From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #131 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, May 11 2000 Volume 03 : Number 131 Today's Subjects: ----------------- taping shows? [Rob Gronotte ] RE: Americans and Marxism ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: inertia tour ["Stephen Jackson" ] Wire at the Metro [flaherty michael w ] Re: taping shows? ["" ] Re: Re[3]: BBQ some sacred diggles. [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Wire in Boston tomorrow... ["A. Izenstark" ] Re: erasure remix [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: BBQ some sacred cows. [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: re-formed [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #123 (vaious replies) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Americans and Marxism ["A.J. Wells" ] Re: Re[3]: BBQ some sacred cows. [MarkBursa@aol.com] The Chicago Metro Show [george.m.hook@ac.com] Re: inertiaecetera [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Wire at the Metro ["A.J. Wells" ] Re: Wire in Chicago last night [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: inertiaecetera ["A.J. Wells" ] Re: Need to sell my Wire 7"ers. [BillyD ] Re: Wire's principle in music. [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #127 [KB305@aol.com] Re: Americans and Marxism [Brian Barnett ] RE: Wire in Boston tomorrow... ["Moshe Imel" ] Re: Americans and Marxism ["tube disaster" ] Re: inertia tour ["tube disaster" ] Re: inertia tour ["tube disaster" ] Wire in Chicago (Front Row) ["Jeff Chenault" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:57:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Gronotte Subject: taping shows? Has anyone taped any of this tour or plans to? Does anyone know if it is offically allowed? I thought I once saw a post on here from a semi-offical person saying taping for personal use was going to be allowed, but I didn't see any elaboration. Any suggestions on who to talk to for permission? The venue in DC are real sticklers about not allowing taping unless everyone says it is ok... Rob Why don't you come up and surf me sometime? --> http://www.patriot.net/users/rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:03:03 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: Americans and Marxism I love american youth. Stephen G. I'd be careful about that... depending upon the laws in different states, you just might get arrested for statutory rape..... :) Ray ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:05:50 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: inertia tour Alyce's earlier comments, and the Onion interview, got me thinking. Hasn't this crept up on us? One minute I'm subscribed to a list discussing a band that has been effectively dead for 10 years, and who I haven't seen live since 1990 and then suddenly I'm at the RFH hearing 'Lowdown' live for the first time in my life (I couldn't make it to the Roxy as I had Primary school to attend) and I see them again on May 28th, the day after my 32nd birthday. They might record again. How good is all this? And XTC's new album out the week before.... No point to any of this, I'm just excited.... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'll leave graffiti where you've never been kissed. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:32:05 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Wire at the Metro Some comments: 1. I've been going to rock concerts for over 25 years. This is one of best I have EVER seen--completely blows away the 80s Wire concerts I saw, by the way. My wife always "liked" Wire. This morning she was going through Kevin's book. Quote: "Best concert I've seen in Chicago" (we've been here 6 years). 2. While I was waiting for the doors to open, Colin and Robert came out. Robert intentionally avoided the crowd; Colin didn't, so I smiled and silently waved (pretty sure I'm the only one who recognized him) and he smiled and said "Hi." Robert was giving him a "no, let's go" kind of look, and when Graham and some others (no Bruce) came out they immediately took off--I assume to eat dinner. 3. Wire is not just running through old songs. They are exploring their musical relationship through a common vocabulary. I can't wait to see where it leads. The instrumental breaks showed me that the flame is still there. But then, I love their 90s solo work. 4. Bruce does not look ill, he looks 54. His playing, especially the intros and exits to the slower songs, was incredible. He should forget how to play the guitar more often. 5. Does anyone know what the synth intro that was playing as they entered is? 6. Sorry I didn't make it to the Gingerman. We saw the line forming and opted for good seats. Like many American Wire fans, I bought the first 3 albums and the singles when they were brand new, but never heard them play any of it live. Nostolgic? Sure. But if that's all it was, I wouldn't be this happy. