From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #123 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, May 8 2000 Volume 03 : Number 123 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Wire in SF [obie ] Re: FW: They've been touring for a while... [professor ned ] Wire Discussion Forum ["sean bowen" ] CHICAGO IDEAL COPYISTS ["webmaster" ] boston/revell/brave new waves/ and all that ["Patrick N. Bryant" ] Re: Wire Discussion Forum [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: josef k [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Wire Discussion Forum ["A.J. Wells" ] Re: They've been touring for a while... ["ian barrett" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #122 [BOURGEOISIE ] gilbertpossstenger - manchesterlondon [kevin eden ] RE: FW: They've been touring for a while... ["giluz" ] RE: FW: They've been touring for a while... ["giluz" ] Re: gilbertpossstenger - manchesterlondon ["Alyce Ornella" Subject: Re: Wire in SF <39104E2F.77DE@ix.netcom.com> <391060F5.72CDAC8F@grin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk I agree with the review, I did notice that Wire where playing all new instruments , guitars , etc., i just bet they didn't want to hassle with bringing them over from Europe. But it was a great sounding gig , they must have had a great sound check! In a footnote ,I saw Colin Newman at Amoeba records today, walking out as i was trying to find parking ..Damn! I certainly would have gotten an autograph! Brian Barnett wrote: > > Colin playing a Dan Electro whew. > > ajwells@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > Whew... what an exhilarating show!! Hopefully my ears will open up in > > another day or so... > > > > The Great American Music Hall is a fantastic place to see any band, Wire > > in particular... in Colins' words, its "amazingly roccoco" and smaller > > than tonights second SF venue, The Fillmore... I arrived partway into > > Matmos' set... they did some intriguing sonic exploration, and at times > > Graham and Bruce actually came out and listened to their set from the ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 09:25:24 -0600 From: professor ned Subject: Re: FW: They've been touring for a while... >-----Original Message----- >From: giluz [mailto:giluz@nettalk.com] >Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 1:28 PM >To: A.J. Wells >Subject: RE: They've been touring for a while... >The reason why electronics sound boring now is industry >related - it's just the same thing that happened with punk after its first >wave. It could just die off, or we might have a new electronics wave lurking >around the corner. However, this does not "justify" going back to guitar >music, because, so far, nothing new happened there either. By "new electronics" do you mean new gear (i.e. the burden is on the manufacturers to create something new and exciting) or do you mean a new wave of electronic music that will actually be interesting? I'm assuming the latter, but I just thought I'd ask... I find the whole "electronics is crap/boring/constraining/etc" debate all rather a non-issue - how can you really argue on empirical grounds that 10,000 bad bands with PowerBooks are worse or better than 10,000 R.E.M. clones? I think it's just as easy for a guitar act to fall into a simple 'rawk' formula as it if for synth-based folks to just dial up some presets and bounce away. ned ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:29:46 -0700 From: obie Subject: Re: expensive hobby I have never bought an Item , book,comic book or record , that arrived in the condition the seller claimed it would paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > > well i've been playing on ebay , dangerous to the old piggy bank i'm afraid. > > first i got (cheap) a 3-track us promo of he said "could you". 3 versions ; normal lp cut , us edit and german edit. the german version is much shorter and the rhythm track kicks in from the start. the us version is very different , proper played drums rather than the tinny drum machine. interesting disc , comes in a plain card sleeve with a red/white sticker on. i guess these 2 edits are unavailable elsewhere? > > but it gets worse. some guy put up a copy of the dominoe and not about to die bootleg lp's. i went in at the minimum on dominoe and got it , nobody else bidded. however , the natd went ballistic , some japanese guy bought it for $71 (ouch!). as you might have guessed , this bought another copy instantly onto the market and i won that for less than half the first one. and now yet another one is up there , it was at about $20 this morning if anyone's interested. so its beans on toast for me now , these 2 records better arrive on one piece....... p - -- ********************** Obie Sanders Systems administrator Spotlife INC obie@spotlife.com ********************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:19:18 +0100 From: "sean bowen" Subject: Wire Discussion Forum Hi, all IdealCopy subscribers ! I've only just recently joined, and I'm still getting to grips with = e-communication, so forgive me if I don't quite 'know the drill'. But it = seems to me that this Newsgroup has become flooded with mails about = other artistes, causing me to spend too much time 'housekeeping' mails = not directly relevant to Wire. I think we need to get more focussed, and = turn it into a