From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #189 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, June 21 2000 Volume 03 : Number 189 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Great....Super..furry animals [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Super Furry Animals [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] RE: RIP--high (?) fidelity ["giluz" ] Re: Great....Super..furry animals ["Stephen JC Sheen" ] RE: Manicured Noise ["giluz" ] Re XTC [Alan Gray ] RE: "Play" ["giluz" ] Re: "Play" [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Replay as it were? [Alan Gray ] Re: Replay as it were? [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Manicured Noise [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Replay as it were? [MarkBursa@aol.com] XTC [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re[2]: Replay as it were? [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Replay as it were? [Mark Short ] Fantastic live [Alistair Tear ] RE: Fantastic live ["giluz" ] Re: Re[2]: Replay as it were? ["tube disaster" ] Magazine ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: XTC and Magazine (again) ["Stephen Jackson" ] RE: XTC and Magazine (again) ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: Manicured Noise ["Laurel G" ] RE: Manicured Noise [Creatured ] Re: snub tv ["ian barrett" ] Re: XTC and Magazine (again) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: Replay as it were? [MarkBursa@aol.com] Idiot's guide to the Byrds [MarkBursa@aol.com] True Love [Carl Archer ] tons of extraneous emails ["Garrett Holway" ] Re: Idiot's guide to the Byrds [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] RE: Manicured Noise ["giluz" ] RE: True Love ["giluz" ] New King Crimson ["giluz" ] Re[4]: Replay as it were? [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:31:17 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Great....Super..furry animals . While in the shop I was lucky to find in the cheapo remainder rack, a cd version of "Play" Magazine, my LP of this is battered, and LP's can't be played at work so I've been keyboarding down memory lane a bit over the past few days as well. A model worker I'm willing to be, as long as I can listen to the odd CD. Alan >>>>>> never heard play , often people dismiss that and the final magazine album as below par. i think you can get all the magazine cd's except "soap" cheaply so i've been tempted but not gone for them. you'd recommend them then? apparently there's a magazine box-set due this year. the website shotbybothsides.com is worth a look ; there's a really funny old review of "secondhand daylight" by (ahem) garry bushell. devoto vs bushell , what a great meeting of minds. shame garry's tv career never quite takes off :-) p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:04:04 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Super Furry Animals Sent today by NME.com. Super Furry Animals - New York City Bowery Ballroom ...Deserving of reverence and rapt attention... http://www.nme.com/reviews/reviews/20000619124900.html The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:19:47 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: RIP--high (?) fidelity > > What about 120 minutes?? Are there any fans of that here? They don't have it anymore in MTV Europe, but I used to really like it about 10 years ago. Never was lucky to catch any Wire video in there. though. Towards the end, as the distinctions between alternative and other genres began to seriously blur, they got a bit confused and started showing things like the Cardigans. I mean, just because they were swedish and not famous (at the time) doesn't mean they should be broadcast in 120 Minutes. Different subject: Did anyone ever hear of Manicured Noise? What did they do and what were they like? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:38:22 +0100 From: "Stephen JC Sheen" Subject: Re: Great....Super..furry animals While we're catching up on last month's threads, the XTC LP "Wasp Star" that was written off without a listen then by some listers is actually very good. It's "XTC with guitars" in a "Senses Working Overtime" with a dusting of emery paper sort of way. Nothing like "Apple Venus", especially with regard to Colin Moulding's apparent efforts on that LP to wrest the "oh dear, is he with us" crown from Steve Diggle. At least *five* likely candidates for your all-time XTC C90, if you have one. And I was the boy who can still remember dancing in the street after hearing that the XTC concert back in 1978 at Barbarella's, Birmingham, was cancelled at short notice, but that a group called "Wire" would kindly be standing in. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Gray" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 11:06 AM Subject: Great....Super..furry animals > >>Who are they, where are they from and what kind of music do they play? The > >>name sounds familiar. > >>giluz > > I don't know a lot about them, I knew that the CD was sung in welsh and had only heard snippets before the headphones in the shop meant I had to buy it. What I didn't expect was the celtic edge to the music, but if I try to say anymore I'll end up sounding like, don't be silly Gilly Goolden, when banging on about a wine that she likes. > Its got Eno,its got celtic folk its got a 70's TV detective theme in there, etc etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 05:43:48 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Manicured Noise Giluz, << Different subject: Did anyone ever hear of Manicured Noise? What did they do and what were they like? >> Round and round....these cropped up a while back. I have their entire recorded output (two 7inch singles). Basically they sound like a more frantic version of Talking Heads (circa Fear of Music) with added sax. The first single (Faith/Freetime) is representative of their sound - the second (Moscow/Metronome) is an instrumental. Moscow was intended to be an alternative theme tune for the Olympics that year - Orange Juice recorded a tune in similar vein, trivia fans! MN had a female rhythm section. Came from Manchester, and existed from about 1979-81. I remember them playing a lot round that time but I never saw them live.... An excellent band - shame they never recorded anything else. There was no album and they didn't even record a Peel session. Someone on the list knows more about them than I do. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:08:51 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: "Play" >>>>>> never heard play , often people dismiss that and the final magazine album as below par. i think you can get all >>the magazine cd's except "soap" cheaply so i've been tempted but not gone for them. you'd recommend them then? Paul Rabjohn When Play came out,any visitor to my place would have to hear it at least once, and I got some stick. I like it now because I liked it then, you could argue that it sounds dated, it certainly seems keyboard heavy in these days. I don't often get CDs of LPs that I have, CDs being a rip off anyway, but if you see this one going cheap I think its worth it. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:22:37 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Manicured Noise > Round and round....these cropped up a while back. I have their entire > recorded output (two 7inch singles). Basically they sound like a > more frantic > version of Talking Heads (circa Fear of Music) with added sax. The first > single (Faith/Freetime) is representative of their sound - the second > (Moscow/Metronome) is an instrumental. Moscow was intended to be an > alternative theme tune for the Olympics that year - Orange Juice > recorded a > tune in similar vein, trivia fans! > > MN had a female rhythm section. Came from Manchester, and existed > from about > 1979-81. I remember them playing a lot round that time but I > never saw them > live.... > > An excellent band - shame they never recorded anything else. There was no > album and they didn't even record a Peel session. Someone on the > list knows > more about them than I do. > > Mark > The reason I'm asking is that Jeff Noon, one of the MN members, is now an author, and a great one at that. I was just reading on the cover of one of his books, that he used to be in this band and wondered what they were like. If anyone's interested in Cyberpunk SF, heavily influenced by Philip K Dick, dealing mainly with drugs, alternative cultures and genetic engineering, they sould read his books. Vurt was his first novel, and one of the best I've ever read. His last one, called Needle In The Groove, is dealing with music, but I didn't get to read it yet. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:19:43 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: Re XTC >>>>It's "XTC with guitars" in a "Senses Working Overtime" with a dusting of >>>>emery paper sort of way. Stephen JC Sheen I've got the single but I remember, I hoped for a slight change of words, to... Senseless working overtime. I still sing it that way. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:28:51 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: "Play" Play is the live one - right? It's not bad, actually. I've had it for years now, on LP and quite recently on CD. It is recommended, though not as good as the studio albums. The version of Parade (I hope I got the name right, I'm very bad with song names) is really worth it. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:46:00 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: "Play" I don't often get CDs of LPs that I have, CDs being a rip off anyway, but if you see this one going cheap I think its worth it. Alan >>>> they only sell for about £5 , you wouldn't get an old vinyl version for that. no doubt this box set will be a cash-in i suspect , but peel sessions and things might be worth getting.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:14:31 +-100 From: Alan Gray Subject: Replay as it were? I've just remember'd that when I got the LP it came with a sticker saying do not pay more than three and a tanner for this album (can't remember the exact amount) Being a live one it was cheap then. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:36:05 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Replay as it were? >>>>> a sound principle. i have friends who think live albums are the essence of music , i've bought loads but must admit i generally play them very rarely (that includes D&E/T&S ; i like em but don't get them out too often). how many really classic live albums are there? (he says , contentiously).p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Replay as it were? Author: MIME:alan.gray@twa-group.com at INTERNET Date: 20/06/2000 13:24 I've just remember'd that when I got the LP it came with a sticker saying do not pay more than three and a tanner for this album (can't remember the exact amount) Being a live one it was cheap then. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:18:37 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Manicured Noise Giluz, << The reason I'm asking is that Jeff Noon, one of the MN members, is now an author, and a great one at that. I was just reading on the cover of one of his books, that he used to be in this band and wondered what they were like. If anyone's interested in Cyberpunk SF, heavily influenced by Philip K Dick, dealing mainly with drugs, alternative cultures and genetic engineering, they sould read his books. Vurt was his first novel, and one of the best I've ever read. His last one, called Needle In The Groove, is dealing with music, but I didn't get to read it yet. >> I noticed that Noon had claimed to be in MN while I was searching for information about the band last time they cropped up - If he was in the band he's not on the records. The line-up is as follows: Steve Walsh - Gtr/vox Jodie Taylor - bass Peter Bannister - sax Stephanie Nuttall - drums There's a little postcard with a picture of them inside one of the singles. So unless Noon is Steve Walsh under a pseudonym he must have been in the band before they recorded. Or after. Or he's telling porkies. And no, I will not mention Leicester City again in this context ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:22:45 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Replay as it were? Paul, >> a sound principle. i have friends who think live albums are the essence of music , i've bought loads but must admit i generally play them very rarely (that includes D&E/T&S ; i like em but don't get them out too often). how many really classic live albums are there? (he says , contentiously).p >> the other day I bought (Untitled) by the Byrds, which has been remastered with a second CD of unreleased stuff. very good value. And the live half is excellent too. Especially the 16 minute Eight Miles High (12 mins of psychedelic country jazz rock insanity before they start the song). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:27:18 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: XTC Stephen, << While we're catching up on last month's threads, the XTC LP "Wasp Star" that was written off without a listen then by some listers is actually very good. It's "XTC with guitars" in a "Senses Working Overtime" with a dusting of emery paper sort of way. Nothing like "Apple Venus", especially with regard to Colin Moulding's apparent efforts on that LP to wrest the "oh dear, is he with us" crown from Steve Diggle. At least *five* likely candidates for your all-time XTC C90, if you have one. >> Agreed. Moulding seems to deal exclusively in whimsical songs aboout dinner parties and gardening these days. Quite admirable in a way really. He's getting old, and acknowledges it. Doesn't necessarily make for good music though - I can certainly do without his songs on Apple Venus. Jury's out on the Wasp Star tracks - though I reckon they'll go the same way. A fine album though. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:51:56 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Replay as it were? >> a sound principle. i have friends who think live albums are the essence of music , i've bought loads but must admit i generally play them very rarely (that includes D&E/T&S ; i like em but don't get them out too often). how many really classic live albums are there? (he says , contentiously).p >> the other day I bought (Untitled) by the Byrds, which has been remastered with a second CD of unreleased stuff. very good value. And the live half is excellent too. Especially the 16 minute Eight Miles High (12 mins of psychedelic country jazz rock insanity before they start the song). Mark >>> the byrds are on my list of bands i must get around to exploring fully sometime (others on there ; faust,can,mc5,new york dolls,john cale,flock of seagulls). sadly i just know the hits. great live albums ; nirvana ; mtv/banks of the wishta ramones ; its alive wire ; come back in 2 halves (ok , its a bootleg, i'm struggling here) live lps i was there for ; siouxsie ; nocturne play dead ; final epitaph sex pistols ; filthy lucre dream live album wire live 78/79 , compilation of album tracks off first 3 albums played live at various places. the missing link between the "behind the curtain"/roxy lp live tracks and D&E. just a thought...... p (ok , i lied about flock of seagulls) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:24:22 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: Replay as it were? paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > > >>>>> a sound principle. i have friends who think live albums are the essence of music , i've bought loads but must admit i generally play them very rarely (that includes D&E/T&S ; i like em but don't get them out too often). how many really classic live albums are there? (he says , contentiously).p > If the Punk Wars had a cause, surely it was to put an end to the misery of double live albums, cobbled together when the bloated progsters were too coked or too idle to write new material. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:50:57 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: Fantastic live paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > << how many really classic live albums are there? (he says , contentiously).p>> > The Fall 'In a Hole' on the Flying Nun label from Kiwiland. Al (mere pseud mag ed.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:10:15 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Fantastic live Righto!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of Alistair Tear > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 5:51 PM > To: Wire (E-mail) > Subject: Fantastic live > > > paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > > > << how many really classic live albums are there? (he says , > contentiously).p>> > > > The Fall 'In a Hole' on the Flying Nun label from Kiwiland. > Al > (mere pseud mag ed.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:00:55 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Replay as it were? >great live albums ; > >nirvana ; mtv/banks of the wishta >ramones ; its alive >wire ; come back in 2 halves (ok , its a bootleg, i'm struggling here) Offhand ... hmmm ... The Stranglers' Live X Cert is a favorite. Can't think of any others, offhand. Though Stiffs Live is a great live *comp*. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:08:09 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Manicured Noise >The reason I'm asking is that Jeff Noon, one of the MN members, is now an >author, and a great one at that. I was just reading on the cover of one of >his books, that he used to be in this band and wondered what they were like. >If anyone's interested in Cyberpunk SF, heavily influenced by Philip K Dick, >dealing mainly with drugs, alternative cultures and genetic engineering, >they sould read his books. Vurt was his first novel, and one of the best >I've ever read. His last one, called Needle In The Groove, is dealing with >music, but I didn't get to read it yet. > OK, you sold me -- he goes on my must-check-out list. Dan, charter member of the Philip K Dick Society from way back in the summer of ... '82 (the year PKD died) or '83 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:49:05 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Magazine Play not good, but Soap and SHDaylight brilliant, especially the latter.... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:14:57 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: XTC and Magazine (again) I reckon "Wasp Star" is the best thing they've done since "Skylarking"....I really rate "Playground" and the first section of "The Wheel and The Maypole"... and all the talk of Magazine has got me playing them right now. The single version of "Twenty Years Ago" is truly fantastic...great bassline from Adamson too... Obligatory Wire ref: Wire supported XTC, and Howard Devoto appeared in Eardrum Buzz..... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:23:45 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: XTC and Magazine (again) Speaking of Barry Adamson, have any of you checked out his solo stuff? I'm a huge fan of 'good' soundtrack music, and his 'Moss Side Story' is pure soundtrack magic... especially considering that it's a soundtrack to a non-existent movie. I also really liked his last release 'As Above, So Below'. It's nothing like Wire, but it's really good in a subtle manner. Cheers, Ray Ciscon Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager Comark, Inc. In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 ** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. ** -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Jackson [mailto:smj@zen.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 1:15 PM To: MarkBursa@aol.com; ssheen@clara.co.uk; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: XTC and Magazine (again) I reckon "Wasp Star" is the best thing they've done since "Skylarking"....I really rate "Playground" and the first section of "The Wheel and The Maypole"... and all the talk of Magazine has got me playing them right now. The single version of "Twenty Years Ago" is truly fantastic...great bassline from Adamson too... Obligatory Wire ref: Wire supported XTC, and Howard Devoto appeared in Eardrum Buzz..... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:17:44 CDT From: "Laurel G" Subject: Re: Manicured Noise >From: MarkBursa@aol.com Someone on the list knows more about them than I do. > >Mark Twould be me, I'm guessing - and as soon as I get over my ooopppsss of making my off list argument public - and as soon as I finish having another argument with my professor about Fair Trade I'll speak up - I only paid for the 5 minute argument this time, so it shouldn't be too long before I pop back in again Laurel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:19:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: RE: Manicured Noise I've never gotten around to reaing Noon's books. Are they like Neil Stephensons Snow Crash and Diamond Age books? Those are excellent,i think. Rick - --- giluz wrote: > > Round and round....these cropped up a while back. I have their > entire > > recorded output (two 7inch singles). Basically they sound like a > > more frantic > > version of Talking Heads (circa Fear of Music) with added sax. The > first > > single (Faith/Freetime) is representative of their sound - the > second > > (Moscow/Metronome) is an instrumental. Moscow was intended to be an > > alternative theme tune for the Olympics that year - Orange Juice > > recorded a > > tune in similar vein, trivia fans! > > > > MN had a female rhythm section. Came from Manchester, and existed > > from about > > 1979-81. I remember them playing a lot round that time but I > > never saw them > > live.... > > > > An excellent band - shame they never recorded anything else. There > was no > > album and they didn't even record a Peel session. Someone on the > > list knows > > more about them than I do. > > > > Mark > > > > The reason I'm asking is that Jeff Noon, one of the MN members, is > now an > author, and a great one at that. I was just reading on the cover of > one of > his books, that he used to be in this band and wondered what they > were like. > If anyone's interested in Cyberpunk SF, heavily influenced by Philip > K Dick, > dealing mainly with drugs, alternative cultures and genetic > engineering, > they sould read his books. Vurt was his first novel, and one of the > best > I've ever read. His last one, called Needle In The Groove, is dealing > with > music, but I didn't get to read it yet. > > giluz > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:39:31 +0100 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: snub tv You lucky Americans! The He Said stuff and SSP were definitely not run on any terrestrial SnubTV run. Ian Didn't take nearly as long as I thought. Turns out I was thinking of 2 > episodes ... nice to know I'm not losing my mind, as I was correct about He > Said & Silk Skin Paws. The rundowns -- > > (Earlier than the other one, as it was taped in Little Rock before I moved > to New Orleans in 8/88, & Peter Fowler appears as host) -- > > Woodentops -- Everyday Living > Prong -- In My Veins > Head of David -- Bugged > Gary Clail (looking like Frank Black) & Tackhead -- Reality > Blurt -- The Body They Built to Fit the Car > He Said -- Pulling 3 G's > He Said -- Pump > Close Lobsters -- Let's Make Some Plans > > (The second one is definitely a latterday [from a NightFlight standpoint] > episode, with offscreen American announcer, taped after my move to Nawlins. > The copyright at the end says '88, same as the other one, though there's an > excellent chance it didn't air over here till '89.) > > Pop Will Eat Itself -- Def.con 1 > Rapeman -- Hated Chinee > Walter Salas-Humara (misspelled "HumaNa" on-screen) -- Carol ... he's the > Silos guy & put on a pretty decent show here this spring, though in the > video he could pass for the oldest brother in Fox's Party of Five > Run-DMC -- Mary Mary > Frank Tovey -- Bridge St Shuffle, the video that, along with Sam Hall, got > me really interested in his solo stuff) > Wire -- Silk Skin Paws > Severed Heads -- Greater Reward > > Dan > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:16:46 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: XTC and Magazine (again) Ray, >>Speaking of Barry Adamson, have any of you checked out his solo stuff?<< There is a very good compilation that has all the best bits.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:23:34 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Replay as it were? Paul, << live lps i was there for ; siouxsie ; nocturne play dead ; final epitaph sex pistols ; filthy lucre >> Good game! ....I was at the Filthy Lucre gig too, and last year two gigs I was at came out - the Birthday Party live album (mostly at the Venue - I was at that one) and the Joy Division Preston Warehouse gig - my one and only JD gig. Recorded the night before D&E.... Add to that list 'Tempo House' from the Fall's Perverted by Language, recorded at the Hacienda in Manchester. I'm sure there are some more. I'm not including odd stuff like the Tunnelvision CD where I was at the recording of all of it bar one studio session... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:46:03 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Idiot's guide to the Byrds Paul, << >>> the byrds are on my list of bands i must get around to exploring fully sometime (others on there ; faust,can,mc5,new york dolls,john cale,flock of seagulls). sadly i just know the hits. >> The Byrds have been a really big favourite of mine for a long time now. Got into them in the 80s through the wimpier end of indie, and was immediately hooked. It's such an enormous body of work, given the fact that virtually everyone who was ever in the band was a songwriter. Bit like Wire in that respect - huge numbers of spin-offs/reunions etc. Not as good at reunions though :-) The Byrds were hugely prolific - most of it good but some duds. The first FIVE albums were eleased within a period of just over two years. First two albums (Mr Tambourine Man, Turn,turn,turn) are how most people see the Byrds - - jangly folk pop, lots of Dylan. Gene Clark's songs are the best at this point but some are dispatched to B-sides or not released for years. Third album - Fifth dimension - getting psychedelic. less Dylan, more Crosby. Has Eight Miles High. Fourth & fifth albums (Younger than Yesterday and Notorious Byrd Brothers) - both essential. Everything going on - use of the Moog, plus starting to get country (Chris Hillman songs for the first time). By now the band is basically McGuinn and Hillman, and it all changes - in comes Gram Parsons and voila - Sweetheart of