From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #165 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, May 31 2000 Volume 03 : Number 165 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Highbury and The Cabs/international language ["tube disaster" ] Re: Garage,etc ["ian barrett" ] Re: Blurt & Low Fi [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Highbury and The Cabs [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: Cabaret Voltaire was: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: Cabaret Voltaire was: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) ["tube disaster" ] Tim Westwood..an appeal for spare Wire CDs [timrobinson@cwcom.net] Highbury & Les Garcons De La Plage [timrobinson@cwcom.net] Re: Cabaret Voltaire was: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) [MarkBursa@a] Re: Londons Burning! [MarkBursa@aol.com] Styx ...Old Bloke.....Bittersweet 70-ies ["Mats Hammerman" ] Re: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) [Carl Archer ] Brits Love Britney [george.m.hook@ac.com] Brits Love Britney II [george.m.hook@ac.com] Re: Teevee Stax [VoxxJaguar@aol.com] Re: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) ["lucifersam" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:14:43 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Highbury and The Cabs/international language I have almost everything recorded by OMD, >for goodness sake. We all have our soft underbellies. Which probably means you have some B-sides I don't have. Bastard. (Come to think of it, Enola Gay is the 4th song on the aforementioned mix tape, between Last Night a DJ & Prince's Let's Pretend We're Married.) > >Did the Cabs make any impression on America at all? Much of their >sample-heavy material was Americana - preachers, politicians, militia >loons giving instructions on how to load guns - that sort of malarkey. >Would go down like a bucket of cold sick in some quarters, I imagine, >but perhaps not in others. Only on certain bands that no one paid any attention to, like beloved (by me) early '80s Phoenix local band International Language, who actually probably owed more to Pere Ubu & the Birthday Party as they did the Cabs. (Did I see "International Language" mentioned in another post as a circa-'90 Cabs song or album, BTW? I seem to recall that Richard Strange had an album out about 20 years ago with a title along the lines of The Rise & Fall of Richard Strange & International Language, & these days I think there's a hardcore punk band calling itself IL ... heresy!) Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:24:46 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: BAD is not too bad - WAS-RE: Londons Burning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dan/Tubedisaster wrote: > Of the 4 lists I contribute fairly heavily to, I guess this is the only one > where I haven't talked about my love/hate relationship with the Clash ... > The short version -- I've never seen a band fall so far, so hard & so > (making up a word here, probably) *linearly*, quite possibly for some of the > reasons Steve enumerates below. Great first album (all I'm familiar with is > the adulterated US version, though I suppose someday I could go the the > bother of redubbing the original track listing) ... OK second album with > about 1 side of filler, though the high points (Safe European Home, mainly) > are indeed very high ... OK third album, with about *2* sides of filler > (roughly equivalent to the second disc, which I guess I haven't bothered > playing in nearly 2 decades, having rescued I'm Not Down & Train in Vain > onto cassette back in the mid-'80s) ... > > Well, midway through London Calling they completely lost me. Indeed, in > retrospect that album was the first release in my young life that I found a > truly crushing, personal disappointment, so much so that I couldn't be > bothered to pick up anything new (as opposed to the Black Market Clash 10") > of theirs for another decade, by which time of course it wasn't new at all. > And even then, the only reason I own Combat Rock (about 1 1/2 sides of > filler) & Cut the Crap (one good song, This is England, & the rest filler) > is that a friend of mine was culling her collection & mailed them to me for > the (diffident) asking. Sandinista I picked up used around '93 ... haven't > ever managed to listen to it all the way through, but I'd say that the > ever-increasing keeper-to-filler ratio appears to have stayed on pace with > this piece of self-indulgence, beside which A New World Record probably (all > I've got is a greatest hits) sounds like Pink Flag in comparison. > > I realized last year, with the release of a new one by Strummer, that I'd go > see him only if he were playing in town for $8, tops. That's pretty > pathetic. Same would've been true of BAD or BAD II or whatever the hell they > wound up being called. Dan, I agree with just about everything you've said about The Clash, but I do have to part ways with you on the various incarnations of Big Audio Dynamite. I think that The Clash collapsed under the weight of it's political and artistic pretensions. Big Audio Dynamite, while including various political messages, did not make it the centerpiece of