From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #221 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, July 18 2000 Volume 03 : Number 221 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Available From Sister Ray [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Cocteau Twins [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] RE: Cocteau Twins ["giluz" ] Re: Re[2]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] SPLHC [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] cocteaus/cure [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[4]: goth rock [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Beatles of their times ["giluz" ] Re: Re[4]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: SPLHC ["giluz" ] RE: Re[4]: goth rock ["giluz" ] Re: SPLHC ["stephen graziano" ] Re: cocteaus/cure ["stephenjohnstone" ] Re: Cocteau Twins ["Katherine Pouliot" ] Re: GbV / "Wire" the song [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: GbV / "Wire" the song ["Katherine Pouliot" ] RE: Golden Earring - Twilight Zone ["Ciscon, Ray" ] RE: Re[2]: goth rock ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: GbV / "Wire" the song [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: Golden Earring - Twilight Zone [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: GbV [Katherine Pouliot ] Re: GbV ["tube disaster" ] Re: Cocteau Twins [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] RE: SPLHC ["giluz" ] Re[2]: cocteaus/cure [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[2]: Golden Earring - Twilight Zone [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Cocteau Twins [Stephen Harper ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:30:00 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Available From Sister Ray - --0__=Qd4aB0AGxZVuxL786wGIPWbRPmqNydm1XXBSsOLb2m1wkewxRpxeyjE8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline The following has just been issued. Haven't seen the track listing yet so don't know if it contains Colin's DJ set. VARIOUS: Barcelona Sonar Festival....4xCD - --0__=Qd4aB0AGxZVuxL786wGIPWbRPmqNydm1XXBSsOLb2m1wkewxRpxeyjE8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =A318.99 Chris. The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privil= eged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it= or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. = - --0__=Qd4aB0AGxZVuxL786wGIPWbRPmqNydm1XXBSsOLb2m1wkewxRpxeyjE8-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:34:38 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Cocteau Twins What would be the best Cocteau Twins album to purchase? Chris. The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:12:02 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Cocteau Twins It's personal of course, and I'm only familiar with CT's first 4-5 releases, but Garlands, the 1st one is my favourite. After that it's Treasure. giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 11:35 AM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Cocteau Twins > > > > > > What would be the best Cocteau Twins album to purchase? > > Chris. > > > The Information in this communication is confidential and may be > privileged > and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the > intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or > use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:15:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock Steve << I guess it's all a matter of how you define terms. Back in the day it was post-punk or even acid-punk. I still think Chairs Missing and 154 are the Revolver and Sgt Pepper respectively of the 70's >> Interesting concept. I'd say CM was Rubber Soul and 154 Revolver by that yardstick though. D&E would be the White Album, so I guess Pink Flag should be retitled With the Wire. Sgt Pepper? High art concept? Got to be Crazy about Love :-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:09:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: SPLHC On Mon, 17 Jul 2000 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Steve > > << I guess it's all a matter of how you define terms. Back in the day it was > post-punk or even acid-punk. I still think Chairs Missing and 154 are the > Revolver and Sgt Pepper respectively of the 70's >> > > Interesting concept. I'd say CM was Rubber Soul and 154 Revolver by that > yardstick though. D&E would be the White Album, so I guess Pink Flag should > be retitled With the Wire. > > Sgt Pepper? High art concept? Got to be Crazy about Love :-) D&E is sorta the White Album - if the White Album were 85% "Revolution 9." I'm not really sure that _Sgt. Pepper_ is any sort of "high art concept." I mean, it has that reputation - but really, what *is* the "concept"? I'd give it credit for a couple of ideas that became prominent: giving structure to an entire album (by repeating the title track in variation), making segues between tracks rather than having them be isolated songs, and (overlooked) being