From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #139 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, May 14 2000 Volume 03 : Number 139 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: inertia tour ["giluz" ] RE: Americans and Marxism ["giluz" ] RE: BBQ some sacred cows. ["giluz" ] RE: boston show.... ["giluz" ] Re:seam(s) ["MackDaddyD" ] DC show; or why such an awful setlist? [Rob Gronotte ] Re: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? ["tube disaster" ] Re: Irving Plaza [Max Schmid ] RE: bootitup ["giluz" ] more Seam ["D.T. Viecelli" ] XTC "Wasp Star" [Joe Turner ] 9:30 club. [Mike Edwards ] RE: XTC "Wasp Star" [Jorge Punaro ] Re: Seam ["stephen graziano" ] Re: Go4/irving plaza ["stephen graziano" ] Re: Go4/irving plaza ["tube disaster" ] Re: bootitup ["tube disaster" ] Re: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? ["stephen graziano" ] Wire and charts - was Re: Seam ["Laurel G" ] hello [Kathy P ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:38:30 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: inertia tour > > How good is all this? And XTC's new album out the week before.... > So how is the new XTC album? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:37:42 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Americans and Marxism The Clash politics were very much directed towards British youth. I wouldn't expect American youth to understand them at all. giluz > Question - What do you think of the Clash's politics? (Asked of a typical > Long Island teenager) > Answer - Politics? I dunno. What song is it on? > > I love american youth. Stephen G. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:40:19 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: BBQ some sacred cows. Taking the risk of sounding REAL old-fashioned, I think King Crimson's return in the early 80's and the late 90's were far from disappointing. giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of MarkBursa@aol.com > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 12:38 AM > To: dpbailey@worldnet.att.net; idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: BBQ some sacred cows. > > > Dan, > > << Which brings up an interesting subject -- which re-formed bands *have* > turned out strong work? >> > > It wasn't perfect, but Television's 1992 return (after 14 years) > was pretty > good, considering the standards they were bound to be compared with. The > opening track o the Television album, 1880 or so, is right on the > button. And > they were still good live. > > Mark > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:41:59 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: boston show.... Does anyone have any more info about the Brocure CD? Will it be available via PinkFlag.com or WMO? giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of tube disaster > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 10:27 AM > To: Ideal Copy Mailing list > Subject: Re: boston show.... > > > > > > >hi there all.... > >ive been lurking on the list for awhile...i just started > listening to wire > >back this past october when i bought a used copy of chairs missing, and > loved > >it. did anyone notice how hard it is to get pink flag on cd now? > it must be > >out of print in the states, cause i had to go to freakin ebay to get it. > so, > >to get to the point, i am going to the boston show, but i dont > know anyone > >else who is going. outside of this list, i didnt know wire fans existed. > >blah. its probably cause im a bit young (19) and every on this list seems > to > >have known about wire when they were still making records as a group. > anyway, > >i cant wait for the show, does anyone know if they are selling the third > day > >cd or shirt at the show? > > > If memory serves, The Third Day was the "practice" EP sold at the RFH show > ... if it was available last night, I sure didn't see it. They > are selling a > full CD, It's All in the Brochure, with 16 tracks from the RFH show, 12 by > Wire (no new songs, one of which I believe appears on Third Day). > > And yes, the T-shirts are being sold. I'm about 5 pounds away from wearing > mine ... > > Dan > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 07:51:54 -0500 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: Re:seam(s) First off - I enjoyed Seam quite a bit - having been in Chicago for 16 years now, I have heard (well) of them (tho not much recently). They were exceptionately well-received for a support act - with the exception of a few 'wire' out cries between songs which would have been inaudible if they were to tighten up the intersing gaps - and should be expected if not taken to heart. i once went to a concert in central park where ryuichi sakamoto (of ymo and a megastar in japan) played