From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #217 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, July 14 2000 Volume 03 : Number 217 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Re[2]: goth rock ["tube disaster" ] Re[4]: goth rock [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] michael o'shea [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: U2's Wire ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: Elastica [Katherine Pouliot ] Re: Re[4]: goth rock ["tube disaster" ] Re: michael o'shea [MarkBursa@aol.com] also on Ebay... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: mullets [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Elastica [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: U2's Wire [Tim Robinson ] Malkas Project [Tim Robinson ] Re: Elastica ["stephen graziano" ] Re: Malkas Project [Katherine Pouliot ] Re: U2's Wire [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re[6]: goth rock [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re:[4]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Malkas Project [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[2]: Elastica [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[2]: [4]: goth rock [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[2]: [4]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re[4]: [4]: goth rock [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: U2's Wire ["stephen graziano" ] GbV / "Wire" the song [Andy Gower ] Re: Re[6]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[4]: [4]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: U2's Wire [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: goth rock [Creatured ] Re[5?]: goth rock [Creatured ] Re: Re[2]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[5?]: goth rock [MarkBursa@aol.com] Golden Earring [Carl Archer ] Re: Re[2]: goth rock [Carl Archer ] Re: Malkas Project [Tim Robinson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 02:27:30 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock Depends on your definition of "goth," I know, but what about any number of Red Lorry Yellow Lorry singles, a la Monkeys on Juice, Walking on Your Hands, etc? Not to mention the Cure's A Strange Day & One Hundred Years, among others. And of course, from the US contingent, lots of stuff off Kommunity FK's 2 albums ... Finally off to bed, dammit, Dan, also strangely fond of The Colors Out of Time's Rock Section 7" (which, while I'm at it, was #001, or however the number was configured, on the small Manchester label Monsters in Orbit. I've just won on eBay what are, if memory serves, #s 003 -- a single by One Million Fuzztone Guitars -- & 005 -- Colors Out of Time's She Spins [been looking for that for *eons*, after seeing it mentioned as forthcoming in an early '80s issue of Masterbag & never seeing any further confirmation that it ever came out] ... Anyone have any clue as to what 002 or 004 might've been? Or whether anything came after the 5th release? Or any info whatsoever on the label or these bands?) _________________________________ >for the record , goth top ten ; > >1. uk decay ; stagestruck >2. sisters ; adrenochrome >3. march violets ; undertow 4. sex gang children ; killer k 5. southern death cult ; moya >6. play dead ; gaze >7. bauhaus ; dark entries >8. theatre of hate ; legion >9. danse society ; somewhere >10. furyo ; cavalcade > >i think from the above you may just guess what my hair looked like in 82-84. i still think some of the early goth stuff has a great stoogey punky feel , it went crap when all the mission/all about eve/dippy hippy stuff came along. but most of the above bands had their monments.p > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:58:16 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: goth rock i saw RLYL a couple of times , they did a couple of good singles but i always thought they were a bit of a sisters/kj amalgam without too much sparkle of their own. walking on your hands was great though. but i stick them in the 2nd division i'm afraid. first time i saw them was supporting xmal ; now they were better. after the first 2 albums i went off the cure. all that morbid stuff seemed a bit forced (nice middle class lads peddling doom and gloom?) , the commercial stuff was a bit twee and then he seems to have re-written the same few songs repeatedly for about the last ten years. but i suspect a few here would disagree with that bigtime , ha ha. i have this vision of rob as a nice normal guy getting into a role every couple of years to recharge his bank balance. but then i am a bit cynical.