From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #179 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, June 10 2000 Volume 03 : Number 179 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Re[2]: Granada TV ["Laurel G" ] Re: Re[2]: Granada TV [Carl Archer ] old snub tv videos (long lost) [sam charrington ] Re: old snub tv videos (long lost) ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re[2]: Granada TV ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: old snub tv videos (long lost) [Carl Archer ] poser chat [Katherine Pouliot ] Re: Exploited ["lucifersam" ] Keeping up with the times ["Laurel G" ] Re: misc. digest comments - now fireHOSE/House ["Laurel G" ] Elvis Costello, overrated [BOURGEOISIE ] Re: "The 4th album" (was Re: Garage (Saturday)) [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Re: 12DrillU ["tox" ] New list member [Andy Gower ] Fun At Yer? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Re: Re[2]: Granada TV > >*Ahem* Clearly, a poseur is anybody who got into the band after (checks >memory carefully) late May of '78. > >Dan > I plead the 5th Laurel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:48:29 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: Re[2]: Granada TV I was barely tall enough to pee standing up in May of '78. Besides, I was so young that I was thoroughly distracted by Star Wars, Smokey and The Bandit, 8-year-old girls, and disco. I didn't 'awaken' to music (besides the top 40 stuff) really until '81 or '82. Ironically, I have no idea what's popular now. I must be old. The first time I saw a picture of Sisqo I laughed. Honestly I never thought that I'd be the way at only 29... - -Carl > From: "tube disaster" > Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:00:41 -0700 > To: "Ideal Copy Mailing list" > Subject: Re: Re[2]: Granada TV > > > *Ahem* Clearly, a poseur is anybody who got into the band after (checks > memory carefully) late May of '78. > > Dan > > >> you are *such* a poser! j/k >> >> My first exposure was The Ideal Copy, then whatever followed. When Kidney >> Bingos came out I was not impressed at the time, and I probably purposely >> avoided seeing the videos for that and Eardrum Buzz - it seemed so > different >> and upbeat than what I was used to. How narrow minded that was. >> >> Katherine >> >>> From: Carl Archer >>> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 21:37:53 -0400 >>> To: Katherine Pouliot , ian barrett >>> , , >>> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Granada TV >>> >>> The Eardrum Buzz video was my first exposure to Wire. I was either in > high >>> school or had just started college. I didn't know what album it was on, > so >>> I bought the first Wire that I could find, which was On Returning. Some >>> dude that I used to commute to college with stole it. I didn't buy any > Wire >>> again until about 2 years ago. Does that make me a poser? I mean, I've > had >>> this little Wire torch which I've been carrying for about 10 or 11 years >>> now. >>> >>> Carl >> > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 09:01:10 -0400 (EDT) From: sam charrington Subject: old snub tv videos (long lost) if i remember rightly 'one of our girls' was directly before (or after?) world domination enterprises performing 'asbestos lead asbestos' outside the shell building as part of their pillars of pollution tour. one of THE great tv moments. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:36:35 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: old snub tv videos (long lost) >if i remember rightly 'one of our girls' was directly before (or after?) >world domination enterprises performing 'asbestos lead asbestos' outside the >shell building as part of their pillars of pollution tour. one of THE great >tv moments. What I'd give to hear "Asbestos Lead Asbestos" again....I can still remember that great guitar sound! I don't remember "One of Our Girls" on Snub TV (although I first heard "Just Talk" on the show) ...at the time I didn't even realise AC Marias were Wire related....In the Wire interview, when Colin was talking about 'the buzz in the ear' and how 'they' wouldn't shut up, I remember thinking that he was referring to Lewis and Gilbert....but maybe not.... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - -----Original Message----- From: sam charrington To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: 10 June 2000 14:04 Subject: old snub tv videos (long lost) > >______________________________________________ >FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com >Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:16:01 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re[2]: Granada TV >>>*Ahem* Clearly, a poseur is anybody who got into the band after (checks >>memory carefully) late May of '78. Got into Wire in 1986 when I was 18. Went around dropping the name 'Wire' into conversations and took delight in the fact that *nobody* had ever heard of them. Elitist nobhead, that was me... I took a 'friend' to the Sunday at the Garage. Having only ever seen Simply Red and that Netaid thing she was bewildered. She described Graham Lewis as 'scary'....she was right....He's reassured me that you don't necessarily lose "the fire" when you turn 30 (or 40)...... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:36:18 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: old snub tv videos (long lost) Does that have anything to do with the 'asbestos lead asbestos' that Meat Beat Manifesto did on Subliminal Sandwich? I need a new Wax Trax! T-shirt. If anybody knows where I can find a new one, please let me know. Thanks, Carl > From: sam charrington > Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 09:01:10 -0400 (EDT) > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: old snub tv videos (long lost) > > if i remember rightly 'one of our girls' was directly before (or after?) > world domination enterprises performing 'asbestos lead asbestos' outside the > shell building as part of their pillars of pollution tour. one of THE great > tv moments. > > ______________________________________________ > FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com > Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:04:47 -0400 From: Katherine