From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #238 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, August 2 2000 Volume 03 : Number 238 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Noise isn't music? / Oasis ["- hyponoise -" ] Electronic Re: black lace/Graham and Hook [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: black lace/Graham and Hook [Aaron Mandel ] Wireviews August [Wireviews ] Re: black lace/Graham and Hook ["rabwin" ] G P- O and Ian Curtis ["=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5kansson=2C_Anders?=" Subject: Re: Noise isn't music? / Oasis >Noise isn't music? Try telling that to Merzbow, Autechre, Sonic Youth, My >Bloody >Valentine, Bruce Gilbert, Labradford, Jim O'Rourke, Brian Eno, Panasonic, >Spacemen >3, Main, Lou Reed, The Velvet Underground, Faust, Neu, Can, Cabaret >Voltaire, >Throbbing Gristle, Vvm, Aphex Twin, Speedy J, Surgeon.......even the >Beatles >(see Revolution No.9). etc etc etc. for a more recent exparament in noise based music check out dead voices on air. i have 2 dvoa sound files in my iDrive if anyone wants to check them out www.idrive.com login : moocowspark passw : milk - -jason , the coconut pokemon n . p . nine inch nails . broken ep www.mp3.com/wilt [snake!:underworld.king.of.snake:fan.rmxs] www.idrive.com/kosrmx1/files/shared/ www.idrive.com/kosrmx2/files/shared/ just because a cat has her kittens in the oven doesn’t make them biscuits ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:32:04 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Bands with personnel problems Oh my god!!! And I thought I was having a bad day already. hahahaha Well, maybe the new guy doesn't have a whiney voice? Maybe they're better! katherine >>>>> you win the idealcopy 2000 "eternal optimist prize".p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:03:17 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) > Art of Noise - (? something about the Edit, with the little girl smashing > stuff on train tracks) Trainspotting alert!!!! The video was for the song "Close to the edit". > I wish I could say that I remember any good Wire videos - in my opinion the > ones I remember I don't really like. ;-( > Did you ever see the video for In Vivo? It's my favorite Wire video, and one of my favorite videos of all time. They basically take Colin, put him in a sandwich board with the lyrics to the song, and have him go out in Hyde Park (or is that Central Park?) as a street preacher, who just happens to be preaching the words to In Vivo! Real crowd reactions, too. They use an FM radio to feed him the signal so he's in sync with the cameras - the crowd has no idea. Plus, odd cameos from Graham and Bruce, not to mention Robert Gotobed. An instant video classic. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:06:39 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: black lace/Graham and Hook Re Black lace - one of them is dead and the other isn't, according to the `annoying records' top ten programme that was on a few months back. I think the one who is not dead is now in Smokie... This talk of New Order reminds of the bit in the recent interview with Wire done at the garage (it was flagged on the list, can't remember where it was now...), where Graham is said to have `bawled' `Don't compare me to Hook!' or somesuch. Duch-esss!! Anyone know if there a history to this? Perhaps Graham, or the band as a whole, just get hacked off about having their later stuff compared to New Order?. I have to admit that when I first heard Madman's Honey on the radio in 1987 I thought it was NO - I was a huge fan of theirs at the time, but find much of their output now sounds flat and dated in a way that most of Wire's dosen't. And with a heavy heart, I have declined to buy the most recent Electronic album, having found very little to admire on the previous effort. Anyone with me on any of this? Perhaps Graham's arsiness about NO comparisons stems from his inablity to pen lines of such poetry as `To buy a drink there is so much more reasonable/I think I'll go there when it gets seasonable', or `Every second counts, when I am with you/I think you are a pig, you should be in a zoo'. I don't think Curtis could've managed lines like that either. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:25:58 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Electronic Re: black lace/Graham and Hook - --0__=FiE7pGXYYNcNHnXbcrGfjxtPkxQTkxiD1TERUEsWD1vKTbA26sg4YqBF Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Ordered it from www.sisterray.co.uk yesterday for - --0__=FiE7pGXYYNcNHnXbcrGfjxtPkxQTkxiD1TERUEsWD1vKTbA26sg4YqBF Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =A36.99. I don't hold that much hope for Twisted Tenderness but a single I heard from it sounded O= K and the price swayed me a litle also. I agree, Raise The Pressure, is an extremely lightweight affair but a *nice* summer pop album (1997, I think). Chris. >>And with a heavy heart, I have declined to buy the most recent Electr= onic album, having found very little >>to admire on the previous effort. An= yone with me on any of this? >>Howard = - --0__=FiE7pGXYYNcNHnXbcrGfjxtPkxQTkxiD1TERUEsWD1vKTbA26sg4YqBF-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: black lace/Graham and Hook On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Howard Spencer wrote: > And with a heavy heart, I have declined to buy the most recent > Electronic album, having found very little to admire on the previous > effort. Anyone with me on any of this? I thought Twisted Tenderness was on a level with the first Electronic album, both being better than Raise The Pressure. It's hardly as good as Brotherhood, but that's little surprise. Do I remember correctly that the Names came up on this list? I bought the reissue of their album and sadly, "Calcutta" is by far the high point. Still, had to find out, didn't I? a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:32:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Wireviews August Hi all The August edition of Wireviews is now online, including (finally) a review of Wire's gig in Dublin, along with a few pages of great live Wire images. Craig/Wireviews. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:58:37 +0100 From: "rabwin" Subject: Re: black lace/Graham and Hook And with a heavy heart, I have > declined to buy the most recent Electronic album, having found very > little to admire on the previous effort. Anyone with me on any of this? ///// i thought the first electronic album was really underrated , half a dozen excellent tracks there. whereas the second sounded (on a couple of listens) pretty poor in comparison. the single off the 3rd one sounded OK but by then who cared? i see johnny m has finally got a band together now. after a mere 14 years. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:33:32 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5kansson=2C_Anders?=" Subject: G P- O and Ian Curtis According to Genesis P-Orridge,mentioned in the excellent Throbbing Gristle biography "Wreckers Of Civilisation" they were planning to work together! That would havew been really interesting!!! Any other collaborations that the List would have like to have seen?? Hopefully Ted Milton of Blurt will play some more with Wire.. /Anders >Paul, > ><< >>> i have several times heard peter hook claim that if they'd have >continued then joy division would have had the position U2 ended up with. not >sure i entirely see that one , but its a curious thought.<< > >It would have become increasingly difficult to play live, so I would have >imagined a lot more studi-created electronics-based stuff like Decades, The >Eternal or Atmosphere.... Can't imagine IC with a mullet, waving a flag while >strutting his stuff at Red Rocks. > >>>ruts dc looked a dreadful prospect to me. what were they like?<< > >OK actually. they didn't try to be the Ruts at least. All three of them sang >- sadly they had a sax player as well. Bit Police-like - some reggaeish >tracks. Different View (the single) was quite good, if a bit limited... > >Mark > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:35:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Re[2]: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Hanley and a couple of other ex-Fall blokes currently play as Ark (not sure > Scanlon is involved). I've heard mixed reports - apparently the singer is > annoying. The last phrase is one of the funniest things I've read on this list: I love the Fall (and have the cubic yardage of CDs and LPs to prove it), but trying to find any aspect of MES which might not generally be considered "annoying" is quite the difficult task... - --Jeff, who has no idea what the fuck Ark sound like, but still... J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::does "anal retentive" have a hyphen?:: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:38:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) Whichever Replacements video it is with nothing but a shot of a crappy speaker with an ashtray, some change, etc., rattling away on top of it; i.e., nothing happens. Brilliant. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::flag on the moon...how'd it get there?:: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:46:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: I'm in Oasis, you know, Shemp Gallagher's band! was RE: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Jonathan Land wrote: > ...and the album "Squeeze" by the Reed-less, Tucker-less, > Morisson-less, Cale-less "Velvet Underground"?!?!?! I believe it was > the Yule brothers and a couple of their lackeys. I've never even > heard this one, but I can only imagine. Has anyone actually heard > this record? They never released it in the US. Ever. Oh Christ! When I was a wee lad in high school, a friend of mine who was also into "weird music" (anything not in the top 40 counted as weird in my little midwestern suburban town) and bought everything with the VU's name on it - which included _Squeeze_. Not sure if he bought an import or what, but since I was a bit of a completist nut, I insisted he tape it for me. It's utterly inert - the kind of music that you can't remember thirty seconds after you've heard it. Obviously, I never listened to it much - but once in a while, I'll think "hey - I don't remember what that sounds like - maybe if I pretend it was released under some other name entirely I might enjoy it on its own terms"...nope. Pointless. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::Why should we value the work ethic ::when employers care so little about the pay ethic? __Barbara Ehrenreich__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:55:05 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis I haven't heard Ark, either, & I must say I got the same impression you did from that description ... but apparently the Ark singer is a wannabe rock-star heavy-metal-type singer. *shudder* Dan >On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >> Hanley and a couple of other ex-Fall blokes currently play as Ark (not sure >> Scanlon is involved). I've heard mixed reports - apparently the singer is >> annoying. > >The last phrase is one of the funniest things I've read on this list: I >love the Fall (and have the cubic yardage of CDs and LPs to prove it), but >trying to find any aspect of MES which might not generally be considered >"annoying" is quite the difficult task... > >--Jeff, who has no idea what the fuck Ark sound like, but still... > >J e f f r e y N o r m a n >The Architectural Dance Society >www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html >::does "anal retentive" have a hyphen?:: > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:58:08 -0500 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) Bastards of Young, possibly. My own fave videos would include Landscape's Norman Bates (only saw this