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock Author: MIME:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net at INTERNET Date: 7/14/00 10:42 AM Depends on your definition of "goth," I know, but what about any number of Red Lorry Yellow Lorry singles, a la Monkeys on Juice, Walking on Your Hands, etc? Not to mention the Cure's A Strange Day & One Hundred Years, among others. And of course, from the US contingent, lots of stuff off Kommunity FK's 2 albums ... Finally off to bed, dammit, >for the record , goth top ten ; > >1. uk decay ; stagestruck >2. sisters ; adrenochrome >3. march violets ; undertow 4. sex gang children ; killer k 5. southern death cult ; moya >6. play dead ; gaze >7. bauhaus ; dark entries >8. theatre of hate ; legion >9. danse society ; somewhere >10. furyo ; cavalcade > >i think from the above you may just guess what my hair looked like in 82-84. i still think some of the early goth stuff has a great stoogey punky feel , it went crap when all the mission/all about eve/dippy hippy stuff came along. but most of the above bands had their monments.p > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:58:22 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: michael o'shea rarely discussed here but a fave of mine , judging by the times i've been asked to tape it i guess a few people are curious. bought mine from a bloke in record collector and i've never set eyes on another copy. anyway , there's one on ebay now for $20 and nobody's put a bid in yet...... wonder why this never got a release on wmo but des simmons did? to me the mo's is much more interesting? wonder how the des cd sold? p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:07:39 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: U2's Wire >and I was wondering is does anyone know if the the track 'Wire' was so >called because they had basically ripped off the main theme from 'The >15th' from 154? Who knows? But U2 used to cover 'Mannequin', so it's not beyond the realms....Curious you should mention U2, as I've been playing 'October' heavily recently...schoolboy nostalgia..... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:22:56 -0400 From: Katherine Pouliot Subject: Re: Elastica I would imagine that Elastica made a formal agreement with Wire this time, surely they would be smart enough? Or maybe they don't care about going to court and being bankrupted? k > From: "Stephen Graziano" > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:22:57 -0000 > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Fwd: Elastica > > --- In robynhitchcock@egroups.com, "stephen graziano" > wrote: > I was wondering if anyone out there in Wireland has gotten the new > Elastica > album? (We are allowed to like them, right?) > Anyway I do, and I thinks it's pretty good, Alittle on the short side > at > only 35 minutes. Got a goofy cover of Trio's "DA DA DA" (probably to > tie in > with the big Volkswagon media blitz) and a guest appearance by Mark > E. > Smith, Mr. Fall himself. But the most interesting, and funny, part > is THEY > DID IT AGAIN!! They ripped off Wire!!! Track 6 is titled "Human" > and it is > the best rewrite of "Lowdown" since "Lowdown" and the following track > "Nothing Stays The Same" borrows none too liberally from the chorus > of > "Kidney Bingoes"! Pretty cheeky. - Steve. G > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com > --- End forwarded message --- > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:18:20 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[4]: goth rock >>after the first 2 albums i went off the cure. all that morbid stuff seemed a bit forced (nice middle class lads peddling doom and gloom?) << Whereas the Sisters, Bauhaus et al. were all working-class vampires? Oh, my ... >>, the commercial stuff was a bit twee and then he seems to have re-written the same few songs repeatedly for about the last ten years. but i suspect a few here would disagree with that bigtime , ha ha.<< The commercial stuff was mostly fine with me, but the last 10 years are so have been markedly fallow, with the exception of a couple of songs. Dan i have this vision of rob as a nice normal guy getting into a role every couple of years to recharge his bank balance. but then i am a bit cynical.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock Author: MIME:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net at INTERNET Date: 7/14/00 10:42 AM Depends on your definition of "goth," I know, but what about any number of Red Lorry Yellow Lorry singles, a la Monkeys on Juice, Walking on Your Hands, etc? Not to mention the Cure's A Strange Day & One Hundred Years, among others. And of course, from the US contingent, lots of stuff off Kommunity FK's 2 albums ... Finally off to bed, dammit, >for the record , goth top ten ; > >1. uk decay ; stagestruck >2. sisters ; adrenochrome >3. march violets ; undertow 4. sex gang children ; killer k 5. southern death cult ; moya >6. play dead ; gaze >7. bauhaus ; dark entries >8. theatre of hate ; legion >9. danse society ; somewhere >10. furyo ; cavalcade > >i think from the above you may just guess what my hair looked like in 82-84. i still think some of the early goth stuff has a great stoogey punky feel , it went crap when all the mission/all about eve/dippy hippy stuff came along. but most of the above bands had their monments.p > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:43:08 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: michael o'shea Paul, >>Rarely discussed here but a fave of mine , judging by the times i've been asked to tape it i guess a few people are curious. bought mine from a bloke in record collector and i've never set eyes on another copy. anyway , there's one on ebay now for $20 and nobody's put a bid in yet...... wonder why this never got a release on wmo but des simmons did? to me the mo's is much more interesting? wonder how the des cd sold? p<< Good spot, I'm off there to put in a bid. Been after it for ages. Hope I don't get into a bid war with anyone else on the list :-) I guess des has more of a direct link to Wire - RG plays on some tracks, one or two of the songs were played in CN's live set etc. Cheers, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:50:40 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: also on Ebay... Also there's a copy of Colin's CN1 EP on Ebay - I know someone here was after it a while back.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:55:58 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock Paul, So no room for Bela Lugosi's dead, or Staircase (Mystery) or Release the Bats eh? Never liked those Cult/Sex Gang bands but loved Bauhaus and the Birthday Party....were ToH goth? My 1982-84 hair could best be described as "a Robert Smith". Now that applies more to my physique. Mark for the record , goth top ten ; 1. uk decay ; stagestruck 2. sisters ; adrenochrome 3. march violets ; undertow 4. sex gang children ; killer k 5. southern death cult ; moya 6. play dead ; gaze 7. bauhaus ; dark entries 8. theatre of hate ; legion 9. danse society ; somewhere 10. furyo ; cavalcade i think from the above you may just guess what my hair looked like in 82-84. i still think some of the early goth stuff has a great stoogey punky feel , it went crap when all the mission/all about eve/dippy hippy stuff came along. but most of the above bands had their monments.p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:58:41 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: mullets Dan, In about 1980 I briefly sported a Bonoesque mullet. This was before I discovered the joy of backcombing and hairspray. Present haircut was described recently as a "Mike Mills out of REM". I can live with that. It hides the grey bits on the side better. Mark << As I may've mentioned at the time, I had one about a month ago after getting a haircut for the first time in a year & telling the guy to cut off 3 inches all over (rather than go completely short in one fell swoop). Well, he did just as I said, but damn if the results didn't leave me with hair noticeably longer in back than anywhere else, though it took me long hours of gazing into mirros with a sort of sick fascination to resign myself to that sad fact (co-workers' a/bemused reactions were a bit of a giveaway as well). The horror! Because of my work schedule, I didn't have a chance to crawl back & get an overall short cut for another week ... after which (as I probably also mentioned here) a co-worker remarked that I looked like Glenn Frey. Even that is, I suppose, preferable to having a mullet, which otherwise to my knowledge I'd never had before in any way, shape or form. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:02:43 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Elastica Steve, Check out the writing credits on 'Human'. Four names which might be familiar to you are co-listed ;-) Certainly not as good as the foirst album - and I'd agree that the best stuff was all put on the EP. As for the Neue Deutsche Welle cover, I was surprised they didn't do 99 Red Balloons... Now if they covered 'Wir bauen ein neue Stadt' by Palais Schaumburg I'd be impressed. Mark << I was wondering if anyone out there in Wireland has gotten the new Elastica album? (We are allowed to like them, right?) Anyway I do, and I thinks it's pretty good, Alittle on the short side at only 35 minutes. Got a goofy cover of Trio's "DA DA DA" (probably to tie in with the big Volkswagon media blitz) and a guest appearance by Mark E. Smith, Mr. Fall himself. But the most interesting, and funny, part is THEY DID IT AGAIN!! They ripped off Wire!!! Track 6 is titled "Human" and it is the best rewrite of "Lowdown" since "Lowdown" and the following track "Nothing Stays The Same" borrows none too liberally from the chorus of "Kidney Bingoes"! Pretty cheeky. - Steve. G >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:10:21 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: U2's Wire Katherine Pouliot wrote: > OK, here is my time to chime in. I have always been a fan of U2. There are > songs I dislike, and albums I like better than others. I liked them from 82 > right up to now. I disliked the rattle and hum bluesy stuff, but as a fan I > understood that they were checking out the American classic stuff, and that > was their right, as is anyone's right to choose what they like. Yeah but slagging off bands is fun! Wouldn't life be so boring if we were all so reasonable and forgiving of our Rock stars? They deserve a bit of stick once in a while to keep them in their place. :) I think it was 'All I've got is a red guitar, three chords and the truth' that did it. Yeah Bono, more like '...all I've got is several houses, dozens of cars, bucketloads of cash, three chords and the truth' ! Still I suppose they were aware of that, hence they turned into the Ironic U2 for the last couple of albums. Can't knock 'em for that I suppose. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:11:47 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Malkas Project Ah thats more like it! What will everyone send to Malka? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:29:17 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: Elastica My boo boo. The type was so small I entirely overlooked it. >From: MarkBursa@aol.com >To: sjgraziano@hotmail.com, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Elastica >Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:02:43 EDT > >Steve, > >Check out the writing credits on 'Human'. Four names which might be >familiar >to you are co-listed ;-) > >Certainly not as good as the foirst album - and I'd agree that the best >stuff >was all put on the EP. > >As for the Neue Deutsche Welle cover, I was surprised they didn't do 99 Red >Balloons... > >Now if they covered 'Wir bauen ein neue Stadt' by Palais Schaumburg I'd be >impressed. > >Mark > > > ><< I was wondering if anyone out there in Wireland has gotten the new > Elastica > album? (We are allowed to like them, right?) > Anyway I do, and I thinks it's pretty good, Alittle on the short side > at > only 35 minutes. Got a goofy cover of Trio's "DA DA DA" (probably to > tie in > with the big Volkswagon media blitz) and a guest appearance by Mark > E. > Smith, Mr. Fall himself. But the most interesting, and funny, part > is THEY > DID IT AGAIN!! They ripped off Wire!!! Track 6 is titled "Human" > and it is > the best rewrite of "Lowdown" since "Lowdown" and the following track > "Nothing Stays The Same" borrows none too liberally from the chorus > of > "Kidney Bingoes"! Pretty cheeky. - Steve. G >> ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:44:49 -0400 From: Katherine Pouliot Subject: Re: Malkas Project I'll finally be able to put all my husband's art and 3d programs to good use! I'll think of something. But I'm less visually inclined than a lot of people, have to think about what that would be for me. May take a while! K > From: Tim Robinson > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:11:47 +0100 > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Malkas Project > > Ah thats more like it! > What will everyone send to Malka? > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:50:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: U2's Wire Tim et al U2 were a VERY good live band in their early days. I saw them a couple of times around November 80 in small clubs and they were extremely good - and very distinctive. By late 81 they'd gone God Squad - Bono the Messiah baptising the crowd with buckets of water. Stadium Rock pretensions had set in big time. They toured as a double-header with the Comsat Angels at that time - much of the 'atmospherics' of albums like Unforgettable Fire were copped directly from the Comsats. Saw U2 again a couple of years ago on the Popmart tour (not having seen them for 16 years) and enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would.... Adam Clayton is still a crap bass player, which was reassuring. The best ever Beavis & Butthead was on a U2 video, where Butthead keeps going on about what a cool name Boner is until the end - when he decides the name that really sucks is Thu Edge. Uh-huh-huh. Mark << > OK, here is my time to chime in. I have always been a fan of U2. There are > songs I dislike, and albums I like better than others. I liked them from 82 > right up to now. I disliked the rattle and hum bluesy stuff, but as a fan I > understood that they were checking out the American classic stuff, and that > was their right, as is anyone's right to choose what they like. Yeah but slagging off bands is fun! Wouldn't life be so boring if we were all so reasonable and forgiving of our Rock stars? They deserve a bit of stick once in a while to keep them in their place. :) I think it was 'All I've got is a red guitar, three chords and the truth' that did it. Yeah Bono, more like '...all I've got is several houses, dozens of cars, bucketloads of cash, three chords and the truth' ! Still I suppose they were aware of that, hence they turned into the Ironic U2 for the last couple of albums. Can't knock 'em for that I suppose. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:59:06 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[6]: goth rock >>after the first 2 albums i went off the cure. all that morbid stuff seemed a bit forced (nice middle class lads peddling doom and gloom?) << Whereas the Sisters, Bauhaus et al. were all working-class vampires? Oh, my >>>>> first line-up of the sisters i actually hung out with a couple of times (except eldritch who was never anywhere to be seen). nice down to earth guys having a laugh. bauhaus of course were mega-poseurs (some might say a little pretentious even....) but i think they were deadly serious about it. whereas the cure , i just couldn't take them seriously and it all seemed a bit of an act. i ought to add i found the vampire end of things silly back then and laughable now. remember the specimen? (wire link ; they started out as the unwanted on the roxy album). is a working class vampire better than a posh one? i'll think on that...... .. >>, the commercial stuff was a bit twee and then he seems to have re-written the same few songs repeatedly for about the last ten years. but i suspect a few here would disagree with that bigtime , ha ha.<< The commercial stuff was mostly fine with me, but the last 10 years are so have been markedly fallow, with the exception of a couple of songs. Dan >>>> agreed. what were the couple of songs then?p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:00:00 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re:[4]: goth rock Dan, Agreed. The Cure were light years ahead of those goth bands. Those 3 albums (17sec/Faith/Porn) are all superb. If Robert had topped himself in 82 he'd be up there with Ian and Kurt. I guess pies and vodka are better for you than smack or antidepressants.... Bloodflowers is a pretty good finale to 21 years of pretty constant recording. << >>after the first 2 albums i went off the cure. all that morbid stuff seemed a bit forced (nice middle class lads peddling doom and gloom?) << Whereas the Sisters, Bauhaus et al. were all working-class vampires? Oh, my ... >>, the commercial stuff was a bit twee and then he seems to have re-written the same few songs repeatedly for about the last ten years. but i suspect a few here would disagree with that bigtime , ha ha.<< The commercial stuff was mostly fine with me, but the last 10 years are so have been markedly fallow, with the exception of a couple of songs. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 18:04:34 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Malkas Project Ah thats more like it! What will everyone send to Malka? >>>>> bit of a dilemna that.......... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 18:04:33 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Elastica Steve, Check out the writing credits on 'Human'. Four names which might be familiar to you are co-listed ;-) Certainly not as good as the foirst album - and I'd agree that the best stuff was all put on the EP. >>>>> actually my favourites are human and that's the way i like it , especially the latter. one track per album she let's go and sings from the heart , following brett on "never here" she now picks on poor old damon. after a few plays a lot of "the menace" is a bit skippable , maybe about 5 good tracks in total? p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 18:19:59 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: [4]: goth rock Dan, Agreed. The Cure were light years ahead of those goth bands. Those 3 albums (17sec/Faith/Porn) are all superb. If Robert had topped himself in 82 he'd be up there with Ian and Kurt. I guess pies and vodka are better for you than smack or antidepressants.... Bloodflowers is a pretty good finale to 21 years of pretty constant recording. >>>> do you really believe the cure will quit? p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:24:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [4]: goth rock Paul, RS is on record as saying so. Solo album next, apparently, though quite how that will differ from a Cure album is anybody's guess! Mark << >>>> do you really believe the cure will quit? p >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 18:34:31 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: [4]: goth rock i reckon rob smith first claimed the cure were splitting around the time of pornography. and a few times since. give it 4 years and he'll be back again with a new cure album. such is life (and the record industry).p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: [4]: goth rock Author: MIME:MarkBursa@aol.com at INTERNET Date: 7/14/00 6:28 PM Paul, RS is on record as saying so. Solo album next, apparently, though quite how that will differ from a Cure album is anybody's guess! Mark << >>>> do you really believe the cure will quit? p >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:52:49 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: U2's Wire I saw U2 (one and only time) the first(?) time they played in NYC. It was at the Palladium (still a rock venue in those days) and if I remember correctly they played "I Will Follow" three!! times - first song, last song, and encore. It was cool. They were still upandcomers and had a unique sort of sound. I most remember being impressed with their handling