From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #151 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, May 20 2000 Volume 03 : Number 151 Today's Subjects: ----------------- More about the Wire show from Mr. Bowie [Miles Goosens ] Old Wire / New Wire ["sean bowen" ] RE: questions about the list [Miles Goosens ] Re: In shorter [Carl Archer ] Re: Bowie Takes in Wire in NY [obie ] Re: In shorter ["lucifersam" ] Highbury Tickets [Tim Robinson ] The Chicago Reader Review [george.m.hook@ac.com] RE: questions about the list [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: The Chicago Reader Review [Miles Goosens ] Re: my last comment on...CD storage [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: anorak alert ["tube disaster" ] Re: Old Wire / New Wire ["tube disaster" ] Re: Old Wire / New Wire [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: From David Bowie's online journal ["lucifersam" Subject: More about the Wire show from Mr. Bowie >From owner-idealcopy Fri May 19 04:37:12 2000 Message-ID: <00cf01bfc16d$16919960$2b0828d5@oemcomputer> From: "lucifersam" To: "IdealCopy" Subject: More about the Wire show from Mr. Bowie Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:19:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 A friend of Mine is on Bowienet, she just passed this from Bowies daily Diary... Thought it might be of interest.... Author: sailor Subject: Re: warm-up band? Karma: 6 (+/-) No warm up band. I find that at that size venue, a warm up band generally indicates that the main act isn't going to be doing a particularly fair length show. For instance, when I went to see Wire the other night, the support was Panasonic. I was a bit miffed that Wire only did a 45 min show with a 10 min 'encore' Still, it was great to see them again as I haven't seen them since CBGB years ago. I will do what I do for as long as it's good.OK? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 18:57:18 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: re: Re: Wire Politics >From owner-idealcopy Thu May 18 15:06:32 2000 Message-ID: <-1253463666jsteinmann@clynch.com> Date: 18 May 2000 14:07:13 -0500 Sender: Jack Steinmann From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Re: Wire Politics To: Aaron Mandel CC: , Katherine Pouliot X-Mailer: QuickMail Pro 2.0.4 (Mac) X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Jack Steinmann Well, sure. Take it for granite. Aaron Mandel wrote: >On Thu, 18 May 2000, Katherine Pouliot wrote: > >> For example, "The house not home" the White House for all intensive >> purposes. Similar commentary on the ruling parties, if you >will. > ====================================================== Miles Goosens UNlimited edition R. Stevie Moore CDs now available! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal website http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles "If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing." -- Anatole France ====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:07:01 +0100 From: "sean bowen" Subject: Old Wire / New Wire Hi All, Now Wire have completed their U.S. dates and are due to play some more UK at the Garage next weekend, most of us have had a chance to see them. Had I known before I bought my RFH ticket that they would be playing mainly old material, I wouldn't have gone. That would have been my loss; it was an evening not to miss. One great thing about Wire has always been their ability to surprise with something different and exciting. Well, after a career of resolutely refusing to 'play the old favourites' in concert, playing a set of 95 % old favourites was probably the most 'different' thing they could have done. And it was exciting to hear them played so well, with such great sound quality, and by such a great-looking quartet of old geezers. I got into Wire in late '81; too late to catch them in the 'classic' phase. I assumed they'd broken up, never to re-form. So when I saw them at Oxford '85; their first gig together since D & E, it was more than I could ever have wished for. The set was short, all unfamiliar, and possibly a little rushed and un-rehearsed, but it was unmistakeably Wire. Just one old favourite as a token to the fans would have been nice, but I respected them for making a clean break from the past. After 2 years during which I thought it was probably a one-off, 'The Ideal Copy' LP came as an unexpected bonus. But then, 'A Bell is a Cup' was one of the best records of the '80s, 'Eardrum Buzz' one of the best pop singles in history, 'Manscape' a startlingly original and for me 85 % successful move to a new musical territory, and 'The First Letter' even wilder and more inventive still. 