before caetano veloso i went expecting sakamoto to be the headliner and tones of japanese(/americans) to be in attendance. what i didn't realize whas thet there is that veloso has an even more rabid following amongst the brazillian contingent in NYC and they did their best to drive sakamoto from the stage. it *was* seam's lead man (whose name escapes me) who said it would be helpful if he were to distrubute the setlist. All that said, regardless of support/headline issues, I thought Seam had an astounding 30 minute set in the 45-odd minutes they played. not to say 45 minutes is too long - just better to leave 'em wanting more - even as a headliner. in fact - from the noise/pop perspective - and US record sales - it would not surprise me if seam has sold more records but so have *lots* of bands - and many that no*one but their mothers care about today. (i would have previously used AFOS for said examplle, but a recent thread made me aware of the broad diversity of tastes ion the list;) I sincerely believe that had they played said 30 minute set the comments on the list would lean far more to "how the %^&* did I miss these guys before - quick i will buy everything they ever recorded". well - maybe not everyone, but there are a few obsessive types on the list (you know who you are) as to the 7-foot-guy - he kindly kept himself midway between colin and graham for me - there was a 'hipster' couple who drifted in front of me during a moment of distraction - and her hair was too tall , but i managed to peer around anyone besides charles get out to see silo? i was too tired to face another smoke fileed eve and heartilly regret it now __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:07:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Gronotte Subject: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? OK, I have to say that I was extremely disappointed with the show last night. I'm sure the setlist was about the same as what they have been for the other shows, but I haven't really been looking at them and thinking about if they had been playing the songs I liked the best or not. I think the guys still did a decnet job playing and singing, but the setlist could hardly be worse from my perspective. It's like they went out of their way to play their least catchy material or something. If I made a list of the best, say 50 songs songs that Wire has recorded, I'd say they played exactly two of them, Lowdown and 12XU, and even those would not be in my very top. As a matter of fact, I think I will make a list. I would have heard any of the below songs to any of the songs that were played last night (except the two previously mentioned). I could probably come up with more. Ok, probably a few of these they couldn't play in the two guitars, bass and drums format; and I know it is weighted to the first album, but the songs are mostly short, and could be played with the touring instrument format. Why couldn't they have played any of these?? Reuters Ex Lion Tamer Start To Move Straight Line Mr. Suit Strange Fragile Mannequin Champs Dot Dash Sand In My Joints Outdoor Miner I Am The Fly Too Late I Should Have Known Better The 15th Map Ref. 41N 93W Ambitious The Finest Drops Kidney Bingos Eardrum Buzz Torch It Rob Why don't you come up and surf me sometime? --> http://www.patriot.net/users/rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 07:29:18 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? Forgive me for sounding probably even more fractious than usual (I'm awake right now only because I was roused about 4 1/2 hours earlier than I usually get up on a Sunday [since I don't have to go to work till noonish] by a phone call from the friend I mentioned last night [the Yo La Tengo/trip-hop fan], because his car broke down a couple of miles from here & he couldn't afford a tow ... poor sod -- that apparently rules out the planned 2-hour drive down to the cowtown where we both went to college, albeit about 12 years apart, where his girlfriend is due in today after flying in from 2 semesters of college in London) ... Anyway, I'm sorry, but right now "they didn't place my favorite songs" sounds to me like the sort of kvetching one would expect from, at best, a causual fan. They didn't play *my* favorite songs, either (my list would be fairly similar to yours, actually, albeit extended to include many more songs from '86-'90), but who cares? We were hearing, after a fashion, their *essence*, in the sense that they chose those songs for a reason, even if it's apparent only to them. I mean, if ever there was a pop band that made music with themselves rather than their fans (or the DJs, or the record-company executives, etc.) in mind, it's Wire, & expecting that to change because they're playing out for the first time