Wire discussion forum. To start the ball rolling; to all who were at the Festival Hall in Feb : The 'all old stuff' set was a great trip down Memory Lane, but I for one was astonished. It must have been the first time Wire had ever played a set of anything less than 50 % new material ! Personally, I love the old songs, but I also love 'Manscape' and 'First Letter', and was looking forward to hearing what they could come up with next. Now I'm worried that they've decided they just can't write together any more, and the only thing to do is enjoy some (admittedly long overdue) reward for exploiting their growth in influence and recognition in recent years. For me, the 2 best moments were in the He Said set; the one with the video of the railway line, and the closing Lewis bass-less passion/rejection rant. What does anyone else think ? Am I in the minority ? Or just impatient ? P.S. Apart from 'Act of Persistence' (which sounds like a very distant cousin of 'Ally in Exile'), there was one Wire song I didn't recognise - possibly just after the interval. Anyone know what it was, and whether new, old, or reworked ? - Sean. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 16:47:53 -0500 From: "webmaster" Subject: CHICAGO IDEAL COPYISTS here's the scoop: 6 to 7pm - TINY LOUNGE (underneath the Addison Brown line station, at the corner of Addison and Lincoln, plenty of permit & free parking in the area) From there zu essen in the Southport area, 8pm to Showtime - THE GINGERMAN LOUNGE (on the corner of Clark and Grace, about one foot north of the Metro) Dont' forget Thursday is SILO at the Empty Bottle! charles / wmo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 17:51:31 EDT From: "Patrick N. Bryant" Subject: boston/revell/brave new waves/ and all that to all: fyi - article in sunday Boston Globe arts section about wire. favorable interview with lewis. check out boston.com (then go to boston globe section) website for more info, recently read a mention on this list to Brave New Waves radio show, because of Wire-related interview. As any border state liste member or canuck can attest, BNW is probably the best (that i've heard, and this includes BBC), most well-informed multi-media program inthe english language. its an overnight broadcast of experimental music (on the leftfield side of alternative, electronic, etc) with interviews with choreographers, filmmakers, writers, musicians, etc. as a culturally-claustrohobic teen in the detroit area, the show was a lifeline. If they have an audio stream, a weblisten is highly recommended. given his profligacy, mr spk has made some decent hollywood fare - check out the excerpts from the until the end of the world soundtrack; he's also made some anonymous crap. i once read that he was supposed to have releases on the classical EMI-Angel label, but could never track them down... finally (whew!); any reports from Wire merchandise at US shows, such as CDs? im having a difficult time tracking down side project releases (including Swim Team comp, HALO, etc) and was hoping that some material might be available stateside sincerely, patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 17:01:44 -0500 From: "webmaster" Subject: they've been touring for a while... >>in fact, it seems like a number of posts to this list are basically saying >>"isn't it amazing that Wire don't suck, considering that rock music is >>dead?" or "...considering that no other music since 1982 is any good?" So why hasn't anyone come back and said, "yeah, it was okay, but really not that exciting?" I think anyone that saw RFH and another gig, would probably agree that RFH wasn't that special a performance, though it was a great event. Is Wire this sacred thing that no one dare take a shot at? Wire are completely monochromatic in this reincarnation. It's like holding a picture up - and turning it sideways - it's only that thin. It works once. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 15:08:35 -0400 From: "A.J. Wells" Subject: Re: FW: They've been touring for a while... Yes its true, a thousand sots with Powerbooks are no different than a thousand REM clones with Rickenbackers... ultimately there is only so much substance in any artistic scene or era... there are usually only a few people who truly have something to say and the rest want to live the life that working in that world affords... but the ease with which someone can call themselves a "recording artist" today has gotten a bit ridiculous... at least those REM or Clash clones had to learn the three chords and at least on their records you can hear the human error inherent in what they are playing... and they had to bash their heads against the doors of the AR men and actually do gigs and build up some sort of rapport with each other... as opposed to the oppressively quantized landscape we have at the moment which promises complete freedom (and instant "publishing" of the results) but instead imposes a different sort of order... of course there will always be a couple of quirky nerds who manage to make the matrix work for them (Aphex, AE etc), but in general present day electronic composing tools are all designed for instant proficiency... and deadening sameness... only the most advanced techno geek can get these materials to work for him rather than against him... and of course there has always been a huge difference between