their artistic existence. Pop, hip-hop, and sampling was the centerpiece. Take what you will from the various releases, but B.A.D.'s first album and 'Megatop Phoenix' have an almost permanent spot in my 100-CD player. I don't think I've ever had a Clash album there ... Cheers, Ray (who now suddenly wants to hear 'Radio Clash' on pirate satellite) Ciscon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:59:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Highbury and The Cabs/international language Dan, OMD's Peel sessions have just been released on CD here in the UK. Possibly the only essential OMD record. I once flew from Manchester to London on a BA shuttle containing both Andy McCluskey and Mark E Smith. MES was going to Rome. I followed him to the check-oiut to see where he was going. He seemed to be travelling with his mum and a younger girl (sister?). He was pushing the luggage trolley and kept jumping on the back like a big kid. Very surreal. This was in 1991. Mark << I have almost everything recorded by OMD, >for goodness sake. We all have our soft underbellies. Which probably means you have some B-sides I don't have. Bastard. (Come to think of it, Enola Gay is the 4th song on the aforementioned mix tape, between Last Night a DJ & Prince's Let's Pretend We're Married.) >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:03:53 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Londons Burning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dan, << Great first album (all I'm familiar with is the adulterated US version, though I suppose someday I could go the the bother of redubbing the original track listing) ... >> If you think the US version is great you really should hear the proper version, with all the tracks, in the right order. The US version is unlistenable to me. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:33:54 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Londons Burning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The US version is unlistenable to me. > > Mark Steady Boy....you dont wanna start an International incident! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:32:03 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Highbury and The Cabs/international language I seem to recall that Richard Strange had an album > out about 20 years ago with a title along the lines of The Rise & Fall of > Richard Strange & International Language, & these days I think there's a > hardcore punk band calling itself IL ... heresy!) > Was this not the former Kid Strange and the Doctors of Madness???????/ Le Cat Siamese..... > Dan > > > ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2000 16:59:18 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Re: Londons Burning! Does the U.S. version have the B-side "1977"? I always thought "1977" was the best song of the lot, minimal in a "Lowdown" sort of way... Jack lucifersam@supanet.com wrote: >The US version is unlistenable to me. >> >> Mark > >Steady Boy....you dont wanna start an International incident! > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:11:15 +0100 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: Garage,etc Well, apart from MarkBursa.'s lines (thanks Mark) I have to say that reportage/opinions/reviews on/of the weekend's shows have been somewhat skimpy. Surprising, that on a Wire list, a couple of days after the final show of three, the main discussion centres around the merits or otherwise of ELO and The Clash. Fair play and all that - I always find the list entertaining even when wildly 'off topic' - but although I'm no Wire obsessive, I was gutted not to be able to make any of the Garage shows, and expected a satisfying flood of information a la post RFH (which I saw for myself) and post US shows. Perhaps you're all just searching for les mots juste??? Cheers Ian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:18:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Blurt & Low Fi Rick, << Well between the Lo-Fi comment in the previous post and mentioning Ted Milton in this post. I have a Live tape of Blurt and you can listen to conversion at the bar. I swear Ted can hear these girls too,since he atarts talking to them in between songs. It didnt sound like there were to many people there. 1981 Boston(I think the Underground) Are Blurt still together. >> No idea....probably. Certainly not the classic line-up of Ted on sax/vox, his brother Jake on drums and Peter Creese ("the human loop") on endlessly repeated guitar riff. No bass. If you don't have it, seek out the first Blurt single "Mother was a friend of an enemy of the people". It's all you need to know. Awesome. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:26:33 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: Highbury and The Cabs >Did the Cabs make any impression on America at all? Much of their >sample-heavy material was Americana - preachers, politicians, militia >loons giving instructions on how to load guns - that sort of malarkey. >Would go down like a bucket of cold sick in some quarters, I imagine, >but perhaps not in others. Well, I can't speak for most of America, but up here in Seattle, the new wave radio stations that I listened to around ...er...1983 or so...would play "I Want You" from the Covenant, The Sword and the Arm of the Lord album. Big dance hit in the clubs, etc. I think the follow-up album may have been pushed here as well, but it didn't do very well. Then the "Baby Wave" Seattle scene folded, the new wave stations went off the air, and all the musicians disappeared into their garages to drink Rainier beer, grow out their hair, listen to KISS, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin and Sex Pistols albums, and prepare to unleash upon the world... grunge! (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:35:07 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: Cabaret Voltaire was: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) >> Um....excuse me.....are you implying that there is something wrong >> with The Monkees!!!!!!!!!?????????????????? > >Well, you *know*, they didn't write any of their own music. Not true - Michael Nesmith wrote and even played (!) on his own songs. (^_^) Cheers, - -Paul ...wondering why I know this stuff... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:31:55 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re: Londons Burning! Yep, good song. Nope, it's not on the US version ... After some 12 years of wanting to, I wasn't able to actually hear it till Epic or somebody came out with an odds-&-sods collection in '90 called something like 1977 Revisited, which included not only that song but also the 4 songs omitted from the US release (Cheat, Deny, Protex Blue & 48 Hours) & some B-sides, like Crush On You. Nice little compendium for those of us with those particular holes in our collection. Anyway, instead of those 4 songs we got Clash City Rockers, Jail Guitar Doors, I Fought the Law, White Man in Hammersmith Palais & Complete Control -- all quite brilliant, of course, except for the thoroughly unncecessary Bobby Fuller cover (we got a bonus 7" of Gates of the West & Groovy Times, too). Not sure why replacing 4 completely unexceptional (though certainly serviceable) songs with great singles sides would render the US version "unlistenable" ("inauthentic" I could see ...), but then if I'd grown up on the UK version I'd probably feel differently. Regardless, of course, CBS should've had the brains to release the album in the US as intended ... just as other US labels should have done with the Cure's 3 Imaginary Boys & any number of other debuts (like the Beatles', if memory serves) from UK bands over the years. Of course, CDs & bonus tracks & such are making such distinctions less & less meaningful as time goes by, I suspect. I've got only my 22-year-old vinyl copy of Pink Flag, but I suppose Options R is as much a part of that album to a latecomer as White Man in Hammersmith Palais is to The Clash for me. Dan >>Does the U.S. version have the B-side "1977"? I always thought "1977" was the best song of the lot, minimal in a "Lowdown" sort of way... Jack lucifersam@supanet.com wrote: >The US version is unlistenable to me. >> >> Mark > >Steady Boy....you dont wanna start an International incident! > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:35:08 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Cabaret Voltaire was: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) >>> Um....excuse me.....are you implying that there is something >wrong >>> with The Monkees!!!!!!!!!?????????????????? >> >>Well, you *know*, they didn't write any of their own music. > >Not true - Michael Nesmith wrote and even played (!) on his own songs. > >(^_^) > >Cheers, >-Paul Did he write Different Drum *after* his Monkees tenure? That song's quite a rarity -- a Linda Ronstadt-sung number that I'm fond of (nice versions by the Pastels & the Lemonheads, too). Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:59:28 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: Cabaret Voltaire was: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) >Did he write Different Drum *after* his Monkees tenure? That song's quite a >rarity -- a Linda Ronstadt-sung number that I'm fond of (nice versions by >the Pastels & the Lemonheads, too). Once again - showing off my encylopedic Monkees knowledge...(^_^) He wrote Different Drum *before* the Monkees. Back when Linda was still in the Stone Poneys, if memory serves. In fact, there's a very funny Monkees episode where they're doing some talent show, and Mike gets up and does a destructo version of that song - about twice as fast as normal. Cheers, Paul ...did you know that Mike's Mom invented Liquid Paper? Or that Mike once turned over a general's aircraft when he was in the Air Force? ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2000 19:02:08 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Re: Londons Burning! The U.S. "Revolver" lost three songs to the U.S.