From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #173 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, June 7 2000 Volume 03 : Number 173 Today's Subjects: ----------------- anarcho hello [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #169 [Howard Spencer ] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #169 [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: anarcho hello [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #169 [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[2]: anarcho hello [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[2]: anarcho hello ["Uri Baran" ] Re[4]: anarcho hello [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[4]: anarcho hello [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re[6]: anarcho hello [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[6]: anarcho hello [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[6]: anarcho hello ["tube disaster" ] Re: anarcho hello ["tube disaster" ] Exploded Forms [flaherty michael w ] Canibalism..... ["lucifersam" ] RE: Krautrock ["webmaster" ] RE: Krautrock ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:32:04 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: anarcho hello forgot to say before that the superstar turnout at the garage was a little poor , the only notable faces i saw were michael clark (sat and sun) and on sat there was the subhumans singer , still looking exactly the same as early 80's. i think it was him shouting for more "manscape" numbers but i could be mistaken here. actually it was really funny how all the "punks not dead" types came on saturday not sunday ; i wonder why? wonder what these guys in well-worn stranglers/vibrators t-shirts made of that encore?p ps ; gang of 4 "shrinkwrapped" ; not bad at all ! pleasantly surprised i must say , its got some real attitude. given some of the crap andy gill has ended up working with that was a pretty impressive return to form. well worth my quid. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:52:05 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #169 "I thought those gigs were hilarious - I saw the Mean Fiddler gig (indeed, last time I saw Wire until the RFH...) I liked the idiot dancing during 'Naked whooping and such like' and also enjoyed seeing Bruce do a live vocal. He sat down and put on his glasses to sing. Inspired" Glad someone else was at the mean fiddler. Sadly I don't remember the Bruce vocal, though i do remember the cream suit he wore. It was before the release of TFLetter I think - certainly the songs were unfamiliar to me at the time. I especially remember 'footsi footsi' - Graham singing into two different mikes for varied vocal effects. He was very much centrestage, the lead singer. The sound was loud and clean, and by God, it was good. I think I left halfway through 12drill, like an idiot, to make the last tube and save the price of a cab fare. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:20:26 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #169 Howard, << I especially remember 'footsi footsi' - Graham singing into two different mikes for varied vocal effects. He was very much centrestage, the lead singer. >> Very much so. Another reason why I consider Wir as a very different band to Wire.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:28:55 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: anarcho hello Paul, << actually it was really funny how all the "punks not dead" types came on saturday not sunday ; i wonder why? >> Possible reasons: 1:They all had to be back on the trading floor at the Futures Market on Monday, 6am sharp 2:They go to church on Sunday 3:Their mums only let them get punked up once a week 4:They were actors, paid by Wire to add 'ambience'. Couldn't afford more than one night. 5: The old knees can't take two nights pogoing in a row 6: 999 were playing over in Camden 7: Radical image change on Sunday morning - now all mods 8: They all retired after finally seeing '12XU' played live 9: Mass suicide after Wire sell out by playing Go Ahead 10: There were no punks - it was all a dream Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:51:56 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #169 i recall someone commenting that in wir graham became "effectively the frotman" , i wasn't sure i actually agreed with that entirely. but wasn't it strange how in the recent gigs they didn't do one single graham lead vocal track? you think they might have been tempted if only to give colin a rest. and "blessed state" was obviously up for inclusion after its appearance on "third day". p Howard, << I especially remember 'footsi footsi' - Graham singing into two different mikes for varied vocal effects. He was very much centrestage, the lead singer. >> Very much so. Another reason why I consider Wir as a very different band to Wire.