From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #145 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, May 17 2000 Volume 03 : Number 145 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: nihilism rears its ugly head. ["A. Izenstark" ] Wire in Boston [Sergey Kazachenko ] Re: Devo Liner Notes [Jonathan Land ] rmh ["ELN/09BNV" ] re: Washington show report. [Jack Steinmann ] Re: Unsubscribe [Vince Barnard ] RE: questions about the list ["giluz" ] Re: cranky Boston show review [obie ] Wire on Stage; Size of List [flaherty michael w ] Re: Pansonic Gig [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: Wire, Irving Plaza 5/15/2000 [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Looking for a DRILL [Jorge Punaro ] Re: OT - Pere Ubu's show in Cleveland [Brian Barnett ] RE: opening band gripers ["Andrew Boyko" ] Re: opening band gripers [Brian Barnett ] RE: FW: Americans and Marxism ["giluz" ] Re: Wireviews update - May 2000 [Brian Barnett ] RE: OT - Pere Ubu's show in Cleveland ["giluz" ] RE: Wire in Boston ["giluz" ] Max's radio show ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:22:13 -0400 From: "A. Izenstark" Subject: Re: nihilism rears its ugly head. > Well, I'm aware that the Net per se dates back several decades, but if music > lists & such were proliferating in 1980, it's news to me. (Geez, I was still > into sf fandom back then ... you'd think someone in *that* of all > subcultures would've said something.) I know Joe was playing around on Tymnet years before I ever met him on the internet ten years ago, and I had been using it for only a couple of years at that point. And I know there was quite a bit of overlap, but I think it also helps if you have friends/family working with the technology at MIT at the time... A. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:28:12 -0400 From: Sergey Kazachenko Subject: OT - Pere Ubu's show in Cleveland As you might know, on June 7th Pere Ubu are giving their only US show this year in Cleveland, OH. I am going to drive all the way from Boston. If you live in Boston/Providence or upstate New York (Albany, Buffalo), and would like to attend the show, contact me at bamboo7431@hotmail.com and I will pick you up. Ability and willingness to drive at night significantly increases your chances of being picked up :) Sincerely, Sergey Kazachenko - --- sergey@belmusic.hypermart.net Belarusan Music Source - http://belmusic.hypermart.net Byvajce zdarovy, zhyvice bagata Be healthy, stay wealthy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:25:53 -0400 From: Sergey Kazachenko Subject: Bell Atlantic Jazz Festival is starting in Boston tomorrow: http://www.jazfest.com/2000/schedule/at_a_glance.cfm?location_num=827 On second thought this is not this much of an offtopic, since Sun Ra Arkestra are playing on Sunday. After all, Sun Ra was one of the major influences on early US proto-punk bands (Rocket from the Tombs, Stooges) and on young John Lydon, which lead to punk rock and Wire were supposed to be a punk rock band :) See you on Sunday. Hope unlike Wire, Sun Ra will play for longer than an hour :) - -- Sergey Kazachenko sergey@belmusic.hypermart.net Belarusan Music Source - http://belmusic.hypermart.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:33:20 -0400 From: Sergey Kazachenko Subject: Wire in Boston For some reason my original message didn't show up in the digest... I'll try once again... To make a long story short: They were very good. They weren't great. I showed up at 8PM. By that time the opening band already finished, so judging by others' mails I missed a lot. I didn't really like Roxy. The club didn't seem to have that unique feeling which can be often found in others. Also the "no re-entry" policy felt rather stupid. The RFH CD is in thin paper envelope, and I didn't feel like pogoing thru the show with the CD in my hands, but I couldn't go to my car to drop it there. Luckily, the pocket of my pants was large enough to store the CD but what about all the others? Also I noticed a very funny marketing move: the CD says "1 of 1000", so I guess everyone who buys it feels like he's number 1 :) At exactly 8:30 our friends showed up. The whole setup was rather minimalistic, with a foil (or foil-like) curtain in the back and the whole band dressed in black pants and black T-shirts (Colin had "S.O.H.O." inscribed on his, others' were blank). Bruce stood on the right, almost turning his back to the audience, looking at Robert's drum kit. Seemed like he was chewing bubblegum or something. He really didn't look like part of the show, more like he was thinking about something else during the whole set. Colin was clearly enjoying what he was doing, looked like even if the next moment the band and the audience would disappear, he still would be doing the same thing. Robert's drumming was brilliant, he scored the place *above* Dr.Avalance in my own Drummers Top 5 :) But the real showman was Graham. With his skinheadish look, great backing vocals and the overall involvement, he stole the show... Sound quality was rather poor, especially in the beginning. I didn't know all of the songs, so I would let it to others to post the setlist. Similar to what's on the CD, but more. The first part didn't really rock me, even "Lowdown" didn't feel that