From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #130 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, May 11 2000 Volume 03 : Number 130 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: theoldwiththenew [John Roberts ] Re[2]: Newman [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[2]: horrifying mismatch? [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re: Recoil [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] recoil [Stuart Fairbrother ] Re: recoil [John Roberts ] Re[3]: BBQ some sacred cows. [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[3]: BBQ some sacred cows. [John Roberts ] inertiaecetera [Jim Dingus ] recoil ["Michel Faber" ] onion2 ["Patrick N. Bryant" ] Re: recoil [Wireviews ] RE: Metro ["webmaster" ] RE: Metro ["giluz" ] Re: Re: onion2 ["Patrick N. Bryant" ] Re: onion2 [Pleaskillme@aol.com] Re: Wire in Chicago last night [Pleaskillme@aol.com] Re: [Pleaskillme@aol.com] RE: Wire's principle in music. [Aaron Mandel ] FW: Metro ["giluz" ] inertia tour ["Alyce Ornella" ] RE: inertia tour ["giluz" ] a very long interview [sam charrington ] Re: a very long interview [Joshua ] Americans and Marxism ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: inertia tour ["stephen graziano" ] RE: Wire in Chicago last night ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: Americans and Marxism ["stephen graziano" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:34:11 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: theoldwiththenew > I wish we would see some more from the Gang Of Four... their view of the > world as a disorienting forest of images in which ones hopes and dreams are > used to hold the soul captive in the Market Of The Senses holds far more > true today than it did when they were in their heyday... but Gill/King > havent seemed to be able to tap into that thing in their recent records > including Shrikwrapped and Mall... I think they might be a bit too old to be > able to critique modern culture at this point... but there is still NO sound > in rock like Andy Gills guitar and probably will never be... I think I would > be less likely to want to see the GOF live than Wire, because their work was > sort of tied to that time and there is an element of protest that doesnt age > well... but I would give it a go see... What is it with Americans and Gang of Four? As devout Marxists I'd have thought you'd have had them run out of the country! 8-) Totally agree with the above: tho there protest doth seem a little dated you can't help finding At Home He Feels Like A Tourist, their homage to alienation, ironically comforting (does that make sense?). Try thinking Steve Albini's guitar style without the above Go4 track. its impossible. Now, can anyone explain to me just how gill got to produce RHChilli Peppers early album? RHCPs are not what I would call politically progressive - wiping your penis on a female journos face doesn't quite sit with maoism somehow. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:35:45 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Newman well a lot of people seem to see tortoise as the epitome of post-rock , but when i saw them i slept thru most of their set so i will comment no further. prog rock alert.... p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Newman Author: MIME:giluz@nettalk.com at INTERNET Date: 09/05/2000 15:44 >Then of course the Post Rock thing > happened and he ... um... must have changed his mind? I wanted for a long time to ask this - what exactly is Post Rock? Does it really exist or is it just a new label for rockers who doesn't want to sound anachronistic? (I'm not slagging anyone off here - I don't think I've ever heard any post rock band) giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:18:36 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: horrifying mismatch? - - i agree, sorry i see grimaces already. and lest we for, members of wire collaborated on the first 2 Recoil albums, which is a project by alan wilder, depeche mode member. if memory serves me right, there was a 12 inch single called 1+2 that was made up of snippets of wire and depeche mode electronica. ps - the new Recoil "Liquid" is brilliant. co starring dean garcia from Curve and Diamonda Galas. >>>>> strange , i have never seen this mentioned in any discography before. so who is actually involved on these recoil albums? given that the usual habitat of recoil albums is the dump bin i may have to go pick these up........ p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:49:05 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: Re: Recoil Recoil is one member only, Alan Wilder, ex-member of Depeche Mode. From Mute you can buy Hydrology and 1+2 on one CD. Like previous emails have said this is basically sampled DM and Wire stuff. Background music. Wilder started using vocalists on the next, Bloodline. Doug McCarthy from Nitzer Ebb, Moby, Toni Haliday