From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #169 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, June 3 2000 Volume 03 : Number 169 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s ["lucifersam" ] Re: Garage (Saturday) [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] re: the garage (sun) [Alistair Tear ] re: the garage (sun) ["stephen graziano" ] Re: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) ["lucifersam" ] Re: Syds Floyd.................. ["lucifersam" ] In Defense of Syd...Grrrrrrr ["lucifersam" ] The Offer ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] RE: The Offer ["Ciscon, Ray" ] re: Re: The Offer [Jack Steinmann ] Re: 12DrillU ["sean bowen" ] Pink Floyd ["sean bowen" ] Re: Re[2]: Garage (Saturday) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Syds Floyd.................. [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: In Defense of Syd...Grrrrrrr [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: The Offer [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: In Defense of Syd...Grrrrrrr ["lucifersam" ] re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s [Jorge Punaro ] Re: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s ["tube disaster" ] Re: Garage (Saturday) ["ian barrett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:09:54 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s Trust me Dan, You DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, want to know anything about Modern Romance. They were the biggest pile of shite known to man, bandwagon jumping, Blue Rondo a la Turk copying twats to visit planet earth. Nice blokes though. Le Cat Siamese... > I know Modern Romance by name only ... if I've ever heard a single song of > theirs (including Moosey, which I've heard certain New Wave aficionados > invoke with something approaching reverence), I'm not aware of it. Just out > of curiosity, a few weeks ago I went looking through the local used racks, > but the only Modern Romance that showed up was recorded after one of the 2 > Leyton Buzzards mainstays had left the band. > > Dan > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:48:48 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: Garage (Saturday) >>Perhaps I should give Pink Flag another chance. It's had a fair crack of >>the whip, but mainly on the strength of my love of much of their subsequent >>work. I have to say, though, that if this had been my first Wire related >>purchase it would have seriously hampered my desire to investigate further. >>Ian Pink Flag was the last Wire albums I purchased and I too had a problem getting into it. It's very hard to feel the emotion of a "punk" recording when sitting with your cup of tea, listening to your Teac CD player. ;) The most obvious setting is a live gig where, especially the 2 minute songs can really smack you in the face. I think a lot of the original energy and vitality is lost on the CD. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:49:03 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: re: the garage (sun) paul rabjohn@ssab.com wrote >no encore was a shame Hi, I've been lurking for awhile and I think I disagree. The 10 min. (?) version of pink flag which closed the sunday gig built into an awesome wall of sound which seemed to me put not only the tin lid, but the whole f*ckin' canteen on it. Alistair ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:35:30 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: re: the garage (sun) > >The 10 min. (?) version of pink flag which closed the sunday >gig built into an awesome wall of sound which seemed to me put >not only the tin lid, but the whole f*ckin' canteen on it. >Alistair This reminds me of a thought I had when I was watching Wire in DC. Do you suppose that it's possible that the "famous" My Bloody Valentine "You Made Me Realise" onechord freakout that closed the show on there last tour was inspired by Drill?. Oh and by the way, when I suggested that 12XU was a precursor to Drill, that was based on how Wire were playing 12XU today - with a definate dugga feel - as if to show that the seed of Drill was there from their earliest days. - Steve G. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:56:18 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) > Early PF are a double-edged sword - killer psych-pop like Arnold Layne or See > Emily Play on one hand (to which the Wire of Outdoor Miner owes no small > debt) but irritating English whimsy on the other (mice called Gerald etc). > Plus a bit of genuine wig-out madness - like Interstellar Overdrive. I like > the first two albums, but after that it does get turgid. << Subject: Piper' thoughts....... > Quick miss moneyPenny....I need to lay down.....Jeeze..... The Madcap Laughed........ > That's funny I had the exact same impression. For some reason > I kept thinking of it as Bowie's Laughing Gnome taken seriously. I > can't bring myself to listen to it a second time. > > Jon > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > http://incomplete.net > If it's not here, it's incomplete! > jland@incomplete.net > > Guinea Pig cam available (sometimes) at > http://incomplete.net/espicam.html > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:01:45 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Syds Floyd.................. I think the big difference is George, that stereo at that time was considered to be a bit of a gimmick. It was new and most people didn't have stereo record players, hence no one really took it seriously. That stereo mix would have been done by one of the EMI boffins in white coats, who had no feel for the music, or any idea of what Syd was trying to portray in his art. The mono version on the other hand, would have seen Syd behind the mixing desk. The mono version is they version Syd wanted, he decided that was how Pink Floyd should sound. Listen to the guitar madness in the middle of "Interstellar Overdrive"....it aint that mad on the stereo mix! Peace and Love...Ernold Sane.......... - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: lucifersam Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 1:32 AM Subject: Re: Syds Floyd.................. > > I was surprised when I heard the mono version. Boy, that bass response ... > interstellar overdrive, indeed. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:53:29 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: In Defense of Syd...Grrrrrrr The Siam Cat returns! > After years -- decades, really -- of hearing about how Pink Floyd were > actually a great, fractured pop band, rather than soulless purveyors of > navel-gazing dreck, before Syd Barrett's departure, a couple of months ago I > found a couple of inexpensive cassettes of Piper at the Gates of Dawn & some > singles comp at the store near my house & thought I'd give them a try. < > Result: Nothing. For all the impression the songs made on me, the tapes > might as well have been blank. Maybe someday this'll grow on me, but in the > meantime, << hooks*), thank you very much. > < Dan, who strongly suspects that there's a reason why virtually every vacuous > burnout on the planet seems to own & revere a copy of that (post-Barrett, of > course) monument to elevator music, Dark Side of the Moon > > > >Led Zep: not really<< >Pink Floyd: absolutely Fab' untill Syd went loopy. > >Yes: absolutely fucking awful.....the pits...If there was only one reason why the Sex Pistols were needed, they were it! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:30:04 EDT From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: The Offer I just bought Eardrum Buzz 3" on eBay (what a beautiful design... so easy to lose it). The guitar in "The Offer" sounds so Robert Smith-ish or is it just my ears? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://belmusic.hypermart.net ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:32:41 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: The Offer Syarzhuk wrote: I just bought Eardrum Buzz 3" on eBay (what a beautiful design... so easy to lose it). The guitar in "The Offer" sounds so Robert Smith-ish or is it just my ears? I don't know about the Robert Smith-ish sound, but 'The Offer' is one of my favorite Wire tunes, and definitely one of their most underrated songs. Only 'Madman's Honey', 'Kidney Bingos', and 'Outdoor Miner' can be considered as, or more 'sweet' a pop song than 'The Offer'. Another example of what I call a, "if the people in this country had any musical taste, this would've been number one with a bullet" type song. Anyone have any comments on what the lyrics are about? Is it an actual 'love' song. From Wire? Cheers, Ray Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: 02 Jun 2000 14:42:39 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Re: The Offer What about Blessed State? Ciscon, Ray wrote: >Only 'Madman's Honey', 'Kidney Bingos', and 'Outdoor Miner' can be >considered as, or more 'sweet' a pop song than 'The Offer'. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 22:18:34 +0100 From: "sean bowen" Subject: Re: 12DrillU Paul, Do you reckon the Bristol '12DrillU' is the one on the CD accompanying the 'Exploded Views' book ? If so, then I agree, it's really good. But even better, in my opinion, is the 1990 update of 'Underwater Experiences' on the same disc. Totally manic. Fascinating evolution from the original demo on 'Behind the Curtain', through the live '79 versions on D&E. Each so different, and each so brilliant. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 9:58 AM Subject: Re[2]: Garage (Saturday) > > When they played live as Wir (but billed as Wire...) in 1990 they performed a piece called 12DrillU, which was a bastard offspring off the two. Amusing, but throwaway. > > Mark > >>>>> i really liked that. it was a mixture of the two plus tecnotronic's "this beat is technotronic" , so you got "this beat is , this beat is , this beat is 12drillu". i thought that was pretty inspired. certainly got the crowd going at the gig i was at (bristol). p > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 22:28:28 +0100 From: "sean bowen" Subject: Pink Floyd When I was into PF, I used to like mid-phase stuff like 'Atom Heart Mother' and 'Meddle' better than either the '60s Barrett phase or the later 'Dark Side'-'Wall' phase. - ----- Original Message ----- From: lucifersam To: tube disaster Cc: IdealCopy Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 5:53 PM Subject: In Defense of Syd...Grrrrrrr > << best > LP of the sixties. > > < assistance!!!!!!!!!! > > > Dan, who strongly suspects that there's a reason why virtually every > vacuous > > burnout on the planet seems to own & revere a copy of that (post-Barrett, > of > > course) monument to elevator music, Dark Side of the Moon > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:49:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Garage (Saturday) Paul, << i really liked that. it was a mixture of the two plus tecnotronic's "this beat is technotronic" , so you got "this beat is , this beat is , this beat is 12drillu". i thought that was pretty inspired. certainly got the crowd going at the gig i was at (bristol). p >> I thought those gigs were hilarious - I saw the Mean Fiddler gig (indeed, last time I saw Wire until the RFH...) I liked the idiot dancing during 'Naked whooping and such like' and also enjoyed seeing Bruce do a live vocal. He sat down and put on his glasses to sing. Inspired. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:53:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s Dan, << I know Modern Romance by name only ... if I've ever heard a single song of theirs (including Moosey, which I've heard certain New Wave aficionados invoke with something approaching reverence), I'm not aware of it. Just out of curiosity, a few weeks ago I went looking through the local used racks, but the only Modern Romance that showed up was recorded after one of the 2 Leyton Buzzards mainstays had left the band. >> Not sure about 'reverence' - it was a hideous party record which ranks alongside Black Lace's Agadoo and the Birdie Song. Ideal for doing the Conga. Not sure but I think only one Buzzard was in em - Geoiff Deane? Downes? Or is that the other Buggles bloke? The one that isn't the other Buggles bloke... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:55:31 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s Siam, << Trust me Dan, You DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, want to know anything about Modern Romance. They were the biggest pile of shite known to man, bandwagon jumping, Blue Rondo a la Turk copying twats to visit planet earth. Nice blokes though. >> Blue Rondo were earnest young men in zoot suits from what I remember. 'Klacto Vee Sedstein' was their shite non-hit. It was graffitied all over London in about 1983. Living death. My god, the list is ploughing new depths... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:01:31 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Syds Floyd.................. Siam, << That stereo mix would have been done by one of the EMI boffins in white coats, who had no feel for the music, or any idea of what Syd was trying to portray in his art. >> Wasn't it done by Norman 'Hurricane' Smith? Oh babe, what would you say, Don't let it die etc. Also engineered Sgt Pepper and played the trumpet on Teardrop Explodes' Reward. Quite a character. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:06:56 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: In Defense of Syd...Grrrrrrr Cat, << The only 2 groups mixing Pop music with the avant garde at that time were Pink Floyd and the Velvets. >> Bit extreme... how about The Byrds (Eight Miles High, Lady Friend etc), The Beatles (Revolver), The 13th Floor Elevators... >>I suggest that everybody try to seek out 2 tracks that were never released after Syd got the boot. "Vegetableman" and "Scream Thy Last Scream". << Veg man was the B-side of the 1st Jesus & Mary Chain single... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:17:53 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: The Offer Syarzhuk, << The guitar in "The Offer" sounds so Robert Smith-ish or is it just my ears? >> It's played through a flanger, Fat Bob's fave effect pedal. Hence the similarity. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 01:11:11 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: In Defense of Syd...Grrrrrrr > Cat, > > << The only 2 groups > mixing > Pop music with the avant garde at that time were Pink Floyd and the > Velvets. >> > > Bit extreme... > > how about The Byrds (Eight Miles High, Lady Friend etc), The Beatles > (Revolver), The 13th Floor Elevators... > < >>I suggest that everybody try to seek out 2 tracks that were never > released > after Syd got the boot. "Vegetableman" and "Scream Thy Last > Scream". << > > Veg man was the B-side of the 1st Jesus & Mary Chain single... > < Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 21:52:46 -0600 From: Jorge Punaro Subject: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s >Is the Modern Romance first album "Adventures in Clubland" released on cd? > >On it was a song called "Bring it to the Funketters" (or something like >that) that was cool. > >The rest of the album, and specially their next records were terrible. > >Jorge > >-----Mensaje original----- >De: MarkBursa@aol.com >Para: dpbailey@worldnet.att.net ; >idealcopy@smoe.org >Fecha: Viernes, 02 de Junio de 2000 05:00 p.m. >Asunto: Re: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s > > >>Dan, >> >><< I know Modern Romance by name only ... if I've ever heard a single song >of >> theirs (including Moosey, which I've heard certain New Wave aficionados >> invoke with something approaching reverence), I'm not aware of it. Just >out >> of curiosity, a few weeks ago I went looking through the local used racks, >> but the only Modern Romance that showed up was recorded after one of the 2 >> Leyton Buzzards mainstays had left the band. >> >> >> >>Not sure about 'reverence' - it was a hideous party record which ranks >>alongside Black Lace's Agadoo and the Birdie Song. Ideal for doing the >Conga. >>Not sure but I think only one Buzzard was in em - Geoiff Deane? Downes? Or >>is that the other Buggles bloke? The one that isn't the other Buggles >bloke... >> >>Mark > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:45:30 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: re cv/omd + buzzards+s.f.s >Dan, > ><< I know Modern Romance by name only ... if I've ever heard a single song of > theirs (including Moosey, which I've heard certain New Wave aficionados > invoke with something approaching reverence), I'm not aware of it. Just out > of curiosity, a few weeks ago I went looking through the local used racks, > but the only Modern Romance that showed up was recorded after one of the 2 > Leyton Buzzards mainstays had left the band. > >> > >Not sure about 'reverence' - it was a hideous party record which ranks >alongside Black Lace's Agadoo and the Birdie Song. Ideal for doing the Conga. >Not sure but I think only one Buzzard was in em - Geoiff Deane? Downes? Or >is that the other Buggles bloke? The one that isn't the other Buggles bloke... > >Mark Two Buzzards wound up in the band -- Geoffrey Deane & David Jaymes. Deane was gone by the 2nd LP. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 08:35:46 +0100 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: Garage (Saturday) Actually the first two tracks you mention are two of those that I rate - I thought Lowdown came across really well at RFH. And I have to say I quite like Elastica's nabbing of TGR (although I don't recall hearing anything else by them that appealed) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Steinmann To: ian barrett Cc: wire mailing list Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 10:57 PM Subject: Re: Garage (Saturday) You should give Pink Flag another chance. Maybe not for 12XU, but certainly for Lowdown, Strange, Three Girl Rhumba... Hey, Elastica did! Jack ian barrett wrote: I shudder at the prospect of a 20 minute version of >12XU. Perhaps I should give Pink Flag another chance. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 08:42:50 +0100 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: Garage (Saturday) I caught that in Manchester 1990. I went with a group of friends with whom I had also seen them in 1987. Opinion was wildly divided on the two shows. One friend railed against what he saw as the bands apparent distaste (and on Lewis's part contempt) for the audience (Ahead, he felt, was performed as a 'wind-up'; Goodbye Ploy was 'misanthropic'). This was not my own reading of proceedings. Another friend thought that it was far better, far more interesting than '87. Did they also do some kind of hybrid of I Am The Fly /Small Black Reptile? - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Garage (Saturday) > Ian, > > << I think someone in the band has kind of acknowledged a link. >> > > When they played live as Wir (but billed as Wire...) in 1990 they performed a > piece called 12DrillU, which was a bastard offspring off the two. Amusing, > but throwaway. > > Mark > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #169 *******************************