From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #237 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, August 1 2000 Volume 03 : Number 237 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis [timrobinson@cwcom.net] Noise isn't music? / Oasis [timrobinson@cwcom.net] Marx etc. [Stephen Harper ] Did You Know? - Do You Care? [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Marxist CD noise producers? [Alan Gray ] Re: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Did You Know? - Do You Care? [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] RE: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis ["giluz" ] Re: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Did You Know? - Do You Care? [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: Awesome Orson ["stephen graziano" ] Re: Re[2]: horrible nazi scumbags & Patriotism [MarkBursa@aol.com] I'm in Oasis, you know, Shemp Gallagher's band! was RE: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis [Jonathan Land ] COLDPLAY & Re: Re[2]: horrible nazi scumbags & Patriotism [Chris.Ray@meda] Re[2]: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Did You Know? - Do You Care? [Mark Short ] Re: Bands with personnel problems [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: COLDPLAY & Re: Re[2]: horrible nazi scumbags & Patriotis [paul.rabjoh] Re All-Fall. [Alan Gray ] Re: Re[2]: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis [MarkBursa@aol.com] Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Bands with personnel problems ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) [Chris.Ray@medas] Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) ["Katherine Pouli] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:50:46 +0100 From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis > >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:59:57 -0700 (PDT) BillyD Wrote: >Noise on a cd isn't music. Booo! You sound like someones Dad in the 1950s....Turn that racket down! You can't hear the words! :) Noise isn't music? Try telling that to Merzbow, Autechre, Sonic Youth, My Bloody Valentine, Bruce Gilbert, Labradford, Jim O'Rourke, Brian Eno, Panasonic, Spacemen 3, Main, Lou Reed, The Velvet Underground, Faust, Neu, Can, Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle, Vvm, Aphex Twin, Speedy J, Surgeon.......even the Beatles (see Revolution No.9). etc etc etc. - ---------------------------------------------- Re: Oasis >Well, he was abusive to the audience, but I'm not sure if it was a reaction to >being bottled, or whether the bottling was a reaction to the abuse. I like to >think that the crowd had a collective road-to-Damascus experience, and realised >they'd paid good money to watch a bunch of no-marks. Perhaps it was becase they had paid good money to see Oasis but instead got Liam Gallagher and four session musos.....I mean you'd be gutted if you paid to see The Who and it was just Roger Daltrey and a backing group...... Actually, I hear the Beach Boys are touring but the only original 'Boy' is Al Jardine with his kids on bass and guitar and Wilson/Phillips on backing vocals or something....yuck, and I heard something about Hermans Hermits were on tour but the only original member was the Drummer! Anyone else know any good rip off bands? Didn't the Byrds end up with no original members at all? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:52:25 +0100 From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: Noise isn't music? / Oasis > >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:59:57 -0700 (PDT) BillyD Wrote: >Noise on a cd isn't music. Booo! You sound like someones Dad in the 1950s....Turn that racket down! You can't hear the words! :) Noise isn't music? Try telling that to Merzbow, Autechre, Sonic Youth, My Bloody Valentine, Bruce Gilbert, Labradford, Jim O'Rourke, Brian Eno, Panasonic, Spacemen 3, Main, Lou Reed, The Velvet Underground, Faust, Neu, Can, Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle, Vvm, Aphex Twin, Speedy J, Surgeon.......even the Beatles (see Revolution No.9). etc etc etc. - ---------------------------------------------- Re: Oasis >Well, he was abusive to the audience, but I'm not sure if it was a reaction to >being bottled, or whether the bottling was a reaction to the abuse. I like to >think that the crowd had a collective road-to-Damascus experience, and realised >they'd paid good money to watch a bunch of no-marks. Perhaps it was becase they had paid good money to see Oasis but instead got Liam Gallagher and four session musos.....I mean you'd be gutted if you paid to see The Who and it was just Roger Daltrey and a backing group...... Actually, I hear the Beach Boys are touring but the only original 'Boy' is Al Jardine with his kids on bass and guitar and Wilson/Phillips on backing vocals or something....yuck, and I heard something about Hermans Hermits were on tour but the only original member was the Drummer! Anyone else know any good rip off bands? Didn't the Byrds end up with no original members at all? