From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #273 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, September 7 2000 Volume 03 : Number 273 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: eminem ["giluz" ] RE: rollins & eminem ["giluz" ] Beatles Mono Reissues ["giluz" ] Computer Rot ["wiremailorder.com" ] Think yourself lucky... [Wireviews ] Think yourself lucky... [Wireviews ] eminem and hiller ["dMc" ] Re: Beatles Mono Reissues [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Rogers /Jean [alan gray ] Re: Rogers /Jean [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: Rogers /Jean ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: Rogers /Jean [MarkBursa@aol.com] HUGE difference in Morning Moon Mercy? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?=] The (semi-) triumphant return of Matmos [Joseph Silber ] Re: from a flaming pie [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: eminem and youth [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Eminem [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: from a flaming pie ["tube disaster" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:57:48 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: eminem Jeffrey with 2 Fs wrote: > That is, Eminem's probably an asshole regardless of the current commercial > marketplace - but that marketplace basically encourages him to act that > way in order to sell more records. > Can you be a bit more specific, cause I seem to be completely ignorant of anything the man said or done? Katherine Pouliot wrote: > I can laugh at his videos too. That is because > adults have a lot more brainpower to decide what they like and not be > influenced by the negative stuff. Kids don't. That is what gets to > me--that kids everywhere think he's so cool. That's a completely different subject and has to do with the influence of the media on kids. That's a real problem and I understand your feelings. There's a great problem, mainly with rappers, and their chauvinistic violent image, but that doesn't make their music bad. I can still appreciate the music if it's good. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:01:40 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: rollins & eminem > i haven't followed rollins music much at all, but wasn't black > flag around at > least 10 years before pearl jam? i remember seeing their records > in stores, > probably around 82-83. as for his voice not holding up as well as > jagger's...have you listened to the difference in their styles?? I wasn't comparing their voices, I meant that he sounds as anachronistic/old as Jagger - I just couldn't think of any other prominent OLD rock figure at the moment and Jagger just popped in. I got to know Rollins during the 90's - it's my complete ignorance that caused me to assume that was the start of his career. I still didn't like the gig and it still sounded like the most boring heavy metal music I've heard in ages. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:05:10 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Beatles Mono Reissues > > Like, when are we going to get Beatles albums reissued in their original > mono state on CD? Says here in the paper that EMI or somebody will be > rereleasing all the Number 1 Beatles songs on CD soon. A repackaging > effort. They'll be remastered, but not remixed, like the Yellow Submarine > project. So, who cares? I'd rather hear Sgt Peppers or Revolver in > original mono state (like the rerelease of Pink Floyd's "Piper at > the Gates > of Dawn" not too long ago). > Actually, the 1st CD releases of Beatles albums up till Revolver were in mono. EMI claimed that the primitive full pan stereo used in those records could not be transferred to the new technology. Basically, they probably thought that yuppies would not like to hear one instrument coming out of one speaker and another from the 2nd speaker. I heard the same claim being made on a reissue of old Phil Spector productions. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 06:57:08 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: Computer Rot Well, here's an oxymoron, ;) >>The CD refuses to play in all but the best CD < Subject: Think yourself lucky... >As for Wire, sure would have like to have >heard 21-bit remasters of ... oh everything, >instead of the simple reissue that Mute did >not too long ago. >They sounded okay, but, songs like >"Pieta" deserve the royal treatment. Think yourself lucky -- Mute didn't bother reissuing the Wire '80s/'90s albums in the UK, so TFL, Drill, IBTABA and Manscape never made it to mid-price! Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 06:29:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Think yourself lucky... >As for Wire, sure would have like to have >heard 21-bit remasters of ... oh everything, >instead of the simple reissue that Mute did >not too long ago. >They sounded okay, but, songs like >"Pieta" deserve the royal treatment. Think yourself lucky -- Mute didn't bother reissuing the Wire '80s/'90s albums in the UK, so TFL, Drill, IBTABA and Manscape never made it to mid-price! Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 08:36:52 -0500 From: "dMc" Subject: eminem and hiller > Eminem are cool, by the way. but not cool to be liked in the states ;) personally i think dre has some really good beats and eminem is the goods. (my wife listens to 'urban contemporary' radio alot - and the 'real slim shady' video on 'the box' was a hoot. of course the emotional level of the content is purely adolescent, but not everyone can be intellectual. rap is here to stay and the generational difference in perception is (IMO) often unrecognized by those who normally would consider themselves very open (myself included) i think many of the most 'in touch' of my generation (40+) are missing the rap thing altogether (which probably IS appropriate - how many of our parents' generation 'got' punk and the whole 'wave' ?) (my mother , bless her soul - really liked mi-sex's 'computer games' because she said 'it sounds like a carnival' ;) (my 10 month old likes eminem and dre - she responds distinctly to the beat and that tinky melody sound) on the german tip - der plan are still a going concern and have reissued most (if not all) of their catalof on their ata-tak label. worth a spin-by. i echo the fehlman recommendations. la-di-da-de-da - it's the one and only D.R.E. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:09:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Beatles Mono Reissues On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, giluz wrote: > Actually, the 1st CD releases of Beatles albums up till Revolver were in > mono. EMI claimed that the primitive full pan stereo used in those records > could not be transferred to the new technology. Basically, they probably > thought that yuppies would not like to hear one instrument coming out of one > speaker and another from the 2nd speaker. I heard the same claim being made > on a reissue of old Phil Spector productions. I'd heard the reasoning was less invidious. Essentially, the stereo mixes in those days were afterthoughts, not really the way the band or George Martin intended them to be heard. And I believe it was Martin who was behind the decision. Re _Yellow Submarine_-style remixes: I don't mind that they're done - it's nice to hear the instruments mixed and balanced more as they might appear today - but I would hate for those mixes to *replace* the originals. Part of the charm of old stereo recordings is precisely the stuff they used to do but don't anymore: putting all the drums or bass in one channel, etc. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::SCENE 2: ::Aunt Fritzi applies lipstick in the mirror. In the next room, Sluggo ::removes his ever-present cap and blows his nose in a red handkerchief. ::Nancy enters the room and accuses Sluggo of stealing the donuts that ::Aunt Fritzi made for her. Sluggo looks at the clock, which reads 8:54, ::and says he'd better hurry or he'll be late for his trombone lesson. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:25:24 -0400 (EDT) From: alan gray Subject: Rogers /Jean I've either fallen asleep and woken up on April 1st or they really did just play a Wycliff Jean/Kenny Rogers duet on the radio. uurgh. alan - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:38:35 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: Rogers /Jean Alan, They've just played the same song on Kiss FM. The state of English radio stations is dire. Chris. alan gray on 06/09/2000 17:25:24 To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: Rogers /Jean I've either fallen asleep and woken up on April 1st or they really did just play a Wycliff Jean/Kenny Rogers duet on the radio. uurgh. alan - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:09:48 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Rogers /Jean That sounds scary!!! At least I feel a *little* better about American radio now!! katherine '-) - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: alan gray Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 12:38 PM Subject: Re: Rogers /Jean > > > > Alan, > > They've just played the same song on Kiss FM. The state of English radio > stations is dire. > > Chris. > > > > > alan gray on 06/09/2000 17:25:24 > > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) > > Subject: Rogers /Jean > > > > > I've either fallen asleep and woken up on April 1st > or they really did just play a Wycliff Jean/Kenny Rogers duet on the radio. > uurgh. > alan > > > ----------------------------------------------- > FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:12:06 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Rogers /Jean "You picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille" "One time!" Mark PS, Is Sting on it too? << I've either fallen asleep and woken up on April 1st or they really did just play a Wycliff Jean/Kenny Rogers duet on the radio. uurgh. alan >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:21:42 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: HUGE difference in Morning Moon Mercy? Syarzhuk said >>There is a HUGE difference between "lyrics about something" and "lyrics that make you think about something"<< Can you explain what you mean a little more clearly and maybe give some examples? It seems tome to be at best a meaningless statement, or at least a gross generalisation, because lyrics about something could also make you think about that same something. They might not make you think at all, even if that was the artist's intention. They could make you think about something else. The lyricist might write lyrics about something and the singer might think he's singing about something else. For instance Bruce Gilbert wrote about an optical conclusion that you can buy shares in on 'The Morning Bell'. BCG: "It's about capitalism, and you could almost hear the rubbing of hands in The City about Perestroika. 