From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #200 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, June 28 2000 Volume 03 : Number 200 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE mobile phone virus+CDpogger [Alan Gray ] armchair electronica? [sam charrington ] armchair electronica? [sam charrington ] Re[2]: the Cure [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] RE: Re[2]: the Cure ["giluz" ] Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) [Mark Short ] Re: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Killing Joke [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: Killing Joke [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] RE: Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) ["giluz" ] Re: Killing Joke [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: Killing Joke [Creatured ] Re: Killing Joke [Creatured ] Re[2]: Killing Joke [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re[2]: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... [paul.rabjohn@ssab.co] RE: Neu! ["giluz" ] Re: Neu! [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: Killing Joke [Carl Archer ] Re: Neu! [Luke the Drifter ] Re: Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) [Mark Short ] Re We are the sheep [Alan Gray ] RE: Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) ["giluz" ] Re: Re We are the sheep [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] RE: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... ["giluz" ] RE: Neu! ["stephen graziano" ] Re[4]: Killing Joke [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[4]: Killing Joke ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: Killing Joke [fernando ] Re: Killing Joke ["tube disaster" ] Re: Re[2]: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... ["tube disaster" ] Re: Killing Joke [Barry Braxton ] Re: Killing Joke / The Day I met Jaz Coleman ["ian barrett" ] Re: RE mobile phone virus+CDpogger ["lucifersam" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:53:20 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: RE mobile phone virus+CDpogger I thought the mobile phone virus had spread to such an extent that nearly everyone has a mobile phone these days. I've avoided getting one up to now, but now I realise that you can programme in your own choice of tunes for when they ring I will have to get one for this reason. Alan PS The person who pogged my Moloko CD ignored all the other CDs in my drawer which included the Idealcopy and the RFH CD. On the basis of musical taste I have assembled a character profile of the cretin responsible and narrowed it down to two possible suspects. When I go home tonight I will don a deerstalker, take loads of opium and play the violin for an hour. I might then be able to make a citizens arrest tomorrow but I doubt it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 06:15:17 -0400 (EDT) From: sam charrington Subject: armchair electronica? my friend dave saw system 7 at glastonbury last year and had to leave before the end because he was dancing so hard he feared for his health and he couldn't just stand there and watch so he just had to go... ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 06:15:08 -0400 (EDT) From: sam charrington Subject: armchair electronica? my friend dave saw system 7 at glastonbury last year and had to leave before the end because he was dancing so hard he feared for his health and he couldn't just stand there and watch so he just had to go... ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:19:00 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: the Cure I never thought of the French as advocates of "dark music" before (except perhaps Gong in the 70's?). It's very intriguing, if true. Does anyone have any other examples for this? giluz >>>>> i think they really go for their big ballads , pj harvey is really big out there. i saw an interview and she was saying how in the uk folks want her to play fast songs at gigs whereas in france they love the slow stuff. on that principle i'd guess suede might well be big over there? p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:32:32 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[2]: the Cure > I never thought of the French as advocates of "dark music" before > (except perhaps Gong in the 70's?). It's very intriguing, if > true. Does anyone have any other examples for this? > > giluz > >>>>> i think they really go for their big ballads , pj harvey is > really big out there. i saw an interview and she was saying how > in the uk folks want her to play fast songs at gigs whereas in > france they love the slow stuff. on that principle i'd guess > suede might well be big over there? p > Yeah, probably. Unfortunately it's the same in Israel, and Suede are very popular here as well. God - I hate them! giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:38:34 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > > I never thought of the French as advocates of "dark music" before (except perhaps Gong in the 70's?). It's very intriguing, if true. Does anyone have any other examples for this? Magma were (are?) pretty dark, and French. I read somewhere that Kraftwerk's biggest market was France. Not sure whether I'd describe Kraftwerk as dark. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:42:01 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... ...The Chords were also brilliant live. I think the reason these groups came to the fore was that by late 1978, punk was dissapearing up it's own arse, what with all those stupid mowhawk wankers, who totally missed the point. >>>> i'll add some comment here about how i remember it. by maybe early 79 a lot of the early movers had split or lost it (pistols , clash , damned etc). also the arse end bandwagon boys had thankfully pissed off (eater , drones , cortinas and their ilk). but the post-punk scene was fabulous ; in 79 you had wire/joy div/go4/cure/pil and numerous others pushing the envelope places it had never been before ; i think to say the punk scene was "disappearing up it s own arse" is not seeing it as it was. i look back at that as a brilliant year. to me the mod stuff that then arrived didn't get near the level of the post-punk stuff being put out ,wasn't it just inferior versions of the jam (remember weller recoiling in horror and starting to claim the jam were a punk band at that point?). i think my basic point is that you could do a lot better in 79/80 than a secret affair album. nobody had a mohawk in 78. in about 80/81 punk fractured into the k.joke/bauhaus/toh/ukdk (pre-goth i guess) bands and the exploited/chron gen/anti pasti/oi oi oi lads. the latter did nothing for me , though maybe i should have gone for that mohawk while i had enough hair for it.... here endeth the history lesson.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:54:08 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Killing Joke Talking of Killing Joke (well the name cropped up). I have the following: Nighttime - excellent Brighter Than A 1000 Suns - even better Killing Joke - OK Outside The Gate - undecided after 1 play Any suggestions for my next purchase? Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:02:19 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Killing Joke the first kj album just "ok". about 200 bands have based a career on that one , mate ! i don't think many bands ever have whipped up an intensity like the first 2 joke albums. go try "what's this for" (2nd album) and give that first album a few more listens. try to find some early bootlegs and avoid "firdances" like the plague.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Killing Joke Author: MIME:Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk at INTERNET Date: 28/06/2000 13:55 Talking of Killing Joke (well the name cropped up). I have the following: Nighttime - excellent Brighter Than A 1000 Suns - even better Killing Joke - OK Outside The Gate - undecided after 1 play Any suggestions for my next purchase? Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:11:45 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) > Magma were (are?) pretty dark, and French. > Who were they? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:08:29 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: Killing Joke I like the 1st album. I just like "Brighter" more. Thanks anyway for the tip. ;-) Chris. paul.rabjohn@ssab.com on 28/06/2000 14:02:19 To: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS cc: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: Killing Joke the first kj album just "ok". about 200 bands have based a career on that one , mate ! i don't think many bands ever have whipped up an intensity like the first 2 joke albums. go try "what's this for" (2nd album) and give that first album a few more listens. try to find some early bootlegs and avoid "firdances" like the plague.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Killing Joke Author: MIME:Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk at INTERNET Date: 28/06/2000 13:55 Talking of Killing Joke (well the name cropped up). I have the following: Nighttime - excellent Brighter Than A 1000 Suns - even better Killing Joke - OK Outside The Gate - undecided after 1 play Any suggestions for my next purchase? Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 05:27:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: Re: Killing Joke YES,I AGREE GET THE EARLY ALBUMS 1ST, WHAT'S THIS FOR..,FIRE DANCES (I LIKED IT WHEN I WAS 16/17). HAVEN'T HEARD FIRE DANCES IN YEARS,but i remember liking some of it at least,but it is different than the first two. Didn't they lose they Keys/Synth on this record? I just got a couple early Peel Sessions and Live shows that rock! Creatured - --- paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > the first kj album just "ok". about 200 bands have based a career on > that one , mate ! i don't think many bands ever have whipped up an > intensity like the first 2 joke albums. go try "what's this for" (2nd > album) and give that first album a few more listens. try to find some > early bootlegs and avoid "firdances" like the plague.p > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Killing Joke > Author: MIME:Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk at INTERNET > Date: 28/06/2000 13:55 > > > Talking of Killing Joke (well the name cropped up). I have the > following: > > Nighttime - excellent > Brighter Than A 1000 Suns - even better Killing Joke - OK > Outside The Gate - undecided after 1 play > > Any suggestions for my next purchase? > > Chris. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 05:27:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: Re: Killing Joke YES,I AGREE GET THE EARLY ALBUMS 1ST, WHAT'S THIS FOR..,FIRE DANCES (I LIKED IT WHEN I WAS 16/17). HAVEN'T HEARD FIRE DANCES IN YEARS,but i remember liking some of it at least,but it is different than the first two. Didn't they lose they Keys/Synth on this record? I just got a couple early Peel Sessions and Live shows that rock! Creatured - --- paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > the first kj album just "ok". about 200 bands have based a career on > that one , mate ! i don't think many bands ever have whipped up an > intensity like the first 2 joke albums. go try "what's this for" (2nd > album) and give that first album a few more listens. try to find some > early bootlegs and avoid "firdances" like the plague.p > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Killing Joke > Author: MIME:Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk at INTERNET > Date: 28/06/2000 13:55 > > > Talking of Killing Joke (well the name cropped up). I have the > following: > > Nighttime - excellent > Brighter Than A 1000 Suns - even better Killing Joke - OK > Outside The Gate - undecided after 1 play > > Any suggestions for my next purchase? > > Chris. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:04:33 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Killing Joke YES,I AGREE GET THE EARLY ALBUMS 1ST, WHAT'S THIS FOR..,FIRE DANCES (I LIKED IT WHEN I WAS 16/17). HAVEN'T HEARD FIRE DANCES IN YEARS,but i remember liking some of it at least,but it is different than the first two. Didn't they lose they Keys/Synth on this record? I just got a couple early Peel Sessions and Live shows that rock! Creatured >>>>> the band split briefly between 3rd and 4th albums when half of them decided the world was going to end and went to iceland to wait for it to happen. when it didn't , they came back and treated us to firedances. it was the bassist (youth) who left at this point , deciding that becoming a millionaire producer to the likes of kylie , bananarama and kate bush was in fact a better career move. and who can blame him.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:07:28 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... Paul, Pretty much how I remember it - that 79-82 period was just so exciting. I would add that in among the 79 primordial soup you had people like the Specials fusing punk with reggae, which was pretty exciting then (though Ska is pretty cliched now). What I hated was the classification that started then - I always though punk was a call to open-mindedness, and therefore it was acceptable to enjoy, say, Cabaret Voltaire, Echo and the Bunnymen and the Beat in equal measure. I guess I was taking a lot of cues from John Peel, whose shows back then were unmissable. Disagree about the Clash - I though they were at the peak of their powers about the time of London Calling - while some of the album has dated, it was still a hell of a record back then, covering so much ground. I remember seeing some of the early punk bands like 999 and Chelsea (that I had missed first time round) in about 1980 - and even then they sounded astonishingly dated. 999 had relased a new LP and were trying to get away from 'punk'. After about 2 songs they went back to playing the hits. Oi and even the Crass/Discharge stuff just left me cold. You could do better than Secret Affair in 79/80 - though you could also do worse. Mark << >>>> i'll add some comment here about how i remember it. by maybe early 79 a lot of the early movers had split or lost it (pistols , clash , damned etc). also the arse end bandwagon boys had thankfully pissed off (eater , drones , cortinas and their ilk). but the post-punk scene was fabulous ; in 79 you had wire/joy div/go4/cure/pil and numerous others pushing the envelope places it had never been before ; i think to say the punk scene was "disappearing up it s own arse" is not seeing it as it was. i look back at that as a brilliant year. to me the mod stuff that then arrived didn't get near the level of the post-punk stuff being put out ,wasn't it just inferior versions of the jam (remember weller recoiling in horror and starting to claim the jam were a punk band at that point?). i think my basic point is that you could