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:42:23 PDT From: "" Subject: Re: taping shows? i am looking for tapes of the tour as well, especially s.f. fillmore aud. and boston dates. have many cool trades... mayeb i am wrong, but aren't board tapes of these shows supposed to be available at some point thru WMO or something? j_manniello@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:34:14 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[3]: BBQ some sacred diggles. In a message dated 5/11/0 7:34:34 AM, jarobert@dmu.ac.uk writes: >editing out steve diggle is always a sound move. his 3 tracks on the 3rd >album (tension) are so bad however, "sitting round at home" is pure and simple brilliance, one of my fave buzzcocks songs...and the only one my band covered. - -paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:34:13 -0400 From: "A. Izenstark" Subject: Wire in Boston tomorrow... There was such excitement over a pre-show get-together in Chicago that I'm somewhat surprised that no one's said a word about any sort of get-together before/at the Boston show. I'm not able to propose or make any pre-show rendezvous, but are we going to remain anonymous to each other tomorrow night (well, anonymous to those who haven't already met us yet)? The Bostonian in me says "Remain anonymous!" while the Chicagoan in me would like to be social. Any suggestions? Amanda who is wondering if the guy who placed a personal ad in the Phoenix a year ago or so describing himself as being a Wire fan and having a pet rabbit will be at tomorrow's show... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:36:15 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: erasure remix >Thanks Paul - what is the title of the track and what is it on the b >side of, please? > From the discography section of (A)ndrew's Wire page: http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty/wire/ Erasure, Fingers & Thumbs (Cold Summer's Day) 5" (Mute) November 1995 [CDMUTE 178] UK Figures In Crumbs Notes: Collaboration with Erasure. Without the HTML formatting, it's hard to tell, but the name of the single is Fingers & Thumbs (Cold Summer's Day) and the name of the Wir remix is Figures in Crumbs. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:38:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: BBQ some sacred cows. Dan, << Which brings up an interesting subject -- which re-formed bands *have* turned out strong work? >> It wasn't perfect, but Television's 1992 return (after 14 years) was pretty good, considering the standards they were bound to be compared with. The opening track o the Television album, 1880 or so, is right on the button. And they were still good live. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:45:55 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: re-formed Jack, << Best 'comeback' albums I can think of are the Comsat Angels' "My Minds Eye" and then "The Glamour." >> They weren't really comeback albums... the Comsats never really broke up; they were just plagued with lawsuits/record company problms etc. At one point they changed their name to Dream Command and made an album which is by all reports terrible, before going back to basics - with the above results. My Mind's Eye is OK - the Glamour is unreasonably good... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:11:42 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #123 (vaious replies) AJ << Yes I would second the opinion that the original version of Temptation gets very close to what was best about the band, and defines a point in the bands evolution that was crucial... it caught them at a time in which they were mired in the Curtis thing and there was no apparent way out... the hopefulness that Temptation portrayed when it came out was truly revolutionary at the time, even though thats hard to believe now... Bernard decided that he didnt really have anything to say, and so he said that, and that was the turning point for the band... and the fragile percolation of the synths on that original version still have never been bettered by the band in terms of emotional impact... >> It's a wonderful record, and was the turning point for the band. It was the point when Barney found his singing voice, almost as a consequence of deciding not to try and write lyics like Ian Curtis. A record of immense resonance for me to this day..... Of course, you need the 7inch version - the 12inch starts where the 7in finishes.