one of the first albums to include printed lyrics. But the songs weren't written as any sort of suite, and you'd have to make a pretty big stretch to fit them into any coherent conceptual box. Sure, there are some similarities - "When I'm 64" and "She's Leaving Home" both address change and aging, but from radically differet perspectives - but no more than you'd expect of a bunch of songs written at the same time. Hell, the Psychedelic Furs' first album is more "coherent" in this sense - what is it, 3/4 of the songs use the words "stupid" and "useless," no? - --Jeff, not working at work J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::it's not your meat:: __Mr. Toad__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:23:16 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: cocteaus/cure playing an old tape i did years ago of pink flag , i'd put a few tracks off "it'll end in tears" to fill it up. always loved that "not me". question ; anyone heard the other 2 TMC albums. particularly i wonder what they did with "alone". anyone heard it? just looking at the magazine website and they've reprinted an old interview from 1980 , promoting "soap". journalist comments its getting to be like 1975 again , slagging OMD and commenting "we already have a new Genesis in the esteemed Cure". couldn't resist passing that one on....... p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:24:45 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: goth rock so does that make "in esse" to be "the girl is mine"? and of course "not to" must be "band on the run"...... p Steve << I guess it's all a matter of how you define terms. Back in the day it was post-punk or even acid-punk. I still think Chairs Missing and 154 are the Revolver and Sgt Pepper respectively of the 70's >> Interesting concept. I'd say CM was Rubber Soul and 154 Revolver by that yardstick though. D&E would be the White Album, so I guess Pink Flag should be retitled With the Wire. Sgt Pepper? High art concept? Got to be Crazy about Love :-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:44:08 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Beatles of their times err... so, does this mean that A-Z is Plastic Ono Band, Singing Fish is Imagine (!!!) and Dome is Wings? Dugga Dugga Dugga should be the reincarnation of Sgt. Pepper Knew My Father. giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of MarkBursa@aol.com > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 3:16 PM > To: sjgraziano@hotmail.com; idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock > > > Steve > > << I guess it's all a matter of how you define terms. Back in > the day it was > post-punk or even acid-punk. I still think Chairs Missing and > 154 are the > Revolver and Sgt Pepper respectively of the 70's >> > > Interesting concept. I'd say CM was Rubber Soul and 154 Revolver by that > yardstick though. D&E would be the White Album, so I guess Pink > Flag should > be retitled With the Wire. > > Sgt Pepper? High art concept? Got to be Crazy about Love :-) > > Mark > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:37:13 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: goth rock In a message dated 07/17/00 2:30:16PM, you write: << so does that make "in esse" to be "the girl is mine"? and of course "not to" must be "band on the run"...... p >> ...Dome 1 is Two Virgins and Song 1 from the 154 EP is Back off Boogaloo..... Let's stop this now ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:50:54 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: SPLHC > > Sgt Pepper? High art concept? Got to be Crazy about Love :-) > > D&E is sorta the White Album - if the White Album were 85% "Revolution 9." Right! > > I'm not really sure that _Sgt. Pepper_ is any sort of "high art concept." > I mean, it has that reputation - but really, what *is* the "concept"? I'd > give it credit for a couple of ideas that became prominent: giving > structure to an entire album (by repeating the title track in variation), > making segues between tracks rather than having them be isolated songs, > and (overlooked) being one of the first albums to include printed lyrics. > But the songs weren't written as any sort of suite, and you'd have to make > a pretty big stretch to fit them into any coherent conceptual box. Sure, > there are some similarities - "When I'm 64" and "She's Leaving Home" both > address change and aging, but from radically differet perspectives - but > no more than you'd expect of a bunch of songs written at the same time. > Hell, the Psychedelic Furs' first album is more "coherent" in this sense - > what is it, 3/4 of the songs use the words "stupid" and "useless," no? > You have to keep in mind that in that time, Pepper was really one of the 1st concept albums (Zappa's Freak Out, realeased in 1966, was the 1st that I know of), so you can't compare it to 70's concept albums that had a narrative that keeps the whole album together. Relative to albums made in the 60's, Pepper's concept was a