do a lot better in 79/80 than a secret affair album. nobody had a mohawk in 78. in about 80/81 punk fractured into the k.joke/bauhaus/toh/ukdk (pre-goth i guess) bands and the exploited/chron gen/anti pasti/oi oi oi lads. the latter did nothing for me , though maybe i should have gone for that mohawk while i had enough hair for it.... here endeth the history lesson.p >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:36:32 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... What I hated was the classification that started then - I always though punk was a call to open-mindedness, and therefore it was acceptable to enjoy, say, Cabaret Voltaire, Echo and the Bunnymen and the Beat in equal measure. I guess I was taking a lot of cues from John Peel, whose shows back then were unmissable. >>>>> funny how now all kids here seem to dress the same whereas when i was at school it was loads of little tribes and it was sooo obvious which one you were in. Disagree about the Clash - I though they were at the peak of their powers about the time of London Calling - while some of the album has dated, it was still a hell of a record back then, covering so much ground. >>>>> no , sorry , to me it was like an old rock n roll album then whereas i was looking for people taking the punk idea further. i was gutted by london calling , it meant nothing to me and i loved the band before that. i'd be less harsh now but still i think its the point when they turned into a mega rock band and i lost interest. I remember seeing some of the early punk bands like 999 and Chelsea (that I had missed first time round) in about 1980 - and even then they sounded astonishingly dated. 999 had relased a new LP and were trying to get away from 'punk'. After about 2 songs they went back to playing the hits. Oi and even the Crass/Discharge stuff just left me cold. You could do better than Secret Affair in 79/80 - though you could also do worse. Mark >>>>> i liked some of the more tuneful crassite stuff. but 999/chelsea were pub acts really who just got lucky when every band in town was getting deals. i would struggle to say who was worse ; secret affair or chelsea , 999 or squire. best all avoided really i think.p < Forward item: - ---------------------------------- Forwarded ---------------------------------- From: Paul Rabjohn at ssab_droitwich_gb Date: 00/06/28 14:25 To: MIME:MarkBursa@aol.com at INTERNET Subject: Re[2]: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:06:04 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Neu! I've contacted a dealer who has the following Neu! CD's: "S/T", "2", & "'75". I kinda assume "2" is the 2nd album. Is "S/T" the 1st then? giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: Jade Hubertz [mailto:jhubertz@netdirect.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 3:56 PM > To: giluz > Subject: Re: Neu! > > > Hi Gil- > > Thanks for writing! Yes, I have all 3 Neu! CD's ("S/T", "2", "'75") in > stock @ $15.50 each. If you have them sent without jewelcases the > postage will be $5 and they'll arrive superfast (Global Priority mail > delivers to Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Haifa - I'm assuming you live in one > of those cities). I accept credit cards and I'll send you a catalog > when I get some new ones printed. > > All the best, > Jade > > giluz wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > A member of the Wire mailing list recommended you to me as "a great > > mailorder for psych/prog/kraut stuff". Basically I'm looking for CD's by > > Neu!, the first one preferably. Do you have a catalogue where I > can see what > > other stuff you've got? Do you make deliveries to Israel > (that's where I'm > > from)? Do you accept credit card payments? > > > > Cheers, > > Gil Luz > > giluz@nettalk.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:22:24 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Neu! Giluz, >>I've contacted a dealer who has the following Neu! CD's: "S/T", "2", & "'75". I kinda assume "2" is the 2nd album. Is "S/T" the 1st then?<< I would imagine it means Same Title, in which case, yes. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:28:47 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: Re[2]: Killing Joke "What's This For" -absolutely. - -Carl > From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com > Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:04:33 +0100 > To: idealcopy@smoe.org, creature48212@yahoo.com > Subject: Re[2]: Killing Joke > > > > > > > YES,I AGREE GET THE EARLY ALBUMS 1ST, WHAT'S THIS FOR..,FIRE DANCES (I LIKED > IT WHEN I WAS 16/17). HAVEN'T HEARD FIRE DANCES IN YEARS,but i remember liking > some of it at least,but it is different than the first > two. Didn't they lose they Keys/Synth on this record? I just got a couple > early Peel Sessions and Live shows that rock! > Creatured > > >>>>>> the band split briefly between 3rd and 4th albums when half of them >>>>>> decided the world was going to end and went to iceland to wait for it to >>>>>> happen. when it didn't , they came back and treated us to firedances. it >>>>>> was the bassist (youth) who left at this point , deciding that becoming a >>>>>> millionaire producer to the likes of kylie , bananarama and kate bush was >>>>>> in fact a better career move. and who can blame him.p > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:35:53 -0700 From: Luke the Drifter Subject: Re: Neu! Any of the first 3 Neu! albums are almost "essential." Just a word of warning - the cd's out there on the Germanofon label are counterfeit bootlegs, and not very good sounding ones at that. The official reissues will be out a little later this year. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:40:14 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) giluz wrote: > > > Magma were (are?) pretty dark, and French. > > > > Who were they? They were a prog rock outfit. If memory serves, their albums were all linked by the extended concept of some imaginary world/mythology. Although they had quite a big line-up (eg two drummers), they were very much the product of their leader, Cristian Vander. A few years ago, the snooker player Steve Davis paid fof them to come over to the UK from France to do a gig. > giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:52:52 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: Re We are the sheep I have to say that I began to loose interest in the Clash when London Calling was released. 999 were chancers. I agree that there was so much good music around at the time of the mod thing that I wasn't interested in it. Also if you've always had motorbikes its hard to see the attraction of a scooter and this could be an analogy for the relative merits of the music. and The Specials played three times in Bournemouth within a few weeks during the Summer that gangsters came out, I think the single was out before the last gig but they were out of the blue. Fantastic then. (Elvis Costello was producing for them or involved,I remember I trod on his toe in the crowd and the wincing sound,well I've heard similar noises on his aznavore effort.) Alan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:06:16 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) > They were a prog rock outfit. If memory serves, their albums were > all linked by > the extended concept of some imaginary world/mythology. Although > they had quite > a big line-up (eg two drummers), they were very much the product of their > leader, Cristian Vander. > > A few years ago, the snooker player Steve Davis paid fof them to > come over to > the UK from France to do a gig. > Er.. What about the dark stuff? I mean, are they worth a listen, or are they just the typical pretentious (here I go again - love that word), overblown, pseudo-technical prog rock band? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:21:47 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Re We are the sheep (Elvis Costello was producing for them or involved,I remember I trod on his toe in the crowd and the wincing sound,well I've heard similar noises on his aznavore effort.) Alan >>>> if you're a fan of horrible whining i would recommend "the juliet letters" , makes "she" sound like a true costello classic.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:46:43 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... > Pretty much how I remember it - that 79-82 period was just so exciting. I > would add that in among the 79 primordial soup you had people like the > Specials fusing punk with reggae, which was pretty exciting then > (though Ska > is pretty cliched now). > > What I hated was the classification that started then - I always > though punk > was a call to open-mindedness, and therefore it was acceptable to > enjoy, say, > Cabaret Voltaire, Echo and the Bunnymen and the Beat in equal measure. I > guess I was taking a lot of cues from John Peel, whose shows back > then were > unmissable. I always thought that this was punk was all about: that spirit of freshness and that anything's possible and everything is new (it doesn't necessarily mean that everything was new, but that's what the feeling was all about). That's why I think that 79-82 was the most exciting period in popular music since the 60's until, maybe the 90's electronics revolution. Classification - well, everyone likes to classify and organise - it's human nature. But most classifications are incorrect, especially when it comes to popular music. Were Wire true punksters or not? Who cares, they're great. That's what really disapointed me in that Dancing In The Streets BBC series. They had an episode on punk that was so restricted by the label "PUNK" that they just missed that whole spirit of the times thing. They did reflect on it briefly, but narrowed it down to just the fusion of punk and reggae. It didn't have that 'anything goes' feeling you get from listening to albums made at that time. I was really happy when the 90's came and all the genres and sub-genres just collapsed and started mingling between themselves, just to create a new classification system. I think this is the time when things like that might happen again. It's funny, but the Wire gig was the trigger that made me realise that the electronic revolution's over, and that something new might be starting to happen. I'm not talking about something necessarily made by Wire themselves, but that's the feeling I got out of this "retro gig" which sounded so contemporary and not retro when it shouldn't. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:48:21 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: RE: Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) Don't forget Heldon and Richard Pinhas!! - Steve G >From: "giluz" >To: "IdealCopy" >Subject: RE: Dark Music (was Re: the Cure) >Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:11:45 +0200 > > > Magma were (are?) pretty dark, and French. > > > >Who were they? >giluz ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:50:50 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Killing Joke If you got "Change" do you really need anything else? cepting o'course the Orb remix?? - Steve G. >From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com >To: idealcopy@smoe.org, creature48212@yahoo.com >Subject: Re[2]: Killing Joke >Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:04:33 +0100 > > > > > > >YES,I AGREE GET THE EARLY ALBUMS 1ST, WHAT'S THIS FOR..,FIRE DANCES (I >LIKED IT WHEN I WAS 16/17). HAVEN'T HEARD FIRE DANCES IN YEARS,but i >remember liking some of it at least,but it is different than the first >two. Didn't they lose they Keys/Synth on this record? I just got a >couple early Peel Sessions and Live shows that rock! >Creatured > > > >>>>> the band split briefly between 3rd and 4th albums when half of them >decided the world was going to end and went to iceland to wait for it to >happen. when it didn't , they came back and treated us to firedances. it >was the bassist (youth) who left at this point , deciding that becoming a >millionaire producer to the likes of kylie , bananarama and kate bush was >in fact a better career move. and who can blame him.p > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:54:23 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: RE: Neu! Get em, get em all bud!!! But be aware that 2 is only half an album - the Bside is varispeed recordings of other stuff, great nonetheless, who said Krock had no sense of humor!!! >From: "giluz" >To: "IdealCopy" >Subject: RE: Neu! >Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:06:04 +0200 > >I've contacted a dealer who has the following Neu! CD's: "S/T", "2", & >"'75". I kinda assume "2" is the 2nd album. Is "S/T" the 1st then? > >giluz > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jade Hubertz [mailto:jhubertz@netdirect.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 3:56 PM > > To: giluz > > Subject: Re: Neu! > > > > > > Hi Gil- > > > > Thanks for writing! Yes, I have all 3 Neu! CD's ("S/T", "2", "'75") in > > stock @ $15.50 each. If you have them sent without jewelcases the > > postage will be $5 and they'll arrive superfast (Global Priority mail > > delivers to Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Haifa - I'm assuming you live in one > > of those cities). I accept credit cards and I'll send you a catalog > > when I get some new ones printed. > > > > All the best, > > Jade > > > > giluz wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > A member of the Wire mailing list recommended you to me as "a great > > > mailorder for psych/prog/kraut stuff". Basically I'm looking for CD's >by > > > Neu!, the first one preferably. Do you have a catalogue where I > > can see what > > > other stuff you've got? Do you make deliveries to Israel > > (that's where I'm > > > from)? Do you accept credit card payments? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Gil Luz > > > giluz@nettalk.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:11:11 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: Killing Joke must admit i ignored their comeback ; i saw some film of them at a festival and they were still cranking out wardance/psyche/requiem etc etc. without a lot of enthusiasm. were the records any good? i think that first album plus the debut single is the really essential stuff. the rest of the youth records are worth having but in a lot of ways i think they were a band who defined themselves totally on the first album and spent the rest of their career making subtle changes too it ( oooh , there's a few that applies too , isn't there.....)p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Killing Joke Author: MIME:sjgraziano@hotmail.com at INTERNET Date: 28/06/2000 17:53 If you got "Change" do you really need anything else? cepting o'course the Orb remix?? - Steve G. >From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com >To: idealcopy@smoe.org, creature48212@yahoo.com >Subject: Re[2]: Killing Joke >Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:04:33 +0100 > > > > > > >YES,I AGREE GET THE EARLY ALBUMS 1ST, WHAT'S THIS FOR..,FIRE DANCES (I >LIKED IT WHEN I WAS 16/17). HAVEN'T HEARD FIRE DANCES IN YEARS,but i >remember liking some of it at least,but it is different than the first >two. Didn't they lose they Keys/Synth on this record? I just got a >couple early Peel Sessions and Live shows that rock! >Creatured > > > >>>>> the band split briefly between 3rd and 4th albums when half of them >decided the world was going to end and went to iceland to wait for it to >happen. when it didn't , they came back and treated us to firedances. it >was the bassist (youth) who left at this point , deciding that becoming a >millionaire producer to the likes of kylie , bananarama and kate bush was >in fact a better career move. and who can blame him.p > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:33:08 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: Re[4]: Killing Joke Re KJ....I have only the debut, Nightime and a cd comp called "Laugh, I nearly bought one"...My main recollection of them was seeing Jaz Coleman singing Nightime on "The Tube" when I was eating me tea when I was about 16...I nearly shat myself....very intense. Later I went to see them at the International 2 in Manchester, but had to leave during the second song because my then girlfriend vomited all over me. That's the kind of effect they had ;-) Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:33:50 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: Killing Joke I would also agree that What This Is For...? and the first album are essential... I also thought that the Pandemonioum album was quite good -- cynically a rework of the first two album's intensity, and even Democrazy was not bad.... and if you got Outside the Gate... well, I think everything else is better than that! :o) - -fernando At 04:54 AM 6/28/00, Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk wrote: >Talking of Killing Joke (well the name cropped up). I have the following: > >Nighttime - excellent >Brighter Than A 1000 Suns - even better >Killing Joke - OK >Outside The Gate - undecided after 1 play > >Any suggestions for my next purchase? > >Chris. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:04:23 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Killing Joke Let me add my vote for What's This For as well. I owned it at least a year before I ever heard the the debut, which may be why it's my favorite of theirs (apropos of nothing, the same applies to my ranking Television's Adventure over Marquee Moon). Of the comeback LPs, I agree with Fernando's assessments of Pandemonium & Democracy ... pretty decent, all things considered. Dan >I would also agree that What This Is For...? and the first album are >essential... I also thought that the Pandemonioum album was quite good -- >cynically a rework of the first two album's intensity, and even Democrazy >was not bad.... and if you got Outside the Gate... well, I think everything >else is better than that! :o) > >-fernando > >At 04:54 AM 6/28/00, Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk wrote: > > > >>Talking of Killing Joke (well the name cropped up). I have the following: >> >>Nighttime - excellent >>Brighter Than A 1000 Suns - even better >>Killing Joke - OK >>Outside The Gate - undecided after 1 play >> >>Any suggestions for my next purchase? >> >>Chris. >> > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:22:00 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... > >What I hated was the classification that started then - I always though punk was a call to open-mindedness, and therefore it was acceptable to enjoy, say, Cabaret Voltaire, Echo and the Bunnymen and the Beat in equal measure. I guess I was taking a lot of cues from John Peel, whose shows back then were unmissable. > >>>>>> funny how now all kids here seem to dress the same whereas when i was at school it was loads of little tribes and it was sooo obvious which one you were in. > >Disagree about the Clash - I though they were at the peak of their powers about the time of London Calling - while some of the album has dated, it was still a hell of a record back then, covering so much ground. > >>>>>> no , sorry , to me it was like an old rock n roll album then whereas i was looking for people taking the punk idea further. i was gutted by london calling , it meant nothing to me and i loved the band before that. i'd be less harsh now but still i think its the point when they turned into a mega rock band and i lost interest.