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:14:46 -0400 From: "A.J. Wells" Subject: Re: Americans and Marxism Most Americans are not aware of the political content of ANYTHING... except for the banal self-serving opinions that spout on talk radio and during election years... none of us think anything of waking up in the morning, having our mood defined by CNBC, going out for a Starbucks and a Noahs Bagel, going to work for The Gap, consuming entertainment at the Sony Metreon and then going back to check our investments on ETrade until we fall asleep and dream of our upcoming IPO... nothing political there mmm? Aj - -----Original Message----- From: Ciscon, Ray To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 2:20 PM Subject: Americans and Marxism >We American's would never run the Gang of Four out of the country for their >Marxist ideology. The first amendment to our Constitution covers stuff like >that. > >Sadly, most American's are thoroughly and completely unaware of the >political content of music. If it's got a good beat and you can dance to it, >or if it 'ROCKS' (said with full and complete sarcasm), it might be a big >hit, even if it's just a musical adaptation of 'The Internationale'. > >I would like to think that most Americans who do recognize political dogma >in music, i.e. Go4, Billy Bragg, Easterhouse, etc., almost universally >left-wing BTW, are smart enough to ignore it. If anyone I knew got their >political ideas from pop music, I'd have to laugh, then question their >sanity. > >I've met a lot of musicians, and believe me the vast majority of them are no >smarter than you or me. Getting anything other than emotional enjoyment >(from happy to sad) from music is a sign of an impending > >Which brings up one of the funniest things in American popular music, Rage >Against the Machine. A band full of well off young college graduates who >never worked a day of 'real work' in their lives have dedicated themselves >to bringing their message of Marxist/Lenninist/Maoist thought to the masses. >Together they can 'Fight the Man'! My guess is that 95 out of 100 Rage >Against the Machine fans couldn't tell you the difference between Communism, >Socialism, and democratic/republican forms of government. > >We had an intern in our office who, when he wasn't wearing Phish t-shirts >would wear his Rage Against the Machine t-shirt. You know, the one with Che' >on it... He had no idea who Che' was, but he BOUGHT the shirt at Rage >Against the Machine concert, and he paid $50 to get it, so it had to be >cool. He had absolutely no idea about RaTM's political stances... they >'rocked', and that was enough for him. > >Getting back to Go4, I never saw the appeal in any of their music... but I'm >glad that Dave Allen left the band to form Shriekback... They have a >definite appeal for me! > >Cheers, > >Ray ( I don't get my ideas about religion from Sinead O'Connor either) >Ciscon >Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager >Comark, Inc. > >In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: >The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 >** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. >** > > -----Original Message----- >From: John Roberts [mailto:jarobert@dmu.ac.uk] >Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:34 AM >To: A.J. Wells >Cc: Alyce Ornella; idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: theoldwiththenew > >> I wish we would see some more from the Gang Of Four... their view of the >> world as a disorienting forest of images in which ones hopes and dreams >are >> used to hold the soul captive in the Market Of The Senses holds far more >> true today than it did when they were in their heyday... but Gill/King >> havent seemed to be able to tap into that thing in their recent records >> including Shrikwrapped and Mall... I think they might be a bit too old to >be >> able to critique modern culture at this point... but there is still NO >sound >> in rock like Andy Gills guitar and probably will never be... I think I >would >> be less likely to want to see the GOF live than Wire, because their work >was >> sort of tied to that time and there is an element of protest that doesnt >age >> well... but I would give it a go see... > >What is it with Americans and Gang of Four? As devout Marxists I'd have >thought you'd have had them run out of the country! 8-) >Totally agree with the above: tho there protest doth seem a little dated >you can't help finding At Home He Feels Like A Tourist, their homage to >alienation, ironically comforting (does that make sense?). >Try thinking Steve Albini's guitar style without the above Go4 track. its >impossible. Now, can anyone explain to me just how gill got to produce >RHChilli Peppers early album? RHCPs are not what I would call politically >progressive - wiping your penis on a female journos face doesn't quite sit >with maoism somehow. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:19:14 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[3]: BBQ some sacred cows. John, << Paul Cook and Edwyn Collins...surely the first time that pair have appeared on stage together?> >> They're big mates, and I saw Cook play in Edwyn Collins' band in the late '80s. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:22:42 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: The Chicago Metro Show Pretty good, I thought, but not transcendent. I walked away feeling satisfied, but not inspired. First of all, I hated the opening band, Seam. The "seamed" to go on forever, with their limp Sonic Youth sound. It was mush. As for Wire, I had been hoping for some deviation from the set list I have been following on this subscriber line. That didn't happen. So maybe if I would have seen the show fresh, I would have felt more satisfied. That said, I had a good time. I really like the Gotobed-Lewis rhythm section. But the show did not feel too spontaneous to me (like, thanks Chicago, and we'd like to do "I Am the Fly," for you guys, etc.). Sorry I missed out on the t-shirt and CD, too. Now Colin Newman's DJ stint in The Smart bar after the show was a cracking good set. Before Colin showed up, the house djs had been playing your basic James Brown/Funk mix that was fairly danceable. But once Colin set up his groove, the bass kicked in, the floor shook, and let the party begin! Great waves of Euro dub bass/drum synthesizer pulsations. And there was Colin in the DJ Booth, looking like Gary Oldman in The Professional in his crafty sly sinister mode. The best moment was when he segued into what sounded like a recent mix of an old Hawkwind song (and I didn't get the name of the song) that broke apart the dance pulse and rocked out! He actually should have mixed in some more rock choices (I know he played a Silo cut, and maybe selections from the Swim catalog), but that is a minor quibble. I was a bit surprised, given the mild moods of some of his solo work. And, I got the great man's autograph, and shook his hand for a job well done. So call me old fashioned, but the electronica won the evening for me, over the beat combo approach. George ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:22:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: inertiaecetera << A.J. I'm with you here. Wire to me have aged much more gracefully than GOF. >> Go4 had pretty much lost it by 1982 IMO.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:26:04 -0400 From: "A.J. Wells" Subject: Re: Wire at the Metro The sounds that they play at the beginning of the show sound like downsampled guitar harmonics... probably something from the rehearsals played way down on the keyboard and looped... but I could be way off and it could be something from some obscure Hox record that I've never heard... ;) Aj - -----Original Message----- From: flaherty michael w To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 4:33 PM Subject: Wire at the Metro >Some comments: > >1. I've been going to rock concerts for over 25 years. This is one of >best I have EVER seen--completely blows away the 80s Wire concerts I saw, >by the way. My wife always "liked" Wire. This morning she was going >through Kevin's book. Quote: "Best concert I've seen in Chicago" (we've >been here 6 years). > >2. While I was waiting for the doors to open, Colin and Robert came out. >Robert intentionally avoided the crowd; Colin didn't, so I smiled and >silently waved (pretty sure I'm the only one who recognized him) and he >smiled and said "Hi." Robert was giving him a "no, let's go" kind of >look, and when Graham and some others (no Bruce) came out they immediately >took off--I assume to eat dinner. > >3. Wire is not just running through old songs. They are exploring their >musical relationship through a common vocabulary. I can't wait to see >where it leads. The instrumental breaks showed me that the flame is still >there. But then, I love their 90s solo work. > >4. Bruce does not look ill, he looks 54. His playing, especially the >intros and exits to the slower songs, was incredible. He should forget >how to play the guitar more often. > >5. Does anyone know what the synth intro that was playing as they entered >is? > >6. Sorry I didn't make it to the Gingerman. We saw the line forming and >opted for good seats. Like many American Wire fans, I bought the first 3 >albums and the singles when they were brand new, but never heard them play >any of it live. Nostolgic? Sure. But if that's all it was, I wouldn't >be this happy. > >Michael Flaherty > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:36:48 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Wire in Chicago last night In a message dated 05/11/00 3:29:47PM, you write: << my "young" man is from Manchester - the story goes, there was this little band called Manicured Noise - they went to a club in I think Sheffield or something, met with Wire and asked if they could support them - Wire said yes - it went on from there - my young man was acting manager of Manicured Noise, although not officially titled, until he got them hooked up with Linda, who he knew from somewhere, and who could do a better job for them with her connections in London - he did do two tours with Manicured Noise backing up Wire >> Now there's another blast from the past - I have both the MN singles (I think that's all they ever made) - sort of a rougher Talking Heads circa Fear of Music... Female rhythm section from what I remember, gtr/vocals and a sax player. 'Faith' is a particlarly good tune... Shame they never made an LP... were there any other recorded tracks? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:38:20 -0400 From: "A.J. Wells" Subject: Re: inertiaecetera Well I liked Songs of The Free more than some people around here, but by the Hard record they had pretty much lost the plot... the chemistry of that band was so dependent on the Burnham/Allen rhythm section and when they lost that a lot of the tension went away... actually I thought that the soul strings on Hard were ok, but the music just wasnt tight enough... and they had said what they had to say... The real tragedy for me was seeing how little they did with modern pop culture on Shrinkwrapped and Mall... I mean there were several songs on phone sex, but its not like that needs any sort of parody at all... I just look out at this hilarious world that we live in at the moment and really wish there was some smart, self aware, non-preachy dissent out there... but it seems few and far between... this culture seems to be immune to critique because it co-ops dissent as soon as it appears... the most strident political pop record out recently, Primals Exterminator, was hailed as a great statement of political dissent, but "No civil disobedience.. No civil disobedience..." doesnt really agitate me much Aj - -----Original Message----- From: MarkBursa@aol.com To: jdingus@cisco.com ; idealcopy@smoe.org Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:25 PM Subject: Re: inertiaecetera > ><< A.J. I'm with you here. Wire to me have aged much more gracefully than > GOF. >> > >Go4 had pretty much lost it by 1982 IMO.... > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:46:52 -0700 (PDT) From: BillyD Subject: Re: Need to sell my Wire 7"ers. Gee! Sounded great til I read all that ebay nonsense... Why does everyone have to be so greedy? If you post a fair price I'm sure someone would buy it. Cheers, Billy - --- stephen graziano wrote: > Hi although I'm new to the group, I've been a Wire > fan from their beginning > back in the 70's. In the course of time I've > accumulated lots of Wire > stuff, but life's responsibilites require me to > create more space (i.e. less > stuff) in my life. If anyone's interested these > singles are now for sale on > ebay: > > Mannequin/Feeling Called Love/12XU > eBay # 329952411 > Dot Dash/Options R > eBay # 329954519 > Outdoor Miner/Practice Makes Perfect - White vinyl > ps 329957269 > A Question of Degree/Former Airline ps > 329959212 > Bonus 7" included with early copys of 154 > 329961316 > > I have taken great care of these records and they > are all in perfect > condition. Some of the sleeves show wear. Looking > foward to seeing them in > DC. - Steve G. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com > ===== . ./\/\/\. [ . . ] /\ -- -Get Well Sammy! (R)SOT Ltd. http://depechemode.acmecity.com/freestate/54 http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:48:02 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Wire's principle in music. Aaron, << at the D&E shows, apparently, none of the audience had heard any of the songs before. that's a pretty high-water mark of not-repeating.<< Apart from 12XU, only Underwater Experiences had been played before >>on the other hand, i believe later Wire would play songs from their most recent album, albeit often reworked. << When they reformed in 1985 they played all-new material - it was two years before Ideal Copy came out - by which time they were on to the ABIAC stuff.... The reworking came in the studio. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:20:08 EDT From: KB305@aol.com Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #127 In a message dated 05/10/2000 3:32:45 AM Central Daylight Time, owner-Ray Ciscon writes: << > During my last visit to the Metro, late February of this year to see Apollo 440, seating was available only in the balcony. Left side for 'special guests', right side for 'armchair' concert goers. I place myself firmly in the 'armchair' category. When you're my age, 36, your mosh pit days are over. I hope to grab a table up top on the right.>> Well, that's where I was... 1. It's my firm belief that everyone there was in some way in the film 'High Fidelity'. 2a. I confess I only seriously took up Wire AFTER 1987. And thought I've gone 'round and gotten most of the solo works, pre-IdealCopy just hadn't gone into my earholes right. 2b. EVERYTHING is different now. I want to do it again. Kevin (worth the 500-mile trip -- and I got to see the Dave Holland Quintet too... I'll bet I was the only member included in both subsets...