Pouliot Subject: poser chat If being a *poseur* is this much fun, then let it continue!!! haahaahaa Thanks Carl - I'm only 1 year older than you. Unfortunately, I am aware of the top 40 stuff, whether I like it or not. Most of it I don't, especially SisQo or whatever his name is!! Take your thongs and shove 'em. haha I agree with you on being "this way" at such a young age. I have a 14 year old brother and I cringe at the stuff he is listening to and liking. I find myself not being such a cool older sis' because I'm so judgemental about all the crappy vulgar rap stuff out there. At least our generation had the cool Mtv when it began, and cool tv shows and movies, like Star Wars and Sesame Street, etc. Hey, let's not forget the funny Solid Gold and the dance show (Dance Fever??) with Danny Terrio. Incidentally, did you know they are now changing the name of Sesame Street to Sesame Workshop????? What is the world coming to??? Kath > From: Carl Archer > Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:48:29 -0400 > To: tube disaster , Ideal Copy Mailing list > > Subject: Re: Re[2]: Granada TV > > I was barely tall enough to pee standing up in May of '78. Besides, I was > so young that I was thoroughly distracted by Star Wars, Smokey and The > Bandit, 8-year-old girls, and disco. I didn't 'awaken' to music (besides > the top 40 stuff) really until '81 or '82. Ironically, I have no idea > what's popular now. I must be old. The first time I saw a picture of Sisqo > I laughed. Honestly I never thought that I'd be the way at only 29... > > -Carl > >> From: "tube disaster" >> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:00:41 -0700 >> To: "Ideal Copy Mailing list" >> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Granada TV >> >> >> *Ahem* Clearly, a poseur is anybody who got into the band after (checks >> memory carefully) late May of '78. >> >> Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:32:25 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Exploited I'd say twitching more than fighting mate! > Cat, > > Going down fighting!!!!! That's the spirit..... > > Happy birthday mate.... > > Mark (40 in about four and a half months...aaargh!!) > > << << because it was wankers like these who turned > what was a pure and honest movement, into a cartoon cliche. Stupid > Mowhawk haircuts and the uniform Leather Jacket. Wankers, Scum..die > die die... > > >It meant more than that.......;-) > The Siam Cat..........close to death.... >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:14:58 CDT From: "Laurel G" Subject: Keeping up with the times I've made the point on other lists that I think it's really important to accept, get to know and understand current music - I've also made the point that if I had just developed my music tastes to a certain point in my life and not progressed, I'd probably still be a hippie, hugging trees and singing Kumbaya, or a pathetic ageing deadhead, or a big hair caked makeup die hard 80s rocker - and if I hadn't pursued contemporary music I'd never had found punk - I mean, think about it - I was out of HS when punk hit the scene - I didn't go on to college then - and I worked in the metal club scene - if I hadn't gone out of my way, and been determined to keep up with things, punk would have passed me by and I really think if you're going to talk intelligently about music, you have to be familiar with all kinds of music - if you don't know where it's been, how can you figure out where it's at or where it's going? and if you don't know different styles, then you're missing so much of what influences certain musicians, or songs, or genres in general - because so many bands use influences and songs from other genres - a lot of punk bands cover C & W songs, C & W artists cover "pop" songs, Metallica uses symhony orchestras, etc. etc. - I think if you really want to understand an artist, you have to understand their influences and how/where their style developed Of course, there's something to be said for who cares, I like it or I don't - - that's all it comes down to for listening and enjoying the other thing is, I don't want to become the parents we couldn't stand as kids (not mine, mine were ahead of me sometimes)that refused to even listen to it, much less understand it - and put it down to boot in essence, I want to be like Dan when I grow up Laurel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:17:01 CDT From: "Laurel G" Subject: Re: misc. digest comments - now fireHOSE/House >Laurel, > >haha... they say the memory is the first thing to go, right?? Yes, and good thing too - if my memory hadn't gone first, I can't imagine how I'd feel if I could remember what the rest of me looked like before IT went!!!! >I know a friend of a friend named Laurel who lives near Boston, so I keep >thinking you may have been her. You never know, right? No, you never do - there are plenty of small world stories, and it's not like Laurel is that common a name So, I know that >I can't stone you or anyone else for having a few heavy metal hair or >otherwise 80's music faves. I've already been stoned to death for >mentioning that I liked ELO back in the late 70's! hahhahaa Ah, but you came back at them like a champ *L >later, >Kath Laurel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:22:52 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Review of The Ideal Copy, Ahead EP, SnakeDrill EP, and Commercial Suicide in Creem Mag from September 1987 I just found this magazine in an old dusty box of mine. I bought the magazine for a large feature on The Replacements, but didn't notice the WIRE reviews until today. If it's of any use to anybody, let me know. I'll transcribe it or make an attempt at scanning and hoping that OCR works. - -Carl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:38:08 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: follow the bounced balls I've had an extremely busy ten days and haven't had time to keep up with the Internet during that span. Yesterday afternoon was the first time I'd had a chance to check my e-mail in a week! Anyway, I'm catching up with bounced messages now, so if you see some posts with wonky dates, no, you're not living in the past, but I am. Apologies to those whose messages never showed up; I'll