From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #122 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, May 7 2000 Volume 03 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: They've been touring for a while... ["giluz" ] Re: They've been touring for a while... ["A.J. Wells" ] FW: They've been touring for a while... ["giluz" ] Re: They've been touring for a while... [Wireviews ] Re: They've been touring for a while... [Brian Barnett ] Re: They've been touring for a while... [fernando Subject: RE: They've been touring for a while... Well, a lot has been said about that around the first impressions of the RFH gig. In an e-mail Colin sent me following the debate in this list, he claimed that Wire have never been and never will be a retro band, and that the choice of playing their oldest material came just because it sounded so contemporary, suddenly. And this is for me the real question - how come this guitar based stuff, which, except for its quality, should have sounded dated and old by now, sounds so fresh? Guitar based (and punk based) music has lost its new and revolutionary aspect for me throughout the late 80's and early 90's, and especially since Nirvana's breakthrough with Nevermind. The punk aesthetics has been co-opted into the mainstream, and the ideology of punk / indie labels of making music found a new target in the electronics field. The RFH gig struck me as being devoid of nostalgia or retro-ism, even though most of the stuff was quite old. This is what was so confusing about it. I think we'll just have to wait and see what happens, as I think Wire themselves do not know what this reunion will turn to. However, we should keep in mind that the reason that Wire sounds so good today is not because they or their music are timeless (there is no such thing), buit because, somehow, they sound right now. giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of BOURGEOISIE > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:53 AM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: They've been touring for a while... > > > Wire have been touring for a while now, so I think it is fair to > repeat the > question...is this just a reunion or is new material that > diverges from the > comfortable rock band aesthetic being created? I'm aware that > there is some new > material that is being performed, but what i've heard of it does > not diverge very > much from their old material. Does anyone think Wire can > re-invent themselves, given > Robert's no electronics restriction? > > Robert. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 02:02:37 -0400 From: "A.J. Wells" Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... I've been trying to figure out why they sounded to incredible to me as well... and why in the world that "old" music sounded to completely of the moment and vital... I've spent the last ten or so years being bored silly by guitar music (after growing up in the class of 77) and listening mostly to electronic or sample based music, which has seemed to point the way forward for so long... but all of a sudden the limitless potential (yeah, right) of electronics seems... oppressive? maybe not oppressive, but certainly not as liberating as it was when New Order and Wire and the Cabs were messing around with sequencers in 1980-83... seeing Matmos open for the band showed pretty clearly the difference between using sound and creating it... I think our ears have been deceived a bit by all of the disconnect between sound and the action that creates it... its great that anyone can call themselves a musician these days, but the difference between an artist and an editor was apparent that night... of course its interesting to take it all apart and play with it, but after awhile you lose the plot... All of a sudden I find that almost anything with a synthesizer or that awful matrix of the midi grid lurking in the background sounds silly and unimaginative... many of the most interesting electronic artists have already abandoned the stiff constraints of the Cubase environment (which will let you do ANYTHING that you can imagine, as long as you follow ITS rules), and have been playing things by hand or using basic sequencers to bring the human error back into the equation... and now Wire coming back and playing this pure noise, devoid of nostalgia because there was never any sentiment there to begin with, seems absolutely perfect... Of course all of this could change tomorrow... Aj - -----Original Message----- From: giluz To: IdealCopy Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 4:33 AM Subject: RE: They've been touring for a while... >Well, a lot has been said about that around the first impressions of the RFH >gig. In an e-mail Colin sent me following the debate in this list, he >claimed that Wire have never been and never will be a retro band, and that >the choice of playing their oldest material came just because it sounded so >contemporary, suddenly. And this is for me the real question - how come this >guitar based stuff, which, except for its quality, should have sounded dated >and old by now, sounds so fresh? Guitar based (and punk based) music has >lost its new and revolutionary aspect for me throughout the late 80's and >early 90's, and especially since Nirvana's breakthrough with Nevermind. The >punk aesthetics has been co-opted into the mainstream, and the ideology of >punk / indie labels of making music found a new target in the electronics >field. The RFH gig struck me as being devoid of nostalgia or retro-ism, even >though most of the stuff was quite old. This is what was so confusing about >it. I think we'll just have to wait and see what happens, as I think Wire >themselves do not know what this reunion will turn to. However, we should >keep in mind that the reason that Wire sounds so good today is not because >they or their music are timeless (there is no such thing), buit because, >somehow, they sound right now. > >giluz > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org >> [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of BOURGEOISIE >> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:53 AM >> To: idealcopy@smoe.org >> Subject: They've been touring for a while... >> >> >> Wire have been touring for a while now, so I think it is fair to >> repeat the >> question...is this just a reunion or is new material that >> diverges from the >> comfortable rock band aesthetic being created? I'm aware that >> there is some new >> material that is being performed, but what i've heard of it does >> not diverge very >> much from their old material. Does anyone think Wire can >> re-invent themselves, given >> Robert's no electronics restriction? >> >> Robert. >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. >> http://im.yahoo.com/ >> > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 11:25:38 +0200 From: Trygve Mathiesen Subject: Wire-gigs Hello, I'm new on this list. I've listened to Wire since the 'Live At The Roxy WC2' -days. My favourite Wire-album is undoubtably 'ChairsMissing'. I'm trying to track a live gig-guide for the famous first '154' Wire-gigs. Hope someone on this list can help me. So far I've got: 160377 London, The Roxy Club 010477 London, The Roxy Club 000077 London, Marquee Club (with The Saints) 001177 Newcastle, City Hall 000077 ? (with Bethnal) 000077 London, Nashville 001277 Newcastle, Guildhall 270178 London, College of Fashion (with The Banshees) 280178 Coventry, Mr. George's 310178 Plymouth, Fiesta Suite 010278 Bristol, Granary 020278 London, Marquee Club 030278 Liverpool, Eric's 050278 Middlesborough, The Crypt 060278 Doncaster, Outlook 080278 Nottingham, Sandpiper 050578 Wolverhampton, La Fayette 060578 Liverpool, Eric's 070578 Manchester, Mayflower Club 080578 Doncaster, Outlook Club Mid-78 New York 161078 Plymouth, Woods Centre 171078 Penzance, Guildhall 181078 Exeter, Routes 191078 Coventry, Lanchester Polytechnic 231078 Nottingham, Sandpiper 241078 Leicester, University 