the Rodeo. Straight country, and an acquired taste. Not the best starting point. Meanwhile the band changes again - Hillman and Parsons go off to form the Flying Burrito Brothers and McGuinn hires a whole new band (Clarence white, Gene Parsons, Skip Battin) which makes some duff albums like Dr Byrds and Mr Hyde, and Byrdmaniax (particularly bad, full of Skip Battin songs), but is awesome live. (Unititled) is essential. Mop up the best unreleased bits of the original line up on compilations - especially, if you can find it, Never Before. Alternatively later CD reissues of the albums have most of the good tracks tagged on the end. I'm not too keen on the box set. I'd also recommend most of Gene Clark's solo stuff. No Other is an extraordinary record and quite unlike anything you might imagine an ex-Byrd making. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:11:06 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: True Love Hi All. Please check out http://www.trueloverocks.com and check out the songs. I've known the drummer from True Love for about 5 years. He just started this band last year and their CD was just released last week. I am absofuckinglutely blown away by this stuff, and want feedback from anybody who checks it out. Just e-mail me, not the whole list, with your opinions. I play in two bands currently, so I hope you understand that plugging somebody else's band is something not every musician would do when they need to advertise themselves. Thanks, Carl notcarl@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:36:08 MST From: "Garrett Holway" Subject: tons of extraneous emails Hello idealcopy. Somehow I keep getting tons of emails (10-20 per day) that are addressed to idealcopy. Please look into this and let me know why this is occuring. Thank you. >From: Carl Archer >To: >Subject: True Love >Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:11:06 -0400 > >Hi All. Please check out http://www.trueloverocks.com and check out the >songs. I've known the drummer from True Love for about 5 years. He just >started this band last year and their CD was just released last week. I am >absofuckinglutely blown away by this stuff, and want feedback from anybody >who checks it out. Just e-mail me, not the whole list, with your opinions. >I play in two bands currently, so I hope you understand that plugging >somebody else's band is something not every musician would do when they >need >to advertise themselves. > >Thanks, >Carl >notcarl@home.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:28:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Idiot's guide to the Byrds On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > The Byrds have been a really big favourite of mine for a long time now. Got > into them in the 80s through the wimpier end of indie, and was immediately > hooked. It's such an enormous body of work, given the fact that virtually > everyone who was ever in the band was a songwriter. Bit like Wire in that > respect - huge numbers of spin-offs/reunions etc. Not as good at reunions If you can get past some of the lamer sixties-isms of some Byrds material, and recognize that what later became cliched was at the time stunningly original, there's very much to recommend them. They were a hugely innovative band, among the first at folk rock, incorporating Eastern musical influences, psychedelia, synthesizer, even country-rock... - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::we make everything you need, and you need everything we make:: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:31:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: tons of extraneous emails On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, Garrett Holway wrote: > Hello idealcopy. Somehow I keep getting tons of emails (10-20 per day) > that are addressed to idealcopy. Please look into this and let me know why > this is occuring. Thank you. We call it "conversation" - and it's what happens to a mailing list beyond a certain critical point when people get comfortable w/each other as people, not just as Fans of {subject}. Yes, the list has been *very* high-volume lately, in part because of renewed Wire activity of course - but these things are cyclical. A list that actively restricts itslef only to its nominal topic generally dies quickly. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::When the only tool you have is an interociter, you tend to treat ::everything as if it were a fourth-order nanodimensional sub-quantum ::temporo-spatial anomaly. __Crow T. Maslow__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:50:13 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: XTC and Magazine (again) > Obligatory Wire ref: Wire supported XTC, and Howard Devoto appeared in > Eardrum Buzz..... > > > Steve. What do you mean he appeared in Eardrum Buzz? - Did he sing backing vocals or what? Is it a gig you're talking about or the actual CD version? And speaking about live albums - even though IBTABA contains overdubs and therefore is not a strictly live album it may be the best one as far as I can remember. Besides, Peter Gabriel's Live album contains overdubs and is a very good example for a bad live album - no one would ever think of it as a studio album (or a good one). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:08:30 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Manicured Noise Never read Neil Stephenson so I can't tell. Basically it's social SF, meaning he's not dwelling on the science and technical details of the ideas, but on their social impact. His books are heavily saturated with psychedelic drugs - well, they are about drugs, all of them taking place in a near future Manchester. The Vurt series (three books so far) is mainly about a kind of a virtual reality drug which basically records and plays dreams. Vurts take the place of film and theatre and all kinds of entertainment, but of course, there are darker, weirder and more dangerous trips. On top of that, sometimes a participant in the Vurt experience can be traded for a Vurt creature, meaning that the participant stays stuck in the Vurt while the dream creature is stuck in the real world. Noon's heroes conform to the Cyberpunk rule of being streetwise kids representing alternative subcultures (as one of the heroes say in Pollen: "I don't make the rules, I just break them"). It is not the kind of SF that tries to predict the future but a metaphor on 90's drug induced rave scene, basically. I think I wrote more than enough. What's Stephenson like, then? giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Creatured > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 10:20 PM > To: IdealCopy > Subject: RE: Manicured Noise > > > I've never gotten around to reaing Noon's books. Are they like Neil > Stephensons Snow Crash and Diamond Age books? Those are excellent,i > think. > Rick > > > > --- giluz wrote: > > > Round and round....these cropped up a while back. I have their > > entire > > > recorded output (two 7inch singles). Basically they sound like a > > > more frantic > > > version of Talking Heads (circa Fear of Music) with added sax. The > > first > > > single (Faith/Freetime) is representative of their sound - the > > second > > > (Moscow/Metronome) is an instrumental. Moscow was intended to be an > > > alternative theme tune for the Olympics that year - Orange Juice > > > recorded a > > > tune in similar vein, trivia fans! > > > > > > MN had a female rhythm section. Came from Manchester, and existed > > > from about > > > 1979-81. I remember them playing a lot round that time but I > > > never saw them > > > live.... > > > > > > An excellent band - shame they never recorded anything else. There > > was no > > > album and they didn't even record a Peel session. Someone on the > > > list knows > > > more about them than I do. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > The reason I'm asking is that Jeff Noon, one of the MN members, is > > now an > > author, and a great one at that. I was just reading on the cover of > > one of > > his books, that he used to be in this band and wondered what they > > were like. > > If anyone's interested in Cyberpunk SF, heavily influenced by Philip > > K Dick, > > dealing mainly with drugs, alternative cultures and genetic > > engineering, > > they sould read his books. Vurt was his first novel, and one of the > > best > > I've ever read. His last one, called Needle In The Groove, is dealing > > with > > music, but I didn't get to read it yet. > > > > giluz > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:18:00 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: True Love > > Hi All. Please check out http://www.trueloverocks.com and check out the > songs. I've known the drummer from True Love for about 5 years. He just > started this band last year and their CD was just released last > week. I am > absofuckinglutely blown away by this stuff, and want feedback from anybody > who checks it out. Just e-mail me, not the whole list, with your > opinions. > I play in two bands currently, so I hope you understand that plugging > somebody else's band is something not every musician would do > when they need > to advertise themselves. > > Thanks, > Carl > notcarl@home.com > I checked it out, heard the three song samples, and yawned all through them. Sorry - not to my taste. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:23:55 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: New King Crimson I've noticed that there are a few King Crimson fans on the list. Well, apparently they have a new CD out. Heard it only once as yet, but the first reaction is disapointment, especially in comparison to their last 90's release. For the first time they soound anachronistic, boring and pompous. Same musical ideas, same guitar riffs, same lyrics. The things that are different changed for the worse: Guitar sound is now more trebly and with less distortion, drums sound like from a bottom of a tin can. I might be wrong, and this was only a first impression and I wasn't in a very good mood to begin with when I played it, but I doubt it. So beware and don't spend money on it unless you have a listen first. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:04:30 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: Replay as it were? >>>>> i recall go buddy go/5 minutes as being excellent but a lot of the rest of x-cert as not so clever. but it must be 10 years since i heard it so the memory is a little hazy.p Offhand ... hmmm ... The Stranglers' Live X Cert is a favorite. Can't think of any others, offhand. Though Stiffs Live is a great live *comp*. Dan ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #189 *******************************