send off-list e-mails to explain the particulars. Oh, and TIN MACHINE is a terrific album, best thing Bowie's done since SCARY MONSTERS. I played it in the car all last week just to see if I'd been wrong about it, and ended up digging it more than ever. "I Can't Read" in particular is fine, fine work. waiting for his IT'S ALL IN THE BROCHUREs to turn up in the mailbox, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:27:30 -0700 (PDT) From: BOURGEOISIE Subject: Elvis Costello, overrated Image - The unstable Buddy Holly Music - Punk "adult contemporarified" for the Saturday Night Live crowd or for people who wanted to get into punk, but who were to afraid to go to a punk show for fear they would be beaten up (though that was an illegitimate fear). Some songs should contain warning sticker "Beware of obviously over earnest lyrics." With that said, I don't think he's horrible, he was an interesting alternative to punk, but I just don't think he's a genius. Robert. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:13:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: "The 4th album" (was Re: Garage (Saturday)) Excellent! But here's another addition. I've heard an early version of "Cancel Your Order" (from Dome 1) by Wire. It would have been entirely appropriate for D&E. Excerpts from mail: 1-Jun-100 "The 4th album" (was Re: Ga.. by MarkBursa@aol.com > Try this for a track listing (which really works!) for Wire's 1980-vintage > fourth album: > > Side 1 (vinyl only of course, CDs not yet invented..) > > 5/10 > Our Swimmer > Safe > Relationship > The Spare One > Lorries > Part of Our History > > Side 2 > > Ally in Exile > Underwater experiences > Witness to the fact > Over my head > Revealing trade secrets > And then... > Coda (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "I've been known to dabble." -007 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:03:45 +0100 From: bmgs@pollyanna.demon.co.uk (Iain & Bunny Smedley) Subject: Garage - Sunday (on returning) Just got back from Wire at the Garage. Totally superb - very tight playing, excellent drums in particular. Opened with some saxophones (Terry Edwards + 1 other) and electronics (really, including drums), into a song I didn't recognise (anyone else on the list any wiser?) - noisy but structured, with Graham Lewis vocals. Set list was something like: [new one?] Heartbeat 12XU Mercy Hypnotised Lowdown Advantage in Height 40 Versions Boiling Boy Pink Flag ... and I'm sure there were more than that, as they played for over an hour. Sadly no encore, and sadly no Drill. However, a great concert, and much better in the intimate atmosphere of the Garage than at the RFH. Merchandise available included 3 t-shirts (pink flag, A-list and a new one with the same graphic as the RFH CD) and the same objects and CDs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:06:55 +0100 From: "Bob Swan" Subject: Re: Londons Burning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Me too! Sandinista is, as Strummer says on the Westway to the World video, "magnificent". I agree there are numerous filler tracks on there, but that still leaves more than enough good stuff to fill a standard double album. I've never attempted to listen to the whole thing right through! BobS - -----Original Message----- From: giluz To: IdealCopy Date: 01 June 2000 09:18 Subject: RE: Londons Burning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > >> I actually like Sandanista. Well, not all of it, but what a >> fantastic thing >> to do. Did you see Strummer talking about Sandanista on the recent >> documentary? How it was a product of all the stuff they were into >> - from dub >> to blues to jazz to country to pub rock to proto-hip hop. Recorded in a >> couple of weeks and they just put it all out, no editing. Let the >> buyer work >> it out. OK, nobody I know (myself included) likes it all. > >Hey, I do. > >giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:53:35 +0100 From: "Bob Swan" Subject: Re: /Wattie/dreams/can Wattie is in fact from Edinburgh, so it's more like a Begbie accent you have to imagine - though Begbie was from Leith and a Hibby, whereas Wattie is a Jambo (all of which is probably totally meaningless to anyone outwith Scotland, and a good few from within as well). Big John, however, is a Glaswegian and according to an interview in Sounds from around The Exploited heyday, his reason for moving through to Edinburgh was entirely due to the shortage of baked potato shops in Glasgow. BobS - -----Original Message----- From: Howard Spencer To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: 07 June 2000 14:54 Subject: Re: /Wattie/dreams/can >I remember when Wattie from the Exploited was asked why Big John had >been sacked - his reply, `Och, he's too faaaat' (say it in Glasweigan). >Big John was once in altered images, I believe. > >Bruce has done one of the Can remixes on 'Sacrelege' - can't remember >which track, but it is very minimal indeed. I've never found can as >appealing as Neu, apart from 'You doo right', which is a popsong. >Perhaps i should try again. > >Howard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 09:40:01 +0100 From: "tox" Subject: Re: 12DrillU I saw them in 1990 at The Queen's Hall in Edinburgh. Me and a friend standing right in front of stage and being just about deafened for life by an incredibly loud piece, which I only managed to identify several days later as being Underwater Experiences. They also did 12DrillU which we both thought was hugely amusing. BobS - -----Original Message----- From: sean bowen To: ideal copy Date: 02 June 2000 22:24 Subject: Re: 12DrillU >Paul, > Do you reckon the Bristol '12DrillU' is the one on the CD accompanying >the 'Exploded Views' book ? > If so, then I agree, it's really good. But even better, in my opinion, >is the 1990 update of 'Underwater Experiences' on the same disc. Totally >manic. Fascinating evolution from the original demo on 'Behind the Curtain', >through the live '79 versions on D&E. Each so different, and each so >brilliant. > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: ; ; >Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 9:58 AM >Subject: Re[2]: Garage (Saturday) > > >> >> When they played live as Wir (but billed as Wire...) in 1990 