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 05:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Harper Subject: Marx etc. giluz, My last message to your address bounced, so am sending this to the list. (Sorry to all those fed up with this political thread, but the matter isn't irrelevant to Wire. Graham, at least, appears to have a broadly marxian outlook - sorry if I'm wrong, Graham - that is reflected in his songs. It wouldn't make sense, imo, to be a capitalist and to like Wire. Moreover, music is always political: Brian Eno said it, so it must be true.) First, yes, I agree with you about Marxist utopianism - guess I was being a bit flippant in the previous posting; a problem of mine. I'm not sure I can answer your question about what kind of Marxist I am in a way that would satisfy you. Personally, I've been influenced by "lit crit" Marxists like Terry Eagleton, and cultural critics like the Frankfurt School and Gramsci. I could answer your question negatively, perhaps: I don't believe that Marx's industrial proletariat (his engine of revolution) really exists in the West any longer and I certainly don't believe in teleological views of history (and am not even convinced that Marx did). I'm particularly interested in media and popular culture, and the ways in which they sideline almost all left wing issues/viewpoints. In that sense, my favorite writers today are journalists like John Pilger and Christopher Hitchens. The idea of two neo-Marxists hammering out their differences reminds me a routine I once saw Emo Phillips, a comedian, do in Glasgow. Two Seventh Day Adventists (or some such) meet up and discover that they are members of a minor Adventist subsect. As the routine goes on, Phillips and his imaginary interlocutor realise with increasing rapture that they are both part of a smaller and smaller subsect of the religion. Eventually, however, they find that they have one unbelievably trivial difference in their faiths. Phillips immediately slays his companion, screaming: "Die, heretic!". Moral - I guess that these days, I'm just glad to hear that someone else still has marxian views. I was interested by what you had to say about Israel in another posting. I hung out with a lot of Israelis a couple of years ago in Aberdeen, Scotland. They were in general great people. I was amazed, however, at how many of the young people had (imo) very right wing views. But I can understand the historical reasons why this is so. Oh, and none of them liked Wire, which I find less explicable... All the best, Stephen (29 and still angry!) - --- giluz wrote: > > As a neo-Marxist, I agree with you about > > communism (and Marxism) being based on > positive > > principles. > > Since it is quite rare to find two neo-marxists > that hold the same marxist > view, I'm quite interested as to what kind of > neo-marxist are you? > > I don't understand, however, that > > Marxism is a kind of "utopianism". Go along > to > > Highgate Cemetery and you'll hear Marx > turning in > > his grave at this characterisation of his > ideas! > > Marxism's utopianism means that in any marxist > theory there is an ideal > society which operates according to the > theory's rules. So that even though > marxist theories point out the various ways > governments and institutions > oppress people, they always suggest a utopian > alternative. > > This is contradictory to capitalist thought > which doesn't have a fixed > solution. Instead it prefers to think of itself > as progressive - change > according to needs. Capitalism states that > certain members of society must > be sacrificed so that the rest could have a > good life. This, according to > capitalism, is the only realistic solution - > the least worse choice. > > giluz > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:11:41 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Did You Know? - Do You Care? A major revolution in the music industry began quietly on this date in 1981, when the music video cable channel MTV premiered at 12:01 a.m. (ET). The first video it aired was "Video Killed the Radio Star" by the Buggles. And while music videos changed the face of the recording industry, they didn't kill radio. The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:36:41 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: Marxist CD noise producers? >> I don't believe >>that Marx's industrial proletariat (his engine of >>revolution) really exists in the West any longer >>and I certainly don't believe in teleological >>views of history (and am not even convinced that >>Marx did). This was good to read. I have friends who are marxist. One even sold the papers on saturdays but still talked about the means of production which to me no longer exist in the siezable sense. If you were coming from a particular marxist party direction and this sort of thing was the party line , I would try and point him your way. On the subject of the all in the brochure CD, I'm glad I got one and I like it, but I object to being charged the same number of pounds as the Americans are charged dollars. I think this is what wire do with T shirts probably with that CD also. In general especially in the UK CD prices are way too high, and now the recording companies are devising ways to rip us off for downloading music from the web. noise annoys!... not me, just the price of noise, but that wouldn't scan. Alan. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:02:07 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis Tim, << Actually, I hear the Beach Boys are touring but the only original 'Boy' is Al Jardine with his kids on bass and guitar and Wilson/Phillips on backing vocals or something....yuck,<< Al's kids have been in for a while - since the early 90s I think, when there was something of a recognisable group (Al/Carl/Mike/Bruce etc). I think both Milke Love and Al Jardine have Beach Boys versions on tour right now.... >> and I heard something about Hermans Hermits were on tour but the only original member was the Drummer! Anyone else know any good rip off bands?<< Members of 60s groups in the UK are interchangeable these days. Currently hauling their beer guts round the nostalgia circuit is "The Hollies featuring Carl Wayne". Wayne was the singer in the Move, of course.... >> Didn't the Byrds end up with no original members at all? >> Michael Clarke (the original drummer) toured with a pick-up band as The Byrds in the 80s. John York (Byrds bassist for 5 minutes in about 1969) was the only other "Byrd" present. McGuinn, Hillman, Crosby etc sued - and lost. The Judge basically ruled that because Clarke was offering employment to people he had the rights to use the name. the incident almost reunited the surviving Byrds - even Crosby said "any band claiming to be the Byrds but not including Roger McGuinn was not the Byrds." As for bands with no original members - try Napalm Death. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:20:50 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Did You Know? - Do You Care? A major revolution in the music industry began quietly on this date in 1981, when the music video cable channel MTV premiered at 12:01 a.m. (ET). The first video it aired was "Video Killed the Radio Star" by the Buggles. And while music videos changed the face of the recording industry, they didn't kill radio. >>>>> i still fondly remember all the yes fans at school and how they reacted when the 2 buggles guys replaced jon anderson and rick wakeman. sort of numb shock that such a catastrophe could have happened. long may such things continue.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:26:17 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis Actually, I hear the Beach Boys are touring but the only original 'Boy' is Al Jardine with his kids on bass and guitar and Wilson/Phillips on backing vocals or something....yuck, and I heard something about Hermans Hermits were on tour but the only original member was the Drummer! Anyone else know any good rip off bands? Didn't the Byrds end up with no original members at all? >>>>> god , where do you start. ELO without jeff lynne (seen 'em yet katherine?) , echo without ian mccullough , stranglers without hugh cornwell? i think there are about a dozen versions of all the black vocal groups perpetually doing the chicken in the basket circuit with maiximum one original member. and , even better , the guy from black lace is currently fronting smokie (what a combination). i see vh1 is showing some film of the fleadh this month , so maybe we get the treat of the sharkeyless undertones. set yer videos..... p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:08:41 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis What about all the Fall members in all its incarnations without Mark E Smith? giluz > > > Actually, I hear the Beach Boys are touring but the only original > 'Boy' is Al Jardine with his kids on bass and guitar and > Wilson/Phillips on backing vocals or something....yuck, and I > heard something about Hermans Hermits were on tour but the only > original member was the Drummer! Anyone else know any good rip > off bands? Didn't the Byrds end up with no original members at all? > > >>>>> god , where do you start. ELO without jeff lynne (seen 'em > yet katherine?) , echo without ian mccullough , stranglers > without hugh cornwell? i think there are about a dozen versions > of all the black vocal groups perpetually doing the chicken in > the basket circuit with maiximum one original member. and , even > better , the guy from black lace is currently fronting smokie > (what a combination). > > i see vh1 is showing some film of the fleadh this month , so > maybe we get the treat of the sharkeyless undertones. set yer > videos..... p > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:15:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis Paul, << >>>>> god , where do you start. ELO without jeff lynne (seen 'em yet katherine?) , echo without ian