in a decade (more like 13 years, I guess, for Robert) strikes me, to put it lightly, as naive. If they were any different, they wouldn't be Wire, & presumably wouldn't have made all of the more accessible stuff you & I like. Your reaction is precisely the same as mine after seeing Bruce Springsteen here in town a couple of months ago, because I *am* a casual fan at best of his stuff & know mainly the hits, of which he played approximately one (Born to Run, which I've never been esp. impressed by). But his hardcore *fans* were delighted by his set-list, & I knew better than to reveal my shallowness by saying anything. Obviously, though, that's just me. Dan >OK, I have to say that I was extremely disappointed with the show last >night. I'm sure the setlist was about the same as what they have been for >the other shows, but I haven't really been looking at them and thinking >about if they had been playing the songs I liked the best or not. > >I think the guys still did a decnet job playing and singing, but the >setlist could hardly be worse from my perspective. It's like they went >out of their way to play their least catchy material or something. > >If I made a list of the best, say 50 songs songs that Wire has recorded, >I'd say they played exactly two of them, Lowdown and 12XU, and even those >would not be in my very top. > >As a matter of fact, I think I will make a list. I would have heard any >of the below songs to any of the songs that were played last night (except >the two previously mentioned). I could probably come up with more. >Ok, probably a few of these they couldn't play in the two guitars, bass >and drums format; and I know it is weighted to the first album, but the >songs are mostly short, and could be played with the touring instrument >format. > >Why couldn't they have played any of these?? > >Reuters >Ex Lion Tamer >Start To Move >Straight Line >Mr. Suit >Strange >Fragile >Mannequin >Champs >Dot Dash >Sand In My Joints >Outdoor Miner >I Am The Fly >Too Late >I Should Have Known Better >The 15th >Map Ref. 41N 93W >Ambitious >The Finest Drops >Kidney Bingos >Eardrum Buzz >Torch It > >Rob > >Why don't you come up and surf me sometime? --> http://www.patriot.net/users/rob > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:12:06 -0600 From: Jorge Punaro Subject: RE: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? Do you want to make the "A List V2.1"???? If all uf us d the same I´m pretty sure the majority will be dissapointed with the set list for the gigs, I think they made their own "A List V2.1" to do the shows. Saludos Jorge - -----Mensaje original----- De: Rob Gronotte Para: idealcopy@smoe.org Fecha: Domingo, 14 de Mayo de 2000 07:06 a.m. Asunto: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? >OK, I have to say that I was extremely disappointed with the show last >night. I'm sure the setlist was about the same as what they have been for >the other shows, but I haven't really been looking at them and thinking >about if they had been playing the songs I liked the best or not. > >I think the guys still did a decnet job playing and singing, but the >setlist could hardly be worse from my perspective. It's like they went >out of their way to play their least catchy material or something. > >If I made a list of the best, say 50 songs songs that Wire has recorded, >I'd say they played exactly two of them, Lowdown and 12XU, and even those >would not be in my very top. > >As a matter of fact, I think I will make a list. I would have heard any >of the below songs to any of the songs that were played last night (except >the two previously mentioned). I could probably come up with more. >Ok, probably a few of these they couldn't play in the two guitars, bass >and drums format; and I know it is weighted to the first album, but the >songs are mostly short, and could be played with the touring instrument >format. > >Why couldn't they have played any of these?? > >Reuters >Ex Lion Tamer >Start To Move >Straight Line >Mr. Suit >Strange >Fragile >Mannequin >Champs >Dot Dash >Sand In My Joints >Outdoor Miner >I Am The Fly >Too Late >I Should Have Known Better >The 15th >Map Ref. 41N 93W >Ambitious >The Finest Drops >Kidney Bingos >Eardrum Buzz >Torch It > >Rob > >Why don't you come up and surf me sometime? --> http://www.patriot.net/users/rob > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:05:45 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? I think Wire have been very clear in interviews as to why they chose the songs that they did. > From: Rob Gronotte > Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:07:59 -0400 (EDT) > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? > > OK, I have to say that I was extremely disappointed with the show last > night. I'm sure the