they >performed a piece called 12DrillU, which was a bastard offspring off the >two. Amusing, but throwaway. >> >> Mark >> >>>>> i really liked that. it was a mixture of the two plus tecnotronic's >"this beat is technotronic" , so you got "this beat is , this beat is , this >beat is 12drillu". i thought that was pretty inspired. certainly got the >crowd going at the gig i was at (bristol). p >> > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 23:33:02 -0700 From: Andy Gower Subject: New list member >2) Send us a happy, chirpy initial post right after you subscribe, saying >who you are, how you became interested in Wire, favorite albums & songs, etc. Hi y'all, here's my happy, chirpy post! I learned about Wire through good reviews (Spin Alternative Record Guide, Robert Christgau's books, etc.) raving about the first three albums, so I checked out _Pink Flag_, then _Chairs Missing_, then _154_. My favorite is probably _CM_, but _PF_ is great too. I recently ordered _A Bell..._ & Colin Newman's _A-Z_, and they will be my first forays into post-breakup material. I have been meaning to check out some of the solo stuff from WMO, but I don't which stuff to get. Any recommendations or reviews out there? My other musical addictions are Guided By Voices & King Crimson. Recently, I have been getting into Can, so I noticed the references in the last digest to the video. I have the live CD on MP3, but I prefer the albums. I recently bought their first six albums and they're all great (Jaki is God!). How professional does the video look? I joined this list because I figured Wire fans would be pretty civilized and have varied taste in music. I also was reading the Wire bio by Kevin Eden, and realized how they were a group of artists with such integrity. Reading the chapters on Bruce's & Graham's installations and exhibits indicated a true curiosity for art, something I share (the curiosity, not the talent or ability!) I'd also like to hear commentary on the new Wire tour. Good, bad, indifferent? I heard someone elsewhere complain about the London(?) show that included dancing and other artistic endeavours, but I also heard someone rave about their more conventional shows across North America. (Damn, I wish they were coming to Vancouver!) Also, leaving _Dot Dash_ off the reissues of the first three albums was a fucking shame! I heard rumours of a Wire box set of the first period released through Mute. Are they still rumours? Andy Gower, "Macho Business Donkey Wrestler" agower@telus.net Vancouver, Canada http://a3a87000.sympatico.bconnected.net/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 23:48:07 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Fun At Yer? WIRE set the copy straight 28/5/2000 GAR: Recently there has been some disagreement over the lyrics to A Serious of Snakes. I always thought it was "I'd rather make furniture than go to midnight mass!" but some people are insisting it's "make fun at yer." EGL: It's so bloody obvious! What-did-Jesus-DO? CN1: Joseph! Joseph was the carpenter! EGL: Oh yeah, Jesus was the one that HUNG on the furniture. GAR: I bet he got up to some carpentry as well. EGL: He helped his dad didn't he? If he was a good boy! BCG: If he was a real person. EGL: If he was a real person. Or he could've been trying to make furniture when he got the nails through his hands. CN1 (with an incredulous jovial sneer): "I'd rather make fun at yer?!?" It's like when we played America the first time people thought Sand In My Joints was Send Him My Joints. Ooh rock AND roll… NB> Graham can't have heard this misappropriation of his first lead vocal and lets out a hearty chuckle. At least Americans didn't pre-empt Christmas carpentry by Sanding My Joists. EGL: It's a Christmas carol. NB> "Baby trains, baby returns, baby kills Mary and Joseph." And a publican shouts insults to evacuate drunks: "You tulip, you pea brained earwhig, you punk, you silver tongued… Shnake!" A Serious of Snakes - dropped from the set after the RFH because, in the words of Colin, "It was boring!" GAR: If you don't have the lyric sheets then some of the words on Pink Flag and Chairs missing are quite hard to make out. CN1: I've come to realise that people now have CD's that don't have the lyrics on. The original records had the lyrics on. EGL: Well they can just make it up! I remember - I'm going to get this wrong - on Purple Haze by Hendrix that up until about three years ago I thought it was "'Scuse me while I kiss the sky." Or was it "Scuse me while I kiss this guy"? GAR: I always thought it was "the sky." CN1: I thought it was "Kiss the sky." EGL: I always thought it was "Scuse me while I kiss this guy!" BCG: I always took it to be that, but I assumed. I thought, "It's funny that." EGL: Yeah, it's so weird! I was singing along with it with my brother in law who's a Hendrix freak who's like, "Ang about! You can't do that!" GAR: Then there's the crap joke version, "Scuse me while I puke and die. CN1: Hmmm… EGL (HEAVY laden sarcasm): Yes. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. NB> Is this most trivial a Wire interview has gotten? Could've gotten sillier. Could've mentioned American Wire fans listening to Generation-X mishearing Wild Youth as Wild Jews or Wild Juice or even Wire Juice. Or man who thought wire recorder was 'why a recorder?' Or classic Captain Bee Fart boo boo. Then Graham might've split his sides... GAR: Somebody mentioned recently that all the tracks on Bastard had lyrics originally and you erased them which I didn't think was the case. CN1: That's complete and utter rubbish. GAR: People make up all this misinformation. EGL: They mustn't have very much to do!! The above is excerpt of interview for Cracked Machine 2 (www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine). Despite being funny it might well get the chop as there is a lot more of it. However since this section was inspired by Ideal Copy discussion I thought some of you at least would like to see it. I've also written a review of the three Garage nights which ended the 'retrospective' which will appear on the Wireviews page quite soon Send Me Your Joints, Fibreglass Messiah. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:56:20 EDT From: VoxxJaguar@aol.com Subject: Wire Interview (longish) By Joshua Klein Though initially identified with acts such as The Sex Pistols and The Damned, the British band Wire quickly abandoned punk and delved into the world of experimental sonic exploration. The band's first three albums--1977's Pink Flag, 1978's Chairs Missing, and 1979's 154--sounded years ahead of their time, and even now few have matched Wire's mix of pop hooks, punk attitude, oblique song structure, and art-student savvy. Perhaps it's fitting, then, that the band recently reformed for a short tour, where it will play songs from throughout its career, which it had abandoned in favor of esoteric side projects--or, in the case of drummer Robert Gotobed, organic farming. There are even plans for a studio project with producer Steve Albini. The Onion A.V. Club recently spoke with Wire members Bruce Gilbert (guitar) and Graham Lewis (bass and vocals) about the past, the reunion, and the foreseeable future of Wire. Recommended Wire Listening: Wire, Pink Flag Wire, Chairs Missing Wire, 154 Wire, The Ideal Copy Wire, 1985-1990: The A List Colin Newman, A-Z Dome, 1/2 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -- Part One: Bruce Gilbert The Onion: Throughout Wire's career, you guys have always progressed, for better or for worse. But this tour may be your first step backward. Bruce Gilbert: Well, we're totally aware it's not a step forward. Basically, we decided to... We only came together again to do one show, really, which was the Royal Festival Hall, and the first thing that fazed us was, obviously, what should we do? There was the issue of practicality: limited rehearsal time, and so on. None of us played guitars anymore, that kind of thing, and we were using a live drummer. Robert was going to play his drum kit and he wasn't going to do anything else. [Laughs.] We decided the drums-and-guitars form was the one we were going to use, and it occurred to us that it could be interesting to do something we had never, ever done before, which was to play old material. So that became the approach. The fact that we're going to do a little bit of touring probably comes from the notion that, having made this retrospective object, it could be fun to use it for a little while and explore it. And, obviously, while one is touring, one gets slightly better at playing these things: They're old, but you have to remember that we haven't played them for 20 years, and they might get more interesting as we progress through the tour. There's an element of curiosity here, as well as fun. O: Discounting rehearsals and the few shows you've done so far, when was the last time you played these songs? BG: As a four-piece, it was more than 10 years ago, I think. O: How often have you actually thought about the songs when you weren't playing them? BG: Never. Don't listen to them. It was all rather strange. Very, very strange. Because we looked at what our recorded output had been and went through and decided what was achievable, given the orthodox line-up, and what we actually enjoyed, as we struggled through it trying to remember how they went. O: Before you began touring again, rumors spread that you would just be doing material from the first three albums. But you've also included a great deal of '80s material. Why did you decide to excise the electronics from the latter songs? BG: Like I said, we were looking for achievable ends, and Robert was the one who said, in the end, yes. Without him, we wouldn't have even started thinking about this. He plays acoustic drums, and there it is. There's no escape from that. [Laughs.] This current activity is not what I would call creative activity. It's more like a retrospective exhibition. "I was not looking forward to playing the guitar again, it has to be said. But, having been forced to do it, it's quite nice to get in touch with a far more physical way of approaching sound again." O: Is it still fun for you? BG: In certain ways it is. I was not looking forward to playing the guitar again, it has to be said. But, having been forced to do it, it's quite nice to get in touch with a far more physical way of approaching sound again. It's playing with other people in a much more visceral way. O: I'm intrigued that you would name fun as one of your goals. Wire was one of the few bands that actively sought to challenge its listeners and force its listeners to progress along with the band. I never thought fun was part of the equation. BG: We have never done anything unless it's been fun. I mean, there are all sorts of different ways of having fun. Sometimes it is by disturbing and challenging an audience, but internally it's always been a question of fun with a large "F," I think. I think we may be challenging the audience by playing old things. At the Festival Hall, there were some very disappointed souls who thought we were somehow traitors for playing old things. [Laughs.] But these are people who have never seen us live, and they've never seen us when we were playing the old things. It's an idea we had given them, and we took it back, thank you. O: I see that the British press has already driven the knife in after praising you to the heavens. BG: [Laughs.] Nothing new there. O: What was the reaction to Wire in the late '70s, as you began to move away from punk and into a more unusual direction? Was there much crossover between your audience and, say, that of The Sex Pistols? BG: You have to remember that our audience has always been slightly confrontational, even when we were in the earlier stage. We appeared to be playing a style of material where they might recognize the, shall we say, texture. We've never really satisfied any audience; we've always satisfied ourselves. I don't think we've ever considered the audience at all, so that crossover situation has something to do with the internal creativity of the group and nothing to do with the audiences. It's not something we've ever thought about. O: What did you think keyboards, synthesizers, and drum machines could offer that acoustic instruments could not? BG: For starters, we're not really musicians, and we all have an interest--at least most of us do--in sound for its own sake. With technology, obviously one has more options for forming different textures and different ways of creating music, or creating