From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #155 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, May 24 2000 Volume 03 : Number 155 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 [Howard Spencer ] Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! [paul.rabjohn@ssab.] Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! [MarkBursa@aol.] Re[4]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! [paul.rabjohn@ssab.] albiniWire ["MackDaddyD" ] RE: politics and music ["Ciscon, Ray" ] OT:Grammar Cops ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Minimal Compact Live ["giluz" ] Re: Minimal Compact Live [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: wire and steve albini.... ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] re: wire and steve albini.... [Jack Steinmann ] RE: wire and steve albini.... ["giluz" ] Re: wire and steve albini.... ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! [MarkBursa@aol.] Re: Re: wire and steve albini.... [outdoorminer@mindspring.com] Re: OT:Grammar Cops ["tube disaster" ] Re: wire and steve albini.... ["ian barrett" ] Re: wire and steve albini.... ["Alyce Ornella" ] Re: Re: wire and steve albini.... [outdoorminer@mindspring.com] Re: wire and steve albini.... [Creatured ] Re: Re: wire and steve albini.... [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: wire and steve albini.... [Paul Pietromonaco ] Bowie Bashing, Orchid Show [Max Schmid ] Re: wire and steve albini.... [Keith Vercauteren ] RE: wire and steve albini.... ["Laurel G" ] [none] ["lucifersam" ] '80s Bowie all bad ? ["sean bowen" ] Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! ["lucifersam" <] re: wire and steve albini.... [Jack Steinmann ] Re: wire and steve albini.... [Marc Ostermeier ] Fwd: Exclusive Interview [Miles Goosens ] Bowie Highs......Lest we Forget... ["lucifersam" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:55:24 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 Bowie "lows" (ironcally, 'Low' was one the highs, IMO) 1. Band Aid. `There are more starving children in the world than ever before'. Very astute observation, David. Well done. 2. Tin Machine. The only band ever to go on Top of the Pops (as far as i know) after the record had gone DOWN in the charts. 3. 1977 quote (from tax exile, I believe) - 'Fascism would do Britain good'. Fuckwit. 4. His latest hairdo. Might look nice on someone 30 years younger. Grow up! 5. 'Under Pressure'. Supergroup collaborations should be nuked. 6. 'Dancin in the Street'. As above. That will do for now. Have to say that I think TMC's version of Not Me is far better than Colin's demo, which is a demo, after all. His vocal is flat, in both senses of the word, and I miss those nice crashy guitars. For ages I never realised that song was a Newman production (observant, eh?) but it was my favourite track on that album anyway. Which is kind of reassuring. It's all about a trip to Dali's museum in Figueras, Catalunya, and being profoundly unaffected by it, for those without Kevin's book. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:37:53 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! Bowie "lows" (ironcally, 'Low' was one the highs, IMO) 1. Band Aid. `There are more starving children in the world than ever before'. Very astute observation, David. Well done. >>>>> yep , you can always trust the dame to have his finger on the pulse 2. Tin Machine. The only band ever to go on Top of the Pops (as far as i know) after the record had gone DOWN in the charts. >>>>> i have a friend who worships at the bowie altar , despite all evidence that this may be getting ever more unwise. it is to my eternal shame that i accompanied him to see tin machine at wolverhampton civic a few years back ("come on , it'll be great. your chance to see bowie in a small club". yeah , right.) the gig was in my all time bottom 5 , amongst numerous lows the covers of the pixies "debaser" and moody blues "go now" remain in my worst nightmares. 3. 1977 quote (from tax exile, I believe) - 'Fascism would do Britain good'. Fuckwit. >>>>> you're forgetting the nazi salute at victoria station. that was nice too. 4. His latest hairdo. Might look nice on someone 30 years younger. Grow up! >>>> i wonder if its a rug? 5. 'Under Pressure'. Supergroup collaborations should be nuked. >>>>> does his "little drummer boy" with bing fall into that category. what a stormer that was 6. 'Dancin in the Street'. As above. >>>>>> and the placebo duet. That will do for now. oh no it won't. possibly the all time low point was his "lords prayer" at the mandela concert. for fuck's sake , i almost choked at that one. he'd blame some of the above atrocities on his drug intake but these days he's supposed to be clean and sharp witted. don't start me off...p ps best recent bowie moment for me was when chris evans tried to start discussing his bisexual past. boy did he clam up fast , not interested in discussing that at all. all round family entertainer these days i guess? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:46:33 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! Paul, Do you remember when Bowie announced he was playing a greatest hits tour - and that the set would be based on fans' requests? The NME organised a write-in capaign for Laughing Gnome....Of course, he had to play it every night - grudgingly.... Not sure whether that's a high or a low!! Cheers, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:13:58 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! did he really play it? i thought he just bottled it and made some limp excuse like he'd never agreed to go along with the result. certainly would have been better than "little wonder".p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! Author: MIME:MarkBursa@aol.com at INTERNET Date: 23/05/2000 14:49 Paul, Do you remember when Bowie announced he was playing a greatest hits tour - and that the set would be based on fans' requests? The NME organised a write-in capaign for Laughing Gnome....Of course, he had to play it every night - grudgingly.... Not sure whether that's a high or a low!! Cheers, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:29:16 -0500 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: albiniWire albini is a very good engineer. from many reports (no personal experience here) an arogant bastard, but one with accomplishments to back it up. it is not a conceit when he says he is not a producer - his ethic is to record the artist as they wish. there's a major difference between an accurate live recording and something done in a garage. i imagine wire came away tapes with a great drum sound, real sounding guitars and full bass - a lost art imho. what they do with them now is anybody's guess __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:02:37 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: politics and music I couldn't agree more. Ray Ciscon -----Original Message----- From: MackDaddyD [mailto:dmack2002@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:52 AM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: politics and music i generally appreciate politics from musicians about as much as music from politicians ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:09:53 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: OT:Grammar Cops Tube Disaster Wrote: Since someone flashed a Grammar Cop badge yesterday, I guess I'll note that in this case the verb should be "fazed." Then again, I've been making a living (of sorts) by screwing with other people's words for 1/4th of my life now, & I always have to take care not to confuse "sell" with "sale" (hell, throw in "cell," "cel" & "sail," too, probably). Dan How about my all time favorite internet grammar/spelling mistake: People typing loose, when they mean lose. Major Pet Peeve of mine, that I just attribute to the decaying standards in US schools... Cheers, Ray ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:03:58 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Minimal Compact Live > total change of subject ; have you got "minimal compact live". is > that the tour you saw them on? > I've seen Minimal Compact three times: 1984 (or maybe 1985 - it was the Deadly Weapons tour), 1986 with Colin, and 1987, which was the Figure One Cuts Tour from which the CD was recorded. I've got the CD, and its sound really sucks. It doesn't resemble their full stage sound at all. I used to have a tape of the 87 gig which I recorded myself, and it sounded much better than the CD. Anyway the 87 gig was really good - It was mostly made of new material taken from the Figure One Cuts which was not yet released at the time, and which I think is perhaps their best album (alongwith Deadly Weapons). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:32:45 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Minimal Compact Live the sleeve of the live lp really made me laugh ; absolutely no text on it at all , could have been anyone. i was wondering if that gig (in rennes) was the same one colin played on his "it seems" tour , but i guess its the wrong year , same club. "figure one cuts" is the only mc album i've not heard , must get that some day.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Minimal Compact Live Author: MIME:giluz@nettalk.com at INTERNET Date: 23/05/2000 17:05 > total change of subject ; have you got "minimal compact live". is > that the tour you saw them on? > I've seen Minimal Compact three times: 1984 (or maybe 1985 - it was the Deadly Weapons tour), 1986 with Colin, and 1987, which was the Figure One Cuts Tour from which the CD was recorded. I've got the CD, and its sound really sucks. It doesn't resemble their full stage sound at all. I used to have a tape of the 87 gig which I recorded myself, and it sounded much better than the CD. Anyway the 87 gig was really good - It was mostly made of new material taken from the Figure One Cuts which was not yet released at the time, and which I think is perhaps their best album (alongwith Deadly Weapons). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:40:25 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: wire and steve albini.... > >New recordings = good. > > > >Steve Albini = not so good. > > I am not an expert on Steve's production values... but I liked what > he did with the Auteurs (After Murder Park). It did not best their > album New Wave, but it was a nice change and good for it. So, given > the song selection... I am actually looking forward to hearing what > he has done with the tracks. Putting on my recording engineer/producer hat for a moment, what Steve Albini does is very specialized. He does not have "crappy" sound, in my opinion - I'd call it an "unvarnished" sound. He generally doesn't use limiters, equalization, etc. - his methodology is very specific and purist. If your band doesn't have good sounding equipment, his recording technique will show that. In fact, he has to be forced to credit himself as a "producer" by the artist - he generally only claims "Recorded by Steve Albini". What a recording of Wire by Steve Albini would sound like is "The Third Day", only with less studio gloss. On a high-end stereo, it would actually sound like Wire is in the room with you. On a lesser stereo, it would sound kinda poor. That's usually the tradeoff you have to make when you mix - sound quality on high-end gear vs. sound quality on low end gear. I'm *very* curious to hear what it would sound like, since Steve generally does the best with bands he really likes - and Wire is definitely one of them. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2000 10:52:52 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: wire and steve albini.... The recording should sound better than "The Third Day," both because the band has been playing together for awhile now and also because Albini does more than just set up the microphones and leave the room. I disagree that his recording will sound 'poor' on a 'lesser stereo.' Maybe it won't sound 'loud' or compressed, but that's not the same as 'poor.' Jack Paul Pietromonaco wrote: >What a recording of Wire by Steve Albini would sound like is "The Third >Day", only with less studio gloss. On a high-end stereo, it would actually >sound like Wire is in the room with you. On a lesser stereo, it would >sound kinda poor. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:12:36 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: wire and steve albini.... > Putting on my recording engineer/producer hat for a moment, what Steve > Albini does is very specialized. He does not have "crappy" sound, in my > opinion - I'd call it an "unvarnished" sound. He generally doesn't use > limiters, equalization, etc. - his methodology is very specific > and purist. I'm not an Albini expert at all, but this sounds really promising. First of all, it corresponds to Wire's "back to basics" attitude which we've seen on the tour. Secondly, on a more personal note, I'm kinda sick of over-production - it's been done so many times now and I'm quite bored with it. If a sound is recorded and played well, EQ and FX won't be much use. I'd love it if the next Wire recording sounded a bit like The Third Day - I thought it had one of the most brilliant rehearsal takes sound I've ever heard. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:19:32 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: wire and steve albini.... >I disagree that his recording will sound 'poor' on a 'lesser stereo.' >Maybe it won't sound 'loud' or compressed, but that's not >the same as 'poor.' No - actually it will sound poor. "Loud" and "Compressed" is not the exactly the issue here. For instance, because of the excessive mid-range peaking in cheap speaker drivers, everything sounds wrong unless you add bass and treble, which you then have to compress because the excessive amount of bass will distort the speakers. You should see the cheap speakers we use to simulate low end systems. Believe me - if you don't compress and re-equalize for low end systems, it sounds terrible, whereas the heavily compressed, and re-eq'd stuff sounds - well, it doesn't sound great, but it does sound acceptable on low end systems. Of course, it then sounds heavily compressed and re-eq'd on high end systems, but for the Backstreet Boys and Christina Aquilera, no one seems to care. (^_^) We used to use Albini's recordings as a test for high end systems, actually. Especially the first Shellac album on vinyl - if your system wasn't up to snuff, it sounded flat, dead. If you had a great system, it sounded more real than most recordings. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:21:02 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! Paul, << Sorry to shatter your illusions old chap. Buit as far as I'm aware he ignored taht one completely. Would have shown a sense of humour though!!!!!!!! >> I'm sure I read a review which said he played it....Perhaps just at a London gig?? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:03:45 -0400 From: outdoorminer@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: wire and steve albini.... Paul Pietromonaco wrote: >> >I disagree that his recording will sound 'poor' on a 'lesser stereo.' >>Maybe it won't sound 'loud' or compressed, but that's not >>the same as 'poor.' > >No - actually it will sound poor. "Loud" and "Compressed" is not the >exactly the issue here. For instance, because of the excessive mid-range >peaking in cheap speaker drivers, everything sounds wrong unless you add >bass and treble, which you then have to compress because the excessive >amount of bass will distort the speakers. > >We used to use Albini's recordings as a test for high end systems, >actually. Especially the first Shellac album on vinyl - if your system >wasn't up to snuff, it sounded flat, dead. If you had a great system, it >sounded more real than most recordings. So if I understand this discussion correctly, to hear a $15 Albini-"recorded" CD properly, I need a $3000+ stereo system? I guess I shouldn't have bought any non-Albini-helmed CDs over the past five or ten years, investing the proceeds in high-end hardware so I could listen to RID OF ME and IN UTERO the way St. Steve meant them to be heard. Sheesh. For a guy who reentitled a CD reissue of a Big Black album THE RICH MAN'S EIGHT-TRACK, this strikes me as a hypocritical low. And I did not think the Page & Plant album sounded well-recorded. Rather, it sounded like a strange and unsatisfying compromise between the P&P and Albini aesthetics -- guitar and vocal sounding strong, but rhythm section sounding dryer than six-month-old celery in the crisper. Of course, I was playing it on my vintage 1996 $1500 system, so maybe my head's up my ass on this one. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:06:33 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: OT:Grammar Cops >Tube Disaster Wrote: > > >Since someone flashed a Grammar Cop badge yesterday, I guess I'll note that >in this case the verb should be "fazed." Then again, I've been making a >living (of sorts) by screwing with other people's words for 1/4th of my life >now, & I always have to take care not to confuse "sell" with "sale" (hell, >throw in "cell," "cel" & "sail," too, probably). > >Dan > > >How about my all time favorite internet grammar/spelling mistake: > >People typing loose, when they mean lose. > >Major Pet Peeve of mine, that I just attribute to the decaying standards in >US schools... > >Cheers, > >Ray One of my favorites, definitely. Not to mention "grizzly" for "grisly" (which I've seen in the slick newsweeklies, for godssakes), not that it comes up as often as loose/lose, of course ... There's also the practice of combing the words "a" & "lot" into one erroneously used word, as in "alot to learn." A friend of mine who went through the same editing & publishing procedures program in grad school as I did & works in the business (unlike my mere newspaperman self) uses that one all the time, I'm sorry to say. *sigh* Of course, if I just committed any grammatical sins myself, as is possible (almost inevitable, really, when one is complaining about same), I'm blaming it on illness. Turns out that the fever I was whining about a few days ago apparently was a symptom of walking pneumonia, or so the doctor proclaimed yesterday. Back to bed, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:59:57 +0100 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: wire and steve albini.... Does anybody have the word on what the recordings will consist of? New material or studio versions of the stuff they've been playing live. If the former, great! If the latter, why? Also, can anybody tell me anything about CN1 Re Albini; I think I recall he was prevented from playing live at various venues in the late 80s on account of his band's name. Also, without the technical knowledge of Paul P, I feel somewhat underqualified to comment, except to say that The PJ Harvey album he was involved in sounds pretty ropey. (Around the same time, Wire were scheduled to play Manchester University, supported by Band of Susans and Rollins Band. That could've been quite a night. Not sure why it was cancelled! Ian (who is pissed off because he can't make ANY night at the Garage) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:08:13 CDT From: "Alyce Ornella" Subject: Re: wire and steve albini.... >Re Albini; I think I recall he was prevented from playing live at various >venues in the late 80s on account of his band's name. >Also, without the technical knowledge of Paul P, I feel somewhat >underqualified to comment, except to say that The PJ Harvey album he was >involved in sounds pretty ropey. Would that be his band Rapeman? I'm only familiar with Big Black and Shellac, and can't see either those bands being in trouble because of name...I think Surfer Rosa sounds incredible and may have the best production of any Pixies album, and I'm also a fan of Atomizer's sound, which I have on vinyl not CD. The sheer intense screeching of the guitars on that album amazes me, particularily on Passing Complexion and Jordan, Minnesota. Alyce ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:52:16 -0400 From: outdoorminer@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: wire and steve albini.... Alyce Ornella wrote: >name...I think Surfer Rosa sounds incredible and may have the best >production of any Pixies album, and I'm also a fan of Atomizer's sound, >which I have on vinyl not CD. The sheer intense screeching of the guitars >on that album amazes me, particularily on Passing Complexion and Jordan, >Minnesota. Lest someone think I'm inherently inimical to Albini, I'll gladly cite ATOMIZER and SURFER ROSA (if I didn't mention the latter in my initial post on the subject, I sure meant to) as examples of Albini's superior production work during his early stints as a knob-twiddler. If his latter productions had the dynamism of those two albums, I'd be happy to endorse him. IMO there's a point in the late '80s where his methods took on dogmatic rigidity, and it's from there out that he becomes a liability. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: Re: wire and steve albini.... Isn't Breaking Circus have a ex Big Black member or a future Shellac member. Anyways,Breaking Circus ,i felt,were a great band that didn't really ever get much attention. Thier album Ice Machine is a excellent album as is thier E.P. Smokers Paradise. - --- Alyce Ornella wrote: > > >Re Albini; I think I recall he was prevented from playing live at > various > >venues in the late 80s on account of his band's name. > >Also, without the technical knowledge of Paul P, I feel somewhat > >underqualified to comment, except to say that The PJ Harvey album he > was > >involved in sounds pretty ropey. > > Would that be his band Rapeman? I'm only familiar with Big Black and > Shellac, and can't see either those bands being in trouble because of > > name...I think Surfer Rosa sounds incredible and may have the best > production of any Pixies album, and I'm also a fan of Atomizer's > sound, > which I have on vinyl not CD. The sheer intense screeching of the > guitars > on that album amazes me, particularily on Passing Complexion and > Jordan, > Minnesota. > Alyce > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:48:14 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: Re: wire and steve albini.... >So if I understand this discussion correctly, to hear a $15 >Albini-"recorded" CD properly, I need a $3000+ stereo system? Naw - just buy the vinyl. Steve *hates* CDs. (^_^) And, for the record, when I say low end stereo gear, I'm thinking more along the lines of really low-end gear. $100-$200 price range. REALLY low end stuff - the kind that middle America seems to love to buy. (^_^) >Sheesh. For a guy who reentitled a CD reissue of a Big Black >album THE RICH MAN'S EIGHT-TRACK, this strikes me as a >hypocritical low. > Actually, it's in keeping with his aesthetic. Check out these notes from my CD copy of Shellac's "At Action Park": "Recorded electrically during March 1994. This was not mastered directly to metal or pressed into 165 grams of virgin dye-blackened vinyl. " "There is, in fact, nothing at all special about the manufacture of this compact disc." Of course, Steve being Steve, he did do one special thing to this CD. He kept the volume low - not using digital limiting to push the overall signal up to the zero digital level. I appreciated that. >And I did not think the Page & Plant album sounded well-recorded. >Rather, it sounded like a strange and unsatisfying compromise >between the P&P and Albini aesthetics -- guitar and vocal sounding >strong, but rhythm section sounding dryer than six-month-old celery >in the crisper. Of course, I was playing it on my vintage 1996 $1500 >system, so maybe my head's up my ass on this one. > I never did pick up this album. The strong guitar sound I would expect from an Albini recording, but it's interesting that you mention the vocals sounded strong. Generally, that's the one area where Albini falls somewhat short - he tends to bury the vocals in the mix. Supposedly, that's the reason Nirvana had Scott Litt remix those two songs off of "In Utero" - the vocals were mixed too low. And, of course, you're at the mercy of the CD mastering engineer, who can add EQ and stereo limiting during the CD mastering process - changing the overall tonality of the recording. This is especially important for tapes mastered on analog tape recorders, since there's always a little difference in frequency response between analog decks - although you record test tones on the master tapes to try to minimize this. I'm assuming that Steve masters to analog - he strikes me as a guy who would do that kind of thing. (^_^) If someone like Bob Ludwig, for instance, does the CD mastering, then chances are it sounds pretty close to the master tapes. But this can be where serious differences are introduced. Head up your ass? Nah - I don't think so. (^_^) Wonder what the vinyl sounded like on the Page and Plant album... Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:54:00 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: wire and steve albini.... >Re Albini; I think I recall he was prevented from playing live at various >venues in the late 80s on account of his band's name. Was it because of the name Big Black, or the name of his next band, Rapeman? >(Around the same time, Wire were scheduled to play Manchester University, >supported by Band of Susans and Rollins Band. That could've been quite a >night. Not sure why it was cancelled! That would have been an intense show! Imagine the all-star jam afterwards. (^_^) >Ian (who is pissed off because he can't make ANY night at the Garage) > Yeah - I'm not going either. Already spent my vacation budget travelling from Seattle to the UK for the RFH show. Too bad, too, because the small club shows have been amazing. I'm still reeling from the Seattle show. And, yes, I'm going to write a review at some point. Sheesh! Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:54:33 -0400 From: Max Schmid Subject: Bowie Bashing, Orchid Show At 04:30 AM 5/23/2000 -0400, paul.rabjohn wrote: >2. so nobody was impressed with me meeting martin gore. huh! ok so i wasn't "lucky" enough to see david bowie...... what a wanker that guy is. i can really see him getting some heavy physical threats at a wire gig so who can blame him taking some muscle along , i am considering hiring some myself for highbury actually as i was a little scared at the rfh. It wasn't Bowie muscle, it was Irving Plaza muscle. I saw one of those guys at the head table in the reserved section. Counterpoint to the black gay waiters, I guess. >What: The Orchid Show, (World Premiere), a unique collaboration between >The Neta Dance Company, and the English rock band, XTC. "His wife's attending an orchid show She squealed for a week to get him to go" -FZ Sorry kids, before your time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:12:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Keith Vercauteren Subject: Re: wire and steve albini.... I haven't commented on this list in months, but here I go... Back when I heard Wire were getting back together and taking a "back to basics" approach, I thought "they should record with Albini" to compliment that approach. And I was very excited to read that they were doing exactly that. While I'm sure a lot of the tech-heads out who get into their ultra-polished later work will be dissapointed, I think the end results have the potential to be quite interesting. I must say I'm a fan of Albini's recording style, as well as the bands he's personally played in. I like records to be quite "raw" these days and the idea of hearing wire "in the raw" should please me. Whatever... As for this: > Isn't Breaking Circus have a ex Big Black member or a future Shellac > member. Anyways,Breaking Circus ,i felt,were a great band that didn't > really ever get much attention. Thier album Ice Machine is a excellent > album as is thier E.P. Smokers Paradise. Future Shellac drummer Todd Trainer was in Breaking Circus, as well as Rifle Sport and Brick Layer Cake (a sort-of solo project that is still active). Yeah, I own those Breaking Circus records and I love em'. Someone has to reissue that stuff on C.D. for all the non-vinyl buyers out there (delusional dipshits!). Later, Keith V. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:44:59 CDT From: "Laurel G" Subject: RE: wire and steve albini.... I wrote this earlier but didn't get a chance to send - and now I see some of my questions have already been answered - but in the interest of irritating everyone enormously (just kidding, mostly I'm too lazy to edit it now) I'll send it anyways because it carries on something someone else said I'm going strictly from memory here, not the best idea, especially in relation to Steve Albini - but it seems to me from interviews and his own articles that he is against all this refinement - he wants it to sound "real" not overmastered - am I thinking right that this is his philosophy? - although Terraforma is pretty slick, compared to other CDs of his I have - maybe he's progressed and I haven't followed - and does he still hold to the "don't call me a producer, call me a technician" thingy? quoted from the face of a CD by Big Black - Songs about F***ing "this compact disk is made from analog masters re-recorded without noise reduction. half the tracks, in fact, were recorded in a dismal, cheap basement eight-track studio with puddles of water on the floor. digital technology will now faithfully reproduce those noisy, low-fi, unprofessional masters for you at great expense. Feel stupid yet?" and yes I did, but at the same time laughing out loud I know punk bands that go to great expense and trouble to take slick recordings, play them through old systems and re-record them (simplified assessment) just to get that sound he's talking about but don't go by what I say - I've only read almost everything he's written, every interview he's ever given, have cds from all his bands (Rapeman was a Japanese cartoon character if I'm not mistaken btw) - yet when someone asked me do I know who Steve Albini is, my brillant answer was "I should know that name" - so this is a disclaimer if I got this ALL backwards Laurel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:09:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "lucifersam" Subject: [none] <007301bfc4fa$1fd23080$7685bc3e@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: 'Old bastard' with much to interest younger IdealCopy subsribers Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:07:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Blimey, I didn't realise I was an elder Statesman!!!!!! There must be someone hear as old as me...;-) > Sam, > > If you get time, I'd be really interested if you could put together a > few brief notes on some of the Wire gigs you saw in the '70s (and I'm sure > the List would, too). > < Did you see Notre Dame Hall '79 ? Or any of the Jeanette Cochrane nights < Or Electric Ballroom D & E ? > < The tapes I have of these dates suggest an audience largely confused, > calling for "12XU" and not realising their policy of not playing any = early > stuff. What was the view from someone who was there ? > < Look forward to hearing from you, > < Sean. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lucifersam > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 11:57 PM > Subject: New Bloke..... > > > Hello people, Just a short note to say hello. I'm new to this group. > > A friend of mine in Chicago told me about it, sent me copies of > > some of the digests he gets and it seems like the level of debate > > is pretty ace. Anyway, I know it's a Wire based group, so just to > > qualify my presence.....I'm probably an old bastard compared to > > most of you lot. I first saw Wire supporting The Saints at the > > Marquee in, ooohhh, about May '77....Yep! That Fucking old... > > I always thought they were what Punk 'Should' have been at the > > time. Inventive, Intelligent and every so slightly quirky. Sadly, all > > too > > many of the band wagon jumpers at the time were Wankers who > > missed the point completely. Obviously, they proved there worth > > far beyond punk over the years and trancended that label. I also > > remember seeing them at The Notre Dam Hall, in London. > > They were supported by a group called Visa versa who weny on to > > become ABC!!! Yep, Heady days! Anyway, I'm off to see them at > > The Garage @ Highbury for the saturday night bash. I hope that all > > of you who are going have a good time. I generally try not to get too > > bogged down in the past, I listen to a lot of dance music these days, > > but I guess alittle bit of Nostalgia dont do too much harm;-) > > I hope you dont mind me sticking my nose into your debates now > > and again...See ya later....The Siam Cat........ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:47:18 +0100 From: "sean bowen" Subject: '80s Bowie all bad ? I liked 'This is not America' with Pat Metheny band. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:23:47 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 12:37 PM Subject: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V3 #154 ; david we love you ! > 3. 1977 quote (from tax exile, I believe) - 'Fascism would do Britain good'. Fuckwit. > This was one of his more stupid quotes. It was in '76' during Station to Station...and far too many nights on the Charlie. A strange drug that..... ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2000 09:17:54 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: wire and steve albini.... Now Miles, Mr. Albini would likely take issue with your assessment of his recording philosophy, whatever you may think of his results. The Page/Plant album wasn't poorly recorded. I think he will do right by the band. Miles Goosens wrote: >He seems to conflate form and content, as though his syllogism is "garage >punk records were great because they were recorded terribly."To him, >poor sound is the hallmark of quality music, rather than the unfortunate >result of young hungry bands having little or no recording budget. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:58:06 -0400 From: Marc Ostermeier Subject: Re: wire and steve albini.... I am surprised that there have been several negative comments on Steve Albini's recording touch. Though I haven't heard a wide variety of stuff he's recorded, I find that the following albums: 18th Dye "Tribute to a Bus" Bedhead "Transactions de Novo" Low "Secret Name" (I think that's the title) are all the best by these bands, in part, I think, do to his wonderful recording (I find it beautiful). That Wire has recorded with Steve Albini is very exciting, particularly since many Wire albums have some questionable production values (The EMI ones were ahead of their time, produciton-wise, but come up short by today's standards). - -Marc ____________________________ Marc Ostermeier, Ph.D. Department of Chemistry The Pennsylvania State University 152 Davey Lab, Box 115 University Park, PA 16802 email: mao10@psu.edu Tel(814)865-9508 Fax(814)865-2973 ____________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:16:39 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Fwd: Exclusive Interview >From: "John Srebalus" >To: >Subject: Exclusive Interview >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:10:15 -0700 > >Wire fans: > >We at Checkout.com are running an exclusive interview with Wire. It can be >found at http://www.checkout.com on both the music FEATURES and ALTERNATIVE >pages. It will thereafter be archived and attached to the band's artist >page, as well as to most of their album titles. > >Please take a look. > >Thank you. >John > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:07:35 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Bowie Highs......Lest we Forget... Had a look at the "Bowie Lows" list and thought I'd counter balance the list....Just for fun..... The Siam Cat... 1. The Man Who Sold The World. Anybody who can mention Khalil Gibran on record is a genius as far as I'm concerned! 