musicians and producers and programmers... but those distinctions have recently completely disappeared... you get electronic artists who boast "I would never use a preset", and who spend months getting a single sound tweaked as they like it... can you imagine a guitarist saying "I would never use a preset"? That doesnt even enter into it... the guitarist gets on with his melodic ideas and thats that.. I mean you wouldnt expect painters to have to create the paint they use from scratch or a photographer to cook his own emulsions up... too much energy is wasted on finding a sound rather than doing something with a sound... the fact that so many electronic artists wear all of these hats when most cant even adequately handle one of them is one of the reasons for the huge amount of boring music out there... I havent seen one ad for an instrument that will "oscillate in completely unpredictable ways" as a guitar string will when struck by a hand or a pick... everything is designed to "allow users to explore new sonic vistas heretofore unimagined by mere mortals"... They dont call them The Power Of Limits for nothing, as we are all seeing firsthand at these Wire shows... this music is all the stronger for having few to zero options... - -----Original Message----- From: professor ned To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 4:09 PM Subject: Re: FW: They've been touring for a while... > >-----Original Message----- > >From: giluz [mailto:giluz@nettalk.com] > >Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 1:28 PM > >To: A.J. Wells > >Subject: RE: They've been touring for a while... > > > >The reason why electronics sound boring now is industry > >related - it's just the same thing that happened with punk after its first > >wave. It could just die off, or we might have a new electronics wave lurking > >around the corner. However, this does not "justify" going back to guitar > >music, because, so far, nothing new happened there either. > >By "new electronics" do you mean new gear (i.e. the burden is on the >manufacturers to >create something new and exciting) or do you mean a new wave of electronic >music >that will actually be interesting? I'm assuming the latter, but I just >thought I'd ask... > >I find the whole "electronics is crap/boring/constraining/etc" debate all >rather a >non-issue - how can you really argue on empirical grounds that 10,000 bad bands >with PowerBooks are worse or better than 10,000 R.E.M. clones? I think >it's just >as easy for a guitar act to fall into a simple 'rawk' formula as it if for >synth-based >folks to just dial up some presets and bounce away. > >ned > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:22:40 +0200 From: Trygve Mathiesen Subject: Wire's 154 gigs Ok, i've now compiled diff. info about the so-called 154 gigs that Wire's supposed to have before they recorded the third album. My problem is that I've counted 183 gigs. I know some of them may've been cancelled, but there's still to many, even if i just counts in the UK-gigs, it doesn't fit. The gig-list is at URL: http://w1.2227.telia.com/~u222700854/Wire154gigs.htm T - -- Trygve Mathiesen http://home.telia.no/ymstammen http://www.puls.no ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 18:21:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Wire Discussion Forum Sean, << I've only just recently joined, and I'm still getting to grips with = e-communication, so forgive me if I don't quite 'know the drill'. But it = seems to me that this Newsgroup has become flooded with mails about = other artistes, causing me to spend too much time 'housekeeping' mails = not directly relevant to Wire. I think we need to get more focussed, and = turn it into a Wire discussion forum. >> Sorry mate, but no. I personally have enjoyed the discussions about other groups and have no intention of indulging in them. Besides, the discussions often loop back to Wire. Also, bringing in other artisites is, I consider, a public service to the list. I have been spurred to listen to a number of other bands because of these discussions, and I hope some of the recommendations I have made about old/obscure bands may have been followed up and have brought enjoyment to others here. Bear in mind that much of the discussion has been about early 80s Brit bands, and that many of the list members are Americans in their 20s, who have probably never heard bands such as Crispy Ambulance or the Comsat Angels...but in all probability would enjoy the music. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 18:26:59 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: josef k Richard << Wow,so the Fire Engines Peel Sessions i have is thier whole show,huh. I never would have thought that. How long were the Lp's? I just have an early 7' by them and i can't remember the name right now,but probably from 81 0r 82. How long were they together and wh did they play as later on? >> Only one LP was made, called 'Lubricate your living room'. About 30mins long and designed as background music for doing your housework (honest!) There were three singles, including Get up and use me and Candy Skin. A Peel session was recorded. All this stuff was released on one CD a while back, but it might be hard to find. After they split Davey Henderson formed a band called Win (who released a few singles and at least one album - more commercial but still spiky) and then became The Nectarine No.9 (several albums, moire electronics, much less commercial). AFAIK he's still going under that name... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 15:23:01 -0400 From: "A.J. Wells" Subject: Re: Wire Discussion Forum Yes I love the tangents and get a chuckle knowing that there is someone else in this big bad world who has a Tunnelvision, Names, The Sound or even Shark Vegas record lurking somewhere deep in their basement... when you get Wire fans together you get people who have a pretty broad worldview and many fossils who have been around since the dawn of time... so get used to the tangents, because everything is a tangent - -----Original Message----- From: MarkBursa@aol.com To: sean.j.bowen@ukgateway.net ; idealcopy@smoe.org Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 6:23 PM Subject: Re: Wire Discussion Forum >Sean, > ><< I've only just recently joined, and I'm still getting to grips with = > e-communication, so forgive me if I don't quite 'know the drill'. But it = > seems to me that this Newsgroup has become flooded with mails about = > other artistes, causing me to spend too much time 'housekeeping' mails = > not directly relevant to Wire. I think we need to get more focussed, and = > turn it into a Wire discussion forum. >> > >Sorry mate, but no. I personally have enjoyed the discussions about other >groups and have no intention of indulging in them. Besides, the discussions >often loop back to Wire. > >Also, bringing in other artisites is, I consider, a public service to the >list. I have been spurred to listen to a number of other bands because of >these discussions, and I hope some of the recommendations I have made about >old/obscure bands may have been followed up and have brought enjoyment to >others here. Bear in mind that much of the discussion has been about early >80s Brit bands, and that many of the list members are Americans in their 20s, >who have probably never heard bands such as Crispy Ambulance or the Comsat >Angels...but in all probability would enjoy the music. > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 21:02:42 +0100 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... Ah Chrome! Now there's an outfit who hit either end of the quality scale in their time. And assuming you played anything after getting the Chrome box set out, how did it sound? Ian - ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Barnett To: fernando Cc: IdealCopy Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:16 PM Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... > Well all of this has made get out the Chrome box set. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 18:31:47 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Wire's 154 gigs << i've now compiled diff. info about the so-called 154 gigs that Wire's supposed to have before they recorded the third album. My problem is that I've counted 183 gigs. I know some of them may've been cancelled, but there's still to many, even if i just counts in the UK-gigs, it doesn't fit. The gig-list is at URL: http://w1.2227.telia.com/~u222700854/Wire154gigs.htm >> You're mising the point. 154 was released in 1979, while Wire were gigging extensively. So the 154 number was apparently chosen as the number of gigs they had done at the point the artwork was prepared. They carried on doing gigs long after that. There is a full gigography in Kevin Eden's Everybody Loves a History book. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 18:36:39 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: They've been touring for a while... AJ, Beautifully put. I was about to compose a similar rant, but you have put it perfectly. This also accounts for why some of the best electronic music has been produced by musicians who can also play traditional instruments, Wire being a prime example, and New Order another. Mark << Yes its true, a thousand sots with Powerbooks are no different than a thousand REM clones with Rickenbackers... ultimately there is only so much substance in any artistic scene or era... there are usually only a few people who truly have something to say and the rest want to live the life that working in that world affords... but the ease with which someone can call themselves a "recording artist" today has gotten a bit ridiculous... at least those REM or Clash clones had to learn the three chords and at least on their records you can hear the human error inherent in what they are playing... and they had to bash their heads against the doors of the AR men and actually do gigs and build up some sort of rapport with each other... as opposed to the oppressively quantized landscape we have at the moment which promises complete freedom (and instant "publishing" of the results) but instead imposes a different sort of order... of course there will always be a couple of quirky nerds who manage to make the matrix work for them (Aphex, AE etc), but in general present day electronic composing tools are all designed for instant proficiency... and deadening sameness... only the most advanced techno geek can get these materials to work for him rather than against him... and of course there has always been a huge difference between musicians and producers and programmers... but those distinctions have recently completely disappeared... you get electronic artists who