From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #246 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, August 10 2000 Volume 03 : Number 246 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale ["giluz" ] RE: Re[6]: velvets vh1 ["giluz" ] RE: John Cale ["giluz" ] Re: Bruce Gilbert to remix Madonna's hairdryer!!! [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[2]: toyah [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] RE: Re[2]: toyah ["giluz" ] Atom Heart ["giluz" ] Re[8]: velvets vh1 [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] RE: Re[8]: velvets vh1 ["giluz" ] Re: John Cale ["lucifersam" ] Re: velvets & John Cale [Mark Short ] RE: John Cale ["giluz" ] Re[10]: velvets vh1 [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Bruce Gilbert to remix Madonna's hairdryer!!! [Mark Short ] Re: John Cale [John Roberts ] Re Madonna remixid mullet&remixes [alan gray ] Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) ["Syarzhuk Kazach] Tainted Love ["giluz" ] Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) [MarkBursa@aol.co] RE: John Cale ["stephen graziano" ] Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) ["tube disaster" ] Re: Tainted Love ["lucifersam" ] Re: John Cale ["Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" ] Re: John Cale [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale ["Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" ] Re: John Cale [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Tainted Love [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Tainted Love ["tube disaster" ] Re: Popular Culture theorists (was Ms. ciccone) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffre] Re: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] RE: Bruce Gilbert to remix Madonna's hairdryer!!! [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeff] Re: John Cale ["Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" ] RE: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale ["giluz" ] RE: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:38:16 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale > > er...not sure. drella was about 91 or 92 I guess, so they're from > about the > same time. What has Cale done since then? I've lost track.... > > Mark A few soundtracks, a very very bad songs album called "Walking on Locusts", which, I'm ashamed to admit, reminded me of Phil Collins, an OK but not too exciting live album called "Fragments of a Rainy Season" (also available on video), soundtrack to a ballet based on the life of Nico, which had some good parts. A few more soundtracks which I hadn't heard and can't comment on. My overall feelings about Cale was that he finally got old - much more relaxed, concentrates more on his classical roots, and less interesting. Now, don't give me that 'better than Britney' slogan - we've done that already. I've also seen him live twice in that period, and I have to say that he was much better some 10 years before when he was totally pissed and/or wasted. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:39:44 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[6]: velvets vh1 > It may well be.....it's on Sunday morning. One of those god squad > programmes > that's dressed up to be a general 'magazine' programme....deeply > subversive. > Give me a good old hellfire preacher and an audience of inbreds > speaking in > tongues any day. Or thpeaking in tongueth, as Toyah would say. > > Mark What about a new cooking programme with Toyah and hubbie Fripp as the cook-hosts. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:44:36 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: John Cale > 1. It doesn't surprise me that the Velvets concert was played in Europe > and not the US ... the same reason that the reunion tour was there: the > Velvets (which is not to say Lou Reed) are far more popular in Europe than > the in the US ... which is rather sad. > During the 60's, when Cale was still in the Velvets, they thought of moving to Europe, following Antonioni's invitation to be the band playing in Blow-Up, and being totally disapointed from the US audiences and record companies. History of rockn'roll might've been completely different if they had. History of cinema too, cause eventually Antonioni used the Who for the brilliant club scene in Blow-Up. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:41:01 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Bruce Gilbert to remix Madonna's hairdryer!!! OK someone asked about the Gilbert Ovo mix 12" a long while back - yes it is v much worth hearing. One side is Ab Ovo condensed and the other is like a 'best of Bruce' for K-tel'era'd'vera and those with short spans who couldn't go the distance Inside Shivering Fruits for here they all are in about 12 mins or so? Haven't timed it actually but it really is a lovely bit of sculpture. One of my favourite records. >>>>> i've had a bash at getting this and failed totally. anyone got any idea where one might be available? p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:57:59 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: toyah i heard a rumour (unconfirmed), that ms. wilcox is the narrator of teletubbies (all we do is send acid rain and global warming - but YOU send us the teletubbies - i ain't fair) >>>>> apparently she is the voice of one of the teletubbies (no i don't know which one). possibly the artistic highlight of her sad career. now i know we have some closet king crimson fans in here somewhere. what on earth was that "fripp fripp" thing she did with robert f like? i gave it a wide berth ; was it the usual toyah garbage? p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:16:02 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[2]: toyah > > now i know we have some closet king crimson fans in here > somewhere. what on earth was that "fripp fripp" thing she did > with robert f like? i gave it a wide berth ; was it the usual > toyah garbage? p > > There were at least 2 collaborations as far as I know, around 1990 I think. One was a songs album, which had a few good songs - Fripp was playing guitar and even brought in his League of Crafty Guitarists for a song or two. The 2nd one was probably Toyah's 1st pre-teletubbies project - Fripp doing frippetronics on one side and Crafty Guitarists on the other, accompanying Toyah reading a story. The story was quite good, actually. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:29:52 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Atom Heart Who sent this Atom Heart mp3? It's really good. Do you any more info on that? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:28:11 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[8]: velvets vh1 > It may well be.....it's on Sunday morning. One of those god squad > programmes > that's dressed up to be a general 'magazine' programme....deeply > subversive. > Give me a good old hellfire preacher and an audience of inbreds > speaking in > tongues any day. Or thpeaking in tongueth, as Toyah would say. > > Mark What about a new cooking programme with Toyah and hubbie Fripp as the cook-hosts. giluz >>>>> i can picture the scene. fripp on guitar , the naked chef on bass , gary rhodes on drums , toyah wailing away as fripp plays some splendid world-music flavoured jazz-tinged progressive rock. just as you fear things could get no worse out springs aynsley harriot to contribute some heavy-duty rapping to the mix. don't tell channel 5 , it'd fit in pretty well with their programming.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:38:55 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[8]: velvets vh1 > What about a new cooking programme with Toyah and hubbie Fripp as > the cook-hosts. > giluz > >>>>> i can picture the scene. fripp on guitar , the naked chef > on bass , gary rhodes on drums , toyah wailing away as fripp > plays some splendid world-music flavoured jazz-tinged progressive > rock. just as you fear things could get no worse out springs > aynsley harriot to contribute some heavy-duty rapping to the mix. > don't tell channel 5 , it'd fit in pretty well with their programming.p > And you didn't even describe the cooking yet! giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:49:02 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: John Cale Wasn't that actually the Yardbirds???????? cause eventually Antonioni used the Who for the > brilliant club scene in Blow-Up. > > giluz > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:35:12 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: velvets & John Cale giluz wrote: > > > > > er...not sure. drella was about 91 or 92 I guess, so they're from > > about the > > same time. What has Cale done since then? I've lost track.... > > > > Mark > > A few soundtracks, a very very bad songs album called "Walking on Locusts", > which, I'm ashamed to admit, reminded me of Phil Collins, an OK but not too > exciting live album called "Fragments of a Rainy Season" (also available on > video), soundtrack to a ballet based on the life of Nico, which had some > good parts. A few more soundtracks which I hadn't heard and can't comment > on. My overall feelings about Cale was that he finally got old - much more > relaxed, concentrates more on his classical roots, and less interesting. I've got a soft spot for WoL, as it's the first time that Herefordshire (my home turf) gets mentioned in a pop tune. Cale did a collaboration around 1994 with some bloke called Bob (the surname escapes me, but it was German sounding), which had a lot of spoken interludes by Bob. I've never played it all the way through - it is so limp. > > Now, don't give me that 'better than Britney' slogan - we've done that > already. I've also seen him live twice in that period, and I have to say > that he was much better some 10 years before when he was totally pissed > and/or wasted. I saw Cale last year, and the set was almost the same as FoaRS. A bit disappointing. > > giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:47:50 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: John Cale > > > Wasn't that actually the Yardbirds???????? > > > cause eventually Antonioni used the Who for the > > brilliant club scene in Blow-Up. > > > > giluz > > > Could be - I just remember that it was a British 60's band I never really liked, and they both fit the description. Anyway, it's still a far cry from the Velvets. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:42:42 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[10]: velvets vh1 > What about a new cooking programme with Toyah and hubbie Fripp as > the cook-hosts. > giluz > >>>>> i can picture the scene. fripp on guitar , the naked chef > on bass , gary rhodes on drums , toyah wailing away as fripp > plays some splendid world-music flavoured jazz-tinged progressive > rock. just as you fear things could get no worse out springs > aynsley harriot to contribute some heavy-duty rapping to the mix. > don't tell channel 5 , it'd fit in pretty well with their programming.p > And you didn't even describe the cooking yet! giluz >>>>> i think that lot would put you right of your food , toyah has always had that effect on me.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:47:57 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: Bruce Gilbert to remix Madonna's hairdryer!!! Graeme Rowland wrote: > > 2. The GilbertPossStenger CD on WMO is also great, > even though the recording > doesn't really capture the utter density of their live > sound... I think Susan > Stenger's bass is maybe a little too low in the mix > perhaps. Three guitars > searching for angular noise ambulances that turn into > rockets blast the sky > screaming... the drone hones on... the night in > question at Manchester Hacienda (recently squatted for > impromptu parties since it was closed down) was sadly > underattended but those present got some wax melted > from their ears. Gilbert sliding up and down on the > spot hot and ambitious, Stenger rocking slow and Poss > grinning. For a dissenting view on GilbertPossStenger see this month's Wire magazine, where Bruce's guitar stylings are said to have "all the fire and passion of a traffic warden." (I guess the reviewer is unfamiliar with "Lovely Rita".) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:21:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Bruce Gilbert to remix Madonna's hairdryer!!! In a message dated 08/09/00 8:21:29AM, you write: << Madonna with a mallet! >> Even a Mullet? Or Timmy Mallet?? This gets funnier.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:24:20 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: John Cale Certainly was the Yardbrids - the rarely seen Beck and Page version too, playing Train kept a Rolling. Mark >>Wasn't that actually the Yardbirds???????? cause eventually Antonioni used the Who for the > brilliant club scene in Blow-Up. > > giluz<< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:27:53 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[8]: velvets vh1 Paul, << What about a new cooking programme with Toyah and hubbie Fripp as the cook-hosts. giluz >>>>> i can picture the scene. fripp on guitar , the naked chef on bass , gary rhodes on drums , toyah wailing away as fripp plays some splendid world-music flavoured jazz-tinged progressive rock. just as you fear things could get no worse out springs aynsley harriot to contribute some heavy-duty rapping to the mix. don't tell channel 5 , it'd fit in pretty well with their programming.p >> And then on jumps kevin the moustachioed twat (with the London Community Gospel choir), and starts testifying....Aaaaaaaaah feel gooood!!!... before lapsing into a duet of Kumbayah with Toyah..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 05:07:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Malka project > From: Katherine Pouliot > OK, how many of you have contributed to > Malka's project???? (yeah thatwas > brought up a few weeks ago, I know.) > > I haven't a clue what to do, and was just > curious how it's going for the > rest of us here... I've sent an item. If you aren't sure what to do, just go with your gut feeling :-) Craig Wireviews. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:09:01 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: John Cale > 1. It doesn't surprise me that the Velvets concert was played in Europe > and not the US ... the same reason that the reunion tour was there: the > Velvets (which is not to say Lou Reed) are far more popular in Europe than > the in the US ... which is rather sad. From reading Victor Bokris's book on Lou Reed it seems as though the Velvets were indeed going to do a large US tour but Reed had a tantrum and to spite the other members wouldn't tour. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:37:20 -0400 (EDT) From: alan gray Subject: Re Madonna remixid mullet&remixes >>and only Christian Marclay's jump cuts >>really come close in terms of quality, although the >>whole compilation is blasted fine (also has early >>Philip Jeck, Hairballs era Stock, Hausen and Walkman The only Stock, Hausen and Walkman that I have got is Reflections in a plastic glass, described as a remix of three point scrabble by Andrew Sharpeley and Matt wand on the High Llamas Lollo Rosso CD. Any further info' recommendations of SHW worth investigating, what to get,gratefully recieved. Alan No more off topic stuff from me, Ive replied to Ray off list with my views of his views. - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:26:56 EDT From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) >Apparently a lot of the people who saw it didn't realize who Marc >Almond was, or what the significance of having him appear in the >video was. I'm pretty sure 90% of the people who were crazy about >the Soft Cell version of "Tainted Love" wouldn't know who he is if he hit >them over the head. Can you elaborate for those who don't know the whole story? All I know is that MA was in Soft Cell, that he recorded the [first?] version of "TL" and that he has a damn good voice. I have one of his albums (with "A lover spurned", "Toreador in the rain") and I like it a lot, though I never had the urge to get his whole discography (unlike Wire :) What is the significance of his appearance in the video? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://belmusic.hypermart.net ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:43:05 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Tainted Love > All I know is that MA was in Soft Cell, that he recorded the [first?] > version of "TL" and that he has a damn good voice. Soft Cell's version was a cover to a (I think) 50's song. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:48:09 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) Syarzhuk, The original is an old soul number by Gloria Jones << All I know is that MA was in Soft Cell, that he recorded the [first?] version of "TL" >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 12:35:25 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: RE: John Cale History of cinema too, cause eventually Antonioni used the Who for the >brilliant club scene in Blow-Up. > >giluz > Um...., giluz, actually it was the Yardbirds playing "Stroll On" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:11:36 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) Yep. Came out around '64 -- not completely dissimilar from Soft Cell's version, actually. Written, I believe, by Ed Cobb, who also wrote a number of '60s garage-punk standards, such as Dirty Water. Gloria Jones eventually became, of course, Marc Bolan's paramour & was driving the car when he was killed. Dan >Syarzhuk, > >The original is an old soul number by Gloria Jones > ><< All I know is that MA was in Soft Cell, that he recorded the [first?] > version of "TL" >> > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:45:52 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Tainted Love Gloria Jones ( Mrs Marc Bolan) did the original of TL.. It was a northern soul classic over here in England! > > All I know is that MA was in Soft Cell, that he recorded the [first?] > > version of "TL" and that he has a damn good voice. > > Soft Cell's version was a cover to a (I think) 50's song. > giluz > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:13:34 -0400 From: "Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" Subject: Re: John Cale And the band at the time included 1 or 2 future members of Cheap Trick. Lee > Certainly was the Yardbrids - the rarely seen Beck and Page version too, > playing Train kept a Rolling. > > Mark > > >>Wasn't that actually the Yardbirds???????? > > cause eventually Antonioni used the Who for the > > brilliant club scene in Blow-Up. > > > > giluz<< > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:43:26 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: John Cale >>>>cause eventually Antonioni used the Who for the >>>>brilliant club scene in Blow-Up. >>>Wasn't that actually the Yardbirds???????? >> Certainly was the Yardbrids - the rarely seen Beck and Page >> version too, playing Train kept a Rolling. >And the band at the time included 1 or 2 future members of Cheap Trick. Umm - are you sure about that? (^_^) At that time (1965), the band should have been: Keith Relf (vocals), Chris Dreja (bass), Jim McCarty (drums), Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page (guitars). Paul Samwell-Smith had just left, necessitating Chris's switch to bass and opening the slot for Jimmy to enter the band. No Cheap Trick members that I can see. Definitely the Yardbirds in the film. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:06:21 -0400 From: "Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" Subject: Re: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale > > > > er...not sure. drella was about 91 or 92 I guess, so they're from > > about the > > same time. What has Cale done since then? I've lost track.... > > > > Mark > > A few soundtracks, a very very bad songs album called "Walking on Locusts", > which, I'm ashamed to admit, reminded me of Phil Collins, an OK but not too > exciting live album called "Fragments of a Rainy Season" (also available on > video), soundtrack to a ballet based on the life of Nico, which had some > good parts. A few more soundtracks which I hadn't heard and can't comment > on. My overall feelings about Cale was that he finally got old - much more > relaxed, concentrates more on his classical roots, and less interesting. I think that "Fragments" is very good; it is clearly different from his earlier stuff, but contains extremely good versions of his older songs. I think his voice is much better now than when he was younger, and in fact I find some of the original, "classic" versions of the songs on "Fragments" to be somewhat awkward-sounding. He also had the music for the Andy Warhol films "Eat" and "Kiss", which I thought was quite good. These are really less like soundtracks and more like the Nico Ballet, as the Warhol films they go with are pretty abstract, in some sense like motion picture wallpaper. This allows the music more freedom to be interesting on its own, as opposed to being dependent on the visuals in the way it might be in a narrative movie. Someone mentioned the album he did with Bob Neuwirth, and called it "lame". I agree, the weird "stage play" aspect doesn't work that well, I think. There are a few good Cale songs on there, though. I'm not that into the Bob Neuwirth stuff. "Locusts", I would agree, is kind of lame. > Now, don't give me that 'better than Britney' slogan - we've done that > already. I've also seen him live twice in that period, and I have to say > that he was much better some 10 years before when he was totally pissed > and/or wasted. Didn't see him 10 years ago, unfortunately. Liked his recent concerts, though. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:31:58 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: John Cale Paul, 100% correct. If you haven't seen it, it's a great cameo, with guitar trashing etc! mark << Umm - are you sure about that? (^_^) At that time (1965), the band should have been: Keith Relf (vocals), Chris Dreja (bass), Jim McCarty (drums), Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page (guitars). Paul Samwell-Smith had just left, necessitating Chris's switch to bass and opening the slot for Jimmy to enter the band. No Cheap Trick members that I can see. Definitely the Yardbirds in the film. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:36:06 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: John Cale John, << From reading Victor Bokris's book on Lou Reed it seems as though the Velvets were indeed going to do a large US tour but Reed had a tantrum and to spite the other members wouldn't tour. >> I think an album was also on the cards - but Lou demanded a far greater share of any royalties etc and the others wouldn't have it. Even as far as 'Lou Reed & the Velvet Underground' billing. So the VU revival crumbled. Too much Charlie (so no change there then). I was not that upset - the one new song that was played live was a bit lame. I guess 'Drella' was as near as we got to a new Velvets album..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 23:07:30 +0100 From: "rabwin" Subject: Re: Tainted Love . > > Soft Cell's version was a cover to a (I think) 50's song. > giluz >>>>> gloria jones must have done it in the early 70's ; she's not that old. following her bit of bother with a mini and a tree she apparently fled to the usa in fear of the law here , and laid low for a long time. which is why all those endless crappy bolan reissues keep coming out ; nobody is around to control it all so people take advantage. roland bolan's career never took off really , did it. loved his dad though.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:11:29 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: John Cale George, 'Stroll on' and 'Train kept a Rollin' are the same song. I have no idea why they changed the title. To claim it as an original perhaps? To avoid paying royalties from the film and soundtrack? The version on the first Yardbirds LP is called Train Kept a Rollin'. I'm with you on Zabriskie point! Mark << The song was "Stroll On." I'm a big Antonioni fan ... not to mention the Yardbirds. Ever seen "Zabriski Point?" Mind-blowing, man! >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:18:55 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Tainted Love Paul, << >> gloria jones must have done it in the early 70's ; she's not that old.