From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #225 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, July 21 2000 Volume 03 : Number 225 Today's Subjects: ----------------- vinyl set sale [kevin eden ] RE: idealcopy-digest V3 #221 ["giluz" ] RE: Radiodread ["giluz" ] RE: REM (was Re: GbV) ["giluz" ] RE: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) ["giluz" ] RE: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re[2]: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[2]: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 [Howard Spencer ] Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: GbV, etc. ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) ["Mats Hammerman" ] Re: Three Final Words on REM [Aaron Mandel ] Re: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) [Nik ] RE: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) ["giluz" ] RE: REM (was Re: GbV) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] RE: REM [george.m.hook@ac.com] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: Radiodread ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: GBV [CaptApe@aol.com] Re: stadium rock etc. [Carl Archer ] Re: REM [Carl Archer ] Re: stadium rock etc. [Paul Pietromonaco ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:47:28 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: vinyl set sale VINYL SET SALE A recent rummage in the cellar unearthed the following items for sale: WIRE - Buzz Buzz Buzz 12" (one copy) £5 A.C MARIAS - Just Talk 12" (one copy) £5 HE SAID - Pale Feet 12" (7 copies) £5 WIRE - Turns & Strokes (double LP) (10 copies) £10 Postage & packaging for one item: UK - £1.00 Europe - £1.50 USA - £2.00 ROW - £2.50 Add 50% P&P for each additional. This offer is open until all sold. All offers by e-mail only, first come first served. ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:04:57 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: idealcopy-digest V3 #221 Colin is Lennon and Graham & Bruce are Yoko. Robert is Linda McCartney. giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of flaherty michael w > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 4:45 PM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #221 > > > > From: "giluz" > > err... so, does this mean that A-Z is Plastic Ono Band, Singing Fish is > > Imagine (!!!) and Dome is Wings? Dugga Dugga Dugga should be the > > reincarnation of Sgt. Pepper Knew My Father. > > Wait .. so you see Colin as the Lennon and Graham/Bruce as the McCartney? > I think I'd reverse that. :) > > > Still waiting for Post Everything to open, > > Michael Flaherty > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:09:10 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Radiodread > > My sentiments exactly. > > I like REM to a certain extent but again Stipe's voice is a little whiney. > I can only play a handful of tracks before I hit the eject button and file > back with The Communards (no, I don't own The Communards). > > Chris. > > Best REM moment I had: In 1996, when the first results of the Israeli election won by Benjamin Netanyahu came in, somone on the radio put on "It's the End of the World As We Know It" - the only thing that brought a smile to my lips that day. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:54:30 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: REM (was Re: GbV) > First, what do we mean by "mainstream"? What's mainstream has changed > *massively* from th early '80s, when R.E.M. began, to now (for > one thing). > What's always been central to R.E.M. is that they're song-based; that is, > the skeleton of the songs is chords and melody (rather than, say, sounds, > structure, drone, rhythm, etc.). And in that sense (I guess), they're > mainstream. Then again, one of the biggest mainstream trends these days is > rap-metal hybrids, and rap works primarily on rhythm and words, while > metal only occasionally worries much about melody and chords and depends > primarily on technique and viscerality. Furthermore, most bubblegum pop > (Britney Spears etc.) is based less on melody than on persona and > danceability. What I meant by REM not being too far from mainstream to begin with was that their music was never too extreme, never really disturbing. They always had pretty ballads and catchy songs, so they were set for success (potentially) from way back. They were always a band even parents could like, if you catch my teenager metaphor. You can't say that about Wire. Even today's parents wouldn't go for Pink Flag or 154 (or would they?). > > So are chords and melody - a/k/a pop - mainstream anymore? Don't think so > - at least not in the US. (Maybe more so in the UK, from what I can > gather. And I have no idea what's popular elsewhere - giluz, you're in > Israel, right?) Even in Israel, where there's a very big electronic music scene, chords and melody are still at the core of mainstream. That's what most people would still go for, and that's most of what's played on the radio. I don't know about the US, but according to what Ray wrote regarding US radio and its attitude towards instrumental music, it looks like the same situation. > So: you might like them or not, but I'd say two things are true: they've > changed, a lot, and have never been willing to