12 years after '154' and still knocking the spots off everything else around. From the discussions on this newsgroup, I get the impression that most people are not as surprised as I was that Wire2000 seem to have made such a dramatic reversal of their old policy of abandoning their previous songs just as us listeners are getting to love them. It seems to split about 80/20 in favour of those who appreciate the 'Greatist Hits' performances, and those who'd prefer to hear brand new material. For me, the problem is personal. The '77 - '79 stuff is lodged in my adolescence; brilliant, but 'nostalgically brilliant', not 'now brilliant' . The '85 -'89 stuff belongs to the period of my early adulthood and failed marriage - more 'relevant' - but locked into a particular part of the past. Whereas the '90 - '91stuff still sounds as relevant to me now as it did then. I'd love to know what went on at the first meetings in '99 to decide what they were going to do for their next great comeback. I'm told that the idea of being their own Tribute Band was a practical one and had much to do with Robert's conditions for joining. If so, then that's great. Wire deserve nothing less than the luxury of being revered and admired by a new generation too young for the late '70s. And I'd love them to bask in the glory of such a big audience as at the RFH, after the injustice of playing the dazzlingly original Electric Ballroom '80 to a few pissed skinheads, or that of 'Eardrum Buzz' NOT being picked up on by some hip Radio 1 DJ and becoming a Top 10 hit single. My only worry is : have they become cynical ? Do such intelligent men, with good reasons to feel embittered, think that we fans are too dumb to appreciate masterpieces of modern audio art such as 'Where's the Deputation ?' or 'It Continues' ? The use of the Pink Flag imagery is just too 'easy'; The T-Shirt and the 'Third Day' CD were extortionate. Enjoy the belated adulation, but don't give up on us... Some feedback I've read here gives cause for optimism; Wire are serious about this, and may well have some new material in a while. 'Art of Persistence' and 'He Knows' are very reassuring that they can at least still compose as a group (even if 'Art...' is a distant descendant of 'Ally in Exile', and at least one of you told me off-line of 'He Knows' that the song 'sucks'). It can't be easy for them now. They're all pushing 50 (or in one case pushed it already), they're hardly ever in the same country, and the impression seems to be that personality clashes are legion and sparks fly. But the fact that when they do get together, they consistently write stuff better than any of the individuals' other projects, is proof that there must be a special chemistry between them. For what it's worth, if I could be an interloper at one of their sessions, I'd say this : "Look, guys, I know some times you want to smash each others heads in, but just remember : You're Wire. You've made some of the most important records in the history of music. And you can do it again. We love you." For years, the music press, and music fans younger than us have been telling us that the best bands of the year were The Smiths, Oasis, Radiohead or Nirvana, and we know they were wrong. If Wire can stick it together and release an hour of music half as good as 'Manscape' or 'The First Letter', then it will have been worth it. Mark, Giluz, John, Jefferey, Kathy, TubeDisaster, and everyone : You back me up on this, don't you ? Sean. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 18:55:11 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: RE: questions about the list >From owner-idealcopy Tue May 16 03:27:40 2000 Message-ID: From: "giluz" To: "IdealCopy" Subject: RE: questions about the list Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:29:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <44.3a293ec.2651e475@aol.com> Importance: Normal > As for lurking, Wire's manager occasionally threatens people with > extermination for bootleg trading. Colin may monitor the list? > The good folk > at WMO have a hot line to what's going on too. > > Mark Colin used to monitor the list but he unsubscribed, a bit after ther RFH gig. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:00:15 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: In shorter I thought that it was ironic that Wire mentioned being influenced by early Devo. I doubt there's many on this list who have followed Rush, but Devo had a heavy effect on Rush as well. Geddy Lee used to wear Devo pins on his strap and the influence can be heard on Signals and Grace Under Pressure. If anybody wants a good laugh they should check out Trevor Rabin's solo albums before he joined Yes...Sounds like Rick Springfield. - -Carl, who is looking for a new band name (suggestions? e-mail me privately...no need to tell everyone) > From: MarkBursa@aol.com > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:43:25 EDT > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: In shorter > > Devo....Still don't get them. Irritatingly quirky to these ears > > Four-letter band names....Good formula usually, but fails when band name ends > in -ush (Bush, Rush, Lush etc). Add Felt to classic British list ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:27:05 -0700 From: obie Subject: Re: Bowie Takes in Wire in NY That's