of volume. The guitar sound was huge and the combination of echo/reverb and the halls acoustics really made the chiming/belllike tones of the guitar just hover and shimmer in the air. And man, were they loud! The Pallidium held, oh maybe 3000, but they were already playing for the masses. - Steve. G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:35:50 -0700 From: Andy Gower Subject: GbV / "Wire" the song >From: "tube disaster" >*something* that reminded me strongly of another Wire track, at any rate, >though offhand I'm thinking it was something that called to mind the >beginning of Practice Makes Perfect instead. (Though maybe I'm thinking of a >certain Guided By Voices track ...) I am a certified GbV freak and many of their songs have Wire influence. I always thought lead singer Robert Pollard's solo album _Kid Marine_ was very Wire-ish. I heard "Wire" long before I got into Wire. I put the song on a Brian Eno tape I made featuring his work from Roxy to solo to Bowie to Talking Heads to U2 to Bowie again. Damn, I liked that tape. ***"My Big Day - The Jimmy Pollard Story"*** 25 free MP3s of glorious, delicious Jimmy P! http://go.to/jimmyp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:21:13 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[6]: goth rock Paul, << >>>>> first line-up of the sisters i actually hung out with a couple of times (except eldritch who was never anywhere to be seen). nice down to earth guys having a laugh. bauhaus of course were mega-poseurs (some might say a little pretentious even....) but i think they were deadly serious about it.<< i interviewed Daniel Ash and Pete Murphy for a fanzine in 1980. While Murphy was "in character" (ie pretentious, but not unpleasantly so), Ash was a really nice guy. I don't think it was serious at all. I got the impression they were punks who had invented a n image that allowed them to play glam rock tunes. Murphy looked like a stage school kid who'd seen too many Hammer films. A very contruved image, but successful nonetheless. >>whereas the cure , i just couldn't take them seriously and it all seemed a bit of an act.<< I thought it was quite the opposite. I thought it was great that they moved away from cute pop and darkened up the sound. the Cure probably still sneak into my top 10 all time bands list.... >>i ought to add i found the vampire end of things silly back then and laughable now. remember the specimen? (wire link ; they started out as the unwanted on the roxy album). is a working class vampire better than a posh one? i'll think on that...... .. >> Yikes. Saw Alien Sex Fiend once supporting the Cramps. Gruesome. America is paying the price for that stuff now with Marilyn Manson..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:28:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: [4]: goth rock Paul, << i reckon rob smith first claimed the cure were splitting around the time of pornography. and a few times since. give it 4 years and he'll be back again with a new cure album. such is life (and the record industry).p >> I went to the London gig a few weeks ago and it looked pretty final. Just what they played, and the way RS was. Also sales are not what they were. prsonally I hope he does quit now. It'd be good if he did a Mark Hollis on us.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:30:11 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: U2's Wire Steve, Frankly, they were doing the same in the bar at Wolverhampton Poly in November 1980, in front of 200 students, when I first saw them. Mark << And man, were they loud! The Pallidium held, oh maybe 3000, but they were already playing for the masses. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:38:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock I agree with everything you said,except that my hair wasn't Robert Smith'd back then,i had the hair parted on the side with it hanging over in your face a little,can't think of someone to compare it to though, maybe the Fleshtones singer,but not to his extent. Now I'm bald,just about, with a pony tail,so i guess i sort of have a mullet too. Thinkin bout shavin the whole lot of it off,just need bigger balls i guess. I wasn't to into the Southern Death Cult to much either,but i did have thier live Dbl album,listened to it a few times back then.Sex Gang Children had a song out that i think was early in thier career,but aftrer that i didn't care for much of thier stuff. Yeah,Bauhaus(seen in 83/Detroit/Another tory),Tones on Tail,Sisters were good. Can't remember the others bands right now,buti think they have been mentioned here before. Wheb i seen Bauhaus,i went with two older friends(i was 17). I was woprried about getting into the club,but luckly i looked old for my age and wasn't a problem after all. They started with Third Uncle ,which i loved. Then i think Spy in the Cab played. About the 5th song one of my friends came up to me and said we have to go,my other friend had chugged a bunch of Peppermint Schnapps(clear) or