once in the early '80s, but if memory serves it was a perfect Hitchcock hommage), Joy Division's Atmosphere (absolutely fucking *eerie*), Billy Bragg's Waiting for the Great Leap Forwards, We've Got a Fuzzbox & We're Gonna Use It's Love is the Slug, Les Rita Mitsouko's C'est Comme Ca (or something like that), The Fall's Hit the North (MES dancing! sort of). Undoubtedly I'm forgetting several. Dan >Whichever Replacements video it is with nothing but a shot of a crappy >speaker with an ashtray, some change, etc., rattling away on top of it; >i.e., nothing happens. Brilliant. > >--Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:25:10 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: NO/videos (was Re: black lace/Graham and Hook) In a message dated 8/1/00 1:13:50 PM, hspencer@oup.co.uk writes: << `Every second counts, when I am with you/I think you are a pig, you should be in a zoo' >> one of my favorite barney lyrics, really! but getting onto videos... off the cuff i'd say new order-perfect kiss (beautiful), cabaret voltaire-sensoria (the camera on a pendulum about 15 yrs before metallica), metallica-the one with the camera on a pendulum (hehe, really it is good...well marianne faithful makes it pretty cool), i love the old factory videos with everyone standing, walking, running around looking depressed or anxiety ridden-section 25, stockholm monsters, the names, acr... and at the time i sure did like those duran duran videos! how about x-hungry wolf?! that was good stuff. - -paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 23:44:52 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) If I won't be tarred and feathered, I'd like to nominate Elastica's "Connection" for its minimalism and Fat Boy Slim's "Rockefellar Skank" for it's maximalism. (i.e. best "makes you feel like your on drugs video" of the recent past) >From: "tube disaster" >To: "Ideal Copy Mailing list" >Subject: Re: Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:58:08 -0500 > >Bastards of Young, possibly. > >My own fave videos would include Landscape's Norman Bates (only saw this >once in the early '80s, but if memory serves it was a perfect Hitchcock >hommage), Joy Division's Atmosphere (absolutely fucking *eerie*), Billy >Bragg's Waiting for the Great Leap Forwards, We've Got a Fuzzbox & We're >Gonna Use It's Love is the Slug, Les Rita Mitsouko's C'est Comme Ca (or >something like that), The Fall's Hit the North (MES dancing! sort of). >Undoubtedly I'm forgetting several. > >Dan > > > >Whichever Replacements video it is with nothing but a shot of a crappy > >speaker with an ashtray, some change, etc., rattling away on top of it; > >i.e., nothing happens. Brilliant. > > > >--Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 00:13:40 EDT From: "- hyponoise -" Subject: Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) some of my favorite videos , bjork . all is love . the bjork androids emit this warmn, longing, compassionate and odly sensual vibe. it is such a loving video. underworld . cowgirl . theres dirt, words, lights, it manages to provide a sutiable median for underworlds music. great tomato visuals. nine inch nails . hurt . the video didnt even attempt to glossover the content of the song. it provides this bare, stark, emotional backdrop for one of the most powerful songs of my generation. tool . aenima . again a video where the charcters are so removed from anything you would feel conmassion for but by the end of the video through the combination of the music and visuals you find yorself rooting for this odd collection of sods. massive attack . angel . its just this feal human singing the lyrics while floating in the womb. perfectly fitting. depeche mode . enjoy the silece . i remember first seeing this as a wee youngin and it compleatly blowing my mind. skinny puppy. spazmolytic . you have this b-grade horro movie depection of herion addiction provideing this haunting images. it just burns itself into your retna. curve . fait accompli . just another video that i cant figure out why but it just blew my mind when i first saw it. - -jason , the coconut pokemon n . p . die warzau . engine www.mp3.com/wilt [snake!:underworld.king.of.snake:fan.rmxs] www.idrive.com/kosrmx1/files/shared/ www.idrive.com/kosrmx2/files/shared/ just because a cat has her kittens in the oven doesn’t make them biscuits ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:10:52 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: fave vids firstly , i must say i'm a big fan of alison conway's wire/ac marias vids , i think she's produced some fabulous clips. maybe in vivo/so & slow/one of our girls would be my choices. tragic mute never put out a compilation , i guess that moment has probably passed now. other vids? wolfgang press ; kansas fatboy slim ; praise you denim ; middle of the road jane ; its a fine day pj harvey ; 50 ft queenie/man-size elastica; connection / waking up devo ; secret agent man (+most of the other stuff) must be loads more. real shame most punk era acts did horrible cheap vids or none at all. p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:15:52 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: G P- O and Ian Curtis According to Genesis P-Orridge,mentioned in the excellent Throbbing Gristle biography "Wreckers Of Civilisation" they were planning to work together! That would havew been really interesting!!! >>>>> i read that book a couple of months ago , i thought it was interesting the other 3 TG members all said they had no recollection of any contact whatsoever between IC and GPO and treated Gen's claims of this intimate friendship with (i think the phrase was) "great cynicism". hmmmmm....... Any other collaborations that the List would have like to have seen?? >>>>>>> well i'm still looking forward to this wire/albini thing. wonder what eno would have contributed to wire?p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #238 *******************************