From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #197 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, June 26 2000 Volume 03 : Number 197 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: the Cure ["tube disaster" ] Re: the Cure ["tube disaster" ] Film School (was: any votes for crappiest live performance??) ["Paul Pie] Re: great live albums ["Mats Hammerman" ] Re: great live albums ["lucifersam" ] Re: any votes for crappiest live performance?? [Katherine Pouliot Subject: Re: the Cure >regarding the old Cure: I was lucky to have the 17 Seconds/Faith >two lp set right when it came out, about 1981 (what was it called again?). Happily Ever After >This was such >exceptional music back then, I really thought I stumbled onto something! I >couldn't really get into their music past those two >albums, but they were like having Wordsworth or something back then. You might want to go back sometime & check out the album after that, Pornography. It took me more than a decade to "get" that album -- until maybe half a year ago -- & it's now my favorite of theirs. Very much a continuation of 17 Seconds & Faith. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:16:55 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: the Cure >>regarding the old Cure: I was lucky to have the 17 Seconds/Faith >>two lp set right when it came out, about 1981 (what was it called again?). >>This was such >>exceptional music back then, I really thought I stumbled onto something! I >>couldn't really get into their music past those two >>albums, but they were like having Wordsworth or something back then. > >Well, I don't know about Wordsworth, but I remember still the impression the >early Cure made on me. The first singles and album were very interesting, >and catchy, examples of that inside/out sound that bands like GoF, Delta 5 >and others were getting, angular yet catchy, hummable, yet with an edge. 17 >Seconds and Faith were such leaps of growth - monuments to bleakness. It >was impossible to imagine how they could possiblly progress from there. But >then they started to do silly, popular in the dancefloor stuff like "Love >Cats" and lost me immediately. Whereas I happen to like all of that stuff, Lovecats very much included. I might feel differently if I'd been following the band all along, but instead, while I bought & very much liked the Boys Don't Cry LP (the Americanized version of the first album, which bore pretty much the same relation to Three Imaginary Boys as the US release of The Clash did to the UK original), from '80-'86 the only things of theirs I picked up (or heard ... I don't think I ever heard one note of theirs on the radio back then) were the Charlotte Sometimes 7", Let's Go to Bed 12" & The Walk EP, none of which lit me up (though Charlotte, in retrospect, was ace -- wish to hell they'd played it in Dallas a month ago), as well as the unadulterated first LP. Looking back, I see I made the mistake of heeding the critics' adjurations to stay well away from 17 Seconds, Faith & Pornography, which they pretty much branded as pale Joy Division imitations. >I was intrigued that Robert Smith was tipped for the Banshees, and kept the >Cure going at the same time. But the more the Cure went on, the more >infantile their sense of morbidity and depression became. You'd have all >these kids around who thought that Robert symbolized their disaffection with >the world, copying his haircut and wearing only black and laying about just >reinforcing each other when the only thing they were disaffected from was >putting some effort into their own lives to do something original/creative. >Oh, god, how I hated that protoGoth scene. And It's only gotten worse. - Like 'em or not, I think there's something to be said for a band that was putting out "silly, popular in the dancefloor stuff" while also honing its "sense of morbidity and depression." That's a pretty impressive feat, & I'm still not sure how they were able to pull it off. Dan, who wears mostly black (well, OK, more likely grey -- goddamned antidepressants) & whose own Robert Smith haircut didn't go away till earlier this month ... wish to god "laying about" was an option right now, but instead I've got to go pull my 2nd straight 12-hour shift in a few minutes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:23:14 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Film School (was: any votes for crappiest live performance??) > Ok, I'll get to worst live performance in a sec - but this staying at bad > movies kills me, cause I'm the same way - I'll never forget one time my > friend and I went to the drive in and after the feature there was a Raquel > Welch film playing called "restless" if I remember This film sounded so terrible I had to look it up. According to IMDB, it's actually called "The Beloved". Here's the plot summary: "Yanni returns to his homeland, on a Greek island, after several years in London. Soon he is searching for his teenager passion, Elena. She is a married woman now, and adultery leads to violence and crime. " I know what you're thinking. Yanni? The musician? Nope - it's an actor who's character is named Yanni. But, still, the mental image had me laughing my socks off for a while. And, yes, Raqcel Welch plays Elena. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:04:45 PDT From: "Mats Hammerman" Subject: Re: great live albums Slade alive! Now we are talking. Its the definitively the ultimate version of Born to be wild. At least 5 minutes of feedback and screaming guitars without being boring. Tons of energy. That record have been the last record played on all parties held in my apartment before leaving for the pubs for the last year . And played loud! Mats >I'd like to put forward "Salde Alive"....It kicks arse big time. "Born to >be >Wild" is so fucking mean that it blows ya speakers open, sorta like MC5 on >Acid, after a Hawkwind party!!!! >Le Cat Siamese.. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:00:09 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: great live albums Respect is due mats....... Le Cta Siamese (stunned by Hollands 6-1 win!) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mats Hammerman To: Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 8:03 PM Subject: Re: great live albums > > Slade alive! Now we are talking. Its the definitively the ultimate version > of Born to be wild. At least 5 minutes of feedback and screaming guitars > without being boring. Tons of energy. That record have been the last record > played on all parties held in my apartment before leaving for the pubs for > the last year . And played loud! > Mats > > > >From: "lucifersam" > >To: "Katherine Pouliot" , > >Subject: Re: great live albums > >Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 13:34:42 +0100 > > > >I'd like to put forward "Salde Alive"....It kicks arse big time. "Born to > >be > >Wild" is so fucking mean that it blows ya speakers open, sorta like MC5 on > >Acid, after a Hawkwind party!!!! > >Le Cat Siamese.. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Katherine Pouliot > >To: > >Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 4:06 PM > >Subject: Re: great live albums > > > > > > > > From: "Carl Archer" > > > > To: ; > > > > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 12:18 PM > > > > Subject: Re: great live albums > > > > > > > > > > > > > The new release of "Stop Making Sense" is much better and has more > > > songs. > > > > > The version that was issued in '84 is remixed heavily and kills the > > > > energy. > > > > > Oh yes, please don't forget to buy the DVD! > > > > > > > > > > Does Laurie Anderson's "Home of the Brave" count as a live album? > > > > > > > > > > -Carl > > > > > > My husband has a few Laurie Anderson albums. I give her kudos for her > >use > > > of technology and all that, sure, but I wouldn't buy her albums. I was > > > never a fan. That was, until we saw her live a few years ago. > >Records, > > > live or otherwise, don't do her justice! She is on my top 10 list of > >best > > > live performers (I know, 10 is a lot, but there is so much to choose > >from!). > > > > > > K > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:14:47 -0400 From: Katherine Pouliot Subject: Re: any votes for crappiest live performance?? Paul, That is exciting to hear - I know that if Cibo Matto decides to come around here I will definitely go see them. I think their album Stereotype A is great - definitely overproduced (or something to that effect) but has so much potential for fun live music. Definitely!!! Thanks for the inspiration. If I see them and they suck, I won't put it on your shoulders. ;-) katherine > From: "Paul Pietromonaco" > Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:15:59 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: any votes for crappiest live performance?? > >> Shonen Knife, anyone? >> > > I've been staying out of this discussion because I'm terrible at lists, > (^_^) but I will chime in here. One of the most enjoyable shows I have > ever seen was Shonen Knife at Moe's in Seattle, in support of their Rock > Animals album. Technically, their playing was quite amateurish, but the > joy and enthusiasm they had was infectious. Everyone was dancing - and > that included the jaded Seattle rock scene veterans who were in attendance. > (Eddie Vedder, members of the Posies, etc.) At one point in the show, the > three Knifesters got out a small, disposable camera, and took a picture of > themselves in front of the audience - then they thanked us! > > As they've gotten more proficient, their shows haven't been quite as much > fun as that particular show. They're still worth seeing, though. > Unfortunately, the future of the band is in some doubt as the bassist has > left the group, and the two sisters aren't sure what to do now. > > Cheers, > Paul > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:20:00 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: the Cure Dan, << Whereas I happen to like all of that stuff, Lovecats very much included.<< me too. There's not a lot I don't like. I guess Kss Me Kiss me Kiss Me is the nadir.... just too many crap songs. >> I might feel differently if I'd been following the band all along, << Doubt it, says one who has followd the band all along. I have few complaints against the Cure...who I started listening to from Killing an Arab, which was around when I was studying Camus for my O levels in 1979. >>but instead, while I bought & very much liked the Boys Don't Cry LP (the Americanized version of the first album, which bore pretty much the same relation to Three Imaginary Boys as the US release of The Clash did to the UK original), << But better. Whiel the US Clash album omitted gret trackd from the UK one, the US Cure album added the singles and only lost a couple of tracks from 3 Imaginary Boys (which is not that good to be honest) >>from '80-'86 the only things of theirs I picked up (or heard ... I don't think I ever heard one note of theirs on the radio back then) were the Charlotte Sometimes 7", Let's Go to Bed 12" & The Walk EP, none of which lit me up (though Charlotte, in retrospect, was ace -- wish to hell they'd played it in Dallas a month ago), as well as the unadulterated first LP.<< Charlotte Sometimes is fantastic. You really need the UK 12inch with the extended livce Faith ion the second side. Awesome. >> Looking back, I see I made the mistake of heeding the critics' adjurations to stay well away from 17 Seconds, Faith & Pornography, which they pretty much branded as pale Joy Division imitations. >> Very much contemporaries, not copyists. Robert admitted he slowed and "darkened" the Cure because of Wire BTW. These are US Critics I presume, dealing with the records later than their UK release. >>Like 'em or not, I think there's something to be said for a band that was putting out "silly, popular in the dancefloor stuff" while also honing its "sense of morbidity and depression." That's a pretty impressive feat, & I'm still not sure how they were able to pull it off.