great. I guess the songs were too slow. It all changed with the song for which Graham changed his bass to that really cut off short toyish one (I think the song was "Advantage in height", but I might be wrong). The rhythm of his bass coupled with Robert's pounding did the magic. From there nothing could be wrong. People were dancing, everyone was clearly enjoying. My personal highlight was a great thrashy "Another the letter", it felt much more powerful than the version on the RFH CD. 12XU on the encore sounded great, though it felt like there were parts that were reworked just for the sake of rework (same about the RFH version). But the closing "Drill" was brilliant, even that it had no vocals other than the closing line - just an endless ocean of noise and dugga that Graham (he changed the bass again) and Colin created. Anyway, it was a good show, though below my expectations - I guess the expectations were overly high. Sincerely, Sergey Kazachenko - -- sergey@belmusic.hypermart.net Belarusan Music Source - http://belmusic.hypermart.net Byvajce zdarovy, zhyvice bagata Be healthy, stay wealthy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:26:22 -0400 From: Jonathan Land Subject: Re: Devo Liner Notes The question is: who's the more metronomic drummer, Mr. Gotobed, or Mr. Myers? That's a tough call. Jon - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://incomplete.net If it's not here, it's incomplete! jland@incomplete.net Guinea Pig cam available (sometimes) at http://incomplete.net/espicam.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:04:39 -0700 From: "ELN/09BNV" Subject: rmh I would like to obtain the c.d. of the london kick-off concert for the wire tour. Any suggestions ------------------------------ Date: 15 May 2000 17:42:18 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Washington show report. ?? Wire fans to Moms: keep your hands off my guns?? Jack Robert wrote: >there were quite a few people that I spotted from the Wire show in the = opposition >group to million mom march on sunday. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 16:48:28 +0100 From: Vince Barnard Subject: Re: Unsubscribe Dear Wirelist, I'd like to echo Michel Faber's comments today. Much as I have enjoyed onlooking and ocassionally interfering, the list is too cumbersome right now. I have had 142 emails today alone, all from this list. Sorry, but's too much about too little right now. But thanks for the ride. Regards, Vince Barnard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:29:26 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: questions about the list > As for lurking, Wire's manager occasionally threatens people with > extermination for bootleg trading. Colin may monitor the list? > The good folk > at WMO have a hot line to what's going on too. > > Mark Colin used to monitor the list but he unsubscribed, a bit after ther RFH gig. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:17:13 -0700 From: obie Subject: Re: cranky Boston show review Kent , if this is true , you saw a radically different show then I did @the great american music hall in SF! The version of "Drill" they performed was awesome! Kent Lundberg wrote: > > Let me start by stating that I am the biggest Wire (and Lewis) fan, and > have been since I first heard He Said's "Pump" in 1986. I am such a > fanatic that I bought seven tickets to Friday's (sold out?) show in > Boston and took a bunch of my friends, even providing them with mix > tapes of the rumored set list so the performance would be familiar to > them. I would have been happy to watch Graham Lewis read from the phone > book. > > That said, I was a little disappointed in the show. > > Wire played, but they didn't really perform. - -- ********************** Obie Sanders Systems administrator Spotlife INC obie@spotlife.com ********************** ====================================================== Miles Goosens UNlimited edition R. Stevie Moore CDs now available! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal website http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles "If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing." -- Anatole France ====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 20:02:26 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Wire on Stage; Size of List 1. The reason that Wire doesn't jump around on stage and yell out cliched rock slogans is because (1) they're cool, and because (2) they're actually thinking about the music that they're making--not just running through some riffs. If you want a "performance," go to a Stones concert or something. 