stagnate. And those changes > have not been motivated by commercial concerns, since (with the possible > exception of the louder rock noise of _Monster_) nothign they changed *to* > was currently charting. And I'll still argue that the change to harder > rock on _Monster_ was motivated more by a need for change, away from the > more subdued, nearly AAA-fare of the previous two (and most successful) > albums, than by an attempt to cash in on trends (why bother? At that point > they were one of the two-three most successful bands in the world). Still, Stipe's whine sounds always the same. Production may have changed, but the songs structure did not. > > The band was also among the '80s pioneers of acts that charted independent > tours, building a network that later became standard to follow among > college radio stations, indie record stores, etc., and which led to the > whole indie label thing that characterized American non-mainstream rock in > the '90s. > > And for a long time there, they were a whole long ways from "getting rich > doing it" - touring around the country for 5-6 years in a van is hardly > luxury living. Their mass popularity was pretty much an accident (in the > sense that they neither strove for mass, mainstream success nor could it > have been predicted based on the level of popularity through, say, _Life's > Rich Pageant_), and they could have capitalized on that popularity a lot > more whorishly than they did...by recording the same album over and over > again, instead of making at least two fairly dramatic turns away from the > style that first made them huge. Well, obviously REM maintained their 80's alternative music ideology. They definitely did not sell out, but they didn't do anything remotely interesting since their great break either. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:59:15 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) > Yeah, me too. And especially with that Wings of Desire arty clip. > I used to > > like REM back in the 80's, but this is such crap, even worse than the film > > itself. >> > > gosh, wings of desire is one of my favorite movies. am i alone on > this one? i > hope not. maybe wim wenders will hook up with wire for some soundtrack > material someday. that would be something! > > -paul Wings of Desire was one of the biggest disapointments I had. Wenders was by that time my favourite director, on account of films like The American Friend and The Sense Of Things. The film doesn't have the narrative complexity I expected from him. It's kitch, its metaphors are a complete cliche (an angel giving up his wings for the love of a circus girl - c'mon, get real). Still, the Nick Cave and Peter Falk bits are more than worth it. Catch out earlier wenders films, especially his pre-American period. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:20:28 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: RE: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) I do like the films Wim Wenders has been involved in. Wings of Desire is OK. Nick Cave *and* Crime & The City Solution do make it all worth while. I have a copy of Faraway So Close that I must get around to watching. Any comments??? Until The End Of The World is worth watching. A good soundtrack too. REM (not so whiney here), Depeche Mode, Nick Cave, Talking Heads, Jane Siberry are all here. It's a little slow and if I remember close to 3 hours but pretty good all the same. Incidentally, for the UK listers, does anyone remember a nuclear war film set in Sheffield called Threads from 1984. It's just been released and is still as powerful now as then. I was born around that area and I remember it scaring the life out of me at the time. This is so far off-topic. Many apologies. Bryan, sorry to bring you in on this but for some reason I thought you might remember this. Chris. To: "IdealCopy" , Eardrumbuz@aol.com cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: RE: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) > Yeah, me too. And especially with that Wings of Desire arty clip. > I used to > > like REM back in the 80's, but this is such crap, even worse than the film > > itself. >> > > gosh, wings of desire is one of my favorite movies. am i alone on > this one? i > hope not. maybe wim wenders will hook up with wire for some soundtrack > material someday. that would be something! > > -paul Wings of Desire was one of the biggest disapointments I had. Wenders was by that time my favourite director, on account of films like The American Friend and The Sense Of Things. The film doesn't have the narrative complexity I expected from him. It's kitch, its metaphors are a complete cliche (an angel giving up his wings for the love of a circus girl - c'mon, get real). Still, the Nick Cave and Peter Falk bits are more than worth it. Catch out earlier wenders films, especially his pre-American period. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:39:31 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) Incidentally, for the UK listers, does anyone remember a nuclear war film set in Sheffield called Threads from 1984. It's just been released and is still as powerful now as then. I was born around that area and I remember it scaring the life out of me at the time. This is so far off-topic. Many apologies. Bryan, sorry to bring you in on this but for some reason I thought you might remember this. Chris. >>>>>> yes , threads was really good stuff. a sort of update on those wonderful "protect and survive" films. you'd think it'd have been repeated on the tv , but i suppose it wouldn't fit too well alongside all the gardening/cookery/makeover shows we all love so much. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:46:24 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: Re[2]: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) I called BBC Worldwide a couple of years ago and they denied all knowledge of it. It's just been released on VHS & DVD and is available from, amongst others, Blackstar Video. Chris. paul.rabjohn@ssab.com on 20/07/2000 12:39:31 To: giluz@nettalk.com, Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS cc: idealcopy@smoe.org, b.burford@unn.ac.uk Subject: Re[2]: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) Incidentally, for the UK listers, does anyone remember a nuclear war film set in Sheffield called Threads from 1984. It's just been released and is still as powerful now as then. I was born around that area and I remember it scaring the life out of me at the time. This is so far off-topic. Many apologies. Bryan, sorry to bring you in on this but for some reason I thought you might remember this. Chris. >>>>>> yes , threads was really good stuff. a sort of update on those wonderful "protect and survive" films. you'd think it'd have been repeated on the tv , but i suppose it wouldn't fit too well alongside all the gardening/cookery/makeover shows we all love so much. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:03:01 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 Mark/Katherine/list >But I can't say I liked Urban Hymns - the lyrics to 'Sonnet' remind me of >Christopher Cross's 'Classic' - hailed to be one of the worst lyrics of all >time .... "Gonna write me a classic/Gonna write it in an attic" I have to tell you that this was by Adrian Gurvitz, not the fat squeaky bastard CC (more personal abuse - and why not, it's richly deserved). I don't know why I know this. If only there was a delete cache function for the brain. Next lines were `Babe I'm an addict/An addict for your love', and the record was championed by Dave Lee Travis (US note - one of the biggest Radio one tosser DJs of all time, mate). >And Ashcroft sounds like Jim Diamond. Good call!! `to laaaaaai to one as bewwwwwtiful as yoooooooo'. Lovely. Class. Quality. Bittersweet symphony is a good song, but it's the strings that make it, and they were written by the Stone's orchestral arranger - not the only person to have found himself (sic, I think) credited as 'Jagger/Richards'. I've not heard the Unbelievable Truth even though I live in Oxford, but I gather they got dropped like a hot spud by their major record label, which may or may not mean anything. Showing disrespect for radiohead around here is a bit like walking into a room an announcing that you've just been to the clap clinic. That does not stop me from doing it, mind. Good version of Russ Abbott's Atmosphere was done by Brummie novelty act Ted Chippington - anyone remember him? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:54:55 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 I've not heard the Unbelievable Truth even though I live in Oxford, but I gather they got dropped like a hot spud by their major record label, which may or may not mean anything. Showing disrespect for radiohead around here is a bit like walking into a room an announcing that you've just been to the clap clinic. That does not stop me from doing it, mind. >>>> i also missed the undoubted treat of the unbelievable truth , sorry but these "my relatives are famous" bands don't exactly whet my appetite. mind you , if there's one good thing about the return of radiohead it might be that we get rid of all these bands like muse and coldplay who've tried to fill the gap. Good version of Russ Abbott's Atmosphere was done by Brummie novelty act Ted Chippington - anyone remember him? >>>> what a dude. i saw a couple of vindaloo nights around birmingham in the mid 80's , the place almost got hip. they had quite a good roster at one point ; nightingales/ted c/fuzzbox(don't laugh , they were ok when they started)/terry & gerry/toxic shock. the classic ted c moment for me was he did a radio one session (janice long i think) and chose to do 3 covers of songs by that other great radio one dj steve wright. he did them all totally straight as if they were really serious numbers , the version of "the gay cavaleros" was a particular classic. and all those acts seem to have vanished without trace , pity as they deserved better. p Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:13:31 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) Paul, Same here - a superb film (like most of Wenders' stuff) Mark << gosh, wings of desire is one of my favorite movies. am i alone on this one? i hope not. maybe wim wenders will hook up with wire for some soundtrack material someday. that would be something! >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:22:24 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 In a message dated 07/20/00 11:03:53AM, you write: << Good version of Russ Abbott's Atmosphere was done by Brummie novelty act Ted Chippington - anyone remember him? >> I was walking down the road the other day and I bumped into a bloke who said "I 've just got back from Nam. Chelt'Nam. etc. Genius. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:25:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 Howard, << I have to tell you that this was by Adrian Gurvitz, not the fat squeaky bastard CC (more personal abuse - and why not, it's richly deserved). I don't know why I know this. If only there was a delete cache function for the brain.<< I bow to your greater knowledge......most impressive ;-) >>Next lines were `Babe I'm an addict/An addict for your love', and the record was championed by Dave Lee Travis (US note - one of the biggest Radio one tosser DJs of all time, mate). >> BLT, the hairy sandwich, as Smashie and Nicey put it.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:34:09 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 Paul, << >>>> i also missed the undoubted treat of the unbelievable truth , sorry but these "my relatives are famous" bands don't exactly whet my appetite. mind you , if there's one good thing about the return of radiohead it might be that we get rid of all these bands like muse and coldplay who've tried to fill the gap. >> Unbelievable Truth are fine - if a bit dour at times. All the singles have been good, but the albums are very downbeat. Which is fine by me, but not everybody's cup of tea. The Radiohead comparison is probably more of a hindrance than a help. Also they seem to be a proper band, with the other blokes involved in writing/producing etc. Coldplay are unbelievably dull while Muse are slightly better, though so derivative of Radiohead to be laughable. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:11:42 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: GbV, etc. Tube Disaster/Dan wrote: Oh, yeah. Radiohead ... Isn't that a synonym for "overrated"? Dan =================== I thought that the current synonym for "overrated" was 'Sleater-Kinney'? :-P Cheers, Ray ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:26:33 GMT From: "Mats Hammerman" Subject: Re: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) >gosh, wings of desire is one of my favorite movies. am i alone on this one? >i >hope not. maybe wim wenders will hook up with wire for some soundtrack >material someday. that would be something! > >-paul Your not alone. Its my all time favorite movie. I was in Berlin quite a lot during the 80-ies and its really have cought the feeling of Berlin back then - - and its a great lovestory spiced with great music. And as Wim Wender have done some great soundtracks it must me a question of time until it features a Wire-song. Mats ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:34:29 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: Three Final Words on REM Shiny Happy People ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:21:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Three Final Words on REM On Thu, 20 Jul 2000, Ciscon, Ray wrote: > Shiny Happy People right, because writing a mediocre song magically infects everything else you've written with creeping badness. come on. REM are not a *sham* just because someone dislikes them, and there is no single keystone which you can pull away to cause their entire oeuvre to crumble. i also sense a bit of revisionism going on in the claim that REM have "always been commercially viable". we've inherited this sense that popular music is catchy and upbeat by definition, even though the pendulum swings the other way for periods long enough to scuttle many other bands' careers. i also remember reading mainstream reviews of REM in the mid-80s which focused almost obsessively on Stipe's muttering, as though it were an affront to the listener; right now, failure to enunciate is not generally perceived as an obstacle to commercial success. i do think that REM's freshness is somewhat overrated these days, maybe because i've already heard most of the music they're lifting ideas from. however, along those lines, i think that it's one of their *strengths* for everything they do to still sound like REM... it introduces a wider audience to new ways of listening (which they may not even realize are new to them) rather than waving its dilettantism in everyone's face (something i found annoying about Beck's otherwise enjoyable Mutations). i just wish some critics would pick up on that and not take it upon themselves to do the waving. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:56:09 +0100 From: Nik Subject: Re: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) In message , Mats Hammerman writes > >>gosh, wings of desire is one of my favorite movies. am i alone on this one? >>i >>hope not. maybe wim wenders will hook up with wire for some soundtrack >>material someday. that would be something! >> >>-paul > >Your not alone. Its my all time favorite movie. I was in Berlin quite a lot >during the 80-ies and its really have cought the feeling of Berlin back then >- and its a great lovestory spiced with great music. And as Wim Wender have >done some great soundtracks it must me a question of time until it features >a Wire-song. >Mats Didn't it feature a Minimal Compact song ('When I go', sung by Malka)? Nik >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:33:06 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) > > I generally prefer Herzog and Fassbinder to Wenders, but Wings of > Desire is > a good movie. I mean, including Nick Cave and Crime and the City Solution > were good moves (consider what groups or music he could have used for such > a movie) and it's well shot, let's face it. True, and I already said that Cave and City Solution were the film's best parts. Wenders certainly has a good musical taste, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Wire songs feature in his films as well. The film is definitely well shot, and its aesthetics and mise-en-scene are brilliant. Still, the narrative sucks, in my opinion. Maybe your jaded > because hacks > got hold of the concept and turned it into shtick (like REM and the > American version with Nick Cage instead of Cave). > As I already mentioned before, I saw the film when it was released, and in that time Wenders for me was almost a god, so I wasn't prejudiced in advance - on the contrary. I have the same argument with most of my friends, who think it's a great film as well, so I'm quite aware that I'm in the minority on that issue. I didn't know they made an American version - well, who cares anyway? > Didn't it feature a Minimal Compact song ('When I go', sung by Malka)? Yes, it did. I think it was playing from a radio when Peter Falk stops to buy cigarettes. Not one of my favourite MC songs, though. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:18:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: REM (was Re: GbV) On Thu, 20 Jul 2000, giluz wrote: > What I meant by REM not being too far from mainstream to begin with was that > their music was never too extreme, never really disturbing. They always had > pretty ballads and catchy songs, so they were set for success (potentially) > from way back. They were always a band even parents could like, if you catch > my teenager metaphor. And this makes them commercial? Somebody better tell the managers of Korn, Limp Bizkit, et al pronto that they'd better start appealing to teens' parents... ;) Agreed that REM was never "disturbing" in an obvious way - then, "disturbing in an obvious way" pretty much *is* mainstream these days, outside the bubblegum realm (as it was in the '80s, if you recall the chart success of yr Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister, etc.). Frankly, being "disturbing" is overrated - it's pretty damned easy. You can't say that about Wire. Even today's parents > wouldn't go for Pink Flag or 154 (or would they?). Well, I'm 38, and I'm not a parent, although I'm old enough to be one. And many of the folks I saw at Chicago were old enough to be people's parents. So I'd have to say you're overgeneralizing about the relationship of age/parental status to music. And what makes Wire interesting isn't *only* that they can be experimental, disturbing, etc. - it's that they can do this and also write great pop songs - often at the same time. Plus, they're brilliant arrangers - a lot of their material gains variety through the simple (but effective) trick of layering different materials over each verse, whose musical skeleton might not vary otherwise. > Still, Stipe's whine sounds always the same. Production may have changed, > but the songs structure did not. > > Well, obviously REM maintained their 80's alternative music ideology. They > definitely did not sell out, but they didn't do anything remotely > interesting since their great break either. Fair enough - between Stipe's "whine" and your judgment that they haven't done anything interesting, it's clear why you don't like them. My point is simply that "interesting" (and what constitutes a "whine" - I'm sure there are those who think Colin Newman's hardly a brilliant singer) is a judgment call, not an absolute, objective statement. And realistically, you must acknowledge that 80 - 90% of Wire's music (that is, the music they released as Wire - not counting solo etc.) is song-based - that is, structurally very similar to REM's output on that level. Yes, Wire took many more chances sonically (and structurally, with that other 10 - 20%), and the earliest stuff often severely truncated verse/chorus expectations (then again, early REM did that with lyrics - Stipe would omit words or only syllables if it fit his point) - but let's not make Wire into headscratchingly oblique avatars of avant-garde obscurity all the time: they're not (cue "Outdoor Miner"). Probably enough on this one - it's notoriously difficult to nail down musical taste in objective terms. At the end of the day, I can rationalize why I do or don't like a band - but ultimately, I just *do*, and whatever criteria I can come up with, someone else can find another band meeting that criteria that I might think sucks. De gustibus whatever... - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::I'M ONLY AS LARGE AS AN ANT AND I'M HIDING INSIDE YOUR CAR:: __cryptic placemat phrase, Madison WI, 1986__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:33:20 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: RE: REM They need to go back to their roots, much like Wire is doing. They need twelve string guitars and murmured Faulknerian musings as produced by Mitch Easter. They need to bring back the old drummer (sound familiar?). Stipe has to lose the affectations, and go sit in a coffeehouse in Athens, Georgia, until he comes to his senses. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't hurt if the B-52s did the same thing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:52:56 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 All right everyone, let's not sugarcoat anything, huh? Let's just let it all hang out! hahaha katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: Howard Spencer To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 7:03 AM Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 > Mark/Katherine/list > > >But I can't say I liked Urban Hymns - the lyrics to 'Sonnet' remind me of > >Christopher Cross's 'Classic' - hailed to be one of the worst lyrics of all > >time .... "Gonna write me a classic/Gonna write it in an attic" > > I have to tell you that this was by Adrian Gurvitz, not the fat squeaky > bastard CC (more personal abuse - and why not, it's richly deserved). I > don't know why I know this. If only there was a delete cache function > for the brain. > > Next lines were `Babe I'm an addict/An addict for your love', and the > record was championed by Dave Lee Travis (US note - one of the biggest > Radio one tosser DJs of all time, mate). > > > >And Ashcroft sounds like Jim Diamond. > > Good call!! `to laaaaaai to one as bewwwwwtiful as yoooooooo'. Lovely. > Class. Quality. > > Bittersweet symphony is a good song, but it's the strings that make it, > and they were written by the Stone's orchestral arranger - not the only > person to have found himself (sic, I think) credited as > 'Jagger/Richards'. > > I've not heard the Unbelievable Truth even though I live in Oxford, but > I gather they got dropped like a hot spud by their major record label, > which may or may not mean anything. Showing disrespect for radiohead > around here is a bit like walking into a room an announcing that you've > just been to the clap clinic. That does not stop me from doing it, > mind. > > Good version of Russ Abbott's Atmosphere was done by Brummie novelty act > Ted Chippington - anyone remember him? > > Howard > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:16:40 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Radiodread "He's a smaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllll town booooyyyyyyyyyy....ooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhh..." haahahaha katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: giluz To: IdealCopy Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 6:09 AM Subject: RE: Radiodread > > > > My sentiments exactly. > > > > I like REM to a certain extent but again Stipe's voice is a little whiney. > > I can only play a handful of tracks before I hit the eject button and file > > back with The Communards (no, I don't own The Communards). > > > > Chris. > > > > > > Best REM moment I had: In 1996, when the first results of the Israeli > election won by Benjamin Netanyahu came in, somone on the radio put on "It's > the End of the World As We Know It" - the only thing that brought a smile to > my lips that day. > > giluz > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:36:16 EDT From: CaptApe@aol.com Subject: Re: GBV I haven't been paying attention (again), so I don't know if this was mentioned, but Robert Pollard always says that 154 is one of the top 5 albums of all time. GBV broke into a bit of "Blessed State" at a show in Kentucky, and I almost peed myself. I've also gotten Bob to drunkenly sing some Wire acapella with me after a show. It all ties in, man. My name is Tony, and I am addicted to Wire and GBV. - -Tony ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:44:33 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: stadium rock etc. > From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:09:11 +0100 > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: stadium rock etc. > > 1. well obviously i was being a little mischievous bringing up radiohead , i > was curious to see what reaction it got. one big fan and a lot who don't > really see it ; about what i thought it'd be. i certainly think they have > their moments ; i remember watching them at glastonbury a couple of years ago > and thinking maybe somebody was finally doing something interesting with what > sounded pretty much like progressive rock (and boy i hated all that yelpesis > stuff). but the albums havn't impressed me overly , i play them occasionally > but just can't see them as all time classics. Radiohead is one of the best recording bands currently going. I haven't seen them live yet, so that's on my to-do list. I have to nominate The Deftones as well (I expect to be reprimanded for saying so). > 2. certain parties (eg Q magazine) now seem to be trying for a soft rock > revival , mr ashcroft's album is getting widely slagged and lumped in with > this. i thought there were a few quite good songs on the final 2 verve albums > , but the solo stuff sounds really dodgy so far. I don't get the Ashcroft thing. There's no hooks in his material. I think he's ugly and needs to eat something too(not that that really matters). > 3. sorry to be off the pace but i dragged out a 15-year old NME single with > "wire" by u2. yep , it's a sort of hommage with a chunk of "being sucked in > again" and some keyboards vaguely like "map ref". never noticed this before. > shame its drowned in the edge's usual digital delay guitar sound , other than > that its pretty good. i saw u2 die a death at st albans on the "boy" tour , > hated the mid-period stuff but actually quite liked the funkier recent > singles. i mean not enough to buy them or anything........ I've been playing guitar for 16 years. I hear no connection between U2's 'Wire' and the band Wire whatsoever (I'm listening to the U2 song as I'm typing this). If you want a prime example of somebody ripping off Wire, listen to "Thieves" by Ministry. There's a direct lift of the chorus to "Mr. Suit" in it. > 4. well GBV certainly inspire some discussion....... I listened to some .mp3 files. They're not under my skin. I know that I like a band when I get goosebumps, but what I heard was just kinda 'eh'. > > p > - -Carl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:59:43 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: REM Doesn't that mean that Stipe has to (a) go back into the closet and (b) borrow Mills' hair? - -Carl P.S. The B-52s lost their mojo when Ricky died. I'm sorry to say that, but he made the grooves. And Kate without Cindy on 'Good Stuff'? What was that about? > From: george.m.hook@ac.com > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:33:20 -0500 > To: "IdealCopy" > Subject: RE: REM > > They need to go back to their roots, much like Wire is doing. They need > twelve string guitars and murmured Faulknerian musings as produced by Mitch > Easter. They need to bring back the old drummer (sound familiar?). Stipe > has to lose the affectations, and go sit in a coffeehouse in Athens, > Georgia, until he comes to his senses. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't > hurt if the B-52s did the same thing. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:05:03 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: stadium rock etc. >Radiohead is one of the best recording bands currently going. I haven't >seen them live yet, so that's on my to-do list. I have to nominate The>Deftones as well (I expect to be reprimanded for saying so). > Well, as long as everyone's expressing opinions this week (^_^), I might as well chime in here, too. (Why not? I like a good Bar-B-Que...) I think Radiohead is brilliant. There - I've said it. Set phasers to "Flambé". (^_^) I got to see them live the first time for FREE when they were previewing material from "The Bends" at a small club in Seattle (Moe's, to be precise). They had just been consigned to the grunge-sound alike-band trash heap of history for "Creep" by all of us local musicans, so there was almost nobody there. I really wasn't expecting much, and was totally blown away. I remember thinking - "Wow- that was a lot better than I expected." That, and "Wow- that lead singer guy sure does look weird." (^_^). When OK Computer came out, it lived in my CD player for ages. I actually had to force myself to stop playing it, or I would have burned out on it, I was listening to it that much. (And, yes, the OK Computer tour was pretty awesome, too, but unfortunately it was in a rock music venue - The Paramount - which wasn't quite as much fun as the small club.) I don't have quite that reaction to the Deftones, but they're quite talented. I have the first album (Adrenaline) and the new one, White Pony, and they're both pretty good. I'm not in the mood for that type of music all of the time, but when I am, they do it quite well, and obviously show some intelligence behind the screaming. >I don't get the Ashcroft thing. There's no hooks in his material. I think >he's ugly and needs to eat something too(not that that really matters).> Ashcroft/The Verve? Personally - I can't stand anything he/they've done. Especially "Bittersweet symphony". That song drives me absolutely crazy, since it's the same 5 bars or so OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Damn - they could have at least put a chorus in there or something. (^_^) [RE: GbV] >I listened to some .mp3 files. They're not under my skin. I know that I >like a band when I get goosebumps, but what I heard was just kinda 'eh'. > I wish I'd never pointed out that archive of MP3's on http://www.gbv.com. Man - do they totally give the wrong impression. See if you can find MP3s from Bee Thousand, Alien Lanes, or Under the Bushes... The songs that initially gave me goosebumps were all off of Under the Bushes... 1. Rhine Jive Click 2. Cut Out Witch 3. Bright Paper Werewolves 4. Lord Of Overstock 5. Acorns & Orioles 6. Office of Hearts Especially Bright Paper Werewolves and Acorns & Orioles. Saddest songs I'd heard in a long time. Cheers, Paul *********************************************************** Brain: "Pinky, Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" Pinky: "I think so Brain, but can the gummy worms really live in peace with the marshmallow chips?" Paul Pietromonaco Test Engineer - Reflection X WRQ, Inc. E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com *********************************************************** ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #225 *******************************