-only "Yesterday... and Today," which actually previewed unmixed (differently-mixed?) versions of, among others, "I'm Only Sleeping." Capitol, it seems, could do whatever it wanted to do in the interest of cobbling together more 'product.' Then there's Elvis Costello's 2nd LP "This Year's Model," which lost "I Don't Want to Go to Chelsea" and the amazing "Night Rally" in the U.S., replaced only by the infamous "Radio Radio." (I think there even was a Swedish edition, with further track tinkering.) And, of course, the cover art variations were masterful. The most overt example is Nick Lowe's "Jesus of Cool," a.k.a. "Pure Pop For Now People," which had at least three different versions (tracks and art) between Britain and the U.S. and Europe. All these variations were created for the sole purpose of extracting money from my wallet... Jack tube disaster wrote: >CBS should've had the brains to release the album in the US as >intended ... just as other US labels should have done with the Cure's 3 >Imaginary Boys & any number of other debuts (like the Beatles', if memory >serves) from UK bands over the years. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 01:27:59 +0100 From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: Tim Westwood..an appeal for spare Wire CDs - -------------End of Wire Content------------------------ Right someone mentioned him a couple of days ago....Tim Westwood....I can't believe what a fake that guy is....if our US readers ever get chance to see or hear him on TV or Radio..do. Ali-G has got him down to a tee! I can't believe he has such a problem with his upbringing as well! I come from a very similar background to Westwood (White, soft as s**t, Middle Class, Clergyman father) but I don't feel the need to walk round Moss Side pretending to be Dr Dre to make up for it...I'd get a kicking if I did and rightly so. Mind you I'm one of those techno 'traitors' he hates so much. Basically if you think some of our fellow listees have narrow music tastes (pale, serious looking early 80s guitar bands) then check out Westwood...a dour, miserable, humourless trainspotter who insists on speaking in a ridiculously fake Patois...and if it ain't 'Hot' and Hip Hop he aint listening. He basically dismissed genuinely underground, innovative, Multi-cultural British music like Drum and Bass and Speed Garage as being made by ex-Hip Hop 'traitors'...the small minded prat. ..And Tim, if a clueless toff like Nick Rhodes from Duran Duran can show you up on a chat show...you may as well hang up your headphones and leave us all alone, Apparently, he like still has the bullet holes in his Jeep, man!. Get down to Kwik Fit Tim and fill em in...there is nothing glamourous about getting shot. Some poor lad lost his leg in that one I hear, but Tim used it to boost his 'Hip Hop Cred' with is equally fake (white/middle class/posh school) fans, no end. Give this poor deluded tosser an education Send your spare Wire CDs to: Tim Westwood c/o Radio 1, London W1 4DJ England But don't tell him I told you too in case he sends his big mates round to beat me up. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 01:27:59 +0100 From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: Highbury & Les Garcons De La Plage Very weird but very enjoyable Wire show on Sunday at the Garage. They opened with a horn driven freakout. They were using a sequenced backing track which Mr Gotobed obviously couldn't hear because he was quite out of synch with it....I did wonder whether we were going to get document & eyewitness part II for a moment. They seemed to be playing the same set as the recent tour, but backwards! Quite different to All Tommorows Parties which was very tight, Wire played a more relaxed set....Heartbeat and He Knows were pretty soft and relaxed. They got loud and ferocious for Mercy etc. and an awesome Pink Flag. Shame about the lack of encore... One dickhead nearlly ruined it by throwing an empty pot at Colin...who responded with a swift finger and a big "f**k off!". (at least Colin didn't throw a tantrum and storm off stage like that softy Bobbie Gillespie from Primal Scream did in the same circumstances at Leeds....but thats another story) Apparently that said same person tried to get backstage....not suprisingly he failed.....unlike myself and my colleague (the Icelandic delegation) who kind of fell backstage by accident! This was completely unintentional....I was following some people from Dublin XFM and seconds later I was in a dressing room the size of small telephone kiosk trying very hard to have a sensible conversation with Colin and Graham despite being somewhat under the influence. Jolly nice they were too.... Graham especially is a phenomenal guy...he filled the room with his booming Graham-ness...very friendly..and he introduced himself to us and not the other way round...a true gent! I reckon it would bug them if everything they said to fans ended up as unofficial interviews...(and I can't remember precisely what was said!) but suffice to say that no one was going to let slip any future plans..but I got hints that that was not the last we'll see of them. Our Icelandic cultural attache has officially invited them to Rekjavik and they seemed to like the idea...especially Graham so watch out Iceland! - -------End of Wire Content------------------- And finally...if anyone is still listening....speaking of music tastes..granted ELO are a bit ropey but...could I ask listees if its OK to like the Beach Boys....not the flaky blokes in Hawain shirts that masquerade as them today (and spend their days comically taking out lawsuits against each other), but the strangely sinister bunch that made Pet Sounds & various other narcotically influenced pop items in the nineteen hundred and sixties? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:47:46 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Cabaret Voltaire was: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) Dan, << Did he write Different Drum *after* his Monkees tenure? That song's quite a rarity -- a Linda Ronstadt-sung number that I'm fond of (nice versions by the Pastels & the Lemonheads, too). >> Yep, he had quite a solo career in the '70s, mainly in a country-rock style. OK stuff actually... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:46:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Londons Burning! Dan, << Not sure why replacing 4 completely unexceptional (though certainly serviceable) songs with great singles sides would render the US version "unlistenable" ("inauthentic" I could see ...), but then if I'd grown up on the UK version I'd probably feel differently. >> Correct. To me it sounds so wrong. Those singles are superb, but don't belong there.... It's like Marquee Moon on CD, where the title track was left to run and finish (with a nasty drum roll), instead of fading away after Tom Verlaine starts singing the first lines of the song (giving the impression the band is going to play the whole thing again ad infinitum...) Verlaine himself did this!!!!! I cannot listen to the CD of that album, (an all-time fave of mine) and had to go and buy a new vinyl copy instead. Rule 1 - never shine daylight on magic.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:48:27 PDT From: "Mats Hammerman" Subject: Styx ...Old Bloke.....Bittersweet 70-ies >Styx - saw Styx in a high school gymnasium before they were "big guys" -> >the question I have is how do you feel about them now? I reserve judgement >pending your answer :-) Laurel *still debating Foghat hehe Well it took some time to dug out some Styxalbums from the vinylvault but heres your reply. - I dont feel a thing. I have have listened to two albums now while cleaning up my apartment and the strange thing is that I hardly recall the songs a all. Boring. Meaningless records. I almost felt like I have been cheated. I should have bought the Bay City Rollers instead... I also listened to an old Deep Purple album the other day and it had survive the ageing. It was marvelous. But Styx... My god... It could not find my Foghat record but it probably even worse. When it comes to old 70-ies band playing in nearby pubs - I have experinence of the opposite. The Sweet played my hometown in the north of Sweden during mid 80-ies while another The Sweet was touring Australia at the same time. > But the only concert I saw was Ultravox - but in those days it was >something extraordinary. <first LP was so deranged. A bit of Bowie, a bit of Roxy and a lot of >energy."I want to be a Machine" is insane. I loved "Young Savage" too. It was the John Foxx Line up. And that was energy. Young Savage - Yes! "I can feel the fear in the western world" at a volume and at an energy that totally killed any interest for guitarsolos longer that 20 secords. All the best Mats (Still the only Swede on the list?) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:49:34 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Londons Burning! Jack, Not to mention the Stones' or the Who's 60s catalogue.... Mark << CBS should've had the brains to release the album in the US as >intended ... just as other US labels should have done with the Cure's 3 >Imaginary Boys & any number of other debuts (like the Beatles', if memory >serves) from UK bands over the years. >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:58:09 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Highbury & Les Garcons De La Plage Tim, << Apparently that said same person tried to get backstage....not suprisingly he failed..... >> Oh, he looked a dangerous nutter. Off his face. Barged past me and stood almost in front of me, then started punching himself on the chin. >>And finally...if anyone is still listening....speaking of music tastes..granted ELO are a bit ropey but...<< Nice understatement.... >>could I ask listees if its OK to like the Beach Boys....not the flaky blokes in Hawain shirts that masquerade as them today (and spend their days comically taking out lawsuits against each other),<< Those that are left. Actually saw the flaky hawaiian shirt brigade once - worth it for the songs Carl Wilson sang....a great pop voice, and now sadly departed.... >> but the strangely sinister bunch that made Pet Sounds & various other narcotically influenced pop items in the nineteen hundred and sixties? << Absolutely. And the odd stuff they made in the '70s is about to come out on CD at last. Surf's Up is three-quaters great andI have a soft spot for Holland too.