etc. Not a bad effort. Worth buying. Unsound Methods is a darker affair. Again, IMO, it's a little hit and miss. Still well worth buying. The latest, Liquid, has been lauded and applauded by both critics and the buying public. And you won't find this in the bargain bins for a long time to come. Check out : http://www.recoil.co.uk/ for more inf. Let's not forget the Wire supported DM on their Music For The Masses tour. The final concert at The Rose Bowl, Pasadena, pulled 65,000 fans in. I think that there was mutual respect between the two bands and *at the time* the groups were quite similar to each other. Chris. paul.rabjohn@ssab.com on 11/05/2000 11:18:36 To: idealcopy@smoe.org, marlonland@mindspring.com cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: Re[2]: horrifying mismatch? - - i agree, sorry i see grimaces already. and lest we for, members of wire collaborated on the first 2 Recoil albums, which is a project by alan wilder, depeche mode member. if memory serves me right, there was a 12 inch single called 1+2 that was made up of snippets of wire and depeche mode electronica. ps - the new Recoil "Liquid" is brilliant. co starring dean garcia from Curve and Diamonda Galas. >>>>> strange , i have never seen this mentioned in any discography before. so who is actually involved on these recoil albums? given that the usual habitat of recoil albums is the dump bin i may have to go pick these up........ p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:47:37 +0100 From: Stuart Fairbrother Subject: recoil Pretty sad this i realise - I have two copies of Recoil "1+2" on vinyl. One states 45rpm on the labels and the other 33rpm. I have never decided which I prefer. Anyone know the reason behind this 'error' and, indeed, which is the correct speed. 45rpm does mean it is over quicker which is an advantage in this case I feel. Is one of them a rarity? Stu. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:50:18 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: recoil > Is one of them a rarity? Only to the effect that you describe one of them as 'listenable'. > > Stu. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:23:07 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[3]: BBQ some sacred cows. Pere Ubu have released two cracking last studio albums. Agree Buzzcocks TTT was good - if you edit out the Diggle bits it makes an oustanding album. I've not got the lp but saw Vic Goddard doing his new lp on the tv live and that sounded like a continuation of his excellent form. Am I allowed to mention Rudimentary Peni again? >>>> editing out steve diggle is always a sound move. his 3 tracks on the 3rd album (tension) are so bad its untrue , whereas shelley's stuff is fabulous. flag of convenience , you have got to be joking. so what was this vic godard tv thing then? p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:31:56 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: Re[3]: BBQ some sacred cows. > >>>> editing out steve diggle is always a sound move. his 3 tracks on the 3rd album (tension) are so bad its untrue , whereas shelley's stuff is fabulous. flag of convenience , you have got to be joking. And Love is nice/love is ice off of Love Bites is a couplet and a half. > > so what was this vic godard tv thing then? p > It was ages ago now. it was that nme week at the old town and country club when the bad seeds, etc played. goddard's band inc. Paul Cook and Edwyn Collins...surely the first time that pair have appeared on stage together?> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:34:13 -0400 From: Jim Dingus Subject: inertiaecetera >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:57:06 -0700 >From: Brian Barnett >Subject: Re: theoldwiththenew >Checkout >http://www.inertiatour.com/ >>Jim wrote >>Not at all trying to create a stir here, but I'm surprised to see this >>aversion to Wire reforming as stripped-down guitar combo. Hey Brian - I 've seen the Inertia site, thanks. In your opinion...is inertia a bad or good thing? To me, the glass is half-full: The Fall's, The Marshall Suite is fairly strong return to form (it's no Slates or Hex Enduction Hour, but...), The Buzzcocks have been getting very good press in relation to their live gigs, and would probably be worth a peek, Colin Newman solo, Gary Clail was a techno-electronica pioneer, even though I have no idea what he or Richard Kirk have been up to. The Gang of Four, hmmm..tough one. Saw them on The Songs of the Free tour and the levelled the place, but that was many moons ago. While I was a big fan up to Songs of the Free, their recent recorded stuff hasn't done much for me at all...to that it's bad; it's jsut not good. Anyway, if this is an all day event thingy and is near by, I'll be there. >A.J Wells. wrote >I think I would >be less likely to want to see the GOF live than Wire, because their work was >sort of tied to that time and there is an element of protest that