mccullough , stranglers without hugh cornwell? i think there are about a dozen versions of all the black vocal groups perpetually doing the chicken in the basket circuit with maiximum one original member. and , even better , the guy from black lace is currently fronting smokie (what a combination). i see vh1 is showing some film of the fleadh this month , so maybe we get the treat of the sharkeyless undertones. set yer videos..... p >> Sometimes it works the other way. The Jayhawks actually got better after Mark Olson left. Mercury Rev chucked out their singer after the first two albums and improved beyond recognition. Ever heard that La's demos album (when Lee Mavers was just the guitarist?) Dire. Damo Suzuki Vs Malcolm Mooney? Damo for me.... I often wonder what an Ian Curtis-fronted New Order would have been like.... Mark (who once saw Ruts DC) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:16:35 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Did You Know? - Do You Care? Paul, << >>>>> i still fondly remember all the yes fans at school and how they reacted when the 2 buggles guys replaced jon anderson and rick wakeman. sort of numb shock that such a catastrophe could have happened. long may such things continue.p >> Indeed. And Yes were still pants. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 11:17:40 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: RE: Awesome Orson >From: "giluz" > > > >I always hated the Swiss, guess I was wrong... > >giluz Once some friends of mine and I were standing on a Geneva street eating a slice of pizza and a juice out of a bottle (we being NYC boys and all). I finished the pizza and drink and looked around for a receptacle to place the trash in. I couldn't see one. Then I noticed that the streets were immaculate, not a trace of trash anywhere!, which for a NYC kid is quite amazing. Feeling self conscious, I couldn't do what I'd normally do, just drop it down on the street with all the other refuse, there being no refuse. So, looking around, and not seeing anyone, I carefully placed the empty bottle neatly against the gutter. For some reason, we had to move around the corner, but within five minutes, I had returned to the scene of my "crime". The bottle was gone. I was amazed. I was impressed. I was more than slightly terrorized. There was still no sign of anyone on the street other than me and my friends. What happened to the bottle? I never found out. I never forgot. I never returned to Switzerland. - Steve. G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:21:02 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: horrible nazi scumbags & Patriotism Paul, << >> there was a piece in the observer yesterday making this sort of point , how ten or twenty years ago there was so much good music , a lot of which was a reaction to the state the country was in at the time. and now we get coldplay as the leading lights on the "alternative" scene , who are a sort of nothingness personified. much like most of our politicians.p >> Couldn't agree more. I can't believe people can see anything in Coldplay, Embrace etc. Of all the Brit bands, Radiohead are about the only one getting more political at the moment....one of the new songs they did at the RFH was a pretty scathing anti-Blair number.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:20:56 -0400 From: Jonathan Land Subject: I'm in Oasis, you know, Shemp Gallagher's band! was RE: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis ...and the album "Squeeze" by the Reed-less, Tucker-less, Morisson-less, Cale-less "Velvet Underground"?!?!?! I believe it was the Yule brothers and a couple of their lackeys. I've never even heard this one, but I can only imagine. Has anyone actually heard this record? They never released it in the US. Ever. Jon >What about all the Fall members in all its incarnations without Mark E >Smith? >giluz > > > >> >> Actually, I hear the Beach Boys are touring but the only original >> 'Boy' is Al Jardine with his kids on bass and guitar and >> Wilson/Phillips on backing vocals or something....yuck, and I >> heard something about Hermans Hermits were on tour but the only >> original member was the Drummer! Anyone else know any good rip >> off bands? Didn't the Byrds end up with no original members at all? >> >> >>>>> god , where do you start. ELO without jeff lynne (seen 'em >> yet katherine?) , echo without ian mccullough , stranglers >> without hugh cornwell? i think there are about a dozen versions >> of all the black vocal groups perpetually doing the chicken in >> the basket circuit with maiximum one original member. and , even >> better , the guy from black lace is currently fronting smokie >> (what a combination). >> >> i see vh1 is showing some film of the fleadh this month , so > > maybe we get the treat of the sharkeyless undertones. set yer > > videos..... p > > > > - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://incomplete.net If it's not here, it's incomplete! Also visit the "Stick Figure Theater" section of http://backslap.com/animation.cfm to meet Slappy Guinea Pig cam available (sometimes) at http://incomplete.net/espicam.