real innovation, for the same reasons which you stated yourself. As for the "high art" thing - that, again wasn't something completely new. High art elements were present with the Beatles at least since Rubber Soul, and Revolver was full of it. Even 'Yesterday" was considered as high art, because of the use of a string quartet in a rock ballad. There were, of course, other bands, at the time, that played with arty ideas as well - from Zappa and the Velvets to Syd Barret's Pink Floyd. It was the sign of the times - the modernist phase of rock'n'roll. Simon Frith has a great book (whose name I forgot, naturally) on the whole concept of art school graduates making rock music, since the 60's till the early 80's. I think Wire's not mentioned in it, though, which is a shame. But the release of Pepper sort of put these whole ideas together and succeeded in making a statement which was both arty and commercial, and that's why it had such a great impact. Personally, I prefer Revolver, White Album, Magical Mystery Tour and Abbey Rd., but you can't take away the importance and impact pepper had. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:57:42 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[4]: goth rock > In a message dated 07/17/00 2:30:16PM, you write: > > << so does that make "in esse" to be "the girl is mine"? and of > course "not > to" must be "band on the run"...... p >> > > ...Dome 1 is Two Virgins and Song 1 from the 154 EP is Back off > Boogaloo..... > > Let's stop this now ;-) > > Mark What does that make Colin's cover of Blue Jay Way, then? a time warp, perhaps? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:23:50 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: SPLHC The similarity of Pepper and 154 to me was in the sense of sonic exploration. Pepper in it's way is the apotheosis of the Beatles studio experimentation in the way they expanded the boundaries of song arrangement and production to include elements in a rock record that had never been there before; used the studio to experiment to the limit of it's technological capabilities (we too often forget that we're talking 4track here - would you like to try a make a Pepper on your Tascam?). MMT had songs that may have had denser production, but no really "new" ideas, just previously sown seeds that were taken a little further. Likewise 154 was an aural suprise when first heard with classical(ish) embelishments and technological edge elements that really made the album seem futuristic in its time. Wire were nver so ambitious (in that sense) again, and to carry the analogy a step further, Newman's A-Z would be the MMT that Wire never made. - Steve. G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:34:35 +0100 From: "stephenjohnstone" Subject: Re: cocteaus/cure I have all 3 of TMC's albums, I have to say that Filigree and Shadows would be one of my top 3 most played albums. Only beaten by the The Bad Seeds "Kicking Against the Pricks"" and Felt's "The Strange Idols Pattern and..............." Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 4:23 PM Subject: cocteaus/cure > playing an old tape i did years ago of pink flag , i'd put a few tracks off "it'll end in tears" to fill it up. always loved that "not me". question ; anyone heard the other 2 TMC albums. particularly i wonder what they did with "alone". anyone heard it? > > just looking at the magazine website and they've reprinted an old interview from 1980 , promoting "soap". journalist comments its getting to be like 1975 again , slagging OMD and commenting "we already have a new Genesis in the esteemed Cure". couldn't resist passing that one on....... > > p > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.166 / Virus Database: 79 - Release Date: 20/06/00 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:08:48 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins Yes, as Giluz says, it's personal tastes, etc. I've been a CT fan for a long time. I have most of their albums, and some compilation and other albums which were collaborations, as well. I really like their early stuff, like Garlands and projects they've done like "The Moon and the Melodies", or anything that has Liz doing vocals, really. She is one of my favorite female vocalists. The earlier darker stuff is classic, for sure, and since then the stuff has gotten a lot lighter, and the lyrics are both audible and seem to be positive and personal for the band, which is something that could definitely turn any of the "die hard" fans off. They have changed over time as with any band, and I like several of their albums. Aside from Garlands and Treasure, I'd recommend: The Pink Opaque (a good compilation of earlier stuff) Blue Bell Knoll Heaven or Las Vegas The last couple after that should really only be heard after hearing the other ones above, to understand the progression they've made. Let us know what you think of them! Katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: giluz To: IdealCopy ; Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 