cool! did he stick around after the show? or did he just disappear, i always wonder what those guys do after shows ... george.m.hook@ac.com wrote: > > Wondering what David Bowie's been doing for fun lately? > Well, on Monday (May 15) night he was palling around with > Page Hamilton, the ex-Helmet leader who's been playing guitar > with Bowie on and off for awhile now. The two took in the Wire, > pan sonic, DJ Otefsu (the DJ moniker for Jim Thirwell of Foetus) > show at Irving Plaza in New York. Bowie actually sat right next to > Thirwell's DJ rig in the balcony. - -- ********************** Obie Sanders Systems administrator Spotlife INC obie@spotlife.com ********************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 01:23:27 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: In shorter - ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Archer To: ; Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 1:00 AM Subject: Re: In shorter > I thought that it was ironic that Wire mentioned being influenced by early > Devo. I doubt there's many on this list who have followed Rush, but Devo > had a heavy effect on Rush as well. < strap and the influence can be heard on Signals and Grace Under Pressure. > > If anybody wants a good laugh they should check out Trevor Rabin's solo > albums before he joined Yes...Sounds like Rick Springfield. > > -Carl, who is looking for a new band name (suggestions? e-mail me > privately...no need to tell everyone) > > > From: MarkBursa@aol.com > > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:43:25 EDT > > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > > Subject: In shorter > > > > Devo....Still don't get them. Irritatingly quirky to these ears > > > > Four-letter band names....Good formula usually, but fails when band name ends > > in -ush (Bush, Rush, Lush etc). Add Felt to classic British list > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 01:59:27 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Highbury Tickets Hi, I have two tickets for the Highbury Garage show on Saturday. Due to unexpected events I need to switch to Sunday instead. Ideally I woud like to swap these for two Sunday tickets. Otherwise I am willing to sell the pair for £15 (they cost a tenner each) e-mail personally if you are interested. Tim. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:40:30 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: The Chicago Reader Review The local free newspaper weighed in with its review this week: They loved the concert: Excerpts: "They sounded tighter and looked thinner than I'd expected, and appeared unimpressed by their own reputation. Their set was short, a grinding, shimmering, gorgeous hour, pulled off with a noteworthy lack of synthesized or prerecorded help. They sliced through old and newer songs with equal urgency, shifting gears so fluidly it seemed like they'd never stopped playing, or playing together. Lean but saturated arrangements of the later material, using a handful of old low-tech tricks--playing against delays, synchronized feedback--proved that the sometimes elaborate production of those years really was consistent with Wire's basic minimalist/formalist method." "Highlights included solid, unadorned versions of 154's "40 Versions" and Chairs Missings "Another the Letter" and a fiercely slashing "Advantage in Height" from The Ideal Copy. But the centerpiece was definitely the soaring, hypnotic "Silk Skin Paws" from A Bell Is a Cup ..." "Interestingly, Newman's lyrics were often severely pruned on tunes where they weren't already sparse. While I personally love his acerbic wordplay--especially some of his later occult- and metaphysics-laced abstractions--the editing served to heighten the instrumental subtleties." I just keyed this in for all you out there. For some reason, the review is not available on The Reader's Web site. After reading such raves, I'm feeling like maybe I was a little harsh on Wire in my earlier assessment. I preferred Colin's DJ gig afterward. As I say, I had been hoping they would deviate from the set lists I had been reading in your posts (especially hoping they would have played "the Illinois toolworks" song "Follow the Locust"). Maybe I was just crabby after a day of watching the Cubs win in extra innings, having to stand through Seam, etc. George ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:04:02 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: questions about the list >Colin used to monitor the list but he unsubscribed, a bit after ther RFH >gig. Was it something we said? If we say we're sorry, will he come back? (^_^) Or, is it just that he's really busy right now - you know, being in this "Wire" and all. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:20:40 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: The Chicago Reader Review George wrote: >The local free newspaper weighed in with its review this week: George, thanks for your efforts in bringing this piece to us! By the way, which READER writer did the review? Given the praise for the BELL IS A CUP tracks, it doesn't sound like DeRogatis... later, Miles ====================================================== Miles Goosens UNlimited edition R. Stevie Moore CDs now available! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal website http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles "If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing." -- Anatole France ====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:25:43 EDT From: VoxxJaguar@aol.com Subject: Stereolab/SonicYouth 6/10/00 Sat. June 10th? at The Riviera... At least I think that's the date of the upcoming Syouth/s'lab show.... While in line for the Wire show, I spoke with a bloke from New Zealand who said he didn't enjoy a recent S'Lab show in Australia (and he *is* a fan)...He said it was "all wanky" i think he meant "formless" or "tuneless" maybe. I missed them here in Chi a few months ago and the local critics (the rare two who's opinions I *do* respect-DeRogotis and Kot) didn't care for that show either. I saw them in 95 at DC's 9:30 club and was pleased. But that was Mars Audiac Quintet...I'm one of the few that like the old records better. less bass and marimbas, more guitar. And i do like Sonic Youth....I heard a few tracks of their new record on WNUR the other night...sounded good. So someone join in: Is this upcoming show a must see? df ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:25:28 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: The Chicago Reader Review Doesn't DeRogatis write for one of the dailies (presumably the one Greg Kot doesn't write for), rather than the Reader (which I gather is a weekly)? Mind you, I'm talking completely out of school here ... Dan >George wrote: > >The local free newspaper weighed in with its review this week: > >George, thanks for your efforts in bringing this piece to us! By the way, >which READER writer did the review? Given the praise for the BELL IS A CUP >tracks, it doesn't sound like DeRogatis... > >later, > >Miles > > >====================================================== >Miles Goosens > >UNlimited edition R. Stevie Moore CDs now available! >http://www.rsteviemoore.com > >My personal website >http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles > >"If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still > a stupid thing." > -- Anatole France >====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:51:54 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: the entire CD storage issue In a message dated 5/19/0 7:28:26 AM, Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk writes: >and a pie >chart . . . . or god I'd better shut up now! if i hadn't just been to the bathroom i'd be wetting myself right now! we are a hilarious bunch...with excellent taste in music! - -paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:55:50 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: High Fidelity I happened to get a chance to see the movie the week before it came out, courtesy of a "sneak preview" sponsored by the local commercial alternative station (read the novel a couple of years ago & of course loved it), & remember wondering at the time whether it might not eventually develop into an "audience participation" cult movie for music obsessives, a la Rocky Horror ... Dan > >Yeah, the Central Line moves me to tears sometimes too. > >Sorry. > > > > >"lucifersam" on 19/05/2000 14:19:35 > >To: wiremailorder@ameritech.net, idealcopy@smoe.org >cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) > >Subject: Re: High Fidelity > > > > >I read the book...It had me laughing outloud on the Central line one >minuet, and crying with sadness the next. That book is about ME!!!!! >Especially when the girlfriend leaves and says "It's not your fault, It's >me" >AAAGGGHHHHHH Why do they always say that!!!!!! >Sorry, I'll stop now...The Siam Cat... >----- Original Message ----- >From: webmaster >To: >Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 12:22 PM >Subject: High Fidelity > > >> I think the discourse over the last few days put the nail in the coffin - >> EVERYONE on this list should go see the movie (or read the book) HIGH >> FIDELITY. It's our autobiography! >> >> charles >> shop@wiremailorder.com >> http://wiremailorder.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 00:03:17 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: my last comment on...CD storage i generally file the artists where they began their careers (ie. i have james in my factory records section even though none of the cds are factory releases). and re: wir, that comes at the end of my wire section cuz i file em chronologically too. also, the solo projects get their own sections, which is odd cuz i didn't do that in my vinyl collection. i'm weird. :o) -paul >i'm the guy with the american and >> import cds alphabetized separately, but the american is divided into >"indie" >> and "corporate"... > >my god, i would go batty. what do you do about bands that go from an indie >label to a corporate label and back? is Matador indie most of the time >but >corporate for the years when they had a deal with whoever it was? >(Capitol?) what about US artists whose records were released on british >labels and vice versa? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 22:02:14 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: anorak alert >> >>the other 2 things which would be nice to include would be live versions of >"harry houdini" and "roadrunner" (played in the early gigs 85/86) >> >> >> >>if you'd like a decent quality tape of all the above i'll assist , i have >everything above except a decent live tape of harry houdini. wonder if it'd >all fit on 2 cd's? it'd certainly be well worth having , says he lacking a >cd burner. "undercoatings" maybe? >> >>p (anorak fully zipped up) > >OK ... time to get out my 12/17/85 tape of the Paradiso show in Amsterdam & >discern what songs are on there. A friend sent it to me a looooooong time >ago, & not being bowled over by it at the time -- this would've been my >first exposure to the 2nd-incarnation stuff, as I hadn't yet bought >Snakedrill -- I know I haven't listened to it in well over a decade. > >Dan Turns out, as I half-suspected, that this is the same as the Comeback in Two Halves bootleg, judging from Andrew's (if I'm remembering correctly) site, though as noted I've had it since before that bootleg (or, apparently, the cassette variant) actually appeared. No Harry Houdini or Roadrunner. Nice to have such an early, stripped-of-pop-niceties (though I *love* the eventual studio version) take on Kidney Bingos. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 22:12:41 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Old Wire / New Wire > For what it's worth, if I could be an interloper at one of their >sessions, I'd say this : >"Look, guys, I know some times you want to smash each others heads in, >but just remember : You're Wire. You've made some of the most important >records in the history of music. And you can do it again. We love you." >For years, the music press, and music fans younger than us have been >telling us that the best bands of the year were The Smiths, Oasis, >Radiohead or Nirvana, and we know they were wrong. If Wire can stick it >together and release an hour of music half as good as 'Manscape' or >'The First Letter', then it will have been worth it. > > Mark, Giluz, John, Jefferey, Kathy, TubeDisaster, and everyone : You >back me up on this, don't you ? > > Sean. Well said. I'd attempt your truly impressive eloquence on the subject if I weren't being dragged down by a fever for the 2nd straight night (hope this business of becoming feverish as the day wears on isn't becoming a pattern, as proved to be the case a few weeks ago ... I need to go find one of those self-diagnosis websites) ... Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 00:31:19 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: Old Wire / New Wire In a message dated 5/19/0 8:03:05 PM, sean.j.bowen@ukgateway.net writes: >and everyone : You >back me up on this, don't you ? i certainly hope the guys decide to continue making music together. i love the first letter, i like manscape alot, and on the subject of nostalgia...not one bit of 154 sounds old to me. that album could be released as new today, and i believe that anyone unfamiliar with wire would take it as being brand new. there are songs on the first 2 albums that are still as fresh today as when i first heard them, but listening to either one all the way through does bring on a sense of nostalgia for me too. cheers, paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:32:18 +0100 From: "lucifersam" Subject: Re: From David Bowie's online journal Direct from the horses mouth my friend! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Archer To: lucifersam Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 2:25 AM Subject: Re: From David Bowie's online journal > Whoa. Wait a minute. Is there any truth to that? I was at the show.... > > > From: "lucifersam" > > Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:10:36 +0100 > > To: "IdealCopy" > > Subject: Fw: From David Bowie's online journal > > > > Just testin...again.... > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 5:42 PM > > Subject: From David Bowie's online journal > > > > > > Journal for Tuesday, May 16th 2000 > > > > All was groovy last night at Irving Plaza. Page Hamilton, Coco and I > > went over at around 10. pm to catch one of my fave old bands 'Wire'. > > They were in pretty tremendous form, joined by one of the Janes at the > > end sonic onslaught. Foolishly missed Panasonic, who were opening but > > did catch the Hepcat Jim (Foetus) DJ-ing. Jim is in great shape and > > spinning like a mad thing. > > > > > > "Excuse me, but do English people count as an ethnicity when it comes to > > hate crimes?" -- E. Cartman > > > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #151 *******************************