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:57:07 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: anarcho hello 3:Their mums only let them get punked up once a week >>> that reminds me of the TVP's part-time punks. i used to love the way they put the ticket price up as time progressed , i saw them in about 85 by which time it cost £7.50 to see the clash. tonight. p (not enough hair for a decent mohican these days) ps bizarre dream last night just comes flooding back to me. i was watching the exploited play in the central reservation of a road. wattie looked about 70 , all fat with no hair and wearing a boiler suit. the police moved me on. and i never could stand the exploited in case you wondered. can someone analyse this for me pse , its worrying me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:32:34 +0100 From: "Uri Baran" Subject: Re: Re[2]: anarcho hello it's a wish fulfilment dream and your subconscious is telling you that in fact you do like the exploited even if your brain tells you otherwise. The fact that they're ancient relates to their slogan of 'punks not dead'. As you can see, my qualifications are Electronics ;-) >ps bizarre dream last night just comes flooding back to me. i was watching the exploited play in the central reservation of a road. wattie looked about 70 , all fat with no hair and wearing a boiler suit. the police moved me on. and i never could stand the exploited in case you wondered. can someone analyse this for me pse , its worrying me. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:23:21 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: anarcho hello could be worse , it could be a suppressed desire to actually be IN the exploited , now that would be a real worry. still , talking about wish fulfilment that big john almost got to be in nirvana i seem to recall. now that would have been , er , interesting.... p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: anarcho hello Author: MIME:uri.b@virgin.net at INTERNET Date: 06/06/2000 14:42 it's a wish fulfilment dream and your subconscious is telling you that in fact you do like the exploited even if your brain tells you otherwise. The fact that they're ancient relates to their slogan of 'punks not dead'. As you can see, my qualifications are Electronics ;-) >ps bizarre dream last night just comes flooding back to me. i was watching the exploited play in the central reservation of a road. wattie looked about 70 , all fat with no hair and wearing a boiler suit. the police moved me on. and i never could stand the exploited in case you wondered. can someone analyse this for me pse , its worrying me. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:08:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: anarcho hello Paul, << talking about wish fulfilment that big john almost got to be in nirvana i seem to recall. now that would have been , er , interesting.... >> He was in Nirvana and played live with them before they got Pat Smear. When I read that he joined I checked the date on the NME to make sure it wasn't April 1. Never saw the Exploited but I once met the bass player out of Discharge and had a swig from his plastic bottle of cider. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:33:04 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[6]: anarcho hello Paul, << talking about wish fulfilment that big john almost got to be in nirvana i seem to recall. now that would have been , er , interesting.... >> He was in Nirvana and played live with them before they got Pat Smear. When I read that he joined I checked the date on the NME to make sure it wasn't April 1. >>>>> i guess you can only say there must have been one hell of a different perception of the exploited in seattle to that in the uk. i thought he just jammed with them , i didn't think he was actually in the band. mind you , i suppose that's like certain acts who various us-based listers seem to remember as fairly credible "new wave" artists but were seen by a lot of uk observers (who i guess , like me , came from a punk standpoint) as sort of bland "new romantic pop". sorry again dan , but i have talked a lot of music with a lot of people and i struggle to think of anyone here who took AFOS seriously. but then i suppose 77-80 was a really great time for uk music whereas outside the big cities i guess in the us it was pretty dire. (not sure where ELO fit into this theory mind...) p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:26:21 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[6]: anarcho hello Paul, << i guess you can only say there must have been one hell of a different perception of the exploited in seattle to that in the uk. i thought he just jammed with them , i didn't think he was actually in the band.<< Well there were certainly PR pix with him and Kurt. Don't ofrget also that after teh Exploited he was in Goodbye Mr McKenzie with Shirley Manson...hence the Seattle link via Butch Vig. >> mind you , i suppose that's like certain acts who various us-based listers seem to remember as fairly credible "new wave" artists but were seen by a lot of uk observers (who i guess , like me , came from a punk standpoint) as sort of bland "new romantic pop". sorry again dan , but i have talked a lot of music with a lot of people and i struggle to think of anyone here who took AFOS seriously. but then i suppose 77-80 was a really great time for uk music whereas outside the big cities i guess in the us it was pretty dire. (not sure where ELO fit into this theory mind...) p >> Careful..... ;-) You're right though - back then America took to their heart a lot of bands that were thoroughly and immediately rejected by UK buyers - like The Fixx and Wang Chung... I guess it still happens - take Bush for example, who couldn't sell out a pub here while playing stadiums in the US. If anything the cultural taste gap is widening. Enormous US bands like Korn or Limp Biscuit mean very little here, while fewer UK bands seem to get anywhere in the US these days. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:58:16 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[6]: anarcho hello >mind you , i suppose that's like certain acts who various us-based listers seem to remember as fairly credible "new wave" artists but were seen by a lot of uk observers (who i guess , like me , came from a punk standpoint) as sort of bland "new romantic pop". sorry again dan , but i have talked a lot of music with a lot of people and i struggle to think of anyone here who took AFOS seriously.< I don't know that I "took AFOS seriously" per se, but that doesn't stop me from regarding them as purveyors of pretty decent '80s dance music. If I were to rid my record & CD collection of bands I don't take *seriously*, I'm not sure what I'd do with all the extra room. Come to that, should we really take *seriously* 4 guys from New York who made a point of dressing alike & pretending they were brothers with the surname of "Ramone"? Dan but then i suppose 77-80 was a really great time for uk music whereas outside the big cities i guess in the us it was pretty dire. (not sure where ELO fit into this theory mind...) p > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:05:09 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: anarcho hello >forgot to say before that the superstar turnout at the garage was a little poor , the only notable faces i saw were michael clark (sat and sun) and on sat there was the subhumans singer , still looking exactly the same as early 80's. i think it was him shouting for more "manscape" numbers but i could be mistaken here. Dick Lucas? My god, this weekend I was sitting here at my keyboard minding my own business when some teen-aged girl popped up on ICQ (which I almost couldn't remember how to operate ... haven't used it in well over a year) to ask if I had any idea of where to find pictures of the guy, as she found him "totally hot" & was attempting to paper her bedroom wall with "photos of dick." (I did *not* comment on that particular turn of phrase, mind you.) Kids these days ... I have a feeling she's sort of missing the point of anarchopunk. She mentioned picking up Rudimentary Peni's EPs CD a couple of weeks ago -- I pray to *god* she encounters no photos of Nick Blinko. Dan > >actually it was really funny how all the "punks not dead" types came on saturday not sunday ; i wonder why? wonder what these guys in well-worn stranglers/vibrators t-shirts made of that encore?p > >ps ; gang of 4 "shrinkwrapped" ; not bad at all ! pleasantly surprised i must say , its got some real attitude. given some of the crap andy gill has ended up working with that was a pretty impressive return to form. well worth my quid. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:55:10 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Exploded Forms Exploded Forms is out of print, but not impossible to find. Last time I looked, they still had it (and Colin's "It Seems" on vinyl) at AB-CD.com. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:19:27 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Canibalism..... What with all the recent talk of Krautrock, I would like to reccomend to the list the re-mix collection of choons by CAN. "Sacrilege". It is asolutley fantastic. The re-mix of " I want more" by Westbam is so friggin' good it makes you wanna pop! The Siam Cat... (Lets rave again...like we did last summer) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:35:55 -0500 From: "webmaster" Subject: RE: Krautrock Stephen is right on about the book. But take note - Cope is very very specific about what he approves - kinda like some on this list! Only the uber-hip get his blessing and he slags off most of the later work from everyone. If you'd like to expand your Krautrock horizons beyond Cope's chosen experimental few, also try out Kraan and Passport for fusion-rock, Nektar and Grobschnitt for prog-rock. Cluster, Michael Rother and Hans-Jochim Rodelius, and Peter Michael Hamel are ambient-rock pioneers. Also, I've been recently introduced to Harald Grosskopf - great elektronische musik! Check out the Brain and Sky labels. There's a great set of compilations - though of dubious origin - called Unknown Deutschland "Krautrock Archive". Total of 3 volumes on Virgin. (Some think it's all Cope, in the here and now). Also, Psychedelic Underground series is cheap, but more prog/metal orientated. So BE wary of most other German bands from the 70's like Jane, Birth Control, et all - they all have a _heavy_ dose of Deep Purple in them, which, like bad heavy metal, isn't a good thing! charles "studiert Deutsch" >Julian Cope's book "Krautrocksampler" is a great introduction to the field. >It's written from a fan's perspetictive so not totally unbiased, but his >enthusiasm for the subject is winning. Neu! are a must, others include >Cosmic Jokers, Guru Guru, Klaus Schultze and Tangerine Dream, Ash Ra, Amon >Duul 2, amongst others. A good source for this (and like minded >progressive/alternative/pysch stuff is Jade Hubertz. Email him at the cc >address. Stephen G. >>Can anyonwe recommend good krautrock bands which sound more like Faust/Can? >>giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:47:45 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Krautrock There's > a great set > of compilations - though of dubious origin - called Unknown Deutschland > "Krautrock Archive". Total of 3 volumes on Virgin. (Some think it's all > Cope, in the here and now). Yeah - I've got the first two compilations of the Krautrock Archives. If anyone has Archive Vol. 1, do you know where I can get other recordings by Temple? giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #173 *******************************