sound itself. For my own purposes, I've always viewed the guitar as a way of exploring sound, and to switch to technology is completely natural. In fact, before I picked up the guitar, I was using tone generators and loops, so I don't see a whole lot of difference between guitars and technology, except that they're operated in different ways. O: There have always been two sides to Wire's music: pop songs and experiments. Since the songwriting was at least partly collaborative, did you know beforehand which direction a song would progress? BG: I think there were so many ways of coming up with material that very few of these things were predictable in that way. There were a couple of occasions where Colin [Newman, guitar and vocals] had a chord sequence of some kind which was attractive in some way. But everything that somebody has brought in in the past has always been mutated in some way, or kicked around like a football. Some of these things became more simplified and turned to more sonic pieces, and some became more active or had a strange pop quality, which always made us laugh. When that happened, and the things sounded more like pop, it made us laugh so much we felt it was kind of inevitable to pursue it as a pop-styled song. Irony comes very easy. O: Do you think it's more difficult to challenge somebody or please them? BG: It's very strange: I think in some ways it's easier to challenge. I hate to talk about generations, but it seems to me--perhaps it's always been like this, but I never noticed it--that "younger people," if I dare use that phrase, seem to be much more easily shocked. Not because something's new, but because it's something they haven't expected. [Laughs.] It's not laid out for them. O: You need modesty to take risks, because you can always write Pink Flag over and over again, even though it might not be satisfying. Still, it must be constantly inspirational that Wire's older material has inspired so many others. BG: Yes, it is flattering in some ways. But the way I always view it is that it's more flattering when somebody mentions the fact that they started a project because they heard we weren't really musicians. I think that's a far more interesting thing, rather than taking a stylistic element from the material and then exploiting that. But that's okay, as well; it's part of the pattern. That's always happened in music and every other form of art. O: A lot of contemporary musicians have taken your work as a mandate to write new rules. No matter what anyone says, musicians have yet to hit a wall in terms of creativity. BG: The idea is a strange one, isn't it? The idea that change is desirable broke out of the little experimental areas into slightly more overground areas because of things like punk. I think that's healthy, but we all know that some people thought punk was a style that was entrenched and something one could pursue as a career. [Laughs.] O: Will there always be people bucking the system? BG: I think there's definitely still a notion, especially in Europe, of creating hybrids out of existing things and progressing that way, especially in the club music and dance music. There's always an air of competition, that you can create the strangest hybrid. I think that can only be good. It may be tricky in America at the moment. I don't know what the club scene in America is about, or if it even exists, but I think once this creative approach has a moment, the approach becomes more and more inevitable. It becomes part of a general cultural picture, a desire to progress. It is desirable. O: How aware are you of what other musicians are doing? "I made a decision a long time ago to stop consuming music when I had the opportunity to start making records on my own." BG: I have to admit that I don't consume music at all. I seem to be exposed to quite a bit of it. But I made a decision a long time ago to stop consuming music when I had the opportunity to start making records of my own. I found that the records I gravitated toward were in an area I found I might be working in, so I stopped listening to that material immediately. But I do go to see live groups. I've always preferred to do that rather than listen to records. In the environment I live in, London, one is constantly surrounded by things one can go and see. Also, I do DJ from time to time, and although I don't listen to the material before I mix and execute it, my approach to these things is obviously another way I get exposed to people's music. The different genres and subgenres of club music are something I have no real knowledge of. I just react in a very simple way to these sorts of things: Some things I find very exciting, other things I find quite lame. That's my approach to other people's material. O: DJing allows you to work with music within a set of parameters: You can't change the music, but you can change aspects of it. Obviously, there are similarities in how a band approaches its music live: You don't have the unlimited benefits of the studio, but you do have the benefit of spontaneity. In what ways do you think playing live benefits Wire? BG: I think we always... This is one of those questions that's not answerable now; I can only answer from what we've done in the past. Playing live has always helped, because as one becomes more proficient in executing the items, or one gets bored of a particular part, you have more confidence to change it because you are so familiar with it. On the other hand, mistakes have always been very instructive for Wire. When something's gone terribly wrong in a Wire song, quite often it's been incorporated in the next evening, the next club. It's live, so it's uncontrollable, so it's always interesting. In my own electronic work, I never know what I'm going to do. I want to keep those moments strictly in real time. I can't repeat a good mixing moment when I'm DJing, or a bizarre collision of things or settings when I'm doing my electronic stuff. I like to live that particular moment, and playing live with three other people, there's more opportunity for things like that to happen. So it can be good. O: Is proficiency the enemy of spontaneity? BG: I think it depends, really. Some people would argue that proficiency allows more spontaneity. I think it depends