2. "Life on Mars" How to out do Frank Sinatra and sing about Lennon, a Cow and Micky Mouse. Oh, and while your at it, one of the great vocals of the 1970's..... 3. "Ziggy Stardust" "Star Man" on 'Lift Off-With Aisha Brough" at school the next day.'Did you see that bloke on the telly last night? He dyed his hair red!!! Great'..... "Star Man" on TOTP...Bowie puts his arm around Mick Ronson, Pouts out the words and changes the face of popular culture overnight. The nail into the coffin of the 60's denim clad ideal - Let The Children Boogie!!!! 4. "Raw Power" Iggy is down and out, laying in pool of vomit in some New York bar. In walks Lou and the Zigster. a Few beers, an introduction to Defries...lets get this loser back on his feet.... What d' ya get??? The meanest, nastiest, filthy piece of Rock'n'Roll known to man... Search and Fuckin' Destroy....... 4a."Transformer" Poor old Lou, He's been doing everything he can to kick start his career since the 'Velvets split..... What to do now...."David....David...help.." Lou thinks back to that Limey bloke who came down to the Factory a while back. There mates now. Bowie Ripped Lou off with "Queen Bitch" but fuck it, the Zigster is hot stuff....He always did it better than Lou anyway....."Satelite of Love"...Listen to those backing vocals, those arrangements, those strings.... New York attitude, done in a London Stylee.... Hit me with a flower!!!! 5. "Young Americans" Well kid. Your the hottest thing since The Beatles, you've just changed the face of popular culture. The kids love ya. Glam Rock'nRoll is hot...Keep with the formular boy, you'll clean up.... 'FUCK THAT' Formulars are for Jagger and those other has been rockers.....Sweet soul music...Luther and Ava. Lets get our arses to Philly and sell snow to the eskimo's..... Diamond Dogs was the start, the Candidate made his way to the mid west.....Coke to the fullest, and he aint talkin' Americas top soft drink...paranoia....come downs and week long binges.. Urgency and energy...what'll come out, the kids wanna dance. "Play me one damn song that can make me, break down and cry" He Did......loads of the bastards. 6. "Station to Station" / Man who Fell to Earth..... Berlin....Cocaine...Kraftwerk....Hmmm Thomas Jerome Newton, he's a cold bastard, but looks as cool as fuck. Ziggy's dead, the soul boy's bored...It can only mean one thing... "The Return of the Thin White Duke"- Bowies Best.. Roeg's Classice film, Another genre defining LP. "Throwing Darts in Lovers eyes"...The coolest fucking haircut ever seen in Rock'nRoll...Golden years indeed. "It's not the side effects of the cocaine, I'm thinkin' that it must be love"...... 7. "Low/Heroes/lodger" The Pistols are kicking the shit out of hippies, EMI look mugs, The Clash are Rioting in white hot style.... Theres a new bandwagon to be jumped on here,no chance. Jagger gets a skinny tie..twat....Bowies found a new muse. Eno's on the block and twiddling knobs, let's get the band playing eachothers instruments, chuck it in the pot and spit it straight back out again, and lets get Fripp in for the next one...The Avante Garde and Rock'nRoll dont make Happy bedfellows, RCA aint happy. "Heroes" the best LP of '77. Ferry would have killed for that song...The kids Have been listening...Joy Division...et al..... as have Newman, Lewis,Gotobed and Gilbert...... 8. "ScareyMonsters" Billy's, The Blitz, Studio 21....The kids wanna dress up. Punk is dead, long gone. Crass, Anti-Pasti and Mohawk haircuts.Fuck off!! They didn't miss the point, they didn't know there was one.Wankers. Billy's on a tuesday night. Egan and Harrington are DJ'ing, George is in tonight, so is Billy Idol...20 people in tonight. What's it all about....Iggy, Kraftwerk, Bowie, Ultravox,Lou, The Velvets...Bowies Watching....Time to lay 'Major Tom' to rest...'Fashion' is on the street...Bowie visits Blitz......come and be in my video Steve...oh yes. The man has come up with the goods again. And uses the kids he's influenced so massively. " I'm not some piece of Teenage Wildlife!" 9. OK...The rest of the 80's were shit....'Nuff said'. 10. The 1990's are here...aaaccciiiidddddddd...... The man has made his Bucks. He's got rid of the Charlie habit. The silly bastard has even fallen in lurve....Time to get back on track. No one wants to know. Quietly does it."Jump they say" Bowie at his best...they still aint convinced..."Buddah of suburbia" No one even notices it. It's a gem."Strangers When we Meet" is perfect. 1.Outside...Eno's back and so is the man.The great art LP of that year. Nathan Adler is on the case. No one, I mean NO ONE got near this...Oasis? dont make laugh...This is one of Bowies best 5 LP's........"Thursdays Child"...he's done it again.. I wonder what the likes of Stipe, Gallagher and all those other pretenders will be churning out at 53....... 11. Honourary Mentions "Drive in Saturday" "Rebel Rebel" "John I'm only Dancing" "Loving The Alien" "Cracked Actor" "7 years in Tibet" "Little Wonder" "Bewley Brothers" "Quicksand" "Boys keep Swinging" Time to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #155 *******************************