From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #258 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, August 22 2000 Volume 03 : Number 258 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Dirty Womble Scarecrow Brawl ["giluz" ] not to state the obvious, but... ["dMc" ] Craigness [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: not to state the obvious, but... [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: Craigness ["giluz" ] J [Mark Short ] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #254 [Anthony Clough Subject: RE: Dirty Womble Scarecrow Brawl > I guess people do dry up. But I thought Craig was as essential to > the classic > Fall sound as, say, Sterling Morrison was to the Velvets. A unique sound. > Scanlon was left-handed but played a guitar tuned for a > right-handed player - > so the strings were upside down. His chords were therefore unlike > anything a > normal guitarist could play. (recently I noticed that the bass > player in the > Doves plays the same way. Must be a Manchester thing....) > First of all, Craig wasn't in Witch Trials and all the singles of that era, so you could do excellent Fall music without him (I think Hanley wasn't in the line-up as well but I'm not sure). Secondly, I've seen a few Fall gigs at the time when they were just MES, Scanlon, Hanley and Woltenscroft, and Scanlon was the weakest link - in some gigs he'd be great but in others I just wished some REAL guitar player would come on stage and replace him. I know that he's been in the Fall for ages, but most of the time he had other guitarists to back him up. I could understand your view if you said the same about Hanley - now, here's someone who really helped to shape and define the Fall sound. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:45:34 -0500 From: "dMc" Subject: not to state the obvious, but... > A unique sound. > Scanlon was left-handed but played a guitar tuned for a right-handed player - > so the strings were upside down. His chords were therefore unlike anything a > normal guitarist could play. (recently I noticed that the bass player in the > Doves plays the same way. Must be a Manchester thing....) I think that was Jimi Hendrix's setup a little earlier _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:53:16 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Craigness Giluz, << First of all, Craig wasn't in Witch Trials and all the singles of that era, so you could do excellent Fall music without him (I think Hanley wasn't in the line-up as well but I'm not sure).<< Hanley and Scanlon joined for Dragnet Neither are on Witch Trials, on which Martin Bramah plays guitar and bass. Lard joined about that time as bassist, then switched to guitar. >> Secondly, I've seen a few Fall gigs at the time when they were just MES, Scanlon, Hanley and Woltenscroft, and Scanlon was the weakest link - in some gigs he'd be great but in others I just wished some REAL guitar player would come on stage and replace him.<< What, like Ted Nugent ;-) Come on! The nearest thing to a "real" guitarist the Fall has hgad was probably Bramah. Different, but equally distinctive. The Bramah/Scanlon line-up was mighty... The joy of bands like The Fall (and Wire) is that they DON'T have "real" guitarists - they have inventive musicians who stand out a mile. You can get "real" guitarists playing 12 bar blues in any provincial pub.... >>I know that he's been in the Fall for ages, but most of the time he had other guitarists to back him up.<< Bollocks. After Lard's departure he was the only guitarist (the Perverted by Language line-up - 82-84). Then came Brix - who I couldn't stand...rotten third-rate US punk-pop....then Bramah rejoined for an album and after that it was Craig all the way, till recent shenanigins.... >> I could understand your view if you said the same about Hanley - now, here's someone who really helped to shape and define the Fall sound. >> I think they're equally vital. Love 'em both. Liten to stuff like "Wings" or "Hexen Strife-Knot" or "Garden" or "Draygo's Guilt". All ace Craig-riffs that totally define the songs. I've seen the Fall well over 20 times (since 1979) and I guarantee they were at their best when Craig and Steve were both cookin'. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:05:05 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: not to state the obvious, but... David, << I think that was Jimi Hendrix's setup a little earlier >> No, Hendrix used a left-handed guitar, but correctly strung for a lefty. So the thick strings were nearest his head. Tunings were a bit weird though. Scanlon effectively plays a guitar strung for a right-hander, upside down. So the tunings are even odder, and the strings are in the reverse order. That's why I can't work out the riff to 'Wings'. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:40:42 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Craigness > What, like Ted Nugent ;-) Come on! The nearest thing to a "real" > guitarist > the Fall has hgad was probably Bramah. Different, but equally > distinctive. > The Bramah/Scanlon line-up was mighty... The joy of bands like > The Fall (and > Wire) is that they DON'T have "real" guitarists - they have inventive > musicians who stand out a mile. You can get "real" guitarists > playing 12 bar > blues in any provincial pub.... No, I wasn't looking for that kind of ordinary real guitarist. I was looking for a real Fall guitarist - OK? > Bollocks. After Lard's departure he was the only guitarist (the > Perverted by > Language line-up - 82-84). Then came Brix - who I couldn't stand...rotten > third-rate US punk-pop....then Bramah rejoined for an album and > after that it > was Craig all the way, till recent shenanigins.... > OK - I'm not that familiar with Fall line-ups (I gotta keep some brainspace for other things), so I didn't know Craig was the only guitarist in Perverted By Language. OK, you certainly made your point. I was wrong about him. PBL is my favourite early Fall LP. I do like Brix, though. I think the Fall peaked when she was with them, but we've been through all that before. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:57:23 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: J MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > Well, I saw Adamson with the Bad Seeds (and the Birthday Party, standing in > when Tracy Pew was in the slammer) and McGeogh with the Banshees. You've got > one on me with the Armoury Show though! Did Jobbo read some of his poems? > Anyone who has a copy of the Crepuscule compilation tape "From Brussels With Love" can relive those heady days when Jobbo was shaking hands with the Muses. "Oh Armory Sheow...Oh Armory Sheow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:16:52 +0100 () From: Anthony Clough Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #254 On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Tony, > > << Yes - Thats right. He was a great drummer - much more versatile than what > he's mainly known for (solid rock drumming) suggests. For a while he was > in demand sitting in with various people at various times (eg Primal > Scream). Sadly > I haven't heard from him for years - I last spotted him as a cycle > courier when he sped past me nearly ten years ago although at about that > time I appeared on an album with him but we weren't in the studio at the > same time. Anyone heard of him recently ? >> > > Last time I saw him he was in the Rockingbirds... about 10 years ago. What > album were you on with him? > > Cheers, > > Mark > "Other Way Out" by neo-psychedelic band Sundial. Tony. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #258 *******************************