doesnt age >well... but I would give it a go see... A.J. I'm with you here. Wire to me have aged much more gracefully than GOF. I'm not even sure what it is exactly, but so many of those bands that I thought were the shit back in the late 70s, early 80s...just seem rusty to me now. Talking Heads, Sex Pistols, Television, The Voidoids, The Clash, The Jam. I can enjoy their stuff in nostaligic way, but as vital music; there's not much of it that does anything for me. Funny though, a lot of the early 80s post-punk stuff still sounds good to me though....The Meatpuppets, The Minutemen, 100 Flowers. Wire DC show 3 days away...that's the Lowdown ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:39:04 +0100 From: "Michel Faber" Subject: recoil Quite a few list members have been saying derisory/dismissive things about Recoil. To each his own opinion, but just in case there's anyone out there who'd assert that Recoil's 1+2 is rubbish, unlistenable, etc, while maintaining that Duet Emmo's Or So It Seems is rather fab, this would be case of blatant prejudice - since both records are built up from shared materials, largely by Daniel Miller. Personally, I think the first three Recoil albums are pretty damn good - I haven't heard this new Liquid thing that's apparently been so successful with critics and public alike. One thing that's really intriguing about Recoil's Bloodline album is that it features a piece called 'Electro Blues for Bukka White', a sample of an old blues singer set to electronic music. Methinks that Moby (who guested on a different track) heard this great experiment of Alan Wilder's, thought to himself "Hmm, samples of gritty old blues singers melded to electronic music - what a good idea!", and, years later, came up with 'Natural Blues' and the other stuff on Play. Don't get me wrong, I think Moby's great, but when journalists ask him where he got "his" groundbreaking idea, he enthuses about old blues recordings he happened across, and doesn't mention Recoil at all... Ah, the need to appear cool and innovative at all times! Best wishes, Michel Faber ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 8:44:38 EDT From: "Patrick N. Bryant" Subject: onion2 just sent a copy of a wire interview from american satirical publication the onion. surprisingly for a humor periodical, the onion publishes the more insightful and challenging interview with the band i've read. gilbert and lewis are quite frank about the freeze-dried nature of the tour, but nonetheless seem to be willing to attempt to redeem it in some ways with a sense of adventure. i dont know if the onion's dry humor translates well across the atlantic, but while you're at the site, check out such features as hipster over-explains visit to the mall. it's ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 06:00:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Re: recoil - --- Michel Faber wrote: > just in case there's > anyone out there who'd assert that Recoil's 1+2 is > rubbish, unlistenable, etc, while maintaining that Duet > Emmo's Or So It > Seems is rather fab, this would be case of blatant prejudice Well, I'm of that opinion actually. The sounds on Duet Emmo are simply used in a much better manner. Bloodline is quite good though... > One thing that's really intriguing about Recoil's > Bloodline album is > that it features a piece called 'Electro Blues for > Bukka White', a > sample of an old blues singer set to electronic > music. Methinks that > Moby thought to himself "Hmm, samples > of gritty old > blues singers melded to electronic music - what a > good idea!", I don't see that much of a link between these two tracks, bar the slight blues refs. However, there is a track on Liquid that could have come straight off of Play (although it doesn't sound quite as convincing as Moby's arrangements). Craig. Wireviews. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:43:42 -0500 From: "webmaster" Subject: RE: Metro It was all about 12XU Drill. The sound was brilliant too! Met some GREAT Wire fans, hope we can do it again (well, maybe just for Video?!) (And Graham wanted a Dugga T-Shirt! hahaha) charles / wmo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:52:14 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Metro > > (And Graham wanted a Dugga T-Shirt! hahaha) > I'm not surprised - the dugga t-shirt is wicked , as well as the cd. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:12:25 EDT From: "Patrick N. Bryant" Subject: Re: Re: onion2 sorry for taking three e-mails to state what can easily be achieved in one. the wire interview is at theonion.com, click on the AVsection/wire interview hyperlink in the upper right hand corner. again, it's an interview where the memebrs honestly reflect on the problems, or hypocrisy of the an innovative band doing re-packaged hits. as long as artists (at least) acknowledge the myriad of influences on their aesthetic decisions (commerce, vision, family, etc), im not disturbed by such an effort. though one element of the lewis interview that does disturb me is suggestion that the band have historically been indifferent to the audience. i typically find such statements disengenuous (how can one perform in front of an audience and at the same time ignore them; its a metaphysical riddle). because artists are communicative, they necessarily involve and account for the audience, even if its only to purposely upset their expectations (as blissfully evidenced on D&E). having said that, and rather inarticulately at that, the interview confirms my enthusiasm for the band and members... finally, the interviewer should be commended for adopting a critical attitude, instead of fawning over the band's glory... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: "Michel Faber" Subject: Re: onion2 Date: 05/11/00 09:34 Sorry Patrick, but your email as I received it ends with the word 'it's' - - and then no more. (Very Monty Python) So, if you intended to give us an email or web address for Onion, it didn't get through. The Wire interview sounds excellent, from your description. Try again? Best wishes, Michel Faber _______________________________________________________ Date sent: Thu, 11 May 2000 8:44:38 EDT To: From: "Patrick N. Bryant" Send reply to: Subject: onion2 just sent a copy of a wire interview from american satirical publication the onion. surprisingly for a humor periodical, the onion publishes the more insightful and challenging interview with the band i've read. gilbert and lewis are quite frank about the freeze-dried nature of the tour, but nonetheless seem to be willing to attempt to redeem it in some ways with a sense of adventure. i dont know if the onion's dry humor translates well across the atlantic, but while you're at the site, check out such features as hipster over-explains visit to the mall. it's ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:51:18 EDT From: Pleaskillme@aol.com Subject: Re: onion2 In a message dated 5/11/00 9:48:57 AM Central Daylight Time, Pleaskillme writes: > In a message dated 5/11/00 7:46:37 AM Central Daylight Time, p.bryant@nunet. > neu.edu writes: > > > just sent a copy of a wire interview from american satirical publication > the > > onion. surprisingly for a humor periodical, the onion publishes the more > > insightful and challenging interview with the band i've read. gilbert and > > lewis are quite frank about the freeze-dried nature of the tour, but > > nonetheless seem to be willing to attempt to redeem it in some ways with a > > > sense of adventure. > > > > i dont know if the onion's dry humor translates well across the atlantic, > > > but while you're at the site, check out such features as hipster over- > > explains visit to the mall. > > > > it's beginning to & back again? Did I pass the test? Dan, ears still ringing from the show last night (not that they've really stopped since the Buzzcocks' 12/93 show in Dallas ...) > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:27:16 EDT From: Pleaskillme@aol.com Subject: Re: Wire in Chicago last night Hiya, My name's Laurel - I'm not a list member, but I was lucky enough to meet some of you last night - I'm writing through my good friend Dan, aka Tube Disaster, etc I just wanted to say thank you for the warmth and good company last night - I'm terrible with names, please forgive me, or I'd say hello to each of you personally I was at the show with Dan, who flew in from Little Rock - who I'll leave the show review to, he and I tend to think pretty much the same and he's so much better at it than I am - we've known each other quite a while through Buzzcocks mostly - I'm born and raised in the Chicago area - my Wire connection is tenuous at best, not like all of you good people - my "young" man is from Manchester - the story goes, there was this little band called Manicured Noise - they went to a club in I think Sheffield or something, met with Wire and asked if they could support them - Wire said yes - it went on from there - my young man was acting manager of Manicured Noise, although not officially titled, until he got them hooked up with Linda, who he knew from somewhere, and who could do a better job for them with her connections in London - he did do two tours with Manicured Noise backing up Wire - his name is Joey, so named by Pete Shelley because of his remarkable likeness to said Ramone - but he can't say enough good things about Wire, and does so often - he was really bummed that he had to be out of town and miss the show & seeing Dan again - and now, from me telling him all about you, meeting the list members which brings me to, again, I'm horrible with names - Ray is it? the gentleman I was talking to about XL1? - go to www.headen.com where you can download the program to go with the music - there's also a little anecdote section where he tells about just being there with Pete and how it all came about so that's it - just wanted to say thanks for letting me participate and just being really nice, good people - the music was great, but the company was better - no offense to the band, they were splendid - and an especial thank you to Charles & the band for the kindness Laurel (hatsephsut@hotmail.