From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #259 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, August 23 2000 Volume 03 : Number 259 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Fall guitarists [Anthony Clough ] Re: Fall guitarists [MarkBursa@aol.com] Jobbo [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Craigness [MarkBursa@aol.com] Way Off Topic - Sorry [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: Craigness [John Roberts ] shaking hands with the Muses ["dMc" ] Re: Craigness [MarkBursa@aol.com] Fw: Granada TV Punk Video ["rabwin" ] Fw: Craigness ["rabwin" ] Re: Dirty Womble Scarecrow Brawl ["rabwin" ] Pinkflag.com [Jason Borchers ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:47:34 +0100 () From: Anthony Clough Subject: Re: Fall guitarists Who was the bloke who got thrown out for fighting ? He was also in the Passage and, the night I saw them, true to form, he invited a heckler to "come up here and say that". He did and an onstage punch-up ensued. Tony. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 07:35:27 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Fall guitarists Tony, << Who was the bloke who got thrown out for fighting ? He was also in the Passage and, the night I saw them, true to form, he invited a heckler to "come up here and say that". He did and an onstage punch-up ensued. >> Tony Friel. He was the original Fall bassist and played bass and guitar on the early Passage stuff (the first 2 EPs). His replacement was called Andrew Wilson (looked a bit like Phil Oakey) and was just as psychotic. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 07:33:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Jobbo Hi Mark, << Anyone who has a copy of the Crepuscule compilation tape "From Brussels With Love" can relive those heady days when Jobbo was shaking hands with the Muses. "Oh Armory Sheow...Oh Armory Sheow." >> That's what I was alluding to... I actually have a vinyl copy of that comp - and there's more Jobbo on another Crepuscule album called 'Some of the interesting things you'll see on a long distance flight'. Hilarious really, especially given his serious TV presenter image of today..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 07:41:34 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Craigness Giluz, << OK - I'm not that familiar with Fall line-ups (I gotta keep some brainspace for other things), so I didn't know Craig was the only guitarist in Perverted By Language. OK, you certainly made your point. I was wrong about him. PBL is my favourite early Fall LP. I do like Brix, though. I think the Fall peaked when she was with them, but we've been through all that before. >> Nothing divides Fall fans more than Mrs E Smith. A lot of people thought she pepped them up - for me she went too far. That's not to say the records went off straight away - This Nation's Saving Grace is a brilliant album. But I really liked the big, droning, dour stuff they were doing in 83 - Garden, Words of Expectation, Tempo House etc. Pereverted by Language was pretty heavily slagged at the time, but for me it gets better and better. Also it's just about the only Fall album to get a sympathetic CD reissue. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:56:38 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Way Off Topic - Sorry I would seriously recommend the CD by A Silver Mt. Zion - He Has Left Us . . . It's very similar to Low or Sigur Ros lots of bass and violins, a little vocals. The band consists of members of Godspeed You Black Emperor! (Anyone know much about these?). Chris. The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 14:01:41 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: Craigness > Hanley and Scanlon joined for Dragnet Neither are on Witch Trials, on which > Martin Bramah plays guitar and bass. Lard joined about that time as bassist, > then switched to guitar. Lard is down as bass player on the album sleeve. > > >> Secondly, I've seen a few Fall gigs at the time when they were just MES, > Scanlon, Hanley and Woltenscroft, and Scanlon was the weakest link - in some > gigs he'd be great but in others I just wished some REAL guitar player would > come on stage and replace him.<< Yes - a bit one dimensional. IMO they tried to compensate for this by playing at ludicrous volume and thus distorting everything into a dirge. Problem overcome when Dave Bush added keyboards. > >>I know that he's been in the Fall for ages, but most of the time he had > other guitarists to back him up.<< > > Bollocks. After Lard's departure he was the only guitarist (the Perverted by > Language line-up - 82-84). Then came Brix - who I couldn't stand...rotten > third-rate US punk-pop....then Bramah rejoined for an album and after that it > was Craig all the way, till recent shenanigins.... Wrong. Paul Hanely played guitar also on Perverted. Fall line up augmented by fiddlers, keyboards (see above), and Karl Burns switching from drums to guitars (a al Paul Hanley). > > >> I could understand your view if you said the same about Hanley - now, > here's someone who really helped to shape and define the Fall sound. >> > > I think they're equally vital. Love 'em both. Liten to stuff like "Wings" or > "Hexen Strife-Knot" or "Garden" or "Draygo's Guilt". All ace Craig-riffs that > totally define the songs. I've seen the Fall well over 20 times (since 1979) > and I guarantee they were at their best when Craig and Steve were both > cookin'. > Agree. Tho even better with the boy lard in tow. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:41:42 -0500 From: "dMc" Subject: shaking hands with the Muses > Anyone who has a copy of the Crepuscule compilation tape "From Brussels With > Love" can relive those heady days when Jobbo was shaking hands with the Muses. > "Oh Armory Sheow...Oh Armory Sheow." Duras - dooooraaah _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:23:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Craigness John, << Lard is down as bass player on the album sleeve. >> Yes he is. I got mixed up with the first Peel session, which is Bramah on gtr/bass >>Yes - a bit one dimensional. IMO they tried to compensate for this by playing at ludicrous volume and thus distorting everything into a dirge. Problem overcome when Dave Bush added keyboards.<< Didn't make much difference. I saw the Fall in about 93 (in Detroit, oddly) with this line up and it was very loud and dense, and seriously lacking in tunes. >>Wrong. Paul Hanely played guitar also on Perverted. Fall line up augmented by fiddlers, keyboards (see above), and Karl Burns switching from drums to guitars (a al Paul Hanley)<< well....sort of. Paul H wan't a guitarist really and his contribution is pretty minimal. Never saw him play guitar live....maybe he made some scratchy noises theat MES liked.....Karl Burns mainly added extra bass (when the Fall weren't operating witrh 2 drummers, which they did much of the time from 81-84) A lot of the PBL stuff (eg Garden, I feel Voxish) originally had Lard playing keyboards and was redone with extra bits added (or not). >>Tho even better with the boy lard in tow.<< I thought the band was faultless up to PBL.....after that the quality becomes more erratic... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:29:32 +0100 From: "rabwin" Subject: Fw: Granada TV Punk Video - ----- Original Message ----- From: rabwin To: giluz ; IdealCopy Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Granada TV Punk Video > > > > If anyone remembers, a few weeks ago I mentioned that I once taped a > > collection of old Granada TV punk gigs filmed in manchester in 1976-1977. > I > > finally found the tape and watched about half of it (I don't think it was > > more than 1 hour long to begin with). So - we had the Pistols, Buzzcocks, > > Siouxsie, the Clash and a few more acts which I didn't recognise. > > > > What struck me was that the music and the performances themselves look and > > sound much more innocent than any average highschool band of today that > > respects itself. The only performance that looked a bit threatening was > > Strummer and the lads with Capital Radio. > > > > giluz > > ////// you know wire appeared on "so it goes" (where all that stuff came > from) , but they missed the cut for the "best of" show. they did "reuters". > i love the innocence of those clips ; remember nobody was there to tell you > what to where and you had to make it up yourself........ p > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:21:27 +0100 From: "rabwin" Subject: Fw: Craigness - ----- Original Message ----- From: rabwin To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Craigness > > > > > Hanley and Scanlon joined for Dragnet Neither are on Witch Trials, on > which > > Martin Bramah plays guitar and bass. Lard joined about that time as > bassist, > > then switched to guitar. > > /////// i thought lard was the bassist on witch trials , simple as that. > sadly i never saw that line-up , reckon i saw all the birmingham dates from > about "this nations...." to "extricate". the bramah/scanlon line-up was fab > to be sure. i also saw a much later gig (95?) when brix was back again , > surprisingly good. never minded brix so much , i thought she added a new > dimension when she joined up.p > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:22:37 +0100 From: "rabwin" Subject: Re: Dirty Womble Scarecrow Brawl > > > New songs played last weekend were passable but not a > > patch on anything old, not even up to 'You Know You > > Can't Help It' standard. > > ////// you know you're not sweetening this one very much for us > graeme.......... > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 14:07:42 -0700 From: Jason Borchers Subject: Pinkflag.com Being the paranoid person I am, I'm worried about not getting the "It's All In The Brochure" CD I ordered 20 days ago. For those of you who have ordered from them, how long did it take you to get your stuff? And where's the Albini session? :) - -- Jason Borchers jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #259 *******************************