on what your original approach to these things is, really. There are what I would call "proper" musicians for whom spontaneity is of no interest, and proficiency is all. O: Which Wire album has aged the best? BG: I really couldn't say. I'm tempted to say the first time I heard Wire was when we played it about three months ago, when we started rehearsing. [Laughs.] That was the first time I had listened to the material in ages, almost only for technical purposes. I recognize it when I hear it, but I don't know it. I can't look back on it. I certainly don't consume my music. O: It must be interesting to approach your music as if it were not your music. BG: It has been very useful to be able to say, on a practical level, "Can I play that? Can I copy that?" [Laughs.] We've never copied other people's material. We're in this very strange position of learning songs from records. [Laughs.] O: You're the world's best Wire cover band. Which member of Wire do you think has aged the best? BG: Robert has. His drumming is as good as it ever was, if not better, and he's strong, fit, and healthy. He has an even healthier approach to music, because it's not something he spends his time worrying about. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -- Part Two: Graham Lewis The Onion: Is it strange that this Wire reunion seems to have come together so quickly? GL: Well, what can I say? Yes and no. I did an interview about a year ago with a guy for a university radio show here in Sweden, and I ended it with an emphatic, "No, there will not be another Wire. I don't think there's any necessity for it at all." [Laughs.] Which seemed to almost do the trick, really. O: Obviously, there's a Wire again, but is there a necessity for it? GL: [Pauses.] Yes. O: What does Wire have to offer now that it didn't offer 20 years ago? GL: Digits. It's 20 years later, really. I know that sounds a bit facile, but that's the truth of it. O: This seems like the first time Wire has stepped back rather than progressed. GL: These words are highly charged. "Progress" is a sort of peculiar one in this day and age. I think to have the opportunity--because it is something we've never done before--to actually review the body of work that we have, retrospectively, was a good enough thing in itself. But included in that was what we're doing now. Really, it's about interpretation, isn't it? I think if you were to go back and try to slavishly reinvent or facsimilate the past, yeah, it would be a waste of fucking space. But that's not really what we're up to. There's material that we haven't played for 21 years. That's kind of strange. I don't think that happens very often. O: When you go back and listen to the old material, are you distanced from it enough that it sounds like listening to someone else? GL: No, I still feel completely guilty about it. What did happen when we started this process was that we wrote up a list of things to consider, that we wanted to play. Then it was, "No, yeah, no, no, no, possibly." We listened to things and went, "No, never, no interest in that, that's done, that was then, that was about then. That kind of harmonic, that kind of construction was about then. We did that. We got that. Can't do that anymore. Not interested." Then, when we actually got down to playing and arranging things, of course we had a very, very different perspective of rhythm, of the sonic landscape we now live in. So basically what we've taken is those compositions, and sometimes some things are very close to the original arrangement and other things aren't. But there's never been an attempt to do the record, you know? It's always been an interpretation of something that's very much for the moment. O: One of the more interesting aspects of Wire was the band's attempt to mix obvious pop songs with more challenging pieces. That strategy makes some of the music pretty timeless. How did Wire balance those disparate approaches to songwriting? GL: It was never the way it just ended up. It always became apparent pretty quickly [which direction the music would go], regardless of what it was that actually started it off. At that time we were very... Particularly Colin and I were very interested in that form of music, because that was what we grew up with. So we were very fascinated with that "thing," the pop song. O: At what point did fans of the band, attracted to the punk elements the music initially shared with your peers, begin to suspect you were up to something different? GL: About 1985, probably. O: Once the electronics were incorporated? GL: [Laughs.] No, what I meant was that I don't think they were aware or gave a fuck, actually. The Pistols made some good singles, but musically it was always rock 'n' roll. And The Clash subsequently proved that to be the case, as well, very quickly. And The Damned produced probably one of the best punk singles, "A New Rose," and they got their album out first, but we were always separate from it. We never felt that we were part of that scene. We didn't socialize with those people. We were getting on with what we were doing, really. We were far more aware of what everybody was doing, but what interested us more was the experiments Eno was doing with Bowie, very much the work that was coming out of the States. Pere Ubu, early Talking Heads, very early Devo. Obviously, stuff coming out of Europe on the other side--Kraftwerk, stuff like that. That was what was informing us. O: That's why I think Wire has continued to sound interesting: Even the old records don't sound dated. GL: I do have to say that, though that is true, there are certain things that are very much of their time. But I think right from the beginning everyone was conscious, and there was a great deal of effort made--with the collaboration with [producer] Mike Thorne--that we were trying to make something that would last. It wasn't like, "Oh, we'd better get this out and then we might be rich and famous." It was simplicity. O: Very few bands have progressed quite as radically as Wire. GL: It's not what careers are made of, no. O: But you've made a career of it. "That's what artists do... You try to do what you believe is right at the time. It's not following the carrot or whatever that might be." GL: I think what everyone has done