something and i guess he was to drunk to stay,but he seemed to look alright when i had seen him wondering about the club,so we went out the door and as soon as we got to the steps ,my drunk friend fell foward and grabbbed the light poll and swung around it pretty fast and almost fell down or maybe he did fall down. I was pissed,i was so looking foward to seeing Bauhaus. I even asked if my nondrunk friend could take him home and come back and get me,but no way. So,i seen Bauhaus,but only for 5 songs and wasted 12 bucks,which at the time seemed like a fair amount of money to me,at least for a concert. Sorry for the poor typing and grammer,i get typing and don't bother to check it. Rickck - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Paul, > > So no room for Bela Lugosi's dead, or Staircase (Mystery) or Release > the Bats > eh? > Never liked those Cult/Sex Gang bands but loved Bauhaus and the > Birthday > Party....were ToH goth? > > My 1982-84 hair could best be described as "a Robert Smith". Now that > applies > more to my physique. > > Mark > > for the record , goth top ten ; > > 1. uk decay ; stagestruck > 2. sisters ; adrenochrome > 3. march violets ; undertow 4. sex gang children ; killer k 5. > > southern death cult ; moya > 6. play dead ; gaze > 7. bauhaus ; dark entries > 8. theatre of hate ; legion > 9. danse society ; somewhere > 10. furyo ; cavalcade > > i think from the above you may just guess what my hair looked like in > 82-84. > i still think some of the early goth stuff has a great stoogey punky > feel , > it went crap when all the mission/all about eve/dippy hippy stuff > came along. > but most of the above bands had their monments.p __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:41:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: Re[5?]: goth rock Anyone ever heard of a band called "I'm So Hollow". I had one of thier albums,might have been thier only on for all i know of them. I liked them back then(83/84),but can't really remember thier music very clearly anymore. Rick - --- tube disaster wrote: > > > >>after the first 2 albums i went off the cure. all that morbid stuff > seemed > a bit forced (nice middle class lads peddling doom and gloom?) << > > Whereas the Sisters, Bauhaus et al. were all working-class vampires? > Oh, my > .... > > >>, the commercial stuff was a bit twee and then he seems to have > re-written > the same few songs repeatedly for about the last ten years. but i > suspect a > few here would disagree with that bigtime , ha ha.<< > > The commercial stuff was mostly fine with me, but the last 10 years > are so > have been markedly fallow, with the exception of a couple of songs. > > Dan > > > > i have this vision of rob as a nice normal guy getting into a role > every > couple of years to recharge his bank balance. but then i am a bit > cynical.p > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock > Author: MIME:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net at INTERNET > Date: 7/14/00 10:42 AM > > > Depends on your definition of "goth," I know, but what about any > number of > Red Lorry Yellow Lorry singles, a la Monkeys on Juice, Walking on > Your > Hands, etc? Not to mention the Cure's A Strange Day & One Hundred > Years, > among others. And of course, from the US contingent, lots of stuff > off > Kommunity FK's 2 albums ... > > Finally off to bed, dammit, > > > >for the record , goth top ten ; > > > >1. uk decay ; stagestruck > >2. sisters ; adrenochrome > >3. march violets ; undertow 4. sex gang children ; killer k > 5. > southern death cult ; moya > >6. play dead ; gaze > >7. bauhaus ; dark entries > >8. theatre of hate ; legion > >9. danse society ; somewhere > >10. furyo ; cavalcade > > > >i think from the above you may just guess what my hair looked like > in > 82-84. i still think some of the early goth stuff has a great stoogey > punky > feel , it went crap when all the mission/all about eve/dippy hippy > stuff > came along. but most of the above bands had their monments.p > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:50:50 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock Rick, << I agree with everything you said,except that my hair wasn't Robert Smith'd back then,i had the hair parted on the side with it hanging over in your face a little,can't think of someone to compare it to though, maybe the Fleshtones singer,but not to his extent.