From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #198 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, June 27 2000 Volume 03 : Number 198 Today's Subjects: ----------------- best gigs / worst gigs [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Closet Mod alert!!!!-We are the Mods..etc... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: the Cure + wire + joy division + and also the trees [MarkBursa@aol.co] Re[2]: Closet Mod alert!!!!-We are the Mods..etc... [paul.rabjohn@ssab.co] swings and roundabouts [Alan Gray ] target on my back [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] cn pop songs ["MackDaddyD" ] Re: swings and roundabouts ["lucifersam" ] re ungreat live performances [Alan Gray ] RE Target on my back [Alan Gray ] Re: the Cure + wire + joy division + and also the trees [fernando ] Re: the Cure [fernando ] Re: Wire/Newman "The Sweet Songs" ["Stephen JC Sheen" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:48:11 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: best gigs / worst gigs sorry michael but i'm gonna join in too (120 emails waiting for me monday morning.......) the best clash/members/aswad (rainbow 79 , first gig) siouxsie/the cure (aylesbury 79) buzzcocks/joy division (hemel 79) adam and the ants (aylesbury 80) killing joke / uk decay (aylesbury 81) uk decay/sisters of mercy/blood & roses (klub foot 82) uk decay/sex gang children/ gene loves j (zigzag club 82) sisters of mercy (aylesbury 84) pixies/wolfgang press (bham 90) pj harvey (bham 91/92/95 , nottm 98) wire bristol 90/ nottm/rfh/garage x2 2000 huggy bear /bikini kill (b'ham 91) sex pistols/iggy (finsbury pk 96) stone roses (wolverhampton 94) and the pits tin machine (wolverhampton) - the worst pil (b'ham odeon 84) - the biggest let-down nine inch nails (bham 92) the mission (b'ham 88?) crown of thorns(86) strangelove(92) placebo (v97) killing joke (warwick uni 85) - the most boring sure i've missed a few but that's a flavour.p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:07:02 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Closet Mod alert!!!!-We are the Mods..etc... Cat, << Dont tell anyone Mark, but i went to the Mods mayday reunion @ the Forum last year. (The 'Hearts put me on the guest list) and Ian Page has turned into a right little porker ! >> Did you wear your fishtail parka and pork pie hat? Who else was on the bill? And was any of it any good? I very nearly went to the punk revival weekender in Blackpool about three years ago....everybody who was nobody as playing - 999, Slaughter & the Dogs, the Drones etc.... however I decided against. Some memories should be left alone... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:17:02 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: the Cure + wire + joy division + and also the trees Fernando, << As best as I can piece it together... from '80 to about 82, The Cure toured with And Also The Trees... unfortunately, one had a record contract and the other didn't. But, demos seem to indicate, and stories from interviews, that both bands were learning a lot from each other, though given &atT's more consistent cannon of quality albums (my opinion) and style variations, that perhaps the Cure gained the most out of the friendship... with the drums track from So This Is Silence ending up in Pornography. That said, it was confided that &atT's could never do a cover of Joy Division, as they were the "reason for being." Granted, the same is not true for the Cure, but perhaps an indirect influence, in that of JD-> &atT -> Cure. However, I think that Wire, and in particular 154, had a hand in shaping up Joy Division, and so it all comes back to Wire in some way. >> And also the Trees were Cure obsessives who did indeed support the Cure from time to time. However I think the concept of &ATT influencing the Cure is way off. One-way traffic the other way, for sure. Robert Smith claims the Pornography sound was influenced by the first Psychedelic Furs album BTW. Wire certainly influenced JD - look at the way the two bands dressed. But remember that 154 came out at almost exactly the same time (late 79) as Unknown Pleasures, so it's untrue to say the 154 album itself influenced JD's work. I've posted this before, but this is Robert Smith being interviewed recently about how Wire influenced the Cure.... "It was actually seeing Wire that gave me the idea to follow a different course, to hold out against the punk wave. At the time, it was a lot easier just to play loud and fast, and that was a good night. Everyone went home talking about you. But even then, I felt, "We're gonna go down with the ship if we do that." Seeing Wire pointed out another direction to me. I didn't even especially like Wire - still don't - but this particular performance was just earth-shattering for me. We were supporting them at this small place, like a student thing. We played pretty badly; I was drunk and it was a shambles. We did "10.15" three times and no one really noticed. Then Wire came on, and during the first song about half the audience left. It was the most intense thing I thought I'd ever see - blinding white lights shooting straight into the audience and this incredible wall of noise. But it wasn't like thrash, just ponderous noise. Then they'd stop it and do little quiet bits. I thought it was really excellent. I remember having a big row in the van with the others about it afterwards because they all thought it was shit, and I thought it was immense. That's what I wanted the Cure to do. It took about a year and a half - between going to play with the Banshees, Michael leaving the band, and Simon joining - before I got to the point where I had people around me who understood that as well. Simon got the idea of doing stuff that had lots of power but didn't have to be fast. I think that's really what the difference was. There's some medium-to slow-paced things on Three Imaginary Boys. At the time, you just didn't do that." Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:29:14 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Closet Mod alert!!!!-We are the Mods..etc... shit i forgot to put that on my all time worst gigs list. i was talked into going to that in about 97. ATV were great but the rest was an utter stack of shite ; sham 69 , gbh , the carpettes. and the crowning glory was x-ray spex without poly styrene. i walked out after 3 songs which is something i almost never do. a night of horror i had tried to erase from my memory.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Closet Mod alert!!!!-We are the Mods..etc... Author: MIME:MarkBursa@aol.com at INTERNET Date: 26/06/2000 13:14 Cat, << Dont tell anyone Mark, but i went to the Mods mayday reunion @ the Forum last year. (The 'Hearts put me on the guest list) and Ian Page has turned into a right little porker ! >> Did you wear your fishtail parka and pork pie hat? Who else was on the bill? And was any of it any good? I very nearly went to the punk revival weekender in Blackpool about three years ago....everybody who was nobody as playing - 999, Slaughter & the Dogs, the Drones etc.... however I decided against. Some memories should be left alone... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:21:50 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: swings and roundabouts On Saturday I picked up my son from a party and noticed a Church plant and flower sale opposite. I went in and amongst the plant sellers there was one books stall and after a while I spotted a box of records under it and had a flick through them. After the obligatory Joe loss and the 'herb' Albert,etc, I was surprised to find, Still,Joy Division Blue Monday12"New order Cocaine(album) Dillinger Boiling Point, James Brown Space Ritual,Zones+Masters of the Universe, Hawkwind Ace of Spades+no Sleep till Hammersmith, Motorhead Off the Bone, the Cramps Its its the sweet mix, Sweet Schools out Desky Album, Alice Cooper Give em enough rope, I will not go on but in all I got 24 lps and 12' singles for £12. All good condition Brilliant. Then I got into work this morning and found that some f*"ck**! had selected from my drawer and made off with my Moloko CD which will cost £15 to replace. What? It just goes to show that what the good Lord giveth cheaply at his plant sale, some bastard knicketh back more than from your desk. Oh well... Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:27:20 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: target on my back sorry can't resist a mention of this subject. at the time of the "mod revival" i was about 16 , i've still got a lot of friends from that time. i guess most of us moved from a sort of pistols/clash/buzzcocks start into more obscure stuff , so by 1980 or so it was all pil/go4/killing joke/bauhaus/uk decay etc. to this day the way to get a great laugh is to mention secret affair and co. , basically all the complete wankers in my town who'd been into punk for the clothes/hairstyles/"rebellion" aspects instantly became mods. of course they then had to follow mr page's "we hate the punk elite" direction and deny their very recent past whilst looking for some punks to beat up. the same guys were all big bowie/new romantic fans about a year later. afraid i found it all pretty laughable , i struggle to think of a decent record by a mod revival band. the jam did it all so much better. the chords were probably the best of a dismal bunch , but with competition like secret affair and squire that isn't saying much. still , i guessed it flushed out a lot of crap punk bands out of harms way. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:52:16 -0500 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: cn pop songs > Interesting... My impression of CN's work is that whenever the song > starts to become poppy there would be an occasional drum beat, an > out-of-tune-with-everything guitar chord or silly keyboards... My description of A-Z is that it would be a pop album but there are too many hooks. A popsong with 1 or 2 hooks sticks in the mund, but a dozen just confuses. Must be why I like it so well. > On the other hand, "Could you?" from "He Said Take Care" is probably > as great a pop song as it gets... only "Outdoor Miner" could come > close second... and who wrote that number? dmc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:58:00 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: swings and roundabouts Dont life just make ya wanna kill some bastard at times Alan??? Grrrrrrrrrr LuciferSam (Runnin' around my brain) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Gray To: Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 3:21 PM Subject: swings and roundabouts On Saturday I picked up my son from a party and noticed a Church plant and flower sale opposite. I went in