7:12 AM Subject: RE: Cocteau Twins > It's personal of course, and I'm only familiar with CT's first 4-5 releases, > but Garlands, the 1st one is my favourite. After that it's Treasure. > > giluz > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk > > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 11:35 AM > > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > > Subject: Cocteau Twins > > > > > > > > > > > > What would be the best Cocteau Twins album to purchase? > > > > Chris. > > > > > > The Information in this communication is confidential and may be > > privileged > > and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the > > intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or > > use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:36:07 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: GbV / "Wire" the song >"Subspace Biographies" could have been on _A-Z_, actually - it's the way >that trumpety synth line doggedly persists despite the guitar's chord >changes. > I definitely agree. That's one of my favorite non-Wire Wire songs. (^_^) - -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:26:15 -0400 From: "Katherine Pouliot" Subject: Re: GbV / "Wire" the song Can anyone recommend a good GBV CD to get? I have heard so much about them, and know that they are produced by Ric Ocasek (Cars fame), which sounds intriguing. My problem is that the only song I've ever heard by GBV sucked, IMO (Hold on Hope or something like that, recent). So, any recommendations are helpful, please recommend something for me... I'd like to check them out. thanks! Katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Pietromonaco To: The Ideal Copy Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 5:36 PM Subject: Re: GbV / "Wire" the song > >"Subspace Biographies" could have been on _A-Z_, actually - it's the > way > >that trumpety synth line doggedly persists despite the guitar's chord > >changes. > > > > I definitely agree. That's one of my favorite non-Wire Wire songs. > > (^_^) > > -Paul > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:01:05 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: Golden Earring - Twilight Zone Don't forget that Golden Earring had another hit in the US in the 80's with 'Twilight Zone'. MTV played the CRAP out of that video, including the part where they had to zoom in on a woman's face because she was nude. I waited, in vain, for Golden Earring to have a hit in the 90's to match their token hit in the 70's and 80's... but it was not to be. Cheers, Ray Ciscon - -----Original Message----- From: MarkBursa@aol.com [mailto:MarkBursa@aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 10:26 PM To: notcarl@home.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: Golden Earring Carl, << Anybody follow Golden Earring? They're really old, but I think they're still together. >> Dutch rockers, going since the 60s. In Britain they had one hit (about 1972) called Radar Love. REM have been known to cover it. GE's drummer jumped over the kit from his stool at the end on Top of the Pops. Then we never heard from them again. Last time I was uin Amsterdam I chanced upon the Golden Earring section in Virgin. Hell, they are indeed still going, with what looked like at least three original members. They had all kinds of phases - new wave, poodle rock etc - since their hit. Very funny looking at the covers....God knows what it sounds like. I didn't invest. I have Radar Love on 7inch, and that's probably all I need..... I bet they still close their live set with Radar Love. But I bet the drummer doesn't jump any more..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:03:34 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: Re[2]: goth rock Wire, Goth? No Way! Not even 154... I'd have to agree that 154 is art-rock, hell it's even closer to prog-rock than Goth! Ray (knowing fully that the prog-rock reference may just start up another ELO bashing fit!) Ciscon - -----Original Message----- From: MarkBursa@aol.com [mailto:MarkBursa@aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 10:28 PM To: notcarl@home.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock Carl, << BTW, I think that 154 is very goth. >> Oh dear. I'd say 154 was firmly art-rock, and therefore not Goth. Very little about Wire could be construed as Goth IMO. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:40:09 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: GbV / "Wire" the song >Can anyone recommend a good GBV CD to get? I have heard so much about them, >and know that they are produced by Ric Ocasek (Cars fame), which sounds>intriguing. My problem is that the only song I've ever heard by GBV sucked, >IMO (Hold on Hope or something like that, recent). So, any recommendations >are helpful, please recommend something for me... I'd like to check them >out. >thanks! Hi Katherine, Okay - before we begin, I have to clear something up. Only their latest album "Do the collapse" is produced by Ric Ocasek. (This is important to note for reasons which will become clearer later.) And, naturally, that's the one with Hold On Hope on it. So, let's take a quick look at GbV. GbV has basically two distinct phases. Phase one is Robert Pollard, Tobin Sprout, a couple of other people I can't remember, and a revolving door of bass players, getting very drunk, and recording entire albums on bad sounding 4-track cassette recorders. These albums are adored by the rock critic community and are charitably known as "Lo-Fi". The recommended starting points here are "Bee-Thousand" and "Alien Lanes". Some of my friends love "Bee-Thousand". Personally, I could never get a grip on it, although "Kicker of Elves" has some groovy lyrics. I like Alien Lanes better. It has the song "Motor Away", which is one of my favorite of theirs. There are many albums and collections in this phase. The second phase begins when GbV enters a local 8 track studio for the first time to record "Under The Bushes, Under The Stars". This was the first GbV album I picked up, and it's still my favorite. Songs are longer, the production is raw, but clear, and the songs are terrific. The band then quit, and Robert and Tobin began releasing solo albums. I'm not a big fan of Tobin's, so I've never bought any of his solo stuff, but I did pick up Robert's "Not in our Airforce" and "Waved Out". "Not in our airforce" starts out good, but soon turns into 30 second song fragments. Waved Out, on the other hand, has solid songwriting and playing, plus the aformentioned "Subspace Biographies" Wire sound-alike track. Robert then restarted GbV (without Tobin, who decided to concentrate on his amazing Photo-realist paintings) by absorbing the local band Cobra Verde, and they cut the loosely organized concept album "Mag Earwhig". Pretty good stuff here - "Bulldog skin" is a keeper for sure. He then formed a more permanent version of GbV with some of the Cobra Verde members, and people like Jim McPherson from the Breeders, and, with Ric Ocasek, recored "Do the collapse". "Do the Collapse" is probably the strongest album since "Under the bushes...", and, Hold on Hope aside, is a pretty groovy record. Overall, GbV is a great group. At their best, they offer beautiful, 60's British invasion melodies, and unforgettable lyrics. At their worst, they sound like a bunch of drunken guys making up stuff in their basement. I strongly urge surfing the offical GbV website: http://www.gbv.com . They have song samples, and a very complete discography/review section. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:44:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Golden Earring - Twilight Zone Ray, << Don't forget that Golden Earring had another hit in the US in the 80's with 'Twilight Zone'. MTV played the CRAP out of that video, including the part where they had to zoom in on a woman's face because she was nude. I waited, in vain, for Golden Earring to have a hit in the 90's to match their token hit in the 70's and 80's... but it was not to be. >> Phew! we missed out on that one..... Mind you Wire missed out a token Top 75 hit in the 90s to match their one in the 70s (Outdoor Miner) and one in the 80s (Eardrum Buzz).... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:45:08 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock << Ray (knowing fully that the prog-rock reference may just start up another ELO bashing fit!) Ciscon >> ....and why not..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:49:02 -0400 From: Katherine Pouliot Subject: Re: GbV Paul, Thanks for the bio...I'll see what I can dig up! Just as long as Jeff Lynne wasn't involved. hahhhah Kath ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:17:55 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: GbV Paul's summary seemed spot-on to me ... I will note that FWIW, Hold On Hope strikes me as utterly wretched, & if it were the first thing I'd ever heard from GBV I'd have been extremely dubious about them. Robert Pollard harbors unfortunate stadium-rock tendencies that hardly *ever* manifest themselves, but this song was one of those times -- he was obviously trying for a zippo-waving rock-ballad. Hopefully it's now out of his system. (The CD's first single -- Hold On Hope was the 2nd, afaik -- was the far worthier Teenage FBI, which I actually heard on the radio here about a year ago ... Till the DJ identified it after playing it, I assumed it came off the new Rentals [a used copy of which I bought just a couple of days ago], so non-GBV-esque was Ocasek's touch.) Dan >Paul, >Thanks for the bio...I'll see what I can dig up! Just as long as Jeff Lynne >wasn't involved. hahhhah > >Kath > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:51:54 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins In a message dated 7/17/00 5:37:21 AM, Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk writes: << What would be the best Cocteau Twins album to purchase? >> i am totally in love with the album, victorialand. it's their