Earth _ >(you know, with David Bowie), where someone's using this way-cool "future" >sound source - which turns out to be a little ball about the size of a >peach pit. I thought to myself - man, that'd sure be easy to lose, >misplace, have roll under the couch, etc. Not practical. > Or, Men In Black, when Tommy Lee Jones holds up that little ball of audio that an alien designed and says something like "Damn - now I have to buy the White Album again." (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:56:05 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re The Fall RFH22.9.00 Paul, << but seriously , i see on the fall site that they're playing oxford in november (the 19th i think). now thinking about where the uk listers i know live (2 in leicester , 1 in oxford , a few in the home counties , me near birmingham) you probably couldn't get a more central point. and the fall are generally worth a look. just a thought...... p >> Sounds a good idea....we could meet up at the Museum of Modern Art.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:09:34 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: The future of media > The problem I see with all these predictions of media that hold oodles of > data is this: who needs it? You note these HyperDiscs (there - i just made > up their name: now pay me) are intended for computer data - okay, I can > see the need for 65,000 MB of data there - but I'm not sure I'd really > want, say, every Wire release on a single CD. You'd lose a whole lot in > packaging - there'd barely be room for all the song titles - and to me, > the visual presentation of recordings is nearly as important as the music. But it'll never be worse than the move from vinyl LP's to CD's. That was the death sentence of music packaging, and I can't think of anything new which will be relatively worse. One of the favourite things you could do with new records is to flip through the sleeve and everything while you listen to it for the 1st time. I do this out of habit now, but it's not the same with CD's. Think of all the great sleeve designs you had on vinyl - nothing that good ever came out on CD - it's just too small, it's in a plastic case, made of thin paper, the sleevenotes are either too short or it's a kinda small (but too thick) book. Look at the sleeve of Sgt. Pepper, look at all the sleeves of those old Faust LP's and compare them to their CD releases - it's fucking pathetic!!! OK, so people would say - those were sleeves that weren't designed for CD's, so of course they wouldn't look good on CD's, but can you think of anything comparable originally released on CD? > At a professional recording level, there may well be some advantages to > analogue recording - but as a consumer medium, vinyl's inferior, simply > because in order to get sound quality as good as CD, you need much more > expensive equipment, and the vinyl decays rapidly. That is, it's actually > more elitist than CDs are. > Yeah, I agree completely. I couldn't be bothered to take care of my vinyls and turntable now. But there's one thing to be said in favour of vinyl (apart from the all that's been said soundwise): I can't imagine that any of today's or tomorrow's digital storage medias could be turned into a musical instrument. Vinyl doesn't suck - it's just too expensive... giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #285 *******************************