setlist was about the same as what they have been for > the other shows, but I haven't really been looking at them and thinking > about if they had been playing the songs I liked the best or not. > > I think the guys still did a decnet job playing and singing, but the > setlist could hardly be worse from my perspective. It's like they went > out of their way to play their least catchy material or something. > > If I made a list of the best, say 50 songs songs that Wire has recorded, > I'd say they played exactly two of them, Lowdown and 12XU, and even those > would not be in my very top. > > As a matter of fact, I think I will make a list. I would have heard any > of the below songs to any of the songs that were played last night (except > the two previously mentioned). I could probably come up with more. > Ok, probably a few of these they couldn't play in the two guitars, bass > and drums format; and I know it is weighted to the first album, but the > songs are mostly short, and could be played with the touring instrument > format. > > Why couldn't they have played any of these?? > > Reuters > Ex Lion Tamer > Start To Move > Straight Line > Mr. Suit > Strange > Fragile > Mannequin > Champs > Dot Dash > Sand In My Joints > Outdoor Miner > I Am The Fly > Too Late > I Should Have Known Better > The 15th > Map Ref. 41N 93W > Ambitious > The Finest Drops > Kidney Bingos > Eardrum Buzz > Torch It > > Rob > > Why don't you come up and surf me sometime? --> > http://www.patriot.net/users/rob > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:44:08 -0500 From: "webmaster" Subject: RE: idealcopy-digest V3 #138 >to make that argument, you have an awful lot to learn. I guess Wire can't >be much of a band good since they failed to sell out even a venue as small >as Metro after ten years away. Being an opening act for Wire must be one of the most difficult things an opening band could be. From reading these posts, I could easily arrive at a conclusion that the fans "were only interested in seeing Wire and may have been better served by not having an opening act at all". I myself also fall into this camp. It has _nothing_ to do with the quality - perceived or otherwise - of the Opening Act. It has to do with something more endemic - we're all pushing forty and a night out is an act of faith. The fact that Wire did NOT sell out could be proof not of Wire's quality, but of their age, and their audience's age. Ten years may be too long for a band that was obscure to begin with. This of course is a much more complicated arguement... How many Wire fans stuck around for Silo? I counted one - me. charles / wmo shop@wiremailorder.com http://wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 22:51:26 -0400 From: Max Schmid Subject: Re: Irving Plaza At 04:30 AM 5/14/2000 -0400, paul wrote: >p.s. who will be at irving plaza monday night? i'll be the guy with the >grinning apple on his t-shirt. I'll be the 48 year-old hippie wearing his hair down to his ass, an armband required to buy beer, and a shit-eating grin at being at a Wire show. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:20:45 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: bootitup > > I'm sure long time/hard core fans are well aware of this. Fans of > the early WIRE material would be doing themselves a huge > diservice if they didn't seek out some of the demo and bootleg > material. Not About to Die (boot) and Behind the Curtain (legit) > in particular. There are others, but these two are a > must. > Can anyone explain in more detail what these are about and where can I get them, because I've never heard of neither of them in the provincial middle-east, where I live. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:28:08 -0500 From: "D.T. Viecelli" Subject: more Seam As perceptively noted by several folks, my initial comments about the interaction of Seam and Wire's Metro audience were a necessary but, I believe, applicable generalization. Obviously, I do not dispute anyone's right to render a negative opinion of an artist but was merely drawing attention to a pattern I perceived in the criticisms. For the record, Seam played for 46 minutes and Wire played for 63 minutes that night. It should be pointed out that 45 minutes is the very typical length of an opener's set and, should anyone claim that perhaps Seam should have cut their set down to be in better proportion to Wire's set (a strange concept to be sure), they should know that Seam would have had no idea how long Wire intended to perform. In addition, once the production schedule is set for the evening, it won't change capriciously. In other words, Seam could have quit after 30 minutes and it just would have meant that the gap before Wire was 45 minutes instead of 30 minutes. As for Wire's set