and amongst the plant sellers there was one books stall and after a while I spotted a box of records under it and had a flick through them. After the obligatory Joe loss and the 'herb' Albert,etc, I was surprised to find, Still,Joy Division Blue Monday12"New order Cocaine(album) Dillinger Boiling Point, James Brown Space Ritual,Zones+Masters of the Universe, Hawkwind Ace of Spades+no Sleep till Hammersmith, Motorhead Off the Bone, the Cramps Its its the sweet mix, Sweet Schools out Desky Album, Alice Cooper Give em enough rope, I will not go on but in all I got 24 lps and 12' singles for £12. All good condition Brilliant. Then I got into work this morning and found that some f*"ck**! had selected from my drawer and made off with my Moloko CD which will cost £15 to replace. What? It just goes to show that what the good Lord giveth cheaply at his plant sale, some bastard knicketh back more than from your desk. Oh well... Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:41:52 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: re ungreat live performances >>>p.s. - any votes for crappiest live performance?? I can think of a few >of >>>those! > >I saw The Fall at Camden Dingwalls a couple of years or so ago. >Anyone else there that night? >I think they played a couple of nights in quick succession, or maybe it was >the following year, but I recall a hilariously bad Fall concert at that >venue in that time frame. >The band consisted of a guitarist and a keyboardist only, the others having >recently departed. MES spent a good portion of the gig offstage. At one >point, the guitarist left and some random member of the audience grabbed >the guitar and played for a couple of songs. They played two nights,I was at the first you must have been to the second. I think they had a drummer when I saw them but I'm surprised that there were any guitarists left by the second night. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:44:19 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: RE Target on my back I saw punks and other people going into the cinema to watch quadrophenia, when they came out they were wearing Parkers and many had the targets painted on to them as well. I don't know what happenned to them in there. Some friends of mine made it into the middle page spread of the NME at this time. They were two mods on scooters stopped chatting to Robert Fripp in Wimborne Square. Underneath the picture the caption read.. FRIPP..what do you think of the space time continuum? FIRST MOD... ere mick I think this bloke's been on the scrumpy! Second MOD... oh are? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:29:05 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: the Cure + wire + joy division + and also the trees At 7:17 AM -0400 6/26/00, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >Fernando, > ><< As best as I can piece it together... from '80 to about 82, The Cure > toured with And Also The Trees... unfortunately, one had a record > contract and the other didn't. But, demos seem to indicate, and > stories from interviews, that both bands were learning a lot from > each other, though given &atT's more consistent cannon of quality > albums (my opinion) and style variations, that perhaps the Cure > gained the most out of the friendship... with the drums track from So > This Is Silence ending up in Pornography. That said, it was confided > that &atT's could never do a cover of Joy Division, as they were the > "reason for being." Granted, the same is not true for the Cure, but > perhaps an indirect influence, in that of JD-> &atT -> Cure. However, > I think that Wire, and in particular 154, had a hand in shaping up > Joy Division, and so it all comes back to Wire in some way. > >> > >And also the Trees were Cure obsessives who did indeed support the Cure from >time to time. However I think the concept of &ATT influencing the Cure is way >off. One-way traffic the other way, for sure. Robert Smith claims the >Pornography sound was influenced by the first Psychedelic Furs album BTW. I could not make a statement either way... as it seems that much went behind the scenes to know. &atTs were indeed very much fans of the Cure, but Robert has admitted to the same the other way around -- mutual biggest fans. The demos from &atTs from 1980 bear out some of the sounds in 17 seconds and Faith... so I tend to think of the mutual contribution.... it is all a speculation, and not trying to solve world peace. Just some tidbits. The thing is that &atT could not get the stuff out until '83, and by then the first album sounded too much like Pornography... perhaps the kiss of death, even if by the second album in '84 they were on their way to different path. > >Wire certainly influenced JD - look at the way the two bands dressed. But >remember that 154 came out at almost exactly the same time (late 79) as >Unknown Pleasures, so it's untrue to say the 154 album itself influenced JD's >work. So did PiL's Metal Box... but my suspicion is that the live tracks from both bands were available before the recording of Unknown Pleasures.... not that either had a direct influence.... but there is certainly some influence there.... Peter Hook has indeed major respect for Wire... no surprise there, I guess. thanks for reposting the quote.... very nice to read. cheers! - -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:01:33 