<< Phil Oakey from the Human League perhaps? The inventor of the 'one-eyed haircut' >>Now I'm bald,just about, with a pony tail,so i guess i sort of have a mullet too. Thinkin bout shavin the whole lot of it off,just need bigger balls i guess. >> In your position it's the only dignified thing to do. You could grow it long on one side and plaster it over the top of your head with gel. (Known as a 'Bobby Charlton' here after a famnous footballer who had the same stylish haircut!) >>Yeah,Bauhaus(seen in 83/Detroit/Another tory),Tones on Tail,Sisters were good. Can't remember the others bands right now,buti think they have been mentioned here before. Wheb i seen Bauhaus,i went with two older friends(i was 17). I was woprried about getting into the club,but luckly i looked old for my age and wasn't a problem after all. They started with Third Uncle ,which i loved. Then i think Spy in the Cab played. About the 5th song one of my friends came up to me and said we have to go,my other friend had chugged a bunch of Peppermint Schnapps(clear) or something and i guess he was to drunk to stay,but he seemed to look alright when i had seen him wondering about the club,so we went out the door and as soon as we got to the steps ,my drunk friend fell foward and grabbbed the light poll and swung around it pretty fast and almost fell down or maybe he did fall down. I was pissed,i was so looking foward to seeing Bauhaus. I even asked if my nondrunk friend could take him home and come back and get me,but no way. So,i seen Bauhaus,but only for 5 songs and wasted 12 bucks,which at the time seemed like a fair amount of money to me,at least for a concert.<< I saw them in late 1980 in a small club (Dudley JB's - still going today!) and they were stunning. But I saw them again the next year (supported by the Birthday Party and Subway Sect - in tuxedo cabaret mode) and the BP blew them away .... Saw the reunion tour a couple of years ago...very entertaining greatest hits show - though the well of creativity is obviously dry. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:52:15 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[5?]: goth rock Rick, >>Anyone ever heard of a band called "I'm So Hollow". I had one of thier albums,might have been thier only on for all i know of them. I liked them back then(83/84),but can't really remember thier music very clearly anymore.<< Yep, think I have a few things of theirs somewhere. Division 2 Sheffield band (I think). OK but of their time.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:54:21 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Golden Earring Anybody follow Golden Earring? They're really old, but I think they're still together. - -Carl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:02:13 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock Peter Zeremba? Or more like Prince during the Revolution period? - -Carl BTW, I think that 154 is very goth. > From: Creatured > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:38:01 -0700 (PDT) > To: MarkBursa@aol.com, paul.rabjohn@ssab.com, idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Re[2]: goth rock > > I agree with everything you said,except that my hair wasn't Robert > Smith'd back then,i had the hair parted on the side with it hanging > over in your face a little,can't think of someone to compare it to > though, maybe the Fleshtones singer,but not to his extent. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 03:22:47 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: Malkas Project Yes it is quite a challenge for me too. I'm a strictly audio person myself (the visual side of things I tend to leave to a good friend who runs his own design outfit) but although I suspect there a few people on this list who are Artists (or just piss artists!) I assume Malka doesn't want any of us to come up with a fine-art masterpiece. I suppose we should all use whatever means we have at our disposal to express visually what the hell we are doing here at Idealcopy! Why do we read this stiuff? Why do we care what Tim Robinson thinks about Graham Lewis' Mullet or what Paul Rabjon thinks of Killing Joke or what Katherine Pouliot had for breakfast or just what does Graeme Rowland have in that plastic carrier bag he hawks around Wire's UK gigs? From the tone of Malka's e-mail I think a scribble on a napkin will be just as acceptable as an elaborate sculpture...as long as its no bigger than a CD! I'd be really interested myself to see what other listees submit. Perhaps our friends at Wireviews should set up a page where we can see each others items? This is a really interesting project and I know that there are floating listees who don't contribute very often who are not from either Chicago or England and who should be encouraged to submit something, as Malka obviously wants to explore the funny little way in which all we 100 or so disparate individuals from all over the modem-connected world are inextricably linked by our love for the Wire thing. Over to you listees. Katherine Pouliot wrote: > I'll finally be able to put all my husband's art and 3d programs to good > use! I'll think of something. But I'm less visually inclined than a lot of > people, have to think about what that would be for me. May take a while! > > K > > From: Tim Robinson > > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:11:47 +0100 > > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > > Subject: Malkas Project > > > > Ah thats more like it! > > What will everyone send to Malka? > > > > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #217 *******************************