length, they chose it for artistic reasons of their own that do not include, as some have speculated, laziness, infirmity, manipulation, disdain, or mean-spiritedness. It is no way surprising that most, if not all, fans would have liked to have heard more and I count myself among them. All I can recommend is that you put your faith in the band's decisions about how to present themselves in performance. After all, who can know Wire better than Gilbert, Gotobed, Lewis, and Newman? Less is certainly sometimes more. Best Regards, David T. Viecelli (Boche Billions) President THE BILLIONS CORPORATION 833 W. Chicago Ave., ste. 101 Chicago, IL 60622-5497 tel: 312-997-9999 fax: 312-997-2287 web: www.billions.com and introducing: BILLIONS AUSTRALIA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:49:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Turner Subject: XTC "Wasp Star" On Sun, 14 May 2000, giluz wrote: > > How good is all this? And XTC's new album out the week before.... > > > So how is the new XTC album? Underwhelming, and this is coming from a long-time XTC fan - I loved "Making Plans for Nigel" as a boy when it came out but didn't know who it was, and was exposed to _Black Sea_ in 11th grade ('83), marking me forever. So, as if "Apple Venus" didn't sound half-finished and half-thought-out enough (for my money anyway), _Wasp Star_ isn't much better. Andy Partridge has definitely developed the "complex adult mature pop song in a Brian Wilsonesque vein" muscle, but now it's the only one he seems to stretch. Admittedly, were I able to write songs like that, I'd wallow in it for a while, too, but still... "You and the Clouds Will Still Be Beautiful" sounds like STING. And, if the two songs he's contributed ("Boarded Up" and "In Another Life") are any indication, Colin Moulding continues to *un*learn how to write good songs (and hasn't since "One of the Millions" from _Oranges and Lemons_). The production seems wrong - clean, so clean you could eat off of it, so clean it's sterile - considering the LP was touted as "the rock songs that didn't make it onto _Apple Venus_". Listen before you buy: http://www.abunai.com/xtc Obligatory Wire content: Um. Uh. XTC were punks in '77 too...? :-) /j ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:18:31 -0400 From: Mike Edwards Subject: 9:30 club. here's a quick report on the Washington, D.C. date: The first three songs were absolute chaos. Colin's vocals too low, Graham fighting with the sound man about turning up his bowel rattling bass louder, lethargic performances over all. After the slow start the boys began to warm to the dated material and the show lit fire in earnest. "The Lowdown" brought the crowd and the performers into the moment and "Advantage in Height" raised the bar even higher. Graham was sullen and angry looking throughout, Bruce appeared as if there were someone off stage pointing a gun at his head and forcing him to play (He frowned at Graham the whole night, probably the result of Graham's insistence on playing his bass at Mach 1 and muddying up the mix), but Colin was as upbeat and happy as I've ever seen him in performance. He seemed determined to connect with the audience and have fun. They played a new song mid set, something about love or other, and it shows promise for the results of the Albini sessions. "Drill" was especially monstrous. The noise level went all the way to eleven as the boys beat their guitars senseless, Graham soloed on a toy guitar, and Colin only sang the line "Could this be a Drill!". Brilliant. Mike - -- Come see the Mike und Pat reader! http://CFT.tripod.com/mikeundpat.html "Drunk and stupid is no way to go through life. Buzzed and well read, now THAT'S something to shoot for." P.S. "Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both." -Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:27:18 -0600 From: Jorge Punaro Subject: RE: XTC "Wasp Star" XTC was my one of my faves since "Drums and Wires" but "Apple Venus" was kind of dissapointing record, so I´m not sure I´ll buy the "Wasp Star" specially after the lines: "the rock songs that didn't make it onto _Apple Venus_". Saludos jorge - -----Mensaje original----- De: Joe Turner Para: IdealCopy Fecha: Domingo, 14 de Mayo de 2000 09:58 a.m. Asunto: XTC "Wasp Star" >On Sun, 14 May 2000, giluz wrote: > >> > How good is all this? And XTC's new album out the week before.... >> > >> So how is the new XTC album? > >Underwhelming, and this is coming from a long-time XTC fan - I loved >"Making Plans for Nigel" as a boy when it came out but didn't know who it >was, and was exposed to _Black Sea_ in 11th grade ('83), marking me >forever. > >So, as if "Apple Venus" didn't sound half-finished and half-thought-out >enough (for my money anyway), _Wasp Star_ isn't much