'There's a whole new set of victims for us to exploit.'" CJN: "I thought it was about us!" Your earlier post seemed to me to suggest that 'art rock' is apolitical by nature (The Pop Group and Gang of Four certainly disprove that!) and seemed to support the amusing notion that 'politics and music should not mix.' I could be mistaken. A little more Mercy (from Garage interview) GAR: The lyrics of Mercy are phenomenal and that's from a dream isn't it? EGL: Yes, and very little changed from the dream. GAR: I think one of the key words that really sets the scene in that song is 'refugees'. I think a lot of the songs that you've written form themed sequences. The feeling of war torn desolation in Mercy kind of relates back to Reuters and Pink Flag and then later The First Letter picks up a similar thread. EGL: The other ones you mention are all texts that I've written and inevitably it goes back to private obsessions really. Perhaps I once wanted to be a war correspondent. BCG: I think it's also the leakage from what's actually happening in the world. The uncertainty of nation states. Everything's up in the air! EGL: Everything's up in the air. It's the bloodiest century that's ever been. More wars! There's been a phenomenal number since the second world war. How many are going on at the moment? These things are relevant. Dead Kennedys could certainly be described as art rock. Their HR Giger 'Penis Landscape' art poster caused some political consternation in conservative circles. My favourite Dead kennedys song is 'Moon Over Marin' Primarily for that great merry go round guitar riff. The lyrics are about life after nuclear war. They reinforce my feeling that nuclear war would be an undesirable event. The sound the bomb makes could be interesting though. GAR: Do you feel it's inevitable that us human beings will be wiped out? EGL: I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime, but who knows? What happened to the dinosaurs? And they were around for an awful long time! GAR: Maybe by then we'll have changed into something else. BCG: "Give me the button!" is what I say! EGL: As Joseph Beuys said, "The greatest thing in the world is the atom bomb. This is he greatest piece of work! Give everybody one! I want one in my bathroom! Do not be frightened of this thing be frightened of the man who has it!" Who are the fuckers with the buttons? There are some pretty dodgy characters out there. GAR: Crazy bastards who have to spend their whole life pursuing that goal. EGL: Power. GAR: To spend their lives chasing power they must be insane. EGL: It tends to go towards that. And that's exactly what Joseph Beuys was saying: change yourself. The pages are full again! An Ex Knife Blunterer ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Silber Subject: The (semi-) triumphant return of Matmos for any on the list who saw the amazing Matmos open for Wire at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco this past May, Drew and Matt will be appearing again. I don't know the order of things, but just going by the group names, it should be a fun evening. Sun, Sep 10 9 : 00 pm $7 night show € Free Makeovers! NUT-N-HONEY -HAUS DE SNAUS & TIGER BEAT 6 Tigerbomb 2000 Lesser DJ Joshua Kit Clayton Kid 606 & the Fluff Boys MC's Martin & Drew from Matmos with special Folk singers Blevin Blectum & Kevin Blechdon =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- <> sagt Joe. <>, sagt ich. <> malachimulligan@excite.com _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:52:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Silber Subject: The (semi-) triumphant return of Matmos for any on the list who saw the amazing Matmos open for Wire at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco this past May, Drew and Matt will be appearing again. The show is at the Bottom of the Hill (1233 17th Street at Texas Ave.). I don't know the order of things, but just going by the group names, it should be a fun evening. Sun, Sep 10 9 : 00 pm $7 night show € Free Makeovers! NUT-N-HONEY -HAUS DE SNAUS & TIGER BEAT 6 Tigerbomb 2000 Lesser DJ Joshua Kit Clayton Kid 606 & the Fluff Boys MC's Martin & Drew from Matmos with special Folk singers Blevin Blectum & Kevin Blechdon =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- <> sagt Joe. <>, sagt ich. <> malachimulligan@excite.com _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 00:26:12 +0100 From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: Re: from a flaming pie > > > Like, when are we going to get Beatles albums reissued in their original > > mono state on CD? Says here in the paper that EMI or somebody will be > > rereleasing all the Number 1 Beatles songs on CD soon. A repackaging > > effort. They'll be remastered, but not remixed, like the Yellow Submarine > > project. So, who cares? I'd rather hear Sgt Peppers or Revolver in > > original mono state (like the rerelease of Pink Floyd's "Piper at the Gates > > of Dawn" not too long ago). I'd like the Beatles in 'proper' stereo rather than the horrible mixes they did with the drums in one ear and vocals in another. Headphones on? Ouch! Plus when I was a kid I used to listen to their stereo tapes on my little mono tape recorder, and sometimes you'd get just one stereo channel through the speaker seemingly at random so instruments would dissapear or you'd just hear backing vocals and no lead....I didn't realise High Speed Dubbing meant exactly that! As a child of the 80s I'm not a purist about stereo. I love Pet Sounds in Stereo for example....the mono mix was dire anyway. I listen through headphones a lot and I was a bit dissapointed with "Piper..." (which all UK students are issued with along with the Bob Marley spliff poster and VHS copy of Withnail & I) cos to my 20 something ears Mono sounds echoey and flat. Anyway think yourselves lucky Beatlefans....us Brian Wilson fanatics have only just got the last 10 or so BB's albums on CD this month! Good mixes though. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:30:09 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: from a flaming pie The tiny wire (too thin to be easily spliced together, I found out) on the right speaker in my car broke some years ago (for that matter, the tapedeck went out 10 years ago this month -- it fast-forwards nicely, but that's it), & it's utterly *remarkable* what the Stones' Satisfaction sounds like without that immortal guitar riff. The first couple of times I heard it, I thought someone had dug some sort of really primitive demo out of a closet somewhere. Dan > > Like, when are we going to get Beatles albums reissued in their original > > mono state on CD? Says here in the paper that EMI or somebody will be > > rereleasing all the Number 1 Beatles songs on CD soon. A repackaging > > effort. They'll be remastered, but not remixed, like the Yellow Submarine > > project. So, who cares? I'd rather hear Sgt Peppers or Revolver in > > original mono state (like the rerelease of Pink Floyd's "Piper at the Gates > > of Dawn" not too long ago). I'd like the Beatles in 'proper' stereo rather than the horrible mixes they did with the drums in one ear and vocals in another. Headphones on? Ouch! Plus when I was a kid I used to listen to their stereo tapes on my little mono tape recorder, and sometimes you'd get just one stereo channel through the speaker seemingly at random so instruments would dissapear or you'd just hear backing vocals and no lead....I didn't realise High Speed Dubbing meant exactly that! As a child of the 80s I'm not a purist about stereo. I love Pet Sounds in Stereo for example....the mono mix was dire anyway. I listen through headphones a lot and I was a bit dissapointed with "Piper..." (which all UK students are issued with along with the Bob Marley spliff poster and VHS copy of Withnail & I) cos to my 20 something ears Mono sounds echoey and flat. Anyway think yourselves lucky Beatlefans....us Brian Wilson fanatics have only just got the last 10 or so BB's albums on CD this month! Good mixes though. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:43:05 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: from a flaming pie I always enjoyed the stereo mix of The Gift by the VU. A mad psychedelic jam in one channel and John Cale reading a twisted bedtime story in the other....you choose! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:59:58 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: eminem and youth In a message dated 9/6/0 9:50:42 AM, dmack2002@yahoo.com writes: >of course the emotional level of the content is purely adolescent, but >not > >everyone can be intellectual. so adolescents are supposed to be homophobic wife beaters? >(my 10 month old likes eminem and dre - she responds distinctly to the >beat > >and that tinky melody sound) buy her a drum machine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:30:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Eminem In response to Giluz's question, here are some items re Eminem: Let's see, where to start... He's been arrested twice for pulling guns on people, once pistol-whipping a guy. One song lyric features him raping and killing his mother - and unlike Ice T's number from a few years back, it's not clearly a character, and there's no political point being made (in the Ice T song, the character kills his mother for raising him to be a racist). Another features the murder of his (soon-to-be ex- what a surprise...) wife, Kim (that's the song title) and child. Not to mention nearly every line of every song indulging in rampant violence, misogyny, and homophobia. The lyrics are so over the top that one might suspect the whole thing's a big joke - except that the interviews, and the pistol-whipping, suggest that however exaggerated, the lyrics portray a large part of the man. Okay, so I'm only confirming Giluz's point: that a lot of entertainers turn out to be unpleasant people. But I guess I'd draw a line between "unpleasant" and "attempted murderer." Pathetic thing is, all of this will just sell more records. Someone else commented that older folks (30+, I think was the age) just don't "get" rap. That's not it - I've got a whole bunch of Public Enemy records, among others (I'm 38) - but both lyrically and musically, there's just a whole lot more going on there than on most of the current commercial rap crowd's records. But as they say, "it's all about the Benjamins." And as Patti Smith said: "but not mine." (URL for Eminem lyrics: http://www.OHHLA.com/YFA_eminem.html) - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::Any noise that is unrelenting eventually becomes music:: __Paula Carino__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 00:35:20 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: from a flaming pie Makes me wonder which one I'd hear if I were somehow able to play it on my car stereo ... which obviously I might as well resign myself to calling a car mono. Dan >I always enjoyed the stereo mix of The Gift by the VU. A mad psychedelic jam >in one channel and John Cale reading a twisted bedtime story in the >other....you choose! > >Mark > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #273 *******************************