From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #224 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, July 20 2000 Volume 03 : Number 224 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #223 [Howard Spencer ] Misery and despair....bugger [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: GbV [Andy Gower ] Re: GbV [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: GbV, etc. ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: GbV ["Katherine Pouliot" ] ashcroft ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: GbV, etc. [Aaron Mandel ] re: greatest album of all time [DMc ] Re: ashcroft [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: GbV, etc. ["tube disaster" ] stadium rock etc. [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:06:30 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #223 I don't get the point of Radiohead either. If they did an album called `Cheer up, it might never happen', then I'd sit up and listen. I have developed a great dislike for Q magazine and its ilk, with their non-stop stupid `greatest all time' charts, and ludicrous overhyping of reheated shambling indie music (I'd put the Verve and the irritating long streak of piss who sings for them way ahead of RHead on that score). All written by that well-known journalist Phil Space, and of no interest to me. It's all about received wisdom, which is fine if you are a musical illiterate who buys 3 CDs a year but dosen't really like music all that much and needs to be told what is good. End of rant. REM - liked Green at the time, but there really can be no excuse for `everybody hurts', can there'. So has anyone packed off any mini objets d'art to Malka then? Me, I'm working on it. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:39:48 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Misery and despair....bugger Howard, << I don't get the point of Radiohead either. If they did an album called `Cheer up, it might never happen', then I'd sit up and listen. >> So when someone mentions the song 'Atmosphere' you think Russ Abbott rather than Joy Division.... Agree with you on Ashcroft. Yer Dad's old pants. But Radiohead are one of the few original and innovative groups around right now. And if you think they're miserable, try Unbelievable Truth, Thom' brother's band.... I like 'em, mind you! Mark (looking in the wardrobe for his raincoat....) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:58:38 -0700 From: Andy Gower Subject: Re: GbV >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >Alright, this is *way* off - but exactly in what episode of _Buffy the >Vampire Slayer_ was "Teenage FBI" featured? (Yes, I'm outing myself on >this list as a Buffy fan...) I'd read about this, but apparently entranced >with something Willow was saying, never heard the song on any episode. I'm not sure which episode it appeared in because I don't watch the show. Katherine, use Napster and download "Teenage FBI". It's the most accurate one song intro to the band. >From: "giluz" >I've been to gbv's site and downloaded some mp3's, and I really don't >understand what the fuss is about. Nothing I heard struck me as good enough >or bad enough to deserve any kind of reference. GbV is the easiest band to get into. It'll take a while for the songs to sink in, but once they do, they're stuck there for life. Oh yeah, ex-member Tobin Sprout has reformed his old band fig.4 as eyesinweasel. They have a new CD coming out in October. Check out http://www.tobinsprout.com There is also an email list for Tobin at egroups. Egroups also has a GbV news list called Peephole. For certifiable GbV fanatics like me, try Postal Blowfish (look at the http://www.gbv.com site) Andy Gower, "Macho Business Donkey Wrestler" agower@telus.net Vancouver, Canada http://a3a87000.sympatico.bconnected.net/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:54:19 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: GbV Paul, I go for 'Echos Myron', off Bee Thousand (great album) again. The one before Gold Star...great lead bass at the end too. 'I Am A Scientist' comes close too.... Mark << >>> If I'm not wrong, then give me a name of the, I mean THE song to check >>> out by them to prove me wrong... >> >>"Gold Star For Robot Boy" from Bee Thousand. > > >Hot Freaks from ... uh, whatever album it's on. (Alien Lanes? Vampire on >Titus?) > Bee Thousand, again. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:30:51 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: GbV, etc. Aaron, First of all, you read my post wrong. "...Any of those good ol' boy bands" referred to Hootie and the Blowfish and Dave Matthews that GbV seem to remind me of (why, I don't know, but they do). So now you accuse me of *personally* attacking members of this list? You read the post wrong and your mind is running away with itself. I like how you tell me that my opinion is "wrong", too. That is really choice. Since when did I consider myself a potential new fan, or say, "I've tried *everything* and I still don't like them" ??? Just because I expressed interest (minimum at the zenith) in this band does not mean that I am a wannabe fan frothing at the mouth just because of the sheer numbers of people who like them. I've been hearing about them for at least the past two years, including the last week or so, and each time I've investigated them, I've come up wondering what all the fuss was about, just as Giluz said earlier, so poetically. Did you accuse him of attacking GbV fans too like you did with me? I am familiar with the irony of not liking bands on the first try (or first few) then becoming a drooling fan. I was like that with U2, and yes, I am a U2 fan, formerly drooling. Who knows, maybe I will forget about GbV and stumble across something in the future, and maybe I'll become a rabid fan. If I do, you'll be the first to know, and I'll give you a special prize. In the meantime, try not to read too much into these posts, okay? katherine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:44:15 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: GbV hey, thanks for not totally smacking me at a wall like the others are !!! haha katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Gower To: Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 2:58 PM Subject: Re: GbV > >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > >Alright, this is *way* off - but exactly in what episode of _Buffy the > >Vampire Slayer_ was "Teenage FBI" featured? (Yes, I'm outing myself on > >this list as a Buffy fan...) I'd read about this, but apparently entranced > >with something Willow was saying, never heard the song on any episode. > > I'm not sure which episode it appeared in because I don't watch the show. > > Katherine, use Napster and download "Teenage FBI". It's the most accurate > one song intro to the band. > > >From: "giluz" > >I've been to gbv's site and downloaded some mp3's, and I really don't > >understand what the fuss is about. Nothing I heard struck me as good enough > >or bad enough to deserve any kind of reference. > > GbV is the easiest band to get into. It'll take a while for the songs to > sink in, but once they do, they're stuck there for life. > > Oh yeah, ex-member Tobin Sprout has reformed his old band fig.4 as > eyesinweasel. They have a new CD coming out in October. Check out > http://www.tobinsprout.com > There is also an email list for Tobin at egroups. > Egroups also has a GbV news list called Peephole. > For certifiable GbV fanatics like me, try Postal Blowfish (look at the > http://www.gbv.com site) > > Andy Gower, "Macho Business Donkey Wrestler" > agower@telus.net > Vancouver, Canada > http://a3a87000.sympatico.bconnected.net/index.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:45:39 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: ashcroft So Ashcroft's really that bad over there, huh?? "long streak of piss"....wow!!! You really know how to do the personal attack thing better than I. Is this Ashcroft guy a big prick or what? I was just about to say that I like a new single on his album here. Yikes!!!! katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 2:39 PM Subject: Misery and despair....bugger > Howard, > > << I don't get the point of Radiohead either. If they did an album called > `Cheer up, it might never happen', then I'd sit up and listen. >> > > So when someone mentions the song 'Atmosphere' you think Russ Abbott rather > than Joy Division.... > > Agree with you on Ashcroft. Yer Dad's old pants. > > But Radiohead are one of the few original and innovative groups around right > now. > > And if you think they're miserable, try Unbelievable Truth, Thom' brother's > band.... > > I like 'em, mind you! > > Mark (looking in the wardrobe for his raincoat....) > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:04:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: GbV, etc. On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Katherine Pouliot wrote: > So now you accuse me of *personally* attacking members of this list? You wrote "I don't fit into any of those categories, and that is why they don't appeal to me." I thought that by 'they' you meant Guided By Voices. Now that I reread it, I can see that it could be ambiguous -- were you just explaining why you don't like Hootie? > I like how you tell me that my opinion is "wrong", too. I didn't say that you're wrong not to like them, I said that your comments on their sound were way, way off. "Happy go lucky"? No. "Crunchy"? No. I've never heard demos of Dave Matthews Band songs, but I find it hard to imagine them sounding like GbV at all. Of course, GbV have a huge body work, and you've heard a small portion of it, so I shouldn't let it bother me that you've gotten the wrong idea. I apologize. > Since when did I consider myself a potential new fan, or say, "I've tried > *everything* and I still don't like them" ??? I didn't say you had; my point was that when the old fans are continually disagreeing about what's good, people who are trying to follow recommendations in good faith can get frustrated. As for you being a potential fan... I don't know, why else ask for recommendations if you aren't interested in them? aaron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:38:59 -0500 From: DMc Subject: re: greatest album of all time This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------EA1318E7EF3FB0F4C30ACEA4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i thought that was "Ocean Rain" oh yeah - only Mac thought so ;) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:35:08 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Radiodread voted greatest album of all time (!) in Q magazine less than 6 months after its release. as you say its certainly OK , but i struggle to see quite how its rated so highly. apparently the new stuff is more "challenging" , interesting to see what all those sixth formers in their travis t-shirts make of it........ p - --------------EA1318E7EF3FB0F4C30ACEA4 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="dmack2002.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for DMc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dmack2002.vcf" begin:vcard n:McKenzie;David x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:absolutely none adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:dmack2002@yahoo.com note;quoted-printable:People always ask me:=0D=0ADMC - What doews it mean?=0D=0AD's for never dirty=0D=0AMC for Mostly Clean fn:David McKenzie end:vcard - --------------EA1318E7EF3FB0F4C30ACEA4-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:33:23 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: ashcroft Katherine, << So Ashcroft's really that bad over there, huh?? "long streak of piss"....wow!!! You really know how to do the personal attack thing better than I. Is this Ashcroft guy a big prick or what? I was just about to say that I like a new single on his album here. Yikes!!!! >> For me it's emperor's new clothes. Doggerel rhyme over an overblown backing. I don't doubt the appeal of the Urban Hymns album - Bittersweet Symphony was a great single and the album was the sort of more mellow affair that Oasis should have made instead of the bombastic, coke-fuelled Be Here Now. But I can't say I liked Urban Hymns - the lyrics to 'Sonnet' remind me of Christopher Cross's 'Classic' - hailed to be one of the worst lyrics of all time .... "Gonna write me a classic/Gonna write it in an attic" And Ashcroft sounds like Jim Diamond. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:03:35 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: wim (was RE: REM (was Re: GbV)) In a message dated 7/19/00 7:37:22 AM, giluz@nettalk.com writes: << > Everybody Hurts (a song that I loathe). > Yeah, me too. And especially with that Wings of Desire arty clip. I used to like REM back in the 80's, but this is such crap, even worse than the film itself. >> gosh, wings of desire is one of my favorite movies. am i alone on this one? i hope not. maybe wim wenders will hook up with wire for some soundtrack material someday. that would be something! - -paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:05:27 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: GbV, etc. Yeah, I'd say that while GBV might not be for you, Katherine (*no* band, Wire very much included, is for everybody ... for instance, the fact that some people here have taken REM even remotely seriously within the last 10 years almost makes me want to cry, but of course they undoubtedly think the same about my belief that ELO, AFOS & the Cars have far less skeletons in their closet than that band with Michael Stipe, who during a performance on one of the late-night shows a year or so ago looked like Joe Cocker with AIDS or something -- simultaneously ridiculous & pitiful ... in a word, I suppose, grotesque), whatever MP3s you downloaded gave you a *very* inaccurate idea of the band. (Maybe they were from the pre-Propeller albums, which I find largely ignorable.) That, or you have a case of tinnitus far worse than my own, which I hope isn't the case. Or maybe Hootie & the Blowfish & the Dave Matthews Band don't sound a *thing* like I've unfortunately gathered that they do. I have to say that I initially -- that is, until about 8 months ago -- treated GBV the way I treat all incredibly hyped bands that I didn't know about from the beginning ... I ignored 'em. I was curious enough to pick up the occasional CD when I'd find it used, & I'd listen to enough songs on each one to discern that the band still wasn't setting me on fire, & back they'd go on my shelves. I didn't pick up the pace till I got a chance to see them in Memphis in, I think, late November, at which point I decided I'd better pay a little more attention to the albums I'd picked up along the way (which turned out to be everything, I was mildly surprised to find). Damn if one after the other didn't "click" with me, some more than others ... The fact that the show turned out to be one of the best I've been to in years (Pollard was apparently more sober than usual) didn't hurt, of course. (Just in case anyone was wondering, no, I don't think I'm so impressionable as to be automatically swayed by the fact that I'm going to be seeing a hugely hyped band up close & personal. The above scenario was repeated in March or so with Yo La Tengo, but my prior impression remains unchanged -- they're pretty much a Sister-era Sonic Youth tribute band. Not necessarily a *bad* thing, mind you, just nothing to get overly excited about.) Oh, yeah. Radiohead ... Isn't that a synonym for "overrated"? Dan >Katherine, > >Don't know what you've downloaded, but very little of the vast GBV output >sounds anything like HoH. Try and get a copy of 'Bee Thousand' before you >judge. Part of the appeal is the fact that there are lots of little >songs...HoH is not at all represenatative of the band. > >Thankfully Hootie and Dave Matthews Band (what a name - you just know they're >going to be dull) haven't made it big over here. Pub rock, really. > >Also, please explain 'crunchy'..... > >Mark > ><< I've just come up with why GbV doesn't appeal to me. What I disliked so > much about Hold on Hope, was that it reminded me of a Hootie and the > Blowfish song. The old songs by GbV that I checked out on MP3 just sounded > like old demo versions of those types of bands. Good for the people that > like that kind of stuff, but I'm not one of them. You can probably guess > that I can't stand Hootie, or Dave Matthews or any of those good ol' boys > bands with the happy go lucky boring songs and the college/Budweiser/crunchy > fans. I don't fit into any of those categories, and that is why they don't > appeal to me. There! Ahhhhh... That feels better! I no longer feel the > need to force myself to listen to any more GbV. :-) >> > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:09:11 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: stadium rock etc. 1. well obviously i was being a little mischievous bringing up radiohead , i was curious to see what reaction it got. one big fan and a lot who don't really see it ; about what i thought it'd be. i certainly think they have their moments ; i remember watching them at glastonbury a couple of years ago and thinking maybe somebody was finally doing something interesting with what sounded pretty much like progressive rock (and boy i hated all that yelpesis stuff). but the albums havn't impressed me overly , i play them occasionally but just can't see them as all time classics. 2. certain parties (eg Q magazine) now seem to be trying for a soft rock revival , mr ashcroft's album is getting widely slagged and lumped in with this. i thought there were a few quite good songs on the final 2 verve albums , but the solo stuff sounds really dodgy so far. 3. sorry to be off the pace but i dragged out a 15-year old NME single with "wire" by u2. yep , it's a sort of hommage with a chunk of "being sucked in again" and some keyboards vaguely like "map ref". never noticed this before. shame its drowned in the edge's usual digital delay guitar sound , other than that its pretty good. i saw u2 die a death at st albans on the "boy" tour , hated the mid-period stuff but actually quite liked the funkier recent singles. i mean not enough to buy them or anything........ 4. well GBV certainly inspire some discussion....... p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #224 *******************************