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:40:49 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: Americans and Marxism A.J. you must live S.F. "A.J. Wells" wrote: > Most Americans are not aware of the political content of ANYTHING... except > for the banal self-serving opinions that spout on talk radio and during > election years... none of us think anything of waking up in the morning, > having our mood defined by CNBC, going out for a Starbucks and a Noahs > Bagel, going to work for The Gap, consuming entertainment at the Sony > Metreon and then going back to check our investments on ETrade until we fall > asleep and dream of our upcoming IPO... nothing political there mmm? > > Aj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ciscon, Ray > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 2:20 PM > Subject: Americans and Marxism > > >We American's would never run the Gang of Four out of the country for their > >Marxist ideology. The first amendment to our Constitution covers stuff like > >that. > > > >Sadly, most American's are thoroughly and completely unaware of the > >political content of music. If it's got a good beat and you can dance to > it, > >or if it 'ROCKS' (said with full and complete sarcasm), it might be a big > >hit, even if it's just a musical adaptation of 'The Internationale'. > > > >I would like to think that most Americans who do recognize political dogma > >in music, i.e. Go4, Billy Bragg, Easterhouse, etc., almost universally > >left-wing BTW, are smart enough to ignore it. If anyone I knew got their > >political ideas from pop music, I'd have to laugh, then question their > >sanity. > > > >I've met a lot of musicians, and believe me the vast majority of them are > no > >smarter than you or me. Getting anything other than emotional enjoyment > >(from happy to sad) from music is a sign of an impending > > > >Which brings up one of the funniest things in American popular music, Rage > >Against the Machine. A band full of well off young college graduates who > >never worked a day of 'real work' in their lives have dedicated themselves > >to bringing their message of Marxist/Lenninist/Maoist thought to the > masses. > >Together they can 'Fight the Man'! My guess is that 95 out of 100 Rage > >Against the Machine fans couldn't tell you the difference between > Communism, > >Socialism, and democratic/republican forms of government. > > > >We had an intern in our office who, when he wasn't wearing Phish t-shirts > >would wear his Rage Against the Machine t-shirt. You know, the one with > Che' > >on it... He had no idea who Che' was, but he BOUGHT the shirt at Rage > >Against the Machine concert, and he paid $50 to get it, so it had to be > >cool. He had absolutely no idea about RaTM's political stances... they > >'rocked', and that was enough for him. > > > >Getting back to Go4, I never saw the appeal in any of their music... but > I'm > >glad that Dave Allen left the band to form Shriekback... They have a > >definite appeal for me! > > > >Cheers, > > > >Ray ( I don't get my ideas about religion from Sinead O'Connor either) > >Ciscon > >Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager > >Comark, Inc. > > > >In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: > >The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 > >** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. > >** > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: John Roberts [mailto:jarobert@dmu.ac.uk] > >Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:34 AM > >To: A.J. Wells > >Cc: Alyce Ornella; idealcopy@smoe.org > >Subject: Re: theoldwiththenew > > > >> I wish we would see some more from the Gang Of Four... their view of the > >> world as a disorienting forest of images in which ones hopes and dreams > >are > >> used to hold the soul captive in the Market Of The Senses holds far more > >> true today than it did when they were in their heyday... but Gill/King > >> havent seemed to be able to tap into that thing in their recent records > >> including Shrikwrapped and Mall... I think they might be a bit too old to > >be > >> able to critique modern culture at this point... but there is still NO > >sound > >> in rock like Andy Gills guitar and probably will never be... I think I > >would > >> be less likely to want to see the GOF live than Wire, because their work > >was > >> sort of tied to that time and there is an element of protest that doesnt > >age > >> well... but I would give it a go see... > > > >What is it with Americans and Gang of Four? As devout Marxists I'd have > >thought you'd have had them run out of the country! 8-) > >Totally agree with the above: tho there protest doth seem a little dated > >you can't help finding At Home He Feels Like A Tourist, their homage to > >alienation, ironically comforting (does that make sense?). > >Try thinking Steve Albini's guitar style without the above Go4 track. its > >impossible. Now, can anyone explain to me just how gill got to produce > >RHChilli Peppers early album? RHCPs are not what I would call politically > >progressive - wiping your penis on a female journos face doesn't quite sit > >with maoism somehow. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:53:02 -0400 From: "Moshe Imel" Subject: RE: Wire in Boston tomorrow... Yeah and what about the show in D.C on Saturday? Anybody getting together? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of A. Izenstark Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:34 PM To: Idealcopy Subject: Wire in Boston tomorrow... There was such excitement over a pre-show get-together in Chicago that I'm somewhat surprised that no one's said a word about any sort of get-together before/at the Boston show. I'm not able to propose or make any pre-show rendezvous, but are we going to remain anonymous to each other tomorrow night (well, anonymous to those who haven't already met us yet)? The Bostonian in me says "Remain anonymous!" while the Chicagoan in me would like to be social. Any suggestions? Amanda who is wondering if the guy who placed a personal ad in the Phoenix a year ago or so describing himself as being a Wire fan and having a pet rabbit will be at tomorrow's show... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:44:26 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Americans and Marxism "San Fransisco" or "science fiction"? Or both? Dan >A.J. you must live S.F. > >"A.J. Wells" wrote: > >> Most Americans are not aware of the political content of ANYTHING... except >> for the banal self-serving opinions that spout on talk radio and during >> election years... none of us think anything of waking up in the morning, >> having our mood defined by CNBC, going out for a Starbucks and a Noahs >> Bagel, going to work for The Gap, consuming entertainment at the Sony >> Metreon and then going back to check our investments on ETrade until we fall >> asleep and dream of our upcoming IPO... nothing political there mmm? >> >> Aj >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ciscon, Ray >> To: idealcopy@smoe.org >> Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 2:20 PM >> Subject: Americans and Marxism >> >> >We American's would never run the Gang of Four out of the country for their >> >Marxist ideology. The first amendment to our Constitution covers stuff like >> >that. >> > >> >Sadly, most American's are thoroughly and completely unaware of the >> >political content of music. If it's got a good beat and you can dance to >> it, >> >or if it 'ROCKS' (said with full and complete sarcasm), it might be a big >> >hit, even if it's just a musical adaptation of 'The Internationale'. >> > >> >I would like to think that most Americans who do recognize political dogma >> >in music, i.e. Go4, Billy Bragg, Easterhouse, etc., almost universally >> >left-wing BTW, are smart enough to ignore it. If anyone I knew got their >> >political ideas from pop music, I'd have to laugh, then question their >> >sanity. >> > >> >I've met a lot of musicians, and believe me the vast majority of them are >> no >> >smarter than you or me. Getting anything other than emotional enjoyment >> >(from happy to sad) from music is a sign of an impending >> > >> >Which brings up one of the funniest things in American popular music, Rage >> >Against the Machine. A band full of well off young college graduates who >> >never worked a day of 'real work' in their lives have dedicated themselves >> >to bringing their message of Marxist/Lenninist/Maoist thought to the >> masses. >> >Together they can 'Fight the Man'! My guess is that 95 out of 100 Rage >> >Against the Machine fans couldn't tell you the difference between >> Communism, >> >Socialism, and democratic/republican forms of government. >> > >> >We had an intern in our office who, when he wasn't wearing Phish t-shirts >> >would wear his Rage Against the Machine t-shirt. You know, the one with >> Che' >> >on it... He had no idea who Che' was, but he BOUGHT the shirt at Rage >> >Against the Machine concert, and he paid $50 to get it, so it had to be >> >cool. He had absolutely no idea about RaTM's political stances... they >> >'rocked', and that was enough for him. >> > >> >Getting back to Go4, I never saw the appeal in any of their music... but >> I'm >> >glad that Dave Allen left the band to form Shriekback... They have a >> >definite appeal for me! >> > >> >Cheers, >> > >> >Ray ( I don't get my ideas about religion from Sinead O'Connor either) >> >Ciscon >> >Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager >> >Comark, Inc. >> > >> >In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: >> >The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 >> >** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. >> >** >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> >From: John Roberts [mailto:jarobert@dmu.ac.uk] >> >Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:34 AM >> >To: A.J. Wells >> >Cc: Alyce Ornella; idealcopy@smoe.org >> >Subject: Re: theoldwiththenew >> > >> >> I wish we would see some more from the Gang Of Four... their view of the >> >> world as a disorienting forest of images in which ones hopes and dreams >> >are >> >> used to hold the soul captive in the Market Of The Senses holds far more >> >> true today than it did when they were in their heyday... but Gill/King >> >> havent seemed to be able to tap into that thing in their recent records >> >> including Shrikwrapped and Mall... I think they might be a bit too old to >> >be >> >> able to critique modern culture at this point... but there is still NO >> >sound >> >> in rock like Andy Gills guitar and probably will never be... I think I >> >would >> >> be less likely to want to see the GOF live than Wire, because their work >> >was >> >> sort of tied to that time and there is an element of protest that doesnt >> >age >> >> well... but I would give it a go see... >> > >> >What is it with Americans and Gang of Four? As devout Marxists I'd have >> >thought you'd have had them run out of the country! 