2. W/ regards to Michel Faber leaving the list, I'm sorry to see him go, but I understand his reason. I suggest that if everyone cuts down on the "past posts" in their messages (sometimes as many as 8 are included w/ a 2 sentence comment) the whole list will become considerably more manageable. Now THERE"S an area where we could use a list cop. (hint, hint) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:46:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: More on Irving Plaza 5/15 show On Tue, 16 May 2000, Max Schmid wrote: > As to the mystery guitar player, I believe I heard the name Poss, who > I read here was in The Band of Susans and has gigged recently with > Bruce Gilbert, so it would make sense. I guess someone will confirm > it eventually. yeah, that is who it was. > At the end of the show, Graham, who was the last to leave the stage, > tried to say something (thank you, maybe?), but the mike was off and > he walked off looking annoyed. if i read his lips right, he tried to say "thank you", realized the mike was off, paused for a moment and then grinned and threw his arms wide, mouthing "good night!" Lewis was, as it turns out, standing right behind me for a chunk of Pansonic's set, with his eyes closed, swaying. i thought they were awful, but i didn't try throwing myself into their music as much as Lewis apparently did. once Wire took the stage, they were a lot better than they had been in Boston. in particular, "He Knows" was great, which makes me optimistic. if these are the only songs from their old repertoire that they can bear to play, they definitely need to move on soon. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:56:47 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: Pansonic Gig hi boys and girls! i haven't read all my mail yet, so i'll post again after i see what has already been said about wire @ irving plaza. here's my take on the opener... In a message dated 5/16/0 4:59:34 AM, Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk writes: > > >How was it? hi chris! well, i'll tell ya, for a couple of guys twiddling knobs...they were pretty intense! they seemed really into what they were doing, layering the sounds, looping and whatnot. at the end, one guy is hitting the mixer while the other one is walking around with his noise generator thing and then he rolls over their equipment table and onto the floor with it! then he threw it onto the table and walked off. i kinda liked them, but i still think that kind of music needs something extra when performed live. i dunno, like maybe a dancer or two (scantily clad wouldn't be a bad idea either), some video or lighting effects, or a guest musician on guitar or bass or horn. - -paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:34:36 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: Wire, Irving Plaza 5/15/2000 In a message dated 5/16/0 11:53:36 AM, Tom.Chao@HARPERCOLLINS.com writes: > > >Who was that extra guitarist who got up with them during "Drill"? yes, it was robert poss, as others have confirmed. i mentioned in a previous email that poss produced the album sustain by tone. he told me after the wire show that he also produced their 3rd album, which should be out soon. he also told me that the gilbert poss stenger cd will be available soon, but we all know that from wmo anyway. drill left me wanting more. i needed the dugga dugga dugga and the drill drill drill. and of course i wanted more of wire at the end of the show too. no end of tour bonus, as someone else put it. when they came out for the encore, i asked colin "what's today?" but all i got was a smile. well at least i got that. i sung the 15th to myself on the drive home... the place was packed. 1,100-1,200 said an irving plaza employee. the crowd went the most nuts for the early material, pink flag, lowdown, another the letter, 12xu. i went the most nuts for lowdown, boiling boy, 40 versions, and what i wasn't expecting to be my favorite of the night...12xu. it was outstanding! better than drill as far as dugga-tude. one thing i never realized was how much colin's guitar would be up front, as it was in lowdown. he's one cool dude. i thought he was really into the show. it was all in the grin ;o} cheers, paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 03:03:48 -0600 From: Jorge Punaro Subject: Looking for a DRILL I´m looking for the next record: 7Stumm79 Drill (7" radio promo) Does anybody knows where to find it? Saludos Jorge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:07:40 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: OT - Pere Ubu's show in Cleveland Sergey, where do you get tickets ? As I am driving from S.F. to Atl. Cleveland might be a good stop (understated). Sergey Kazachenko wrote: > As you might know, on June 7th Pere Ubu are giving their only US show this year > in Cleveland, OH. I am going to drive all the way from Boston. If you live in > Boston/Providence or upstate New York (Albany, Buffalo), and would like to > attend > the show, contact me at bamboo7431@hotmail.com and I will pick you up. > Ability and > willingness to drive at night significantly increases your chances of > being picked up :) > > Sincerely, > > Sergey Kazachenko > --- > sergey@belmusic.hypermart.net > Belarusan Music Source - http://belmusic.hypermart.net > Byvajce zdarovy, zhyvice bagata Be healthy, stay wealthy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 01:12:57 -0400 From: "Andrew Boyko" Subject: RE: opening band gripers > > I caught the pair of dial twiddlers - twaddle. Mildy amusing in Cripes... what's with you people? Seam were terrible; Pan Sonic stank on ice... what a bunch of complainers! I couldn't wait for Wire to start playing in DC, but I still gave Tone a chance (okay, I have two of their albums and I've seen them a few times, so I was predisposed toward them, but still...) Pan Sonic's music delights me for the same reason Wire's does - I've never heard anything like it. It's austere and creepy, because as mechanistic as it sounds, it's so obviously driven by humans. You never need better evidence of a closed mind than the statement "I bet *I* could do *that*." If you can, you're welcome to do so; I'll probably buy it, just like I bought Pan Sonic's astounding records, or five albums' worth of Seam's combination of quiet tension and well-controlled explosion. True, I haven't been waiting for twenty years for a Wire show like this one, but if I had, I might have used some of the time to see if there were any *other* good bands in the world, while waiting. One's got to keep busy with *something*, doesn't one? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:30:09 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: opening band gripers How Booorrrrrrrrrring. Andrew Boyko wrote: > > > I caught the pair of dial twiddlers - twaddle. Mildy amusing in > > Cripes... what's with you people? Seam were terrible; Pan Sonic > stank on ice... what a bunch of complainers! I couldn't wait for > Wire to start playing in DC, but I still gave Tone a chance (okay, > I have two of their albums and I've seen them a few times, so I > was predisposed toward them, but still...) > > Pan Sonic's music delights me for the same reason Wire's does - > I've never heard anything like it. It's austere and creepy, > because as mechanistic as it sounds, it's so obviously driven by humans. > You never need better evidence of a closed mind than the statement > "I bet *I* could do *that*." If you can, you're welcome to do so; > I'll probably buy it, just like I bought Pan Sonic's astounding > records, or five albums' worth of Seam's combination of quiet tension > and well-controlled explosion. > > True, I haven't been waiting for twenty years for a Wire show like > this one, but if I had, I might have used some of the time to see if > there were any *other* good bands in the world, while waiting. > One's got to keep busy with *something*, doesn't one? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:36:51 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: FW: Americans and Marxism I think there are 2 completely different subjects here: One is the connection between music and politics, which is a fascinating subject and relevant to any discussion concerning music, especially to non-commercial leftfield bands like Wire. The other subject is political issues that do not have any direct connection to music, like the 2nd amendment debate. I know that lots of people don't like to discuss politics, especially on mailing lists that are not related to politics. Personally, I enjoyed reading list members opinions about politics - even Ray's (probably because I disagree with most of what he wrote). This list has a tendency to sometimes drift apart from Wire related subjects, and I like it as well (as long as it always comes back to Wire). But I don't understand why political discussions should be kept off list and soccer / baseball / discussions, for example, can remain on it. giluz > > I'm sending this post on to the list, despite its size, in order > to let Ray > defend his good name. I tend to play listcop more so with accessibility > issues (quoting, html content, etc.) than with content issues, as > I enjoy a > good freewheeling discussion as much as the next guy -- probably more so > than the next guy, actually. But might I suggest the time has come to > continue this discussion off-list, as per Ray's fourth paragraph. > > later, > > listowner Miles > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:48:40 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: Wireviews update - May 2000 Colin, what is Mik Gliaisher up to (Comsat's) I'm beginning to think he is the mate for the stage ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:52:20 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: OT - Pere Ubu's show in Cleveland > As you might know, on June 7th Pere Ubu are giving their only US > show this year > in Cleveland, OH. I am going to drive all the way from Boston. If > you live in > Boston/Providence or upstate New York (Albany, Buffalo), and > would like to > attend > the show, contact me at bamboo7431@hotmail.com and I will pick you up. > Ability and > willingness to drive at night significantly increases your chances of > being picked up :) > One show is still more than we've got in the middle-eastern provinces: David Thomas was supposed to appear at a festival here about 2 months ago and cancelled because there was no tickets demand. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:54:32 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Wire in Boston > Also I noticed a very funny marketing move: the CD says "1 of 1000", so I > guess everyone who buys it feels like he's number 1 :) > It just means you have one copy of a thousand - it's not THE number of your copy. It was the same with the 3rd day CD. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:00:43 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Max's radio show I just want to thank Max for playing the RFH CD on his yesterday's excellent radio show. Let us know when you're having any wire-related / other interesting stuff on the show. giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #145 *******************************