better. > >Andy Partridge has definitely developed the "complex adult mature pop song >in a Brian Wilsonesque vein" muscle, but now it's the only one he seems to >stretch. Admittedly, were I able to write songs like that, I'd wallow in >it for a while, too, but still... "You and the Clouds Will Still Be >Beautiful" sounds like STING. > >And, if the two songs he's contributed ("Boarded Up" and "In Another >Life") are any indication, Colin Moulding continues to *un*learn how to >write good songs (and hasn't since "One of the Millions" from _Oranges and >Lemons_). > >The production seems wrong - clean, so clean you could eat off of it, so >clean it's sterile - considering the LP was touted as "the rock songs that >didn't make it onto _Apple Venus_". > > >Listen before you buy: http://www.abunai.com/xtc > > >Obligatory Wire content: Um. Uh. XTC were punks in '77 too...? :-) > > >/j > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:55:33 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: Seam >From: "D.T. Viecelli" >To: sjgraziano@hotmail.com >CC: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Seam >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:01:40 -0500 > >At 02:49 PM 05/13/2000 -0400, you wrote: > >yeah, yeah, that's all well and good, but Seam have been around for 10 > >years, and if as you say, they are still unknown, what does that say >about > >the history of audience response to them? > >I don't even know how to begin to respond to that one. Leaving aside the >important fact that I stated that Seam were obviously unknown to members of >that specific Wire audience and not people in general, do you assert that >all good bands are popular and that lesser-known bands suffer that fate >solely due to their perceived lack of quality? If you're actually prepared >to make that argument, you have an awful lot to learn. I guess Wire can't >be much of a band good since they failed to sell out even a venue as small >as Metro after ten years away. > > >Best Regards, > >David T. Viecelli (Boche Billions) > >President >THE BILLIONS CORPORATION >833 W. Chicago Ave., ste. 101 >Chicago, IL 60622-5497 >tel: 312-997-9999 >fax: 312-997-2287 >web: www.billions.com > >and introducing: >BILLIONS AUSTRALIA It's ofter impossible to know what other people know - but I am will to share my thinking process on this issue. Wire are going to be know (obviously) to thier fans who are involved in the indie/punk/postppunk/alternative music scene. There will be your 1st generationers (class of 77), second time arounders (class of 85) and newbies - - (90's kids). Class of 77ers (like me) if they didn't stay up to date with new(ish) bands might not have ever heard of Seam (i.e. they're "only" ten years old". 30 somethings who make up the class of 85 and the 90's kids - unless they're alwful narrowminded about what they're will to listen to I think have had plenty of opportunity to be exposed in one way or another to Seam. They are on a reletively well know and well established label. And were playing in their home town for gosh sakes. Just admit that people didn't like them that night - for whatever reasons - and let it go at that - don't blame an audience that showed up to see a band that had been inactive for so long, and arrived with such little fanfare - so they must have been loyal fans of an "unpopular" music - for being narrow minded. And come to think of it. There have been plenty of times when I showed up at a club with no idea who was playing and was either pleasently suprised or impressed and became fans of a band w/o knowing who they were or anything about them. If the Chicago crowd were anything like the one in DC, they were happy and excited about getting to see a loved band and were more than willing to give the openers a shot. Seam didn't cut it for them. Too bad - on paper it seemed like an interesting matchup. Maybe they should "rock out" more:) Now shut up about bad audiences, do your job and get them a bunch of gigs so that these guys are "unknown opening band Seam" anymore. - Steve. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:12:52 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: Go4/irving plaza >From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Go4/irving plaza >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:12:28 EDT > >i think dirty looks opened for gang of 4 the first time i saw them. not >sure, >but go4 were great! > >-paul > >p.s. who will be at irving plaza monday night? i'll be the guy with the >grinning apple on his t-shirt. Oh man, Dirty Looks! Is that a trip down memory lane or what? Weren't they from, like, Staten Island or something? What an inspired double billing. Where was that show? - Steve ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:12:35 