is defined their lives by their work. That's what artists do. It's a serious consideration: You try to do what you believe is right at the time. It's not following the carrot or whatever that might be. O: What did electronics offer that drums and guitars couldn't? GL: New sound. Possibilities. Things you can't do. But the technology really developed in the '80s, that explosion of possibilities. That was what was going on, so that's obviously what one is interested in. What can we do with this, you know? O: On the current tour, though, it's back to basics. GL: Yes. It's a very obvious process, really. We had a relatively short period to organize this, to come together to do what we're doing, and guitars-and-drums is a very direct way of doing things. Robert likes to play the drums, and technology has moved on in the area of how guitars sound. It seemed to be the thing to do. We didn't want to get too encumbered with loads of technology. We wanted something pretty mobile, something we could go to places with and travel light, rather than saddling ourselves with a machine that takes a lot of high maintenance. O: You've all played many different styles of music since the late '70s. Was it easy or difficult to return to just guitars and drums? GL: It was quite hard, actually. Having made music for a long period of time, 10 years or so, with one finger and a brain, there was the physical aspect of it. But there is something very special about guitars. You get a very instant result. O: Does it help or hinder the composition process to be proficient? GL: I don't know if I'm equipped to answer that question. [Laughs.] Let's put it this way: Virtuosity has never been a problem, because it's never been attained. [Laughs.] I think it's conducive to a certain kind of work, yeah, but for us being musicians... We've had to be musicians in order to create, or recreate, the ideas we had. It's not the number-one thing, but you have to acquire skills in order to realize the idea. That way around, rather than, "Wow, I have this incredible technique; now what am I going to do? I think you write songs with these things..." That's not really the way we see it. O: Would you consider Wire subversive? GL: I think it was always in the brochure. I think the attitude was one of... One wants to encourage people to do things for themselves and do it the way they want to do it. If that's subversive, then absolutely. O: Most people in America haven't had a chance to see you live. GL: There's another generation, yeah. O: What do you think of the lasting effect Wire has had on new generations and new musicians? "One hopes that one's work is useful and informative, and inspires people to do things, and that they find uses for it." GL: Obviously, it's flattering. It wasn't our intention, but it's flattering. One hopes that one's work is useful and informative, and inspires people to do things, and that they find uses for it. People continually tell me about uses they've found for it. [Laughs.] O: Though you've generally continued to move beyond the material most people have found most useful. GL: It's the nature of the beast. That was in the brochure from the very beginning. We meant it when we said we wanted to change. That's what it's all about. You want to grow and you want to change. You want to change as a person. You want to be a better artist. And the only way you can do that is by confronting new problems and trying to incorporate new influences. O: How do you think Wire has changed the music around it? GL: In a way, I think that's for other people to answer. In some ways, what I hope is that it's sort of raised; if you're involved with this thing called music, if it's something you take seriously, then you've got to be part of it, because it's an incredible artistic tradition. Of course, it is marvelous if you can actually leave it in a better place than you thought it was when you came upon it. O: I'd say you've proven that you can sustain a career by challenging people. That means people have changed with you. GL: Well, not all of them. I think what happens over time is that there are people who stay and people who go. People return and new people come. That's the organic process. But, yeah, there are people--the fundamentalists--who stayed. [Laughs.] O: There are bands that shouldn't continue to make music... GL: [Laughs.] God, I don't think we have enough time to name all of them! O: But Wire should continue, because you're all so likeminded in your quest for new ideas. GL: Likeminded? Well, I think it's like you said at the beginning: How can it come back together again, and is there a need? I think you have very different individuals with very different views, and when there is a Wire, there is a possibility to have a conversation, a discussion with some common ground. I think there were periods after the first three albums where it got to the point where there were various reasons around it--with regard to record companies and things like that--but the biggest problem we had was how to get a gallon into a pint glass. It doesn't work. People have ideas, and if you don't pursue them, you get frustrated. And if you get frustrated, you don't work very well, you know? I think every time the Wire process has come to a stop, everybody's gone for what they themselves needed to do. It's free in that way. You don't have to like what people do, but you have to do what you think is right. O: What lies in Wire's future? GL: We're going to stop off in Chicago for a few days to put something down with Mr. [Steve] Albini in his studio. We just saw Steve, and we all talked and went, "Yes, we'll give it a go." I'm not really sure what it's for. If we keep doing the set we're doing now, it could be for a full-length, but everyone's keeping an open mind about it. The plan is to make the recordings. Making product at the moment is a very secondary thing. We've put out one EP, and there's going to be another one which is sort of a sampler record of the Royal Festival Hall show that we did, with the different aspects of the things we did there, not just Wire. That's the next thing, and if it goes well with Steve, there'll be another thing. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #179 *******************************