<< Agreed. THere are at least four classic Cure albums too (17sec, Faith, Porn and Disintegration) while Bloodflowers is a pretty good farewell. The final encore at the Wembley gig a few weeks ago was a peach too - M, Play for Today, A Forest and Faith. >>Dan, who wears mostly black (well, OK, more likely grey -- goddamned antidepressants) & whose own Robert Smith haircut didn't go away till earlier this month ... wish to god "laying about" was an option right now, but instead I've got to go pull my 2nd straight 12-hour shift in a few minutes<< Mark, whose Robert Smith haircut was damned impressive in 1982 and whose only real option for Stars In their Eyes would be Fat Bob. Mucho corporate hospitality has given me the physique, while the hair is still all present and correct, though not so upright (or black) these days. I don't have a white Jazzmaster but I do have a white Electric XII :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:21:25 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Closet Mod alert!!!! Steve, << I was always a bit disappointed by So Far Away after the brilliant build up of the singles. >> Naah...it's like a greatest hits. I think there are at least three more singles on there.....just wish I'd seen 'em live.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:22:45 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Closet Mod alert!!!!-We are the Mods..etc... LuciferCat, << <> Talking of which, Ian Page is now an advertising sales rep for the Daily Telegraph! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:52:22 EDT From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: RE: Wire/Newman "The Sweet Songs" >One of the great things about Colin - a great pop singer/songwriter, >though he probably'll never admit to it Interesting... My impression of CN's work is that whenever the song starts to become poppy there would be an occasional drum beat, an out-of-tune-with-everything guitar chord or silly keyboards... On the other hand, "Could you?" from "He Said Take Care" is probably as great a pop song as it gets... only "Outdoor Miner" could come close second... Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://belmusic.hypermart.net ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:56:39 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: the Cure + wire + joy division + and also the trees At 8:20 PM -0400 6/25/00, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >> Looking back, I see I made the mistake of heeding the critics' adjurations > to stay well away from 17 Seconds, Faith & Pornography, which they pretty > much branded as pale Joy Division imitations. >> > >Very much contemporaries, not copyists. Robert admitted he slowed and >"darkened" the Cure because of Wire BTW. These are US Critics I presume, >dealing with the records later than their UK release. As best as I can piece it together... from '80 to about 82, The Cure toured with And Also The Trees... unfortunately, one had a record contract and the other didn't. But, demos seem to indicate, and stories from interviews, that both bands were learning a lot from each other, though given &atT's more consistent cannon of quality albums (my opinion) and style variations, that perhaps the Cure gained the most out of the friendship... with the drums track from So This Is Silence ending up in Pornography. That said, it was confided that &atT's could never do a cover of Joy Division, as they were the "reason for being." Granted, the same is not true for the Cure, but perhaps an indirect influence, in that of JD-> &atT -> Cure. However, I think that Wire, and in particular 154, had a hand in shaping up Joy Division, and so it all comes back to Wire in some way. > >>>Like 'em or not, I think there's something to be said for a band that was >putting out "silly, popular in the dancefloor stuff" while also honing its >"sense of morbidity and depression." That's a pretty impressive feat, & I'm >still not sure how they were able to pull it off.<< > >Agreed. THere are at least four classic Cure albums too (17sec, >Faith, Porn [snip]) Speaking of which... is there any word of these albums being remastered? Also Head On The Door would be nice cheers! - -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:37:28 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Closet Mod alert!!!!-We are the Mods..etc... > Talking of which, Ian Page is now an advertising sales rep for the Daily > Telegraph! > > Mark Dont tell anyone Mark, but i went to the Mods mayday reunion @ the Forum last year. (The 'Hearts put me on the guest list) and Ian Page has turned into a right little porker ! LS. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:44:06 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: The Modern Antiquarian(Request for Videotape) Firstly, apologies for sending previous message sans subject heading, oops! Does anyone on the list (UK members) have a copy of the Julian Cope film, broadcast on BBC2 Saturday? Due to an attack of extreme stupidity I programmed the VCR but left the tape out. Public humiliation. If anyone has a copy of this on tape that they can spare or could copy I would gladly pay postage, costs etc. If anyone saw the film ( about pre-Roman Britain, standing stones) maybe you could let us know if Copey was making any sense or has he indeed, left the planet. cheers Ally (in exile) ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #197 *******************************