<< I've gotten into near-fistfights (cyber-version) over London Calling on at least 3 lists (punk77, Big Takeover, Buzzcocks) in the last few weeks, but count me in the ranks of those who found it a shocking downturn for the band. Looking back, it was almost certainly the first instance in my then-young life in which I felt personally *betrayed* by a band (esp. the 2nd disc -- the first one holds up pretty well, actually) ... so much so that I never ever bought anything else of theirs new besides reissues (i.e. Black Market Clash & the 1977 Revisited cassette). The only reason I own Combat Rock & Cut the Crap is because a friend who was culling her collection sent them to me free back in '90. I didn't bother picking up Sandinista (used) till about 3 years after that & still haven't listened to the entire thing. Utterly, pathetically sad. As I've mentioned elsewhere, if any confirmation of London Calling's thorough mediocrity were needed, just contemplate the fact that *Rolling Stone* named it album of the '80s (never mind that I think it came out in the UK the final week of '79). Talk about your kisses of death ... Dan > >I remember seeing some of the early punk bands like 999 and Chelsea (that I had missed first time round) in about 1980 - and even then they sounded astonishingly dated. 999 had relased a new LP and were trying to get away from 'punk'. After about 2 songs they went back to playing the hits. Oi and even the Crass/Discharge stuff just left me cold. You could do better than Secret Affair in 79/80 - though you could also do worse. > >Mark >>>>>> i liked some of the more tuneful crassite stuff. but 999/chelsea were pub acts really who just got lucky when every band in town was getting deals. i would struggle to say who was worse ; secret affair or chelsea , 999 or squire. best all avoided really i think.p >< > >Forward item: >---------------------------------- Forwarded ---------------------------------- >From: Paul Rabjohn at ssab_droitwich_gb >Date: 00/06/28 14:25 >To: MIME:MarkBursa@aol.com at INTERNET >Subject: Re[2]: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:20:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Barry Braxton Subject: Re: Killing Joke Firedances is a complex album with some of Geordie's best contrapuntal guitar work not to mention tone as this was pretty much the first album where he had solidified his trademark sound. To avoid this album would be truly a shame. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:42:28 +0100 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: Killing Joke / The Day I met Jaz Coleman I'll put my own vote in for Revelations. What came after tended to be on a downward quality curve. It maybe picked up again, but if so I'd stopped listening. I met Jaz Coleman once, pre gig at Leeds in 1983. I tried to sell him a fanzine (for that is what I was doing). "Are you a fucking capitalist?" he asks. "Are you a fucking capitalist," I ask back "I've just bought a ticket for your gig." "Nah, it's the promoters man." Anyhow, after a natter, he blags a free one off me on the grounds that it's Geordie's birthday. Wire link - the mag had a decent interview with Colin Newman just after 4AD had dropped him - ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Braxton To: Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 10:20 PM Subject: Re: Killing Joke > Firedances is a complex album with some of Geordie's best contrapuntal > guitar work not to mention tone as this was pretty much the first album > where he had solidified his trademark sound. To avoid this album would be > truly a shame. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:41:33 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: armchair electronica? Respect is due...... - ----- Original Message ----- From: sam charrington To: Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 11:15 AM Subject: armchair electronica? > my friend dave saw system 7 at glastonbury last year and had to leave before > the end because he was dancing so hard he feared for his health and he > couldn't just stand there and watch so he just had to go... > > > ______________________________________________ > FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com > Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:39:32 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: RE mobile phone virus+CDpogger Just stab the fucker in the back:-) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Gray To: Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 11:53 AM Subject: RE mobile phone virus+CDpogger > I thought the mobile phone virus had spread to such an extent that nearly > everyone has a mobile phone these days. > I've avoided getting one up to now, > but now I realise that > you can programme in your own choice of tunes for when they ring > I will have to get one for this reason. > Alan > PS The person who pogged my Moloko CD ignored all the other CDs in my drawer > which included the Idealcopy and the RFH CD. > On the basis of musical taste I have assembled a character profile of the cretin responsible and narrowed it > down to two possible suspects. > When I go home tonight I will don a deerstalker, take loads of opium and play the violin for an hour. > I might then be able to make a citizens arrest tomorrow but I doubt it. > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #200 *******************************