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:29:12 EDT From: Pleaskillme@aol.com Subject: Re: Feigned hearing ... Dan In a message dated 5/11/00 9:58:15 AM Central Daylight Time, jsteinmann@clynch.com writes: > > What? > > > On Thursday, May 11, 2000, Dan signed off: > > Dan, ears still ringing from the show last night > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:30:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: RE: Wire's principle in music. On Tue, 9 May 2000, BOURGEOISIE wrote: > The point here is that Wire have been making a principle out of the > idea that they would not repeat themselves for a long time now, it is > not a recent development. sure, but what it means to "repeat themselves" has always been left a little vague, assumed to be propped up by the evidence of what they were doing. at the D&E shows, apparently, none of the audience had heard any of the songs before. that's a pretty high-water mark of not-repeating. on the other hand, i believe later Wire would play songs from their most recent album, albeit often reworked. and there's the kicker -- from the demos that have been released, from IBTABA and from other places, we've seen that Wire often changed a song so much in the course of its lifetime that they felt justified in saying that they weren't playing the 'same thing' over and over again. that's fine, but they were in fact turning to music they had already written for material. > The music that they made is a product of that principle, a > determination to move forward, even when they could've made a nice > pile of money playing a 12xu nostalgia act for "spiky teens" on a > split bill with Elastica. it is a product of their principles, perhaps, but not *only* a product of their principles, or else any sufficiently strong-willed band could have beat them to releasing Chairs Missing by following the same principles. > I feel my criticism is fair as it is based on the reported set lists but a set list, in itself, really doesn't tell you anything important when dealing with a band like Wire; i offer the whole of The Drill as evidence. > No, it's not that i think you have no standards, Instead I felt that > you had abandoned standards for faith. but 'faith' is all we have between records, unless we're going to trust Wire's notoriously dodgy explanations of what they do. yes, the basic "not repeating ourselves" thing has been true to varying degrees for a long time. but beyond that... > But then ask yourself if their performance offered you something for > your money that you couldn't have received by just playing their > alblum(s) at home. trust me, if going to the show sounds little different from playing the records really loud, i will be incredibly disappointed. > Wire has again been an active unit for a little while now and though > they usually quickly jettison old material in favor of new....that has > not been the case this time around...doesn't that seem indicative or > at least a warning of stagnation to you? after not working as a group for ten years? no, not really. i don't play a musical instrument, and i hear that for some people it can take a long time to get used to it again. of course, it's true that they could have rehearsed in secret, if they felt compelled to get their chops back by playing old music instead of writing the new stuff as they eased back in. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:24:54 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: FW: Metro - -----Original Message----- From: giluz [mailto:giluz@nettalk.com] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:24 PM To: John M Campbell Subject: RE: Metro Actually, I have to admit that my Dugga CD disappeared mysteriously not long after I bought my Dugga t-shirt, so watch out everyone. giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: John M Campbell [mailto:whatever@olympus.net] > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:22 PM > To: giluz > Subject: Re: Metro > > > IMHOP everyone should own a DUGGA shirt (available at WMO) but > then I'm just > the guy who printed them johnc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "giluz" > To: "IdealCopy" > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:52 AM > Subject: RE: Metro > > > > > > > > (And Graham wanted a Dugga T-Shirt! hahaha) > > > > > I'm not surprised - the dugga t-shirt is wicked , as well as the cd. > > giluz > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:48:51 CDT From: "Alyce Ornella" Subject: inertia tour So, yeah...that's pretty awesome. I agree that GO4's later stuff, Hard and then on, isn't good but that doesn't