From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #135 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, May 12 2000 Volume 03 : Number 135 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: taping shows? [Wireviews ] Re: Americans and Marxism [John Roberts ] Re: BBQ some sacred cows. [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Wire at the Metro [John Roberts ] Re: Re: BBQ some sacred cows. [John Roberts ] Re: Americans and Marxism [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re That "Wire" cover [Mark Short ] drillmealoafofpolvobeforeifall [Jim Dingus ] bootitup [Jim Dingus ] Re: Manscape [Wireviews ] Re: Re: BBQ some sacred cows. ["tube disaster" ] Re[2]: Americans and Marxism [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] That Buzzcocks-Goth link in full.... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: Americans and Marxism [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: bootitup [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[3]: BBQ some sacred cows. [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] re:drillmealoafofpolvobeforeifall ["Steven Blum" ] Re[4]: Americans and Marxism [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: bootitup ["tube disaster" ] Re: Re[2]: Americans and Marxism ["tube disaster" ] Re: Re: BBQ some sacred cows. ["tube disaster" ] zounds [John Roberts ] Re: zounds ["tube disaster" ] Re: zounds [Joshua ] Re: zounds ["tube disaster" ] Re: Re[4]: Americans and Marxism [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: zounds [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: zounds [John Roberts ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:30:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Re: taping shows? - --- wrote: > mayeb i am wrong, but aren't board tapes of these > shows supposed to be > available at some point thru WMO or something? The concerts that are deemed good enough may be released at some point in the future via PinkFlag.com (the official Wire site @ http://www.pinkflag.com). It's no secret that a "version" of RFH is due, and I imagine some of the other gigs will eventually follow. Craig. Wireviews. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:39:36 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: Americans and Marxism > We American's would never run the Gang of Four out of the country for their > Marxist ideology. The first amendment to our Constitution covers stuff like > that. Well, it was a tongue in cheek comment. I *do* remember Steven Wells, NME journo, relating the fact that he had a particular stamp on his passport when he entered the US because he'd been a member of the Socialist Workers Party. Remember McCarthy? And its no better over here; we've just had a government kick out of its party someone who is popular enough to be mayor of London but is socialist enough to challenge the current regime's policy for the London underground. > > Sadly, most American's are thoroughly and completely unaware of the > political content of music. If it's got a good beat and you can dance to it, > or if it 'ROCKS' (said with full and complete sarcasm), it might be a big > hit, even if it's just a musical adaptation of 'The Internationale'. Well, I think 'politicial content of music' is a rather vague undefineable thing myself. Take an extreme example; Skrewdriver release records with the most infantile, reactionary racist lyrics imaginable but cover Lynyrd Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama, play what is by definition of its form something historically specific to not only the US, but the black US i.e. rawk n roll. Crass may have politcally progressive lyrics but I would imagine there are a few out there who think that their music is reactionary. > I would like to think that most Americans who do recognize political dogma > in music, i.e. Go4, Billy Bragg, Easterhouse, etc., almost universally > left-wing BTW, are smart enough to ignore it. If anyone I knew got their > political ideas from pop music, I'd have to laugh, then question their > sanity. I must admit that I would not be the same person - vegetarian, doing a PhD on governmentality and reading practices, annoying people on mailing lists - had I not listened to a lot of Crass et al records as a youngster. (And I'm 33 next month.) But as I say this is obviously not the same for anyone who has ever listened to Crass. > I've met a lot of musicians, and believe me the vast majority of them are no > smarter than you or me. Getting anything other than emotional enjoyment Well, you have to ask what is it about music that makes people *expect* pop musicians to change the world or be politically astute.