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: the Cure + wire + joy division + and also the trees Fernando, >>I could not make a statement either way... as it seems that much went behind the scenes to know. &atTs were indeed very much fans of the Cure, but Robert has admitted to the same the other way around -- mutual biggest fans. The demos from &atTs from 1980 bear out some of the sounds in 17 seconds and Faith... so I tend to think of the mutual contribution.... << Most of 17 secs was written in 79....in one drunken session aparently. I have a great Cre tape from late 79, where they play virtually the whole album, with nonsense lyrics, as Robert obviously hadn't written any by that point.... >>it is all a speculation, and not trying to solve world peace. Just some tidbits. The thing is that &atT could not get the stuff out until '83, and by then the first album sounded too much like Pornography... perhaps the kiss of death, even if by the second album in '84 they were on their way to different path.<< It was a strange feature of bands like the Cure and JD/NO that they would help bands that sounded like them. JD were always happy to give support slots to Crispy Ambulance/Section 25/Tunnelvision etc, and I guess the Cure did the same with &ATT. << So did PiL's Metal Box... but my suspicion is that the live tracks from both bands were available before the recording of Unknown Pleasures.... not that either had a direct influence.... but there is certainly some influence there.... Peter Hook has indeed major respect for Wire... no surprise there, I guess. >> Mutual from Graham Lewis, it would seem, if you compare the bass line from Ahead with that of Temptation :-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:43:36 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: target on my back Paul, << basically all the complete wankers in my town who'd been into punk for the clothes/hairstyles/"rebellion" aspects instantly became mods. of course they then had to follow mr page's "we hate the punk elite" direction and deny their very recent past whilst looking for some punks to beat up. the same guys were all big bowie/new romantic fans about a year later. >> Some bands followed similar paths, most notably a group of Welsh teenageers who started as a punk band (the Toilets) then became mods (Seventeen) and finally reinvented themselves as bad U2 imitators.... The Alarm, of course. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:53:24 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: target on my back Paul, << afraid i found it all pretty laughable , i struggle to think of a decent record by a mod revival band. the jam did it all so much better. the chords were probably the best of a dismal bunch , but with competition like secret affair and squire that isn't saying much. still , i guessed it flushed out a lot of crap punk bands out of harms way. p >> The Chords and the Purple Hearts were the pick of the bunch. I do still really like the Chords' album and singles....I guess there was room for another band who sounded like the Jam/Who.... Purple Hearts might as well have been a punk band. Secret Affair were surprisingly un-crap live. I had a mate at work then who was a serious scooter boy - had been into it before the 'Mod revival' - who hated most of the mod bands. Real mods just listened to soul music. But even he liked Secret Affair, and dragged me along to see them in Blackburn. Enjoyed it. Squire I saw too - wore wanky striped blazers on stage, so were difficult to take seriously. Very lightweight, breezy 60s pop really. They covered Big Star's September Gurls in the mid 80s (though not when I saw them). I also once saw a Mod band called 'The Mods'. 10/10 for originality there.... mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:14:16 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: we are the sheep, we are the sheep..etc..... > The Chords and the Purple Hearts were the pick of the bunch. I do still > really like the Chords' album and singles.... As much as a retrograde step'Mod' was, I have to say that "Millions Like Us" by The Purple Hearts was brilliant. I saw them live so many times I lost count in the end. But then, they were mates of mine :-) They really were more of a psychedelic punk fusion live, Secret Affairs mob of hooligans hated them for being 'Too punky'...The Chords were also brilliant live. I think the reason these groups came to the fore was that by late 1978, punk was dissapearing up it's own arse, what with all those stupid mowhawk wankers, who totally missed the point. And Some of these groups wrote great pop songs, instead of what was fast becoming the cliche'd 'punk rock' thrash. I guess there was room for > another band who sounded like the Jam/Who.... Purple Hearts might as well > have been a punk band.<< when I saw them).< originality there....< > mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:07:52 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: the Cure - - >>> Looking back, I see I made the mistake of heeding the critics' adjurations > to stay well away from 17 Seconds, Faith & Pornography, which they pretty > much branded as pale Joy Division imitations. >> > >Very much contemporaries, not copyists. Robert admitted he slowed and >"darkened" the Cure because of Wire BTW. These are US Critics I presume, >dealing with the records later than their UK release. Almost certainly, as back then I never saw any British reviews except for months-after-the-fact ones in smal zines like Vague & ... god, I can't remember any others at the moment. Mainly anarcho-oriented, though. Acts of Defiance? I must note, though, that when the band came up on the punk77 list a few weeks ago, probably after I mentioned going to Dallas to see them, the 2 friends of mine (one of whom did a zine back in the day called Grinding Halt) who weighed in with the 3-Imaginary-Boys-good, 17-Seconds-&-everything-after-horrid perspective were from England & Scotland, respectively. And going purely by the clips reproduced in the 10 Imaginary Years book, quite a few critics in the UK music weeklies harbored similar sentiments at the time. >>>Like 'em or not, I think there's something to be said for a band that was >putting out "silly, popular in the dancefloor stuff" while also honing its >"sense of morbidity and depression." That's a pretty impressive feat, & I'm >still not sure how they were able to pull it off.<< > >Agreed. THere are at least four classic Cure albums too (17sec, Faith, Porn >and Disintegration) while Bloodflowers is a pretty good farewell. The final >encore at the Wembley gig a few weeks ago was a peach too - M, Play for >Today, A Forest and Faith. Alas, we didn't get M or Play for Today, though after hearing half of the Pornography LP -- the title track, Cold, Siamese Twins & *esp.* 100 Years -- I can't complain. (Well, yes, I can, as A Strange Day would've really been the icing on the cake.) Speaking of encores, if their NY show a few days ago was indeed their final US performance ever, they committed a major faux pas by not playing A Forest. Which leads me to doubt more than ever that a breakup is truly in the offing. Can't say Disintegration did much for me, though Fascination Street & Pictures of You are fine singles. My favorite track from that era was a B-side -- 2 Late. (Just as my favorite song from the Kiss Me sessions, other than Just Like Heaven, didn't make the album -- To the Sky.) > >>>Dan, who wears mostly black (well, OK, more likely grey -- goddamned >antidepressants) & whose own Robert Smith haircut didn't go away till >earlier this month ... wish to god "laying about" was an option right now, >but instead I've got to go pull my 2nd straight 12-hour shift in a few >minutes<< > >Mark, whose Robert Smith haircut was damned impressive in 1982 and whose only >real option for Stars In their Eyes would be Fat Bob. Mucho corporate >hospitality has given me the physique, Any resemblance between my waistline & Robert's is purely uncanny. while the hair is still all present >and correct, though not so upright (or black) these days. I think I've mentioned before -- I certainly have on other lists -- that my newly shorn status prompted a co-worker a few days ago to remark that I look like Glenn Frey. I was not enthralled. Dan, listening to the Screaming Dead's new comeback-of-sorts CD while preparing to go out & see if the shops have the new Electric Hellfire Club ... obviously, the Goth virus remains active in my bloodstream ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:15:43 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: the Cure At 01:07 PM 6/26/00, tube disaster wrote: >- >I must note, though, that when the band came up on the punk77 list a few >weeks ago, probably after I mentioned going to Dallas to see them, the 2 >friends of mine (one of whom did a zine back in the day called Grinding >Halt) who weighed in with the 3-Imaginary-Boys-good, >17-Seconds-&-everything-after-horrid perspective were from England & >Scotland, respectively. And going purely by the clips reproduced in the 10 >Imaginary Years book, quite a few critics in the UK music weeklies harbored >similar sentiments at the time. Wasnt the Cure one of many bands that have become exceedingly popular in France, then to be welcomed with open arms by England? Did it not happen to them when Head on The Door came out? What I mean here is that in terms of local popularity, the Cure achieved greater success in France than in England.... it seems that most "dark" music is found by the French first... - -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:22:18 +0100 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: Wire/Newman "The Sweet Songs" Some other pop singers who have a tendency for sweetness, but whose records you wouldn't have to hide if your friends came round ... Momus - the self-titled tender pervert, usually sneaks a few sweeties on every LP in amongst the smut Microdisney/Fatima Mansions/Cathal Coughlan solo - sometimes jangly, sometimes ferocious, but every now and then a Scott Walker interlude The Go-Betweens - jangly too, but a couple of tunesome heartbreakers on every LP Same as for CN - compilation needed, rather than there being one LP to recommend. John Cale ? Yo La Tengo ? Yo La Tengo playing John Cale ? Belle and Sebastian ? Perhaps getting wetter rather than sweeter, but still excellent. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Pearson" To: Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 10:20 AM Subject: Wire/Newman "The Sweet Songs" > I think Wire, or probably just Colin, should do a CD compilation > of the really "Sweet" (I know, that word is dangerous!) songs that > he's done so far in his career. He has some of the "grooviest" songs, > but they're only a handful scattered across 10 or more albums. > But songs like Safe, Trucculent Yet, Order for Order, Outdoor Minor, > The 15th, The King of Um and the Queen of Ur, and so many others > are just so incredible, I'm sure it would blow away some unsuspecting > people. Does anyone else know what I'm talking about? Can you name > another artist works in this same vein? I can only think of some > of Marc Bolan's stuff, again, across a wide range of other kinds of music. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:49:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: the Cure Fernando, << Wasnt the Cure one of many bands that have become exceedingly popular in France, then to be welcomed with open arms by England? Did it not happen to them when Head on The Door came out? What I mean here is that in terms of local popularity, the Cure achieved greater success in France than in England.... it seems that most "dark" music is found by the French first... >> Not really. they had a pretty big following by the time of Pornography, and after that (when they went pop) they had a Top 10 hit with Love cats - a good two years before Head on the Door. I know they were popular in France, but they always had a good following in the UK, whihc only started to dissipate in the mid-90s, when the Cure were inactive and Britpop came along. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:36:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Borchers Subject: Re: the Cure + wire + joy division + and also the trees >As best as I can piece it together... from '80 to about 82, The Cure >toured with And Also The Trees... unfortunately, one had a record >contract and the other didn't. But, demos seem to indicate, and >stories from interviews, that both bands were learning a lot from >each other, though given &atT's more consistent cannon of quality >albums (my opinion) and style variations, that perhaps the Cure >gained the most out of the friendship... with the drums track from So >This Is Silence ending up in Pornography. That said, it was confided >that &atT's could never do a cover of Joy Division, as they were the >"reason for being." Granted, the same is not true for the Cure, but >perhaps an indirect influence, in that of JD-> &atT -> Cure. However, >I think that Wire, and in particular 154, had a hand in shaping up >Joy Division, and so it all comes back to Wire in some way. Joy Division definitely had a very direct influence on The Cure. Rob Smith loves them -- he once listed Closer as his #1 favorite album in an issue of Cure News. He also dedicated a song to Ian in concert shortly after his suicide. They even opened for JD once. Wouldn't you love to go back in time to see that gig? - -- Jason Borchers jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:19:49 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: the Cure + wire + joy division + and also the trees actually, I think that it was the other way around... JD opened for the Cure... or so was the implications of a poster sale a few years back... at least this one instance. May be it happened again the other way around... On the subject of Ahead and Temptation... wasn't Wire sensitive to this kind of comparison... and isn't in Everybody Loves a History that Graham implies that Hook stole way more riffs from him? cheers! - -fernando At 6:36 PM -0700 6/26/00, Jason Borchers wrote: > >As best as I can piece it together... from '80 to about 82, The Cure >>toured with And Also The Trees... unfortunately, one had a record >>contract and the other didn't. But, demos seem to indicate, and >>stories from interviews, that both bands were learning a lot from >>each other, though given &atT's more consistent cannon of quality >>albums (my opinion) and style variations, that perhaps the Cure >>gained the most out of the friendship... with the drums track from So >>This Is Silence ending up in Pornography. That said, it was confided >>that &atT's could never do a cover of Joy Division, as they were the >>"reason for being." Granted, the same is not true for the Cure, but >>perhaps an indirect influence, in that of JD-> &atT -> Cure. However, >>I think that Wire, and in particular 154, had a hand in shaping up >>Joy Division, and so it all comes back to Wire in some way. > >Joy Division definitely had a very direct influence on The Cure. Rob >Smith loves them -- he once listed Closer as his #1 favorite album in an >issue of Cure News. He also dedicated a song to Ian in concert shortly >after his suicide. > >They even opened for JD once. Wouldn't you love to go back in time to see >that gig? > >-- >Jason Borchers >jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:05:26 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: the Cure > > Wasnt the Cure one of many bands that have become exceedingly popular in > France, then to be welcomed with open arms by England? Did it not > happen to > them when Head on The Door came out? > > What I mean here is that in terms of local popularity, the Cure achieved > greater success in France than in England.... it seems that most "dark" > music is found by the French first... > > -fernando I never thought of the French as advocates of "dark music" before (except perhaps Gong in the 70's?). It's very intriguing, if true. Does anyone have any other examples for this? giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #198 *******************************