<< Pretty sure it was late 60s.... >> following her bit of bother with a mini and a tree she apparently fled to the usa in fear of the law here , and laid low for a long time. which is why all those endless crappy bolan reissues keep coming out ; nobody is around to control it all so people take advantage.<< It's all down to that slobby-looking bloke who runs the fan club isn't it? Shoddy compilation after shoddy compilation. Yeuch! See also Jimi Hendrix, The Who, The Stones' '60s stuff etc. >> roland bolan's career never took off really , did it. loved his dad though.p >> First record I ever bought with my own money was 'Get it on' in 1971.... (I did get some Beatles records for Xmas once when I was very little). Seeing T Rex on TOTP for the first time (age 10) was one of those unforgettable moments for me.... Wonder what he'd have done if he'd lived? Jamming with Placebo? Cooking programmes? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 20:56:13 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Tainted Love From the liner notes for Soul Shots, vol. 3, on Rhino -- "Jones had recorded the song way back in 1964 on the Los Angeles-based Champion label and it never even charted. Jones, who hailed from Cincinnati, seemed to specialize in soul songs whose focus was stomping beats that drive lads in the northern counties of England wild. With 'Tainted Love' and 'Heartbeat,' this seductress built her career in the '70s as the 'Queen of Northern Soul.' " Dan >Paul, > ><< >> gloria jones must have done it in the early 70's ; she's not that old.<< > >Pretty sure it was late 60s.... > >>> following her bit of bother with a mini and a tree she apparently fled to > the usa in fear of the law here , and laid low for a long time. which is > why all those endless crappy bolan reissues keep coming out ; nobody is > around to control it all so people take advantage.<< > >It's all down to that slobby-looking bloke who runs the fan club isn't it? >Shoddy compilation after shoddy compilation. Yeuch! See also Jimi Hendrix, >The Who, The Stones' '60s stuff etc. > >>> roland bolan's career never took off really , did it. loved his dad >though.p >> > >First record I ever bought with my own money was 'Get it on' in 1971.... (I >did get some Beatles records for Xmas once when I was very little). Seeing T >Rex on TOTP for the first time (age 10) was one of those unforgettable >moments for me.... > >Wonder what he'd have done if he'd lived? Jamming with Placebo? Cooking >programmes? > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 22:12:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Popular Culture theorists (was Ms. ciccone) On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, giluz wrote: > > Quite so - especially when you consider the > > theories they're up against, such as Roger > > Scruton's absurd dismissals of popular music in > > books like "An Intelligent (sic) Person's Guide > > to Popular Culture". It's a culture war out > > there! > > > > Stephen > > Not exactly, cause this is exactly the kind of work that made lots of > popular culture studies be so apologetic. Unable to refute popular music's > simplicity in musicological terms, theorists claimed its merits lie in the > social aspect of it, i.e.: the 60's were a great time which changed the > structure of society, music was a main factor of that movement, but it was > crap cause it didn't correspond to the complex demands of western > musicology. The problem is that western musicology developed in response to, as a mode of analysis of, the western art music tradition (WAMI - what most people call "classical"). And so, of course other musics inevitably fall short, since their standards aren't those of WAMI: development, structural harmony, etc. etc. But popular music obviously quite complex, just in rather different ways. (I'm aware neither Stephen nor Giluz are saying otherwise...) I can't recall the citation, but one example is brought out in an essay Andrew Chester (?) wrote in the early '70s (?) on The Band. He brings up what he calls "intensional development" (that's not a misspelling): subtle variations within the rhythm, of tone & timbre, etc., that make all the differnce between, say, an utterly lifeless performance and one that rocks. (Try getting yr typical classical musicians to do a James Brown number right!) Then again, the whole argument's sort of weighted in advance toward the traditionalists' side: who says "complexity" is even a virtue? It can be, sure - but is it always? I don't think many people here would say so - early Wire works in part by rigorous subtraction, where nothing is left that's not utterly necessary. One could as well argue that it's much much harder to be persuasively simple: since the music has fewer elements, each element has to bear more weight. The more complex the music, the more any given moment can be slack & carried by the rest. (Muff one 32d note among 2,000, who'll notice? But if Moe Tucker misses one drumbeat?) - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::clip clop clip clop clip clop clip bang clop clip clop clip clop:: __Amish drive-by shooting__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 22:25:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze) wrote: > I think that "Fragments" is very good; it is clearly different from > his earlier stuff, but contains extremely good versions of his older > songs. I think his voice is much better now than when he was younger, > and in fact I find some of the original, "classic" versions of the > songs on "Fragments" to be somewhat awkward-sounding. Yes - but he does this annoying thing of ending approximately half the songs in a hands-flailing-on-the-piano, throat-being-shredded frenzy. Very effective once in a while - but really, he does it at least three times, and it loses all its impact the second one, while the third time just grates. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::Any noise that is unrelenting eventually becomes music:: __Paula Carino__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 22:28:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Re[6]: velvets vh1 On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > > With a bit of creativity you can overcome all of your problems: Put the > cook next to a high cliff. Tie him to all the others with a (strong) > rope, shoot him so he falls off the cliff. You don't need more than one > bullet (you don't need a gun, you can just push). > > giluz > or maybe gently persuade him to jump with a suitable kitchin implement? Addendum for American readers: can we arrange to take the old woman from the Old Navy ads and (please!) the horrible little girl in the Pepsi ads too? - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::the sea is the night asleep in the daytime:: __Robert Desnos__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 22:42:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: Bruce Gilbert to remix Madonna's hairdryer!!! On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, giluz wrote: > > Or maybe not. But wouldn't that be the ultimate in a > > 'cool' image makeover? > > Madonna with a mallet! No - that was Wendy O. Williams - you know: So much depends upon a red sledgehammer etc. etc. etc. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::"In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 03:08:08 -0400 From: "Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" Subject: Re: John Cale > >And the band at the time included 1 or 2 future members of Cheap > Trick. > Umm - are you sure about that? (^_^) At that time (1965), the band > should have been: > > Keith Relf (vocals), Chris Dreja (bass), Jim McCarty (drums), Jeff Beck > and Jimmy Page (guitars). Paul Samwell-Smith had just left, > necessitating Chris's switch to bass and opening the slot for Jimmy to > enter the band. > > No Cheap Trick members that I can see. Definitely the Yardbirds in the > film. Whoops, I stand corrected. Rick Nielsen was in the Yardbirds briefly during their later decline, but not at the time of the Blow-Up appearance. I guess I got the two things confused. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:15:20 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale > > I think that "Fragments" is very good; it is clearly different from > his earlier stuff, but contains extremely good versions of his older > songs. I think his voice is much better now than when he was younger, > and in fact I find some of the original, "classic" versions of the > songs on "Fragments" to be somewhat awkward-sounding. > The problem with Fragments was that it's a sobered version of gigs Cale did during the 80's, accompanied by none other than himself on piano & guitar. I have (or used to have) some tapes of these and they sound much dirtier, rockier and better than the cleanliness of Fragments. And even when it was good, songs like Leaving It Up to You will always sound better with a band than just with one guitar. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:32:24 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[6]: velvets & John Cale > > Cale also wrote a book recently about his Velvet Underground > years (and the > rest of his career) which received pretty good reviews. > He's been to israel about a year ago, and had a reading session where he read us some parts of the book and then answered questions (I asked him what it was like to work with Mike Thorne on Honi Soit, my favourite Cale album). The book really sounded quite good (it was written with Victor Bokris). The parts about the Velvets were really good and quite funny. It was also accompanied by a BBC documentary which I have stacked up somewhere. giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #246 *******************************