8-) >> >Totally agree with the above: tho there protest doth seem a little dated >> >you can't help finding At Home He Feels Like A Tourist, their homage to >> >alienation, ironically comforting (does that make sense?). >> >Try thinking Steve Albini's guitar style without the above Go4 track. its >> >impossible. Now, can anyone explain to me just how gill got to produce >> >RHChilli Peppers early album? RHCPs are not what I would call politically >> >progressive - wiping your penis on a female journos face doesn't quite sit >> >with maoism somehow. >> > >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:55:01 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: inertia tour Ummm ... I'm exhausted after several hours in airports (though I *did* make 2 straight standby flights after weather knocked out the scheduled Chicago-to-St Louis at noon) but am stupidly heading out to a local show *anyway* & don't have time to look over past posts, but surely someone *has* mentioned that Inertia has proven to be pie-in-the-sky for 2 straight years (fall '98, spring/summer '99) & thus is nothing to pin any sort of hopes whatsoever on, n'est-ce pas? Dan >So, yeah...that's pretty awesome. >I agree that GO4's later stuff, Hard and then on, isn't good but >that doesn't take away from Entertainment being my second favorite >album ever, or make me want to see them any less. It's like with Wire,I'm >not a fan of their later stuff but that didn't stop me from >having the best time last night at the Metro show. I never thought >I'd get to see them; you know, I'm young and wasn't even alive when >their first two records came out, who would think that 20-something >years later I'd get to actually see one of my favorite bands, who isn't >particularly active at this point, perform??? I'm amazed. When you like >music from a generation before you, you don't really expect to be able to >take part in seeing them live. For some people they might be kinda old >news, and some of you all have seen them in their best years I imagine. >I'll take what I can get and I got a really good show last night. I'll be >first in line to get tickets for the inertia tour, I don't even care that >the Fall's recent records suck, >they made Hex Enduction and that's enough for me. So, getting tickets for >Gang of Four is a must. Damn. I should make more wishes to see more >bands...maybe the Soft Boys reform. >Alyce > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:57:17 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: inertia tour > >> I'll take what I can get and I got a really good show last night. >> I'll be >> first in line to get tickets for the inertia tour, I don't even care that >> the Fall's recent records suck, >> they made Hex Enduction and that's enough for me. So, getting >> tickets for >> Gang of Four is a must. Damn. I should make more wishes to see more >> bands...maybe the Soft Boys reform. >> Alyce >> > >The Fall's latest albums don't suck, to my opinion - especially the last >three or four (from Cerebral Caustic till Marshall Suite), and as musch as I >love HexEnduction, I think they made better albums before and after (Witch >Trials, Slates, Perverted by Language, Wonderfull / Frightening, Nation's >saving grace and, to my opinion the best one - Bend Sinister). I agree 100 percent (except that, of course, I can't stand Hex ... or, for that matter, Levitate) & do regard Bend Sinister as criminally underrated. Have mentioned before that I'm also big on Frenz & Code: Selfish. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:28:07 -0400 From: "Jeff Chenault" Subject: Wire in Chicago (Front Row) Hello everyone, Just wanted to thank everyone that I met up in Chicago. Dan, Ray, Dave and Charles and others whose names elude me. What a great time. WIRE put on an incredible show! Like Charles said "it's all about Drill". The band seemed really into it and considering their age these guys were tight. I was right up front near the stage slightly off center (as usual) and my ears were ringing the rest of the night. Huh, What?? Hey, did the rest of the band show up while Colin was DJ'ing? I left around 2 am and sure wanted to meet them. Colin's DJ set of Swim material was really nice too. It was a great way to kick off the "Noise Pop Chicago" festival. Jeff ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #131 *******************************