take away from Entertainment being my second favorite album ever, or make me want to see them any less. It's like with Wire,I'm not a fan of their later stuff but that didn't stop me from having the best time last night at the Metro show. I never thought I'd get to see them; you know, I'm young and wasn't even alive when their first two records came out, who would think that 20-something years later I'd get to actually see one of my favorite bands, who isn't particularly active at this point, perform??? I'm amazed. When you like music from a generation before you, you don't really expect to be able to take part in seeing them live. For some people they might be kinda old news, and some of you all have seen them in their best years I imagine. I'll take what I can get and I got a really good show last night. I'll be first in line to get tickets for the inertia tour, I don't even care that the Fall's recent records suck, they made Hex Enduction and that's enough for me. So, getting tickets for Gang of Four is a must. Damn. I should make more wishes to see more bands...maybe the Soft Boys reform. Alyce ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:17:32 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: inertia tour > I'll take what I can get and I got a really good show last night. > I'll be > first in line to get tickets for the inertia tour, I don't even care that > the Fall's recent records suck, > they made Hex Enduction and that's enough for me. So, getting > tickets for > Gang of Four is a must. Damn. I should make more wishes to see more > bands...maybe the Soft Boys reform. > Alyce > The Fall's latest albums don't suck, to my opinion - especially the last three or four (from Cerebral Caustic till Marshall Suite), and as musch as I love HexEnduction, I think they made better albums before and after (Witch Trials, Slates, Perverted by Language, Wonderfull / Frightening, Nation's saving grace and, to my opinion the best one - Bend Sinister). The Soft Boys did reform for a couple of gigs around 1991-1992, but I sort of missed it, even though I was living in London at the time. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:55:05 -0400 (EDT) From: sam charrington Subject: a very long interview theres a very long interview with bruce & graham at: http://www.theavclub.com/index.html its all stuff you've read before but features some mildly exciting news in the last paragraph (news to me anyway) sam. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:10:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Joshua Subject: Re: a very long interview Damn! You beat me to it! - -Joshua On Thu, 11 May 2000, sam charrington wrote: > theres a very long interview with bruce & graham at: > > http://www.theavclub.com/index.html > > its all stuff you've read before but features some mildly exciting news in > the last paragraph (news to me anyway) > > sam. > > ______________________________________________ > FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com > Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > ___ ___ http://www.swingpad.com (Digital Art and Artisanship) - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:20:53 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: Americans and Marxism We American's would never run the Gang of Four out of the country for their Marxist ideology. The first amendment to our Constitution covers stuff like that. Sadly, most American's are thoroughly and completely unaware of the political content of music. If it's got a good beat and you can dance to it, or if it 'ROCKS' (said with full and complete sarcasm), it might be a big hit, even if it's just a musical adaptation of 'The Internationale'. I would like to think that most Americans who do recognize political dogma in music, i.e. Go4, Billy Bragg, Easterhouse, etc., almost universally left-wing BTW, are smart enough to ignore it. If anyone I knew got their political ideas from pop music, I'd have to laugh, then question their sanity. I've met a lot of musicians, and believe me the vast majority of them are no smarter than you or me. Getting anything other than emotional enjoyment (from happy to sad) from music is a sign of an impending Which brings up one of the funniest things in American popular music, Rage Against the Machine. A band full of well off young college graduates who never worked a day of 'real work' in their lives have dedicated themselves to bringing their message of Marxist/Lenninist/Maoist thought to the masses. Together they can 'Fight the Man'! My guess is that 95 out of 100 Rage Against the Machine fans couldn't tell you the difference between Communism, Socialism, and democratic/republican forms of government. We had an intern in our office who, when he wasn't wearing Phish t-shirts would wear his Rage Against the Machine t-shirt. You know, the one with Che' on it... He had no idea who Che' was, but he BOUGHT the shirt at Rage Against the Machine concert, and he paid $50 to get it, so it had to be cool. He had absolutely no idea about RaTM's political stances... they 'rocked', and that was enough for him. Getting back to Go4, I never saw the appeal in any of their music... but I'm glad that Dave Allen left the band to form Shriekback... They have a definite appeal for me! Cheers, Ray ( I don't get my ideas about religion from Sinead O'Connor either) Ciscon Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager Comark, Inc. In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 ** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. ** -----Original Message----- From: John Roberts [mailto:jarobert@dmu.