From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #220 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, July 17 2000 Volume 03 : Number 220 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: U2's Wire ["giluz" ] Needle In The Groove ["giluz" ] Re: U2, Wire [Katherine Pouliot ] RE: U2, Wire ["giluz" ] RE: Malkas Project [Eric Scott ] RE: Malkas Project ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 11:56:24 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: U2's Wire > > OK, here is my time to chime in. I have always been a fan of U2. > There are > songs I dislike, and albums I like better than others. I liked > them from 82 > right up to now. I disliked the rattle and hum bluesy stuff, but > as a fan I > understood that they were checking out the American classic > stuff, and that > was their right, as is anyone's right to choose what they like. For > example, I'm a potter, and I prefer to throw Japanese/Chinese style > traditional tea bowls as opposed to regular coffee mugs. I'm American, I > don't deny it, but there are certain styles which I prefer, and I do a > pretty good job at it, so I don't feel bad. U2 was successful at whatever > they did, some things more than others, sure, like every one else!!! > > As for them ripping off Wire, I honestly can't comment on that because I > don't have the early Wire albums (yet) and don't even know what that song > sounds like! Someone else can pick up from here... > > Kath > I've been a U2 fan for a brief period when War was released (was that its name? the one with New Years Day?). My disapointment with them started with the Unforgettable Fire - it wasn't bad, but I was expecting a bit more from an Eno production. The american phase left me apalled and disgusted - so much ego. These guys thought they were reinventing rockn'roll or something. I mean - God part 2 is the most pretentious crappiest thing anyone ever thought of. But, they returned to form during the 90's, since that album that had The Fly on it. I can't help hating them personally. Bono is so melodramatic and full of himself - I always preferred minimalism, and his singing is so BIG. The Edge is a boring guitarist - I never understood the fuss they made out of him during the 80's - that rhythm delay stuff, I mean, anyone could do it better, at least fill in the gaps with more interesting riffs. The rhythm section is not worth mentioning really. But still, they made some great stuff during the 90's. They certainly do have something to them, despite their huge success and egos. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:58:42 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Needle In The Groove I know that I've already recommended Jeff Noon's books in this list, but his last novel, Needle In the Groove, is realy a must for this mailing list. It's about a band in Manchester in the near future, but it's mainly about British music, especially from Manchester, since the 50's till today. The main focus, however, is set on the closing night of the Electric Circus in 1977, and that's why I think it will interest lots of people in this list. It's definitely a book written by someone who's been there, so all you old punkster should read it. As in all of Noon's books, the narrative itself is quite simple, sometimes even disapointingly so. But his style and the atmosphere he creates are more than worth it. Try out www.needleinthegroove.com for more details. Cheers giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 10:08:33 -0400 From: Katherine Pouliot Subject: Re: U2, Wire You have a few good points... I'm sure a lot of die-hard U2 fans feel the same about U2 as the die-hard Wire fans feel about Wire, in a couple respects. This could be applied to any band that's been around for 20+ years, really. Their "best" albums were their first 1, 2 or 3. The songs that got airplay were too pop. Their best-selling albums were sell-outs, not representative of who the band "really" is. The people that started listening to the band after the first 10 years are not "true" fans... etc... Those are the most obvious points that stand out to me, right now (fresh out of bed, too early so far!) Yes Bono is dramatic, yes the Edge is boring. I'll give you those. As for the Unforgettable Fire being sucky, I totally disagree with that. That album was magical, in my opinion, with the exception of a couple songs. I played that album into the ground, as well as The Joshua Tree. Rattle and Hum is my least favorite, with all that pseudo blues stuff on it, except for some of the not left-over tunes like "Bullet the Blue Sky", etc. I saw U2 twice during that year, and the concerts were excellent, if you were a U2 fan, which I was. At the time of the Unforgettable Fire tour, I was living in the boonies in Texas, and none of my friends liked U2, and I was too young to drive, so I never went to any of those shows then, which would have been incredible for me. doh! The Actung Baby album got annoying, definitely. Songs way too mushy for my tastes. Zooropa, a little bit more of the same, but better IMO. I was more disappointed, at first hearing, of the Discotecque stuff, than I was of the Rattle and Hum. But, after giving it a chance, I like it more than any of the other stuff that came out before