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:32:18 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Did You Know? - Do You Care? Paul, << >>>>> i still fondly remember all the yes fans at school and how they reacted when the 2 buggles guys replaced jon anderson and rick wakeman. sort of numb shock that such a catastrophe could have happened. long may such things continue.p >> Indeed. And Yes were still pants. Mark >>>>> as the saying goes , you can't polish a turd.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:31:57 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis I often wonder what an Ian Curtis-fronted New Order would have been like.... Mark (who once saw Ruts DC) >>>> i have several times heard peter hook claim that if they'd have continued then joy division would have had the position U2 ended up with. not sure i entirely see that one , but its a curious thought. ruts dc looked a dreadful prospect to me. what were they like? p (who once saw the chiefs of relief. and the armoury show) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:34:36 +0100 From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: Bands with personnel problems >>>>>> god , where do you start. ELO without jeff lynne (seen 'em yet >katherine?) Can it be any worse than ELO *with* Jeff Lynne? > , echo without ian mccullough Dreadful! Saw them in Sefton Park a few years ago and it was a sad spectacle indeed, a bit like the Jazz Oddessey sequence in Spinal Tap ("...we hope you enjoy our new direction..") That said, a couple of years ago we saw Echo with all the surviving members and it was the same band but somehow they managed to remove all trace of charisma and mystery they used to possess. New Order did a similair trick a couple of years ago too with Barney doing his 'drunk bloke at a wedding disco' act. > , the guy from black >lace is currently fronting smokie (what a combination). > Not any more he isn't! The guy from black lace died about 5 years ago! Ironically enough, before the dizzy heights of 'Agadoo', 'Superman' and 'We're 'avin a gang bang', an earlier incarnation of Black Lace were a kind of gritty, northern AOR band and were actually taken to court by Smokie for releasing a single which bore more than a passing resemblance to 'Living next door to Alice'. There we are folks, we've gone from Marxism to the Israeli political scene to the career of Smokie in the space of 24 hours! Wire? Who's that? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:34:01 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: Re: Did You Know? - Do You Care? In honour of this occasion: What's our favorite videos? I'd have to go with almost anything that Wax Trax did. KMFDM "Drug Against War," Clock DVA, Lead Into Gold "Faster Than Light." Then, there's Duran Duran's "Girls on Film"... I guess .... George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:38:57 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: RE Awesome orson/Litter bug >>Once some friends of mine and I were standing on a Geneva street eating a >>slice of pizza and a juice out of a bottle (we being NYC boys and all). I >>finished the pizza and drink and looked around for a receptacle to place the >>trash in. I couldn't see one. Then I noticed that the streets were >>immaculate, not a trace of trash anywhere!, which for a NYC kid is quite >>amazing. Feeling self conscious, I couldn't do what I'd normally do, just >>drop it down on the street with all the other refuse, there being no refuse. >> So, looking around, and not seeing anyone, I carefully placed the empty >>bottle neatly against the gutter. For some reason, we had to move around >>the corner, but within five minutes, I had returned to the scene of my >>"crime". The bottle was gone. I was amazed. I was impressed. I was more >>than slightly terrorized. There was still no sign of anyone on the street >>other than me and my friends. What happened to the bottle? I never found >>out. I never forgot. I never returned to Switzerland. - Steve. G Do you look like one of the members of Oasis? If you were spotted lleaving this bottle, then this might explain why the audience reacted to Oasis in that way. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:47:00 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: COLDPLAY & Re: Re[2]: horrible nazi scumbags & Patriotism - --0__=IIVRVs35Y8MGLvvRtgO8i5epjGUypbZvlVQlbDEni9jRqEJIC9WFV9FE Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Not my favourite person but I do like McGees's comments (taken from NME.com) Ex-CREATION RECORDS boss ALAN McGEE has issued a stinging attack on some of the artists nominated for this year's MERCURY MUSIC PRIZE, calling COLDPLAY "bedwetters' music", before claiming bands such as PRIMAL SCREAM did not get nominated because they "don't suck corporate cock". In a feature printed in today's Guardian newspaper (July 28), McGee questions why his favourite bands, including his former label signings Primal Scream, David Holmes and Supergrass have not been nominated for the award, when artists such as Coldplay have. He writes: "If the Mercury Music Prize stands for anything, it supposedly stands for innovation. So how can David Holmes and Primal Scream be left out? Holmes - --0__=IIVRVs35Y8MGLvvRtgO8i5epjGUypbZvlVQlbDEni9jRqEJIC9WFV9FE Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1257 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =92 'Bow Down To The Exit Sign' is a fuck off to the dance music scene...and the fact he hasn't been picked is a crime against music. "Then there's Primal Scream...'XTRMNTR' is a classic. That record is seminal and the only reason they haven=92t been nominated is because th= ey're not music business. Primal Scream and David Holmes do not suck corporat= e cock. They don't play the game, and if you don't play the game you're o= ut." Elsewhere, he blasts the "Jeff Buckley-lite" Coldplay as "bedwetters' music". He continues: "If Coldplay have an attitude about anything, it'= s passing their A-levels." Coldplay are currently 3/1 favourites to win this year's Mercury Music Prize. Other artists nominated this year are: Leftfield, Richard Ashcro= ft, MJ Cole, Death In Vegas, Doves, Badly Drawn Boy, Nitin Sawhney, The Delgados, Helicopter Girl, Kathryn Williams and Nicholas Maw. Chris. MarkBursa@aol.com on 01/08/2000 16:21:02 To: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com, idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: Re: Re[2]: horrible nazi scumbags & Patriotism = - --0__=IIVRVs35Y8MGLvvRtgO8i5epjGUypbZvlVQlbDEni9jRqEJIC9WFV9FE Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Paul, << >> there was a piece in the observer yesterday making this sort of point , how ten or twenty years ago there was so much good music , a lot of which was a reaction to the state the country was in at the time. and now we get coldplay as the leading lights on the "alternative" scene , who are a sort of nothingness personified. much like most of our politicians.p >> Couldn't agree more. I can't believe people can see anything in Coldplay, Embrace etc. Of all the Brit bands, Radiohead are about the only one getting more political at the moment....one of the new songs they did at the RFH was a pretty scathing anti-Blair number.... Mark - --0__=IIVRVs35Y8MGLvvRtgO8i5epjGUypbZvlVQlbDEni9jRqEJIC9WFV9FE-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:40:55 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis What about all the Fall members in all its incarnations without Mark E Smith? giluz >>>> well none of them ever managed a long-term solo career , but i always thought the early releases by adult net and the blue orchids were pretty excellent. actually i like a lot of the adult net album , but i wish she'd done it in a more abrasive way instead of the sort of banglesy stuff a lot of it ended up as. marc riley and the creepers were pretty duff though. wonder if scanlon/hanley will ever have a go? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:48:00 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: Did You Know? - Do You Care? MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > Paul, > > << >>>>> i still fondly remember all the yes fans at school and how they > reacted when the 2 buggles guys replaced jon anderson and rick wakeman. sort > of numb shock that such a catastrophe could have happened. long may such > things continue.p > >> > > Indeed. And Yes were still pants. > > Mark I had a look at the alt.music.yes newsgroup a while ago, and the yesfans are still in shock, most of the posters don't rate anything the band's done since 1980. It's about the most critical music newsgroup or mailing list I've come across. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:51:56 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Bands with personnel problems >>>>>> god , where do you start. ELO without jeff lynne (seen 'em yet >katherine?) Can it be any worse than ELO *with* Jeff Lynne? ///// its a frightening thought,i agree. > , the guy from black >lace is currently fronting smokie (what a combination). > Not any more he isn't! The guy from black lace died about 5 years ago! ///// no way! there was a top 10 crap acts show on C4 maybe 6 months ago and (staggerringly) black lace were right up there. they were talking about how the band sadly broke up at the offer of smokie megabucks. mind you , i suppose it could have been the still-alive one talking. don't recall any mention of death though. still , all these black lace/smokie/dollar/guys & dolls/bucks fizz guys are a bit interchangeable at the best of times....... Ironically enough, before the dizzy heights of 'Agadoo', 'Superman' and 'We're 'avin a gang bang', an earlier incarnation of Black Lace were a kind of gritty, northern AOR band and were actually taken to court by Smokie for releasing a single which bore more than a passing resemblance