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:11:33 -0600 From: Jorge Punaro Subject: RE: Re[2]: The Garage? >>susan stenger of the band of susans/big bottom/gilbertposstenger fame.but >who was the guy who joined in on lowdown on sunday? p > >Steve Wright is Wire's soundman. He was also in a band in the 80's called >the "Mute Drivers" who released a fantastic single called "Boom town" The Mute Drivers also plays on the B-Side of A.C. Marias "One of Our Girls..." single, the track is an incredible cover of Lou Reed "Vicious". Saludos Jorge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:00:04 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) Led Zep: not really Pink Floyd: absolutely Yes: absolutely Heck I was even a big ZZ Top fan until a friend of mine in 6th grade started wearing a Dead Kennedy's 'Kill The Poor' pin. Everything changed after that. - -Carl > From: "tube disaster" > Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:59:20 -0700 > To: "wire mailing list" > Subject: Re: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) > > > >> I like everything the Cars put out until Heartbeat City. "Cruiser", "Shoo >> Be Doo", and "Double Life" particularly. I can't say the same about ELO, >> although I do like a few of their songs. >> >> Honestly I don't know why people on a WIRE list are so close-minded about >> other music. It's a silly paradox. If you don't have anything informative >> or something nice to say, don't say it. > > Just childhood prejudices coming to the fore, I'd say. From glancing at > other posts, I gather that certain people here listened to the likes of Led > Zep & Pink Floyd & Yes as kids ... insert those bands' names for ELO & Cars > in some of these little diatribes, & I'd probably strain my neck nodding in > agreement. > > Dan > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:50:21 -0700 From: "marlon" Subject: Re: Highbury & Les Garcons De La Plage > Absolutely. And the odd stuff they made in the '70s is about to come out on > CD at last. Surf's Up is three-quaters great andI have a soft spot for > Holland too.... > > Mark Surfs Up and Holland are brillaint, to me thats where the Beach Boys ended. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:20:25 -0500 From: "webmaster" Subject: PROG RIOT The only difference between the Clash and ELO is ten years. That punk pose on their first album - jaws open oh aren't we tough - is as lame as ELO's afro's... But if you think Struemmer is a hero than you're sure to agree that Roy Wood was too. Just apply the same standard to both bands (and eras) is my point. TOO much music has been released post 76 under the dubious Art banner - thus a reapprasial of all prior history is in order. Good is Good out of every genre, era, etc... One person's Clash is another's ELO is another's Wire. I for one kinda dig the 'musical' side of the early seventies (That's a lifestyle choice, mates, so don't throw that back at me). Of course there was a ton of shit released. Always was, will be... charles > "Honestly I don't know why people on a WIRE list are so close-minded about > other music. It's a silly paradox. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:44:36 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: Brits Love Britney I knew it! Slag off The Cars. Attack Jerry Lee. Knock the Clash for "going American." But you can't resist "Swedish Pop Perfection"!!! ABBA still rules! NME LOVES BRITNEY! Britney Spears Oops!... I Did It Again (Jive) To fully appreciate a Britney Spears song, you've got to have seen the video about 15 times. You have to have first digested each piece of razor-sharp choreography, each flick of the lashes, each pop-genius hook and chord change. To realise the evil genius behind this pop phenomenon is frightening. Against cynical opinion, the reason why Britney Spears has sold 28 million albums across the globe is because she's modern-day pop perfection realised in a, nearly, human form. Like it or not, the songs penned for Britney by Swedish producer Max Martin, the man behind the even more successful Backstreet Boys, get into your brain like ketamine. An all-encompassing, horrendously realised high - once it's inside you, there's little you can do to stop it, you must give in. In its own sick way, Britney is drug music. Case in point is album opener and comeback single 'Oops! I Did It Again'. Essentially a harder, carbon copy of 'Baby One More Time', it's easily as good as her breakthrough single. You get your fix in a second of the song opening - the taut '80s Michael Jackson riffs, the squeals, the killer chorus, the uplifting middle bit, it's all in there. Did you really think she'd let you down? There's the deranged helium synth pop of 'Stronger' with the huge ABBA chord change in the chorus that sounds scarier and more robotic than the Backstreet Boys. The 21st-century R&B of Timbaland is bastardised, beaten and strangled to within an inch of its life with 'Don't Go Knockin' On My Door' while the Mutt Lange-penned 'Don't Let Me Be The Last To Know' takes the riff from Iggy/Bowie's 'China Girl' and puts it over schmaltzy cocktail-hour bass and love film strings. It's absolutely frightening. So, the long-awaited - and ill-advised - cover of the Stones' '(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction' is a letdown, but soon-to-be-single 'Lucky' is perhaps Britney's finest moment. The ultimate mallrat, bittersweet teenage symphony. It's Britney's 'Where Did It All Go Wrong?'