it, after the Joshua Tree. It kind of fits in with all the techno stuff I like. I picked up listening to Wire in '87 or '88, when the Ideal Copy came out. I love that album!!! A lot of die-hard fans may want to crucify me for that, because they may consider me not a "true" fan. Just because I didn't know about Wire before that. Since the May concert in Boston, I've expanded my knowledge about Wire and exposed myself to a lot of their earlier stuff, which I like. I'm sure the more I hear it, the more I'll like it. It's just different than what I was first exposed to, so it takes a while. Just like the later U2 records, the "true" fans dislike them, and prefer the original stuff, the un-pretentious stuff, etc. Katherine > > I've been a U2 fan for a brief period when War was released (was that its > name? the one with New Years Day?). My disapointment with them started with > the Unforgettable Fire - it wasn't bad, but I was expecting a bit more from > an Eno production. The american phase left me apalled and disgusted - so > much ego. These guys thought they were reinventing rockn'roll or something. > I mean - God part 2 is the most pretentious crappiest thing anyone ever > thought of. But, they returned to form during the 90's, since that album > that had The Fly on it. I can't help hating them personally. Bono is so > melodramatic and full of himself - I always preferred minimalism, and his > singing is so BIG. The Edge is a boring guitarist - I never understood the > fuss they made out of him during the 80's - that rhythm delay stuff, I mean, > anyone could do it better, at least fill in the gaps with more interesting > riffs. The rhythm section is not worth mentioning really. But still, they > made some great stuff during the 90's. They certainly do have something to > them, despite their huge success and egos. > > giluz > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:32:02 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: U2, Wire > I picked up listening to Wire in '87 or '88, when the Ideal Copy came out. > I love that album!!! A lot of die-hard fans may want to crucify > me for that, > because they may consider me not a "true" fan. Just because I didn't know > about Wire before that. I think most people on this list would agree that Ideal Copy is one of Wire's best albums. As for it being the first Wire album you came across - not long ago there was a discussion here about the ultimate 1st Wire album (the best album to start with) which resulted in mutual disagreement. Everyone's first is dependant on time, age, place and personality. My first Wire was 154, but the Ideal Copy was the first Wire album I bought at the time it was released, so I have a soft spot for it (it also helps that it's absolutely brilliant, and still sounds like it even today). > Since the May concert in Boston, I've expanded my > knowledge about Wire and exposed myself to a lot of their earlier stuff, > which I like. I'm sure the more I hear it, the more I'll like it. It's > just different than what I was first exposed to, so it takes a > while. Just > like the later U2 records, the "true" fans dislike them, and prefer the > original stuff, the un-pretentious stuff, etc. > > Katherine > As for older Wire stuff - you should get it all (and fast) not because you're not a real fan without it, but because it's soooooo good. Actually, I think you're right here, because I had a bit of a problem with Ideal Copy when I first heard it. Not that it wasn't clear to me from the first time I heard it that it was a good album - it just wasn't what I expected from Wire. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 07:39:44 -0700 From: Eric Scott Subject: RE: Malkas Project > > > Ah thats more like it! > What will everyone send to Malka? > >err.. maybe a mullet? > >giluz > - - What an odd thread this has become... (My Pet Mullet?) Eric - -- - ------------------------------------------------------ DAY for NIGHT voice: 310.393.3840 fax/modem: 310.393.2374 ericscott@dayfornight.com http://www.dayfornight.com ====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:49:19 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Malkas Project Absolutely - I just spent some time over the weekend watching some old Wire videos, including the Rockpalast concert from 1979. It seems that Mr. Lewis is in the constant habit of having a mullet, though a bit different every time. And to think that up to a few weeks ago I didn't even know what a mullet is - now it just screams at me: Hey, I'm a mullet - look at me!!! (no worry - I'm not thinking of getting one myself). giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Eric Scott > Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 4:40 PM > To: IdealCopy > Subject: RE: Malkas Project > > > > > > > > Ah thats more like it! > > What will everyone send to Malka? > > > >err.. maybe a mullet? > > > >giluz > > > - > What an odd thread this has become... (My Pet Mullet?) > > Eric > -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > DAY for NIGHT > voice: 310.393.3840 fax/modem: 310.393.2374 > ericscott@dayfornight.com http://www.dayfornight.com > ====================================================== > > > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #220 *******************************