to 'Living next door to Alice'. There we are folks, we've gone from Marxism to the Israeli political scene to the career of Smokie in the space of 24 hours! Wire? Who's that? //// it is always important to discuss such cerebral matters (black lace that is)p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:01:18 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: COLDPLAY & Re: Re[2]: horrible nazi scumbags & Patriotis N'XTRMNTR' is a classic. That record is seminal and the only reason they haven’t been nominated is because they're not music business. Primal Scream and David Holmes do not suck corporate cock. They don't play the game, and if you don't play the game you're out." Radiohead are about the only one getting more political at the moment....one of the new songs they did at the RFH was a pretty scathing anti-Blair number.... Mark >>>> i was reading record collector today , there's a review of a duff-looking radiohead book. one of the reviewer's pointed questions is how radiohead have so avidly played the corporate game for the majority of their career yet still get away with being thought of as outsiders/rebels etc. interesting point i thought.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:58:37 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: Re All-Fall. >>What about all the Fall members in all its incarnations without Mark E Smith? >>giluz Any potential band member showing signs of individual creativity stepping onto Smith's high velocity audition conveyor belt would be weedled out by the sour maestro. I think he wants fall guys. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:05:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis Paul, << What about all the Fall members in all its incarnations without Mark E Smith? giluz >>>> well none of them ever managed a long-term solo career , but i always thought the early releases by adult net and the blue orchids were pretty excellent. actually i like a lot of the adult net album , but i wish she'd done it in a more abrasive way instead of the sort of banglesy stuff a lot of it ended up as. marc riley and the creepers were pretty duff though. wonder if scanlon/hanley will ever have a go? p >> Blue Orchids were superb - but you're being a bit hard on the Boy Lard. the first Creepers single (Favourite Sister) is a classic - the line-up on the record is basically the classic Fall line-up minus MES, which gives you an idea what whould have happened if MES had stumbled, pissed, under the wheels of a Salford bus in 1982... The Tony Friel-era Passage is pretty good too. Hanley and a couple of other ex-Fall blokes currently play as Ark (not sure Scanlon is involved). I've heard mixed reports - apparently the singer is annoying. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:08:58 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) The Fall - Kicker Conspiracy REM - Fall on Me Generally I just like ones where there is a film of the band playing, against a plain background. (eg Play for Today by the Cure). Either that or simple, fairly abstract ideas. I dislike videos that overwhelm the music.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:12:16 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Bands with personnel problems Oh my god!!! And I thought I was having a bad day already. hahahaha Well, maybe the new guy doesn't have a whiney voice? Maybe they're better! katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Bands with personnel problems > >>>>>> god , where do you start. ELO without jeff lynne (seen 'em yet >katherine?) > > Can it be any worse than ELO *with* Jeff Lynne? > > ///// its a frightening thought,i agree. > > > > , the guy from black >lace is currently fronting smokie (what a combination). > > > > Not any more he isn't! The guy from black lace died about 5 years ago! > > ///// no way! there was a top 10 crap acts show on C4 maybe 6 months ago and (staggerringly) black lace were right up there. they were talking about how the band sadly broke up at the offer of smokie megabucks. mind you , i suppose it could have been the still-alive one talking. don't recall any mention of death though. still , all these black lace/smokie/dollar/guys & dolls/bucks fizz guys are a bit interchangeable at the best of times....... > > Ironically enough, before the dizzy heights of 'Agadoo', 'Superman' and 'We're 'avin a gang bang', an earlier incarnation of Black Lace were a kind of gritty, > northern AOR band and were actually taken to court by Smokie for releasing a single which bore more than a passing resemblance to 'Living next door to Alice'. > > > There we are folks, we've gone from Marxism to the Israeli political scene to the career of Smokie in the space of 24 hours! Wire? Who's that? > > //// it is always important to discuss such cerebral matters (black lace that is)p > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:16:16 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis Paul, << >>> i have several times heard peter hook claim that if they'd have continued then joy division would have had the position U2 ended up with. not sure i entirely see that one , but its a curious thought.