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Go4/irving plaza >>From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com >>To: idealcopy@smoe.org >>Subject: Re: Go4/irving plaza >>Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:12:28 EDT >> >>i think dirty looks opened for gang of 4 the first time i saw them. not >>sure, >>but go4 were great! >> >>-paul >> >>p.s. who will be at irving plaza monday night? i'll be the guy with the >>grinning apple on his t-shirt. > >Oh man, Dirty Looks! Is that a trip down memory lane or what? Weren't they >from, like, Staten Island or something? What an inspired double billing. >Where was that show? - Steve After I saw Paul's original post, I found myself sitting here ransacking my memory for who opened for them in Tempe in fall of '82 (or maybe it was spring of '83), until finally giving up. But I just flashed on the answer -- REM. Whatever happened to those guys? (Just kidding, of course. Though for all I care, they could've disappeared about '89.) Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:26:50 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: bootitup - -----Original Message----- From: giluz To: IdealCopy Date: Sunday, May 14, 2000 8:20 AM Subject: RE: bootitup > >> >> I'm sure long time/hard core fans are well aware of this. Fans of >> the early WIRE material would be doing themselves a huge >> diservice if they didn't seek out some of the demo and bootleg >> material. Not About to Die (boot) and Behind the Curtain (legit) >> in particular. There are others, but these two are a >> must. >> > >Can anyone explain in more detail what these are about and where can I get >them, because I've never heard of neither of them in the provincial >middle-east, where I live. >giluz I've never seen or heard any of the bootlegs, but Behind the Curtain came out on EMI in '95 or so & is now out of print. My copy is in a stack of CDs somedamnedwhere, but if memory serves it has something like 25 songs from 4 or 5 demo sessions from '77-'78 for the first 3 albums. Six or so never showed up on any of the studio releases. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:34:26 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy the DC show Rob. I did. Exceedingly. With as large a catalog that Wire has, it's hard to hope for particular songs. I thought "Lowdown" was the single best performance of the night. "12XU" showed that the dugga was in Wire right from the beginning. I was very pleased that they wrote and are playing a new song, the set list called it "He Knows" - it has a repeating chorus/refrain "We're so hypnotised, hypnotised, by your love." I enjoyed the extended jam on "40 Versions". I noted that not once in the show did anyone play anything resembling a solo - all the guitar figures were simple chords - so any melodic movement in songs was strictly in the voices. I thought it was cool that songs from A Bell... sounded so integrated next to early material. I thought it looked like the band were enjoying themselves onstage and enjoyed the audience response. Espcially considering that what, there were maybe 300 people there, in a club that holds 650? Here's the show i remember Pink Flag Silk Skin Paws Boiling Boy Lowdown Advantage In Height He Knows 40 Versions Another the Letter Mercy 12XU Drill I think that's a good selection - Steve. G ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:38:43 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: DC show; or why such an awful setlist? At the DC show, some kids made a little sign that said "Please play "Outdoor Miner" and placed it in front of Colin's foldback speaker. He promptly crumbled it and placed it by his guitar amp. So maybe that was a little prefunctory i thought. But then at encore, someone shouted "Dot Dash" and Colin looked out and with a smile said, "Sorry, we don't do requests" and everyone had a little chuckle - it's Wire after all for gosh sakes. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:53:35 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: FAO Mark - re: manicured noise Hi Laurel, Thanks for the info - according to the singles, they were down to a 4-piece by the time they made a record, with Walsh singing as well as playing guitar. Looks like there is no more material then? I wonder if they did a peel session..... I'll check the book on that. Something in the back of my mind tells me Steve Walsh made a solo record or had a second band later on..... As for the Frantic Elevators, I actually saw them support Echo & the Bunnymen in Liverpool in about July 1980. Some of their songs (Holding back the years is one) became Simply Red hits a bit later. I heckled Hucknall throughout the gig and he graciously heckled back....As a result I didn't begrudge him global megastardom, though