> > Which brings up one of the funniest things in American popular music, Rage > Against the Machine. A band full of well off young college graduates who > never worked a day of 'real work' in their lives have dedicated themselves > to bringing their message of Marxist/Lenninist/Maoist thought to the masses. > Together they can 'Fight the Man'! My guess is that 95 out of 100 Rage > Against the Machine fans couldn't tell you the difference between Communism, > Socialism, and democratic/republican forms of government. I don't know if any of us can any more. Governmentality exists in such an insidious form nowadays. I won't bang on about Foucault on a music list tho. > > We had an intern in our office who, when he wasn't wearing Phish t-shirts > would wear his Rage Against the Machine t-shirt. You know, the one with Che' > on it... He had no idea who Che' was, but he BOUGHT the shirt at Rage > Against the Machine concert, and he paid $50 to get it, so it had to be > cool. He had absolutely no idea about RaTM's political stances... they > 'rocked', and that was enough for him. Well, to return to the Crass example, I remember buying a Campaign For Nuclear Disarmament badge as a youngster because I knew of it s general message i.e. it had something to do with pacificism and I'd seen the logo on the sleeves of crass records. OK, it *was* naive but when a teacher picked me up on it at school and started interrogating me as to my politics - which as I'm older and wiser now I realise was basically ideological bullying - it made me (a) determined to find out precisely what the badge represented and (b) think more about politics etc. Who knows? Your intern might well lead the glorious revolution one day 8-) > Getting back to Go4, I never saw the appeal in any of their music... but I'm > glad that Dave Allen left the band to form Shriekback... They have a > definite appeal for me! The first album and the peel session album are the only ones worth having in my opinion. One of Go4's drummers ended up playing for and being a minder for topless model/pop star (those of you in the States will probably have no context in which to place this person) Samantha Fox. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 06:02:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: BBQ some sacred cows. Dan, << Just keep an eye on the used bins ... I don't know about the 2nd one (assuming that there was one -- I don't quite remember), but Evergreen (from '97) should be pretty findable for cheap. >> The second one is very lush and orchestral - mid-paced, grown-up ballads. Not to my taste I'm afraid. Evergreen is Ok but I don't think I've played it more than twice. The copy to hunt out is one of the originall issue CDs withe the bonus CD of (70s-80s) Peel session stuff, which is essential and worth the full price for the Peel version of Over the Wall alone. Albums to avoid include the Echo and the Bunnymen album from the early '90s with the psychedelic cover, which doesn't have Mac on vocals.... Also usually lurking in the bargain bins is the Electrafixion album, which is as much the Bunnymen as the last album (being just Mac and Will Sargeant). It's a lot harder than the two recent Bunnymen albums but a bit lacking in good songs. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:07:18 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: Wire at the Metro I can remember the last time out and Bruce used to turn a very bright red during the set to the extent that I used to think he'd have a heart attack. At Nottm and RFH gigs he looked more healthy in my opinion. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:17:53 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: Re: BBQ some sacred cows. Mr Tube Disaster! Rudimentary Peni = goth? How dare you put Robert Smith's name in the same sentence as RP? Tut tut tut. Black President off of the first ep *does* sound like Pete Shelley tho. John Roberts On Fri, 12 May 2000, tube disaster wrote: > > > >> Which brings up an interesting subject -- which re-formed bands *have* > >> turned out strong work? Second-incarnation Wire are the most obvious > >> example, for purposes of this list ... I've also expressed extreme > fondness > >> before for the Buzzcocks' '93 comeback LP, Trade Test Transmission, & the > >> Raincoats' return from the dead 2 years later, Looking in the Shadows -- > 2 > >> of the best albums of the '90s. And with the various lineup changes, I > >> suppose that at least 1 of the last 3 Killing Jokes -- Extremities, > >> Pandemonium & Democracy -- counts as well. > > > >Pere Ubu have released two cracking last studio albums. Agree Buzzcocks > >TTT was good - if you edit out the Diggle bits it makes an oustanding > >album. I've not got the lp but saw Vic Goddard doing his new lp on the > >tv live and that sounded like a continuation of his excellent form. Am I > >allowed to mention Rudimentary Peni again? > > Jesus, yes. I think I justified my existence last week when a Buzzcocks > listmember said that my praise of the Peni led him to pick up a copy of > Cacaphony that he chanced across in a shop, which in turn blew him so > totally away that he was desperate to find their earlier stuff (esp. after > he found an MP3 of something from one of the 7"s). Death Church, in > particular, is like the world's greatest goth album played at something like > 38 rpm, & the 2 7"s sound like Robert Smith leading a thrash band ... > utterly brilliant. They're working on a new EP, I know. > > Dan > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 06:42:35 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Americans and Marxism John, << The first album and the peel session album are the only ones worth having in my opinion. >> Oh come on, Solid Gold is pretty bloody good too.... and the History's Bunk 12in that came after is as good as anything they did. That's the cut-off for me - they became very tame the moment Dave Allen left IMO. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:46:06 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re That "Wire" cover tube disaster wrote: > > - > >4. Bruce does not look ill, he looks 54. > > True. Someone -- Jeff? -- had a copy of whatever magazine (The Wire?) has > the band on the front cover, & everyone at the table was taken aback at how > ghastly he looked in the photo ... my first thought was of the mid-'70s > Ernest Borgnine/John Travolta horror movie The Devil's Rain, wherein > people's faces start melting at the end. Upon seeing him at the Metro & then > getting to meet him as they were leaving (infinite thanks, Charles!), > though, I found that he merely looked like a fastidiously intelligent (&, in > person, quite gracious) man in his early '50s -- quite a relief, actually, > as on that magazine cover I swear he looks like he's at death's door. I > think it was the glasses ... I don't think he's wearing them in the photo, & > somehow they provide his visage with some focus, or something like that. > > Dan Bruce looks fairly healthy to me on that Wire cover. Especially as all the others are striking ludicrous poses. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:03:24 -0400 From: Jim Dingus Subject: drillmealoafofpolvobeforeifall Infotainment Scam and The Marshall Suite are pretty strong. Don't completely give up on them yet. >first in line to get tickets for the inertia tour, I don't even care that the Fall's recent records suck, Haha. Easy there big fella. AJ wrote: > >Most Americans are not aware of the political content of ANYTHING... >>except >> for the banal self-serving opinions that spout on talk radio and during >> election years... none of us think anything of waking up in the morning, >> having our mood defined by CNBC, going out for a Starbucks and a Noahs >> Bagel, going to work for The Gap, consuming entertainment at the Sony >> Metreon and then going back to check our investments on ETrade until we >>fall asleep and dream of our upcoming IPO... nothing political there mmm? I disagree and agree. To me the bulk of their innovations are manifested in those first three albums. The 80s stuff was very period concious, but I think a lot of bands suffered from that as well. All those cold synths and drum machines. Post-Drill, I never thought they were really pushing the limits of song structure and tone, etc. >Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Thing is, "newness" is a trap if you allow it to close off any path just >because you've opened it. And frankly, I've never really thought Wire to >be quite as innovative as their reputation might suggest - their late '80s >material, for example, is clearly of that period > Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 00:30:05 -0700 > From: "tube disaster" > Subject: Re: theoldwiththenew > > >>Like Archers of Loaf? In my opinion their sound is similar to > >>cross-breeding Wire with The Replacements. "Strangled By The Stereo > >Wire" > >>particularly comes to mind. > > > >I'm with ya Carl. To me, All the Nations Airports in particular, is very > >reminescent of WIRE. Anyone around here like Polvo? What about Guided by > >Voices? I'm in Richmond, Virginia BTW. Yea, I hate that song Hold on Hope. I"m not overly crazy about Do the Collapse, but the lo-fi stuff...been into 'em for years. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Bob has compeltely sold out. He put's out all of his weird stuff as solo records nowadays. Be Kind to Volunteer Fire Dept. is very mid-period Who-like. Great record. If your into Wire, you need to check out the Archers who were in turn, influenced by Polvo. I think the Archers are great, but Polvo is the shit if your into experimental guitar rock with hooks. >Dan worte: > Archers of Loaf I've been meaning to try out for years (the fact that our > sometimes taste-challenged weekend section editor loves them has not been > much of a motivator). Polvo I've never heard. GBV I started getting into a > few months ago ... nice show they did in Memphis back in November. They > didn't do themselves any favors a couple of nights ago on Conan O'Brien, > though -- Hold on Hope is exactly what I suppose Robert Pollard wants it to > be: a boring