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:34 AM To: A.J. Wells Cc: Alyce Ornella; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: theoldwiththenew > I wish we would see some more from the Gang Of Four... their view of the > world as a disorienting forest of images in which ones hopes and dreams are > used to hold the soul captive in the Market Of The Senses holds far more > true today than it did when they were in their heyday... but Gill/King > havent seemed to be able to tap into that thing in their recent records > including Shrikwrapped and Mall... I think they might be a bit too old to be > able to critique modern culture at this point... but there is still NO sound > in rock like Andy Gills guitar and probably will never be... I think I would > be less likely to want to see the GOF live than Wire, because their work was > sort of tied to that time and there is an element of protest that doesnt age > well... but I would give it a go see... What is it with Americans and Gang of Four? As devout Marxists I'd have thought you'd have had them run out of the country! 8-) Totally agree with the above: tho there protest doth seem a little dated you can't help finding At Home He Feels Like A Tourist, their homage to alienation, ironically comforting (does that make sense?). Try thinking Steve Albini's guitar style without the above Go4 track. its impossible. Now, can anyone explain to me just how gill got to produce RHChilli Peppers early album? RHCPs are not what I would call politically progressive - wiping your penis on a female journos face doesn't quite sit with maoism somehow. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:41:10 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: inertia tour >From: "Alyce Ornella" >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: inertia tour >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:48:51 CDT > >So, yeah...that's pretty awesome. >I agree that GO4's later stuff, Hard and then on, isn't good but >that doesn't take away from Entertainment being my second favorite >album ever, or make me want to see them any less. I saw the Gang of Four play with the Buzzcocks at Irving Plaza in NYC back in 1979. It was an amazing experience, one I still remember well these 20+ years. I was in the balcony during their set and the place was literally bouncing. I absolutely adored the first two Go4 albums ("What We All Want" is still a personal theme song) but thought they started to lose the thread through Songs of the Free and on. The comeback Mall was atrocious considering the selfstandard they had set. So, seeing bands 20 years past their peak is an iffy proposition at best. Normally you liked them for their innovation - which means that if they stay true to that ideal (copy:)) they're not going to do a "nostalgia" or simple greatest hits set. If they do, hey they're not 20-years olds anymore - it's tough to keep that same fire in your performance as when you're young and it's all still new. I also got to see them once at Danceteria in NYC (when it was still uptown) but one of the highlights of my life was when the band I was managing, Certain General opened for the Gang of Four at the Ritz in NYC in 1983. Our drummer, Marcy Saddy, used to be in a Canadian band the B Girls who had shared gigs with the Gang a coupla years back, was friendly with Hugo, and got the band the gig. It was such a rush to play to the packed house (I'd say 2000 or so) and be allowed (because the Gang were not into rock oneupmanship) to use the full power of the sound system (something New Order didn't grant Certain General when we opened for them) and then to get that great response from the house. I don't mind if I'll never get to see them again - because Entertainment never gets old to me. That said, I am so looking foward to seeing Wire in DC Saturday. I've seen them at CBGB, again back in the 70's, and the Ritz in the 80's. I was a little leary of this tour at first. I got to hear a new Pink Flag on a CD giveaway with a recent issue of The Wire, and it was alright - but not groundbreaking - the most exciting thing was that they were working together again - and who knows what could happen. Again I was leary to hear that they would be doing 70's stuff only - I didn't think that they could exceed their acheivements of the past. But I must say that the tour reporst that have been coming through this newsgroup have so whetted my appetite because it seems that Wire never ceases to suprise and even with selfproclaimed limits - they don;t stay within the box. So heres to a tight, powerful, blow me away experience. - Stephen G. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:46:23 -0500 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: Wire in Chicago last night Laurel and other Chicago Wire Fans, It was wonderful to meet you and Dan last night! Meeting other WireHeads meant that I didn't have to drag my wife to the show. She tolerates 'Kidney Bingos' and actually likes 'Madman's Honey', but she likes Wire's 'Drill' about as much as a dentists drill... I thank you, she thanks you! It was also a delight to meet Charles and his lovely wife. This is the guy that via WMO has supported my addiction to all things WIRE. As for a Chicago WireHead get together to view some of your Wire rarities, I'm all for it! There are others whose names I forget, but you were all very friendly and charming and it was a treat to meet and greet you all! Thanks, Ray Ciscon Remote Office LAN/WAN Support Manager Comark, Inc. In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 ** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. ** -----Original Message----- From: Pleaskillme@aol.com [mailto:Pleaskillme@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:27 AM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: Wire in Chicago last night Hiya, My name's Laurel - I'm not a list member, but I was lucky enough to meet some of you last night - I'm writing through my good friend Dan, aka Tube Disaster, etc I just wanted to say thank you for the warmth and good company last night - I'm terrible with names, please forgive me, or I'd say hello to each of you personally I was at the show with Dan, who flew in from Little Rock - who I'll leave the show review to, he and I tend to think pretty much the same and he's so much better at it than I am - we've known each other quite a while through Buzzcocks mostly - I'm born and raised in the Chicago area - my Wire connection is tenuous at best, not like all of you good people - my "young" man is from Manchester - the story goes, there was this little band called Manicured Noise - they went to a club in I think Sheffield or something, met with Wire and asked if they could support them - Wire said yes - it went on from there - my young man was acting manager of Manicured Noise, although not officially titled, until he got them hooked up with Linda, who he knew from somewhere, and who could do a better job for them with her connections in London - he did do two tours with Manicured Noise backing up Wire - his name is Joey, so named by Pete Shelley because of his remarkable likeness to said Ramone - but he can't say enough good things about Wire, and does so often - he was really bummed that he had to be out of town and miss the show & seeing Dan again - and now, from me telling him all about you, meeting the list members which brings me to, again, I'm horrible with names - Ray is it? the gentleman I was talking to about XL1? - go to www.headen.com where you can download the program to go with the music - there's also a little anecdote section where he tells about just being there with Pete and how it all came about so that's it - just wanted to say thanks for letting me participate and just being really nice, good people - the music was great, but the company was better - no offense to the band, they were splendid - and an especial thank you to Charles & the band for the kindness Laurel (hatsephsut@hotmail.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:50:42 EDT From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: Americans and Marxism >From: "Ciscon, Ray" >To: >Subject: Americans and Marxism >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:20:53 -0500 > >We American's would never run the Gang of Four out of the country for their >Marxist ideology. The first amendment to our Constitution covers stuff like >that. > >Sadly, most American's are thoroughly and completely unaware of the >political content of music. If it's got a good beat and you can dance to >it, >or if it 'ROCKS' (said with full and complete sarcasm), it might be a big > Back in the day, when i worked at NYRocker magazine, we did a couple of page photo and caption spread to document the Clash conquers suburbia phenomena that followed in the wake of should i stay or should i go and was demonstrating itself for the first time in the Bonds event. Question - What do you think of the Clash's politics? (Asked of a typical Long Island teenager) Answer - Politics? I dunno. What song is it on? I love american youth. Stephen G. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #130 *******************************