. A heart-rending tale of life at the top of the teen pop tree, transformed into an anthem for dramatic, moody 12-year-old girls everywhere by Max Martin's scary talent for teenybop lyrics. "If there's nothing missing in my life/Then why do these tears come at night?" sounds pretty fucking heavy when you've just been dumped and Britney's Mickey Mouse Club-trained falsetto is reaching its peak. Sorry, but she's done it again - the difficult second album proved to be a piece of piss. Whether the fickle world of the Top Ten will let it happen again remains to be seen, but in the absence of anything else (hello, Christina Aguilera) Britney's going to walk it. On the sly, you know you love it. 8/10 Andy Capper ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:16:30 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: Brits Love Britney II I'm sorry for bitter tone, lads and lasses, but I've about had it with this hit phenom and her Novocain smile. When NME starts praising her (this is WORSE than Rolling Stone putting The Backstreet Boys on the Cover as Artists of the Year), it makes me want to lock myself in my apartment and listen to Pink Flag, over and over and over and over and over again. No, no, no, no, MR SUIT! George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 01:17:01 EDT From: VoxxJaguar@aol.com Subject: Re: Teevee Stax In a message dated 5/30/00 3:15:55 PM Central Daylight Time, owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org writes: > > I saw the Cabs a few times between 81 and 84....a power trio from another > planet.....great visuals too - screens and stacks of TV sets...sort of > effect > U2 borrowed on a grander scale much, much later with Zoo TV. > I must add that nobody stacks tv's better than Man or AstroMan!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:52:30 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: In defense of The Cars (Re: Oi!! ELO!!! No!!!!!) An acceptable choice of course...providing we are talking the line up that included the Madcap Genius, Syd Barrett.....Respect is most definatelt due Vegetableman.....wandering and dreaming.... > Pink Floyd: absolutely > > Just childhood prejudices coming to the fore, I'd say. From glancing at > > other posts, I gather that certain people here listened to the likes of Led > > Zep & Pink Floyd & Yes as kids ... insert those bands' names for ELO & Cars > > in some of these little diatribes, & I'd probably strain my neck nodding in > > agreement. > > > > Dan > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:39:36 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: cv/omd In a message dated 5/30/0 4:24:49 PM, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > >I have almost everything recorded by OMD, >>for goodness sake. We all have our soft underbellies. >Which probably means you have some B-sides I don't have. Bastard. anyone ever hear omd's 66 and fading (b-side to i forget which song) and the cabs doublevision? pretty much the same beautiful song. nice to drive to... - -paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:47:51 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: The Cabs p.s. blurt In a message dated 5/30/0 1:46:43 PM, hspencer@oup.co.uk writes: > >4 Sensoria (1984)- they were trying hard to sell out with this one, but >even so ... anyone remember the video, with the emaciated preacher doing >the `always work/go to church/ respect those in power' sampled hot-prot >thing? And the camera on a see-saw effect? Did the Cabs make any impression on America at all? i love that video! i'd say they had only marginal success in the clubs here, with "i want you," "sensoria," and "don't argue." i love everything from crackdown through code. unique and it has a beat you can dance to. i give it an 80! :o) voice of america and the early singles ("no escape" is great) are faves too. noisy and a beat you can dance to. i give it an 80 too! - -paul p.s. wow! ted milton on stage with wire!! what i wouldn't give to see that :o( i was one of about four people who attended a blurt gig in ny in the early 80's. outstanding! too bad noone else knew...or cared. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 9:46:30 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Drifting CD little pricey maybe? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Drifting CD Author: UNIX:alisonkh@xoommail.com at INTERNET Date: 30/05/2000 16:17 I have a CD for sale from the 2nd Annual Festival of Drifting. It is one 40 minute mix by Robin Gutherie containing tracks / excerpts from Silo, Sonic Youth, Chris & Cosey, Casper Brotzman, La Bradford etc. I'm asking £25 for this classic collectible. Email me privately. AKH. ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:12:51 +0100 From: "Uri Baran" Subject: Re: Garage,etc I went to all 3. There was some variation especially on the last night with a 'new' song with Graham on vocals and two 'clarinets'? one manned by ted Milton. Heartbeat was by then a new song. Fabulous evening. Uri - -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Clough To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: 30 May 2000 18:08 Subject: Garage,etc > >Did anyone attend all three nights - I'm sure they did. Was there much >variation ? I heard one new song on the Friday "Hypnotise" (?). Is there >the basis of a new set forming ? > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #165 *******************************