ballad to wave cigarette lighters to. > They came to Ark? On the Band of Susans > Agreed. I'm still trying to deal with the fact that I actually saw them here > (Little Rock) about 7 years ago. > I've saw the Fall three times in the 80s. 2 of those shows made me levitate and one (Frenz Experiment tour) left me scratching my head. >& after last night's gig The Fall are probably the only >all-time top favorite of mine that I've never seen. (Well, excluding Joy >Division, who obviously aren't going to be re-forming.) >Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:06:45 -0400 From: Jim Dingus Subject: bootitup I'm sure long time/hard core fans are well aware of this. Fans of the early WIRE material would be doing themselves a huge diservice if they didn't seek out some of the demo and bootleg material. Not About to Die (boot) and Behind the Curtain (legit) in particular. There are others, but these two are a must. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 05:31:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Re: Manscape - --- Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > And also: those who complained that nothing from > _Manscape_ or _The First > Letter_ was played: this was a *Wire* show. Not > playing from those albums > tacitly acknowledges that Gotobed was functionally > out of the picture by > _Manscape_, and that they were de facto Wir at that > point. Robert programmed all of the drum rhythms on the Manscape album, but chose not to tour when it was found that the 'live' drums used up to that point would be missing. The fact is, he was involved in the album, but never played any of it live -- that alone is good enough reason to redo a couple of tracks from it if Wire continue using old material in their current incarnation.. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:05:43 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re: BBQ some sacred cows. >Mr Tube Disaster! > >Rudimentary Peni = goth? How dare you put Robert Smith's name in the same >sentence as RP? Tut tut tut. Black President off of the first ep *does* >sound like Pete Shelley tho. The Robert Smith was completely in reference to the timbre/pitch of Nicky's & his respective voices 20 years ago (mind you, even at this late date I'm a shameless Cure fan ... it's the inny teenybopper in me). As for Rudimentary Peni=goth, I came to that conclusion some years ago & was somewhat gratified last week to come across deathrock.com, which devotes a page to enumerating the common elements between the 2 (dark sound, obsession with death ... mother of god, the lead singer went nuts & had to be institutionalized! they devoted a whole fuckin' album to the life & works of HP Lovecraft! they called their first album *Death Church*!) And oldsters on that list know that I've been playing with the theory of a hybrid sub-subgenre called "anarchogoth" for some time now (cf. The Mob, the 2nd Lost Cherrees 7" & Lack of Knowledge, whose drummer & bassist have of course been Buzzcocks for nearly a decade now, not that the Buzzcocks are even remotely goth of course [though if you slow down You Say You Don't Love Me & switch to a minor key] ...) Dan > >John Roberts > >On Fri, 12 May 2000, tube disaster wrote: > >> >> >> >> Which brings up an interesting subject -- which re-formed bands *have* >> >> turned out strong work? Second-incarnation Wire are the most obvious >> >> example, for purposes of this list ... I've also expressed extreme >> fondness >> >> before for the Buzzcocks' '93 comeback LP, Trade Test Transmission, & the >> >> Raincoats' return from the dead 2 years later, Looking in the Shadows -- >> 2 >> >> of the best albums of the '90s. And with the various lineup changes, I >> >> suppose that at least 1 of the last 3 Killing Jokes -- Extremities, >> >> Pandemonium & Democracy -- counts as well. >> > >> >Pere Ubu have released two cracking last studio albums. Agree Buzzcocks >> >TTT was good - if you edit out the Diggle bits it makes an oustanding >> >album. I've not got the lp but saw Vic Goddard doing his new lp on the >> >tv live and that sounded like a continuation of his excellent form. Am I >> >allowed to mention Rudimentary Peni again? >> >> Jesus, yes. I think I justified my existence last week when a Buzzcocks >> listmember said that my praise of the Peni led him to pick up a copy of >> Cacaphony that he chanced across in a shop, which in turn blew him so >> totally away that he was desperate to find their earlier stuff (esp. after >> he found an MP3 of something from one of the 7"s). Death Church, in >> particular, is like the world's greatest goth album played at something like >> 38 rpm, & the 2 7"s sound like Robert Smith leading a thrash band ... >> utterly brilliant. They're working on a new EP, I know. >> >> Dan >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:11:41 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: drillmealoafofpolvobeforeifall >>Dan worte: > >> Archers of Loaf I've been meaning to try out for years (the fact that our >> sometimes taste-challenged weekend section editor loves them has not been >> much of a motivator). Polvo I've never heard. GBV I started getting into a >> few months ago ... nice show they did in Memphis back in November. They >> didn't do themselves any favors a couple of nights ago on Conan O'Brien, >> though -- Hold on Hope is exactly what I suppose Robert Pollard wants it to >> be: a boring ballad to wave cigarette lighters to. >> > >They came to Ark? Only if the interstate system happened to carry them through the state. I saw them in Memphis, which is right across the Mississippi. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:30:20 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Americans and Marxism >> I would like to think that most Americans who do recognize political dogma >> in music, i.e. Go4, Billy Bragg, Easterhouse, etc., almost universally >> left-wing BTW, are smart enough to ignore it. If anyone I knew got their >> political ideas from pop music, I'd have to laugh, then question their >> sanity. > >I must admit that I would not be the same person - vegetarian, doing a >PhD on governmentality and reading practices, annoying people on mailing >lists - had I not listened to a >lot of Crass et al records as a youngster. (And I'm 33 next month.) But >as I say this is obviously not the same for anyone who has ever listened >to Crass. True, insofar as I'm vegetarian (would be full-out vegan if I could kick the milk chocolate addiction), not doing a PhD on anything, &, uh, annoying people on mailing lists ... >> We had an intern in our office who, when he wasn't wearing Phish t-shirts >> would wear his Rage Against the Machine t-shirt. You know, the one with Che' >> on it... He had no idea who Che' was, but he BOUGHT the shirt at Rage >> Against the Machine concert, and he paid $50 to get it, so it had to be >> cool. He had absolutely no idea about RaTM's political stances... they >> 'rocked', and that was enough for him. > >Well, to return to the Crass example, I remember buying a Campaign For >Nuclear Disarmament badge as a youngster because I knew of it s general >message i.e. it had something to do with pacificism and I'd seen the logo >on the sleeves of crass records. Actually, the CND logo was more likely to have shown up on the sleeves of Conflict records, but of course their House of Man Built 7" came out on Crass ... >> Getting back to Go4, I never saw the appeal in any of their music... but I'm >> glad that Dave Allen left the band to form Shriekback... They have a >> definite appeal for me! > >The first album and the peel session album are the only ones worth having >in my opinion. Someone's already spoken up for Solid Gold, about which I'm very lukewarm, but they esp. cited What We All Want, which is easily worthy of being on Entertainment. Songs of the Free was something of a return to form. Even the first comeback CD, Mall, has a couple of nice songs, though as I've noted before the best thing from those sessions is a non-LP single side. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:36:13 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Americans and Marxism nope , gotta agree with john here. to me solid gold was a big disappointment when released , not a patch on the original. whereas the peel session cd gives some great alternate versions , some even better than "entertainment". true , the post-allen stuff is mostly limp ; they seemed to try and commercialise it but just fell between 2 stools.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Americans and Marxism Author: MIME:MarkBursa@aol.com at INTERNET Date: 12/05/2000 15:14 John, << The first album and the peel session album are the only ones worth having in my opinion. >> Oh come on, Solid Gold is pretty bloody good too.... and the History's Bunk 12in that came after is as good as anything they did. That's the cut-off for me - they became very tame the moment Dave Allen left IMO. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:50:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: That Buzzcocks-Goth link in full.... Dan << not that the Buzzcocks are even remotely goth of course >> ...is the Invisible Girls, featuring John Maher on drums and ....Wayne Hussey on guitar (pre-Mission). Maybe Hannett gave him some baaad acid.... Pete Frame ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:55:20 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Americans and Marxism Paul, << nope , gotta agree with john here. to me solid gold was a big disappointment when released , not a patch on the original. whereas the peel session cd gives some great alternate versions , some even better than "entertainment". true , the post-allen stuff is mostly limp ; they seemed to try and commercialise it but just fell between 2 stools.p >> OK, Solid Gold wasn't as goodas Entertainment when released - but it didn't disappoint, and it's aged very well. Also they were touring it when I saw the Go4 the first two times and the songs were fantastic live. they opened with 'What we all want' - and 'Paralysed' was particularly good, with Jon King whacking a table with an iron bar ....