I hate the records.... the original SR drummer was in the Durutti Column Mark << Dan already answered the question about the singles - but you asked about the female rhythm section and sax player Stephanie Nuttall played drums, Jody Taylor played bass, Pete Bannister played clarinet and then sax, Steve Walsh played guitar, and Gavin (of the green hair in '77), one of the founders of the band did vocals/lyrics Pete and Jody married and were last heard of living in Rochdale - Stephanie played for a stadium rock band in Argentina in '82 and did session work in the 80s - last heard of Gavin doing journalism in New York - Steve has apparently disappeared off the face of the earth - one of their early guitarists was Jeff Noon, now a noted SF writer The amazing thing to me about this whole thing is that apparently Wire had never heard Manicured Noise play when they agreed to let them support them - and according to Graham the other night, the first time they played with them, they couldn't believe what they heard - I think he was being complimentary - also, at that show it's possible the third band was The Frantic Elevators, fronted by a very young Mick Hucknall (sp?) Laurel >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:53:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Wire apology From Wire: Wire would like to apologise for not coming out to meet, greet and sign in Washington, due to various unforeseen circumstances. Special apologies to those that came some distance to see us. For those that are wondering about "the other noises", since Seattle Wire have been preceeding the set with To Roccoco Rot's "The Ameteur View" followed by varying opening noises including - the Desert Island Disc's theme tune, the dwarves intro from snow white and various of Graham's "field recordings". Craig Wireviews. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:13:13 CDT From: "Laurel G" Subject: Wire and charts - was Re: Seam >On Sat, 13 May 2000, stephen graziano wrote: > > > yeah, yeah, that's all well and good, but Seam have been around for 10 > > years, and if as you say, they are still unknown, what does that say >about > > the history of audience response to them? - Steve G. > then Jeff? wrote: >But popularity is irrelevant to musical quality - as anyone here should >surely know. You don't notice Wire ruling the charts, do you? this is probably due to bad luck more than anything else - 1978 Outdoor Miner - 7" white vinyl - exceptionally good poppy song that could have been a major hit - was provisionally placed in the top 30 of the British charts - before the charts were released there was some alleged misconduct by the record people and/or it's pluggers - and some alleged "irregularities" in the figures coming in from the chart return shops so the British chart people pulled it from the charts Wire were always a well respected band amongst other punk bands - you could always judge a band's respectability by who showed up to see them/who was on their guest list Laurel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:03:27 -0400 From: Kathy P Subject: hello Hi everyone, I'm new to this list. I have recently re-acquainted myself with Wire as they are touring the US, and I have been lucky enough to see them just 2 nights ago at The Roxy in Boston, MA. It was a rare treat! The only sad thing is that Lewis didn't seem to have his usual voice, and didn't sing much. So, I didn't get to hear Ambitious, or The Finest Drops, etc... But, Colin Newman was up to par, and in fact better than some of the live stuff I'm finding on the web now. I'm one of the younger Wire fans, not having heard of them before The Ideal Copy came out. I really liked that album, then I also got A Bell is a Cup... and then IBTABA. One of my uncles and one of my cousins both like a lot of great obscure bands (well, here in the US, Wire definitely fits that description), and they introduced me to Wire back then. After finding out about the recent tour, I returned the favor to them by being very persistent in notifying them about it and inviting them to go with me. I'm finding out now just how prolific all the original members of Wire are in their solo and side projects and it's amazing. I realize that I bought some A.C. Marias stuff years ago, and had no idea that is also a Wire member side project. hmmm... Anyway, the concert initiated me into Wire's earlier works, classic songs like Pink Flag, and Swim, and others I don't know the titles of, and I WANT MORE!! So, here I am. My next goal is to find the first 3 albums if I can and buy them and listen, listen, listen... Glad to be on the list... How is that for happy and smiley? - --------- Katherine kep99@hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #139 *******************************