first real venture into softer sounds, but it retains the dark "goth" feel of the rest of the early work. my favorite songs by them come from their incredible assortment of 12" singles, eps. the best are aikea-guinea, tiny dynamine, echoes in a shallow bay, and love's easy tears, all coming from what could be called their "middle period". treasure is fantastic. a nice endcap to the early period, and lead in to the middle period. while i do like everything they've done, heaven or las vegas was never near the top of my list. milk and kisses, a later work, is a nice return to some of the sounds i preferred from years before. - -paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:44:10 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: SPLHC > > The similarity of Pepper and 154 to me was in the sense of sonic > exploration. Pepper in it's way is the apotheosis of the Beatles studio > experimentation in the way they expanded the boundaries of song > arrangement > and production to include elements in a rock record that had never been > there before; used the studio to experiment to the limit of it's > technological capabilities (we too often forget that we're talking 4track > here - would you like to try a make a Pepper on your Tascam?). There's a lot of myth here, cause you can't compare the conditiond in which Pepper was recorded to today's 4-track multirecorders, which are basically manufactured for demos and "amateur" musicians (as in the sense of non-professionals, who don't use expensive heavy professional gear). First of all, the EMI technical staff gave the Beatles the ability to duplicate tracks with the minimum loss of quality - no-one would even bother that much today. Secondly, 4-tracks were at that time the state of the art MTR's - they used 2" wide tapes, whereas today 2" tapes are used for 24-tracks, so the overall quality of each track was much better than any 4-track you could find today. Thirdly, they had George Martin. MMT had > songs that may have had denser production, but no really "new" > ideas, just > previously sown seeds that were taken a little further. Likewise > 154 was an > aural suprise when first heard with classical(ish) embelishments and > technological edge elements that really made the album seem futuristic in > its time. Wire were nver so ambitious (in that sense) again, and > to carry > the analogy a step further, Newman's A-Z would be the MMT that Wire never > made. - Steve. G I agree that MMT was an expansion of the ideas sown in Pepper. But you could say the same thing about Pepper being an expansion of something started out in Revolver, which was, to my opinion, no less revolutionary than Pepper, if only because of the 1st use of audio loops. Revolver began the tendency to use the recording studio as another instrument. Pepper continued the same tendency with lots of new ideas and techniques, most of them completely new and revolutionary. MMT was the culmination of anything that happened in those first two albums (keep in mind that I'm talking about the original double 7" release of MMT). To say that the invention of the flanger, which came out in MMT, is nothing new is a real understatement. Also, there are very few mixes that have the daring, genius and creativity of the way I Am the Walrus sounds - keep in mind that the quality of the songs themselves is not an issue here, as we talk about recording and mixing studio innovations. The artistic and commercial success of Pepper gave the Beatles the opprtunity to go really wild in the studio, and they used it in MMT, before returning to a more basic rockn'rollic way of making music. giluz > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 9:49:31 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: cocteaus/cure so what do you think of TMC's version of "alone"? p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: cocteaus/cure Author: MIME:stephenjohnstone@breathemail.net at INTERNET Date: 7/17/00 7:52 PM I have all 3 of TMC's albums, I have to say that Filigree and Shadows would be one of my top 3 most played albums. Only beaten by the The Bad Seeds "Kicking Against the Pricks"" and Felt's "The Strange Idols Pattern and..............." Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 9:54:31 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Golden Earring - Twilight Zone Mind you Wire missed out a token Top 75 hit in the 90s to match their one in the 70s (Outdoor Miner) and one in the 80s (Eardrum Buzz).... Mark >>>>> elastica did it for them with i am the fly and 3 girl rhumba. and do menswear count? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Harper Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins Chris - don't know where you are located in the UK, but Tower in Picadilly Circus has a bargain rack of 4AD albums, including a few CTs... Stephen What would be the best Cocteau Twins album to purchase? Chris. The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. 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