<< It would have become increasingly difficult to play live, so I would have imagined a lot more studi-created electronics-based stuff like Decades, The Eternal or Atmosphere.... Can't imagine IC with a mullet, waving a flag while strutting his stuff at Red Rocks. >>ruts dc looked a dreadful prospect to me. what were they like?<< OK actually. they didn't try to be the Ruts at least. All three of them sang - - sadly they had a sax player as well. Bit Police-like - some reggaeish tracks. Different View (the single) was quite good, if a bit limited... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:22:02 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: Noise on a CD isn't music/Oasis Blue Orchids were superb - but you're being a bit hard on the Boy Lard. the first Creepers single (Favourite Sister) is a classic - the line-up on the record is basically the classic Fall line-up minus MES, which gives you an idea what whould have happened if MES had stumbled, pissed, under the wheels of a Salford bus in 1982... >>>>> yes , f/sister is a good track. should've bought it. but i saw them live twice and it was ok but nothing special. i also saw the creepers without marc and that was a lot worse. The Tony Friel-era Passage is pretty good too. >>>> i didn't realise they released anything. was it just a couple of singles?p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:21:20 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Noise isn't music? well said!! katherine > Booo! You sound like someones Dad in the 1950s....Turn that racket down! You > can't hear the words! :) > > Noise isn't music? Try telling that to Merzbow, Autechre, Sonic Youth, My Bloody > Valentine, Bruce Gilbert, Labradford, Jim O'Rourke, Brian Eno, Panasonic, Spacemen > 3, Main, Lou Reed, The Velvet Underground, Faust, Neu, Can, Cabaret Voltaire, > Throbbing Gristle, Vvm, Aphex Twin, Speedy J, Surgeon.......even the Beatles > (see Revolution No.9). etc etc etc. > > > ---------------------------------------------- > Re: Oasis > > >Well, he was abusive to the audience, but I'm not sure if it was a reaction > to > >being bottled, or whether the bottling was a reaction to the abuse. I like > to > >think that the crowd had a collective road-to-Damascus experience, and realised > >they'd paid good money to watch a bunch of no-marks. > > > Perhaps it was becase they had paid good money to see Oasis but instead got > Liam Gallagher and four session musos.....I mean you'd be gutted if you paid > to see The Who and it was just Roger Daltrey and a backing group...... > > Actually, I hear the Beach Boys are touring but the only original 'Boy' is Al > Jardine with his kids on bass and guitar and Wilson/Phillips on backing vocals > or something....yuck, and I heard something about Hermans Hermits were on tour > but the only original member was the Drummer! Anyone else know any good rip > off bands? Didn't the Byrds end up with no original members at all? > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:28:04 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) Depeche Mode - See You. Dave Gahan walking around Woolworths singing into phones. Classic. Chris. MarkBursa@aol.com on 01/08/2000 17:08:58 To: george.m.hook@ac.com, idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) The Fall - Kicker Conspiracy REM - Fall on Me Generally I just like ones where there is a film of the band playing, against a plain background. (eg Play for Today by the Cure). Either that or simple, fairly abstract ideas. I dislike videos that overwhelm the music.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:27:26 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Favourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) OK, I grew up on Mtv. I watched the day it was on air, I had the Mtv sweatshirt and button and all that stuff. (I was only 12, so give me a break) So, I guess I can put a few of my favorite videos in: The ones that come to mind right now, don't know why: Cibo Matto - "Sugar Water" Art of Noise - (? something about the Edit, with the little girl smashing stuff on train tracks) Siouxsie & The Banshees - "Spellbound" More will come to mind later. I used to tape hours of videos and scan through them and assimilate info. haha I wish I could say that I remember any good Wire videos - in my opinion the ones I remember I don't really like. ;-( k - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: Favpourite Videos (was Did You Know? - Do You Care?) > The Fall - Kicker Conspiracy > REM - Fall on Me > > Generally I just like ones where there is a film of the band playing, against > a plain background. (eg Play for Today by the Cure). Either that or simple, > fairly abstract ideas. I dislike videos that overwhelm the music.... > > Mark > > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #237 *******************************