(nicked by Stipe when REM did 'World Leader Pretend' - he owned up to it) Phenomenal tour - support was Pere Ubu and Delta 5. Saw the post-Allen line up just months later and the fire had gone out. I've rarely been so disappointed with a band. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:54:46 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: bootitup absolutely. i just (finally) got my hands on a copy of NA2D via ebay , not exactly cheap ($32) but worth every penny. 2 other copies have gone in the last 3 weeks , both for $71 which is a little pricey..... i guess if more copies come up they're unlikely to go for this much , presumably there is a strict limit to the number of people prepared to go that high. and presumably prices like this could flush out a few more copies? so all i need now is "come back in 2 halves" , nobody ever seems to sell that.... p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: bootitup Author: MIME:jdingus@cisco.com at INTERNET Date: 12/05/2000 15:27 I'm sure long time/hard core fans are well aware of this. Fans of the early WIRE material would be doing themselves a huge diservice if they didn't seek out some of the demo and bootleg material. Not About to Die (boot) and Behind the Curtain (legit) in particular. There are others, but these two are a must. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:13:24 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[3]: BBQ some sacred cows. And oldsters on that list know that I've been playing with the theory of a hybrid sub-subgenre called "anarchogoth" for some time now (cf. The Mob, the 2nd Lost Cherrees 7" & Lack of Knowledge, how about zounds? i loved the mob , now there were some guys who put some politics into it...... p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:28:10 PDT From: "Steven Blum" Subject: re:drillmealoafofpolvobeforeifall >>Dan worte: > >>Archers of Loaf I've been meaning to try out for years (the fact that our >>sometimes taste-challenged weekend section editor loves them has not been >>much of a motivator). Polvo I've never heard. GBV I started getting into a >>few months ago ... nice show they did in Memphis back in November. They >>didn't do themselves any favors a couple of nights ago on Conan O'Brien, >>though -- Hold on Hope is exactly what I suppose Robert Pollard wants it to >>be: a boring ballad to wave cigarette lighters to. >> > >They came to Ark? I never bought any Guided By Voices albums but I sam them live last fall. The only semi-remarkable thing about them was that the lead singer choked down about 9 beers without ever leaving the stage to relieve himself. He must have a sturdy prostate. But anyways, that seems to sum up his seemingly prolific writing ability...he retains too much piss. By the way, I have two tickets for the Wire Show at Irving Plaza, NYC on May 15 that I can't use... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:31:19 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: Americans and Marxism and 'Paralysed' was particularly good, with Jon King whacking a table with an iron bar ....(nicked by Stipe when REM did 'World Leader Pretend' - he owned up to it) >>>>> i thought that one was "he'd send in the army" - i remember them doing it on ogwt. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:27:28 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: bootitup >absolutely. i just (finally) got my hands on a copy of NA2D via ebay , not exactly cheap ($32) but worth every penny. 2 other copies have gone in the last 3 weeks , both for $71 which is a little pricey..... i guess if more copies come up they're unlikely to go for this much , presumably there is a strict limit to the number of people prepared to go that high. and presumably prices like this could flush out a few more copies? Presumably so on all of the above, but then again I've been waiting for several weeks now for the Screamers bootleg LP to go for a decent price. I got my copy (it arrived in the mail just a couple of days ago) for $20 plus shipping after losing out in the bidding but being contacted by the seller to tell me that he had another copy & would let me have it for my high bid. Since then, a mate of mine in Scotland has asked me to keep an eye out for one, since most of the sellers aren't willing to ship overseas, & I've seen it go for something like $41 & $37. It hasn't shown up in at least a week. *sigh* Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:30:35 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Americans and Marxism I've posted before that Solid Gold was indeed an immense letdown for me -- even moreso because I bought it on the same day as 3 *other* highly