boast "I would never use a preset", and who spend months getting a single sound tweaked as they like it... can you imagine a guitarist saying "I would never use a preset"? That doesnt even enter into it... the guitarist gets on with his melodic ideas and thats that.. I mean you wouldnt expect painters to have to create the paint they use from scratch or a photographer to cook his own emulsions up... too much energy is wasted on finding a sound rather than doing something with a sound... the fact that so many electronic artists wear all of these hats when most cant even adequately handle one of them is one of the reasons for the huge amount of boring music out there... I havent seen one ad for an instrument that will "oscillate in completely unpredictable ways" as a guitar string will when struck by a hand or a pick... everything is designed to "allow users to explore new sonic vistas heretofore unimagined by mere mortals"... They dont call them The Power Of Limits for nothing, as we are all seeing firsthand at these Wire shows... this music is all the stronger for having few to zero options... >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 15:41:02 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... Well an awfully like chrome, I'll get to disc 3 after John Cale's Paris 1919. ian barrett wrote: > Ah Chrome! Now there's an outfit who hit either end of the quality scale in > their time. > And assuming you played anything after getting the Chrome box set out, how > did it sound? > Ian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Barnett > To: fernando > Cc: IdealCopy > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:16 PM > Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... > > > Well all of this has made get out the Chrome box set. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 15:39:05 -0400 From: "A.J. Wells" Subject: Re: FW: They've been touring for a while... >AJ, > >Beautifully put. I was about to compose a similar rant, but you have put it >perfectly. > >This also accounts for why some of the best electronic music has been >produced by musicians who can also play traditional instruments, Wire being a >prime example, and New Order another. > >Mark Bernard said in 1982 "it doesnt matter if you are using a Fairlight or playing your song on a saw, its the NOTES you play that counts"... I dont know that that is always true... there are interesting records that are all about sound and nothing to do with notes, but it still holds generally true... Aj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 22:21:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: Wire in LA I just returned from the LA show on Thursday. Absolutely fantastic! The opening act was Black Hart. I'm not sure how to describe their music. They used acoustic guitars, trumpets, cellophane, and very delicate vocals. They definitely had something to say, but they had some trouble saying it on key. They started at about 9 PM and were finished by 9:45; supposedly they were playing another show in San Diego at 12:30 AM! So they had to leave immediately after their set. Wire came out at 10:15 with "Pink Flag". It was incredible. The "Third Day" CD doesn't do it justice. The set list was already posted. The crowd favorites were "Another The Letter" and "12XU" (which was the first encore). "He Knows" (the new song) was received with a confused silence. "40 Versions" has a new ending with Graham making some incredible noise on his bass. And "Drill", the final song of the show, was awesome. After Colin shouted "Could this be a drill", Graham burst into a mourning ritual of wailing. A notable omission was "Art of Persistance". Apparently it's undergoing some changes and isn't ready yet. As for the sound quality of the venue... Well, it was a bit disappointing. I thought they should have lowered the volume so that the sound wouldn't be so distorted. Plus there were some strange humming noises. Also, I nearly had my camera taken by some irritating bouncer. All in all, it's not a venue I care to return to. The next morning my friend and I went out for breakfast and bumped into the band having coffee! We spoke with Colin and Graham for a bit before they had to leave for their plane to Seattle. (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "I've been known to dabble." -007 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 22:31:00 -0700 (PDT) From: BOURGEOISIE Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #122 <> First of all, how can you say that you just want to see whatever they feel like playing? Will you accept anything they perform or release in the future just because of their past? Second, Wire have not yet proven that they don't suck (this time around). A body of new material will have to emerge before that can be decided. For me, Wire has always been a set of principles, a declaration of independence from the monotonous cycle of pop culture that repackages old achievements with new haircuts in tight pants for young audiences that can't remember the first time around. I expect Wire to soon resign themselves to stop looking back into the past and move into the future as they always have, creating new musical territory that will only be comprehended by our lazy pop culture in 5-10 years time after it's release. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 02:02:22 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: being sucked in again BOURGEOISIE said to aaron: >First of all, how can you say that you just want to see whatever they feel like >playing? Will you accept anything they perform or release in the future just >because >of their past? > >Second, Wire have not yet proven that they don't suck (this time around). A >body of >new material will have to emerge before that can be decided. > >For me, Wire has always been a set of principles, a declaration of >independence from >the monotonous cycle of pop culture that repackages old achievements with new >haircuts in tight pants for young audiences that can't remember the first time >around. I expect Wire to soon resign themselves to stop looking back into >the past >and move into the future as they always have, creating new musical territory >that >will only be comprehended by our lazy pop culture in 5-10 years time after >it's release. Does that mean that we can expect you to slag it off until a few years from now when you figure it out? ;-) Seriously, aaron's point was (I think) that Wire *does* have a track record of delivering the goods, and they've given him no reason to suspect that they won't this time 'round either. He's not expressing blind faith in Wire; rather, he's making a prediction based on his take of a considerable body of empirical evidence. But if he goes to the Boston show and thinks that the new-model Wire laid an egg, trust me, he will be more than willing to tell us so. And since when is recontextualizing your own material necessarily a creative dead end? First, it's not as though Wire has ever rehashed *anything* before -- this isn't the 4,700th time they've trotted out "the classics," y'know, this *is* a new endeavor for them. Second, I think our notion of reunions and revisiting the back catalog is too tainted by seeing the Stones, the Who, Pink Floyd/Roger Waters, and dozens of other artists trade on often-uninspired remakes of older material, doing umpteen "Our Last Tour Ever Maybe" outings in which songs are played exactly as they were twenty or thirty years ago. This isn't what Wire's doing *at all.* I can't think of anyone who's brought the same force and vitality to the task. It's only my opinion, sure, but I've seen this outfit three times in 2000, and I'm saying that they're doing is a quantum leap from what others have done in "reunion" circumstances. If the band keeps working together, sure, I'd be delighted if it resulted in a CHAIRS MISSING or IDEAL COPY for the 2000's. But let's not shortchange what the band is doing right now -- playing songs with a fire and explosiveness rarely seen in bands of any age or pedigree. In this reporter's opinion, yes, it can be said that the current Wire has already proven that they do *not* suck. :-) later, Miles, back in Nashville after seeing the "old men" play two smokin' shows in San Francisco ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 00:10:54 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: gilbertpossstenger - manchesterlondon gilbertpossstenger - manchesterlondon (wmo 16cd) release date: 30th may 2000 WMO announce their final release: a unique collaboration between Bruce Gilbert (Wire) and Robert Poss and Susan Stenger (both ex-Band of Susans).* The three parties playing on this CD need little introduction. Bruce is one of the founding members of 70's "art-rock" group Wire who released three albums before breaking up in 1980. He then collaborated with fellow Wire member Graham Lewis on a number of projects such as Dome, Cupol, P'o etc. Wire reformed in 1985 and released a further 4 albums before mutating into Wir for their final album in 1991. In February 2000 Wire reunited to reinvent themselves, yet again, by performing songs from their 25 year back catalogue. Bruce has also released a number of solo albums and been commissioned to write music for ballets, animation and more recently Channel Four TV commissions for Iain Sinclair and Chris Petit's 'The Falconer' (1999) and their forthcoming film on Michael Moorcock which will be broadcast later this year. Poss and Stenger were the founding members of New York "drone-rock" band Band of Susans. Both come from varying musical backgrounds: Poss played in punk/rock groups Tot Rocket and Western Eyes as well as performing with avant-guitarist Rhys Chatham and electronicist Nicolas Collins. Stenger, a classically trained flautist, was active in the downtown New York experimental music scene, specialising in the performance of works by John Cage, Phil Niblock, Christian Wolff, among others. She was also a member of Rhys Chatham's guitar army. In 1986 whilst putting together a new band Robert asked childhood friend Susan Stenger to play bass. Band of Susans was born. They went on to release five albums before disbanding in 1995. Bruce, Robert and Susan are no strangers to working together. BOS supported Wire on their 1988 US tour and Bruce had deputised for a member of the Band of Susans for one of their 1989 UK tour dates. On 11th and 12th October 1995, gilbertpossstenger appeared live at Manchester's Hacienda Club and London's Disobey Club. Both performances were recorded but the latter was unfortunately unusable owing to an onstage technical fault. However, Paul Smith (Blast First) took the Hacienda tapes into Mute Records "The Instrument" and made a dramatic remix. Both