anticipated (by me) LPs that proved to be gigantic disappointments compared to their immediate predecessors -- PiL's Flowers of Romance, SLF's Go For It &, uh, the Spizzles' Spikey Dream Flowers. Truly a dark day, musically, though at least I'd been cushioned for such crushing blows a few months before when I put on the 2nd disc of London Calling ... Dan >Paul, > ><< nope , gotta agree with john here. to me solid gold was a big >disappointment when released , not a patch on the original. whereas the peel >session cd gives some great alternate versions , some even better than >"entertainment". true , the post-allen stuff is mostly limp ; they seemed to >try and commercialise it but just fell between 2 stools.p >> > >OK, Solid Gold wasn't as goodas Entertainment when released - but it didn't >disappoint, and it's aged very well. Also they were touring it when I saw the >Go4 the first two times and the songs were fantastic live. they opened with >'What we all want' - and 'Paralysed' was particularly good, with Jon King >whacking a table with an iron bar ....(nicked by Stipe when REM did 'World >Leader Pretend' - he owned up to it) > >Phenomenal tour - support was Pere Ubu and Delta 5. > >Saw the post-Allen line up just months later and the fire had gone out. I've >rarely been so disappointed with a band. > >Mark > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:37:01 GMT From: pshaw@cave.net Subject: Hardcore punk I was hoping someone on the list could help...I am trying to find out what bands did a couple of songs in the 80's: One is called, I believe, "Baby Let's Play God". The other one has a chorus of "dead centre". Any info greatly appreciated! Liz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:48:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Turner Subject: Re: Hardcore punk On Fri, 12 May 2000 pshaw@cave.net wrote: > I was hoping someone on the list could help...I am trying to find out > what bands did a couple of songs in the 80's: One is called, I > believe, "Baby Let's Play God". A quick web search turns up the "Big Boys"...? /j ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:55:10 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re: BBQ some sacred cows. >> The Robert Smith was completely in reference to the timbre/pitch of Nicky's >> & his respective voices 20 years ago (mind you, even at this late date I'm a >> shameless Cure fan ... it's the inny teenybopper in me). Geez. Make that *inner* teenybopper ... I have no clue why I suddenly started discoursing on navel types -- something to do with typing it immediately after getting up from maybe 4 hours of sleep, tops. As for Rudimentary >> Peni=goth, I came to that conclusion some years ago & was somewhat gratified >> last week to come across deathrock.com, which devotes a page to enumerating >> the common elements between the 2 (dark sound, obsession with death ... >> mother of god, the lead singer went nuts & had to be institutionalized! they >> devoted a whole fuckin' album to the life & works of HP Lovecraft! they >> called their first album *Death Church*!) And oldsters on that list know >> that I've been playing with the theory of a hybrid sub-subgenre called >> "anarchogoth" for some time now (cf. The Mob, the 2nd Lost Cherrees 7" & >> Lack of Knowledge, whose drummer & bassist have of course been Buzzcocks for >> nearly a decade now, not that the Buzzcocks are even remotely goth of course >> [though if you slow down You Say You Don't Love Me & switch to a minor key] >> ...) > >Tube Disaster > >For the record, I used to be a massive Bauhaus, Killing Joke and Lords of >the New Church fan. At the same time as Crass, Flux, Peni etc. No, I >don't know why either. Must admit I never got into the Cure tho. Don't >mind the singles but that's about it. Yes, the Mob were excellent. Mirror >Breaks is one of my alltime faves. Back during that time I was getting into not only all of the above (well, in point of fact I didn't pay any attention to the Lords till a few years later) but also straight-up New Wave, electrofunk & early rap, not to mention trad punk & early hardcore (just before it turned generic). I've mentioned before, I know, driving 2 hours down to Tucson to see Minor Threat because the next (or maybe previous) night their Phoenix gig conflicted with Prince's arena show, which I wasn't about to miss. I've long resisted the idea (usually expressed by people of roughly my age group in decrying anything done after the mid-'80s) of any particular era's music being vastly & innately superior to any other era's, but I have to say that those were great days to be a kid (I turned 18 in '77). Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:00:31 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Americans and Marxism > >> I would like to think that most Americans who do recognize political dogma >> in music, i.e. Go4, Billy Bragg, Easterhouse, etc., almost universally >> left-wing BTW, are smart enough to ignore it. If anyone I knew got their >> political ideas from pop music, I'd have to laugh, then question their >> sanity. > >I must admit that I would not be the same person - vegetarian, doing a >PhD on governmentality and reading practices, annoying people on mailing >lists - had I not listened to a >lot of Crass et al records as a youngster. (And I'm 33 next month.) But >as I say this is obviously not the same for anyone who has ever listened >to Crass. Whereas I'm old enough (7 1/2 years ahead of you) to have gotten into punk in the first place because of a prior interest in anarchism. It seems there was some scandal-mongering band overseas with a song called Anarchy in the UK ... So I can't really say that Crass had anything to do with shaping any of my values or viewpoints -- *reaffirming* them, maybe, which isn't such a bad thing. Had I been a kid in my early teens at the time, who knows? Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:15:12 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: zounds Curse of Zounds is a cracking album. You can get it on CD now from Rugger Bugger records and it includes *all* the singles too inc the Cant Chear Karma ep and the rare live ep La Vache... John Roberts ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:12:36 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: zounds And for us Amerikkkans, it's even available domestically on Broken Rekids, as is the Mob discography release, Thatcher on Acid's first 2 & a Political Asylum retrospective. An Omege Tribe retrospective has been promised for a couple of years now ... Dan >Curse of Zounds is a cracking album. You can get it on CD now from Rugger >Bugger records and it includes *all* the singles too inc the Cant Chear >Karma ep and the rare live ep La Vache... > > >John Roberts > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:19:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Joshua Subject: Re: zounds On Fri, 12 May 2000, John Roberts wrote: > Curse of Zounds is a cracking album. You can get it on CD now from Rugger > Bugger records and it includes *all* the singles too inc the Cant Chear > Karma ep and the rare live ep La Vache... What band is this? Describe. - -Joshua ___ ___ http://www.swingpad.com (Digital Art and Artisanship) - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:25:06 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: zounds >On Fri, 12 May 2000, John Roberts wrote: > >> Curse of Zounds is a cracking album. You can get it on CD now from Rugger >> Bugger records and it includes *all* the singles too inc the Cant Chear >> Karma ep and the rare live ep La Vache... > >What band is this? Describe. > >-Joshua The band's name was Zounds. Second-generation anarchopunk. Sort of a postpunkish take on the genre, straying over a bit later into pure pop (More Trouble is an *amazing* example of that). A couple of 'em later formed The Mob &, after that, Blyth Power, who are still around & releasing the occasional album, though unfortunately I've been unable to scare up anything since Paradise Razed. Its (I think) immediate predecessor, Alnwick & Tyne, is one of my favorite albums of the '90s. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:31:37 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: Americans and Marxism Paul, >>>> i thought that one was "he'd send in the army" - i remember them doing it on ogwt. p >> They didn't play that one when I saw them - maybe he'd used that trick before. It was definitely paralysed. At one point the track stopped and there was just the iron bar...then Gill kicked in again with demented guitar played using a beer can as a slide...fucking brilliant...... Also one of the loudest gigs I've ever been to. Only the Jam were louder that I can remember. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:38:19 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: zounds John, << You can get it on CD now from Rugger Bugger records >> Brilliant name for a record shop....for the benefit of our American chums, 'Rugger bugger' is a derisory term applied to beer-swilling, penis-obsessed musclebound tossers who play the quite appalling game of Rugby (like American football without the padding and 10 times the violence). Ibelieve the term 'jocks' is not a million miles away from what I'm talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:40:22 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: zounds OK. One of the first non crass releases on crass records. Sort of levellers-ish but really mean it maaaan. Tuneful stuff but not so folky. All but the first single and the last live ep on Rough trade. Erm...I'm not really selling em am I? Let's say a folky version of Go4 - that should do it. The drummer went on to be the singer in Blyth Power if that means anything to anyone but Zounds not as folky as BP. John Roberts ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #135 *******************************