tracks are included on this CD. These performances include Bruce Gilbert on slide-guitar (a long-held ambition of his) and live manipulation/ processing, Robert Poss on guitar and Susan Stenger on bass and oscillators. They create an all-out sonic assault, underpinned by Susan's drone's and bass riffs, in which Bruce and Robert were given free reign to embellish and extemporise. Fans of Bruce Gilbert will be surprised at yet another string to his bow whilst fans of Band of Susans will be pleased to hear the two co-founders of that band performing together so sympathetically. *(released by arrangement with Mute Records/Blast First) TO ORDER SEND £12.00 CHEQUE / POSTAL ORDER / INTERNATIONAL MONEY ORDER PAYABLE TO: WMO LIMITED, PO BOX 112, STOCKPORT, CHESHIRE, SK3 9FD, UK (PLEASE CONSULT WITH WMO (US) FOR USA PRICE) ORDER NOW TO AVOID DISSAPOINTMENT ONLY 1000 COPIES AVAILABLE WORLDWIDE ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:03:59 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: FW: They've been touring for a while... > > By "new electronics" do you mean new gear (i.e. the burden is on the > manufacturers to > create something new and exciting) or do you mean a new wave of electronic > music > that will actually be interesting? I'm assuming the latter, but I just > thought I'd ask... > > I find the whole "electronics is crap/boring/constraining/etc" debate all > rather a > non-issue - how can you really argue on empirical grounds that > 10,000 bad bands > with PowerBooks are worse or better than 10,000 R.E.M. clones? I think > it's just > as easy for a guitar act to fall into a simple 'rawk' formula as it if for > synth-based > folks to just dial up some presets and bounce away. > > ned > > Of course I meant new ideas and not new gear - the whole electronic thing was basically an explosion of new ideas based on the new gear but not totally dependent on it. About electronics being boring - I think you're right there: Mainstream Rock is by far still more boring than mainstream electronics. The new aesthetics electronics brought into music - abstract rhythm oriented unhmelodic sounds - is still fresh (and even if not, it is far better and more interesting than the old rock 'n roll cliches). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:29:45 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: FW: They've been touring for a while... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of A.J. Wells > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 9:09 PM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org; professor ned > Subject: Re: FW: They've been touring for a while... > > > at least those REM or Clash clones had to learn the three chords and at least > on their records you can hear the human error inherent in what they are > playing... I totally disagree here: Remember that punk bands were considered as bad musicians because they could hardly play those same 3 chords, didn't do solos or didn't have a classical music education. The same attitude goes right back to the 50's when rock 'n roll began. Rock's revolutions always started by simplifying the technical side of playing and enabling non-musicians to participate. This happened everytime the current trend got too professional for amateurs. I don't care if people who make music can play any instruments - I do care if they make good music. You still have to be a musician to make even (good) electronic music, and that's even if you haven't played an analogue instrument in your entire life. It is true that electronics make it very easy for anyone to record any crap they want, but I don't think it's far easier than learning to play 3 chords on the guitar. Naff is naff and human error doesn't help anything if it sucks. Also, remember that our ears' sensitivities are changing with the music. Lots of punk bands, for example, were totally convinced that they really couldn't play very well (even though they did think it was to their advantage). This is because the convention of musicians back in the 70's was very technical, while since the 80's-90's the leading listening convention concerns itself with how the band "sits" together, what the combination of its members create. suddenly the old punk bands who couldn't play sound quite adept and professional. The same could happen with electronics - we just don't know what the new musical sensibilities are yet. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 03:27:39 CDT From: "Alyce Ornella" Subject: Re: gilbertpossstenger - manchesterlondon >Poss and Stenger were the founding members of New York >"drone-rock" band Band of Susans. Both come from >varying musical backgrounds: Poss played in punk/rock >groups Tot Rocket and Western Eyes as well as >performing with avant-guitarist Rhys Chatham and >electronicist Nicolas Collins. I was so exited to see this article posted, not simply because it's about Wire, but because Nicholas Collins is a teacher of mine....seriously, the man is a superstar. Not only is he awesome and smart and has been involved in so much, but he's so funny and personable....sigh. I sound like a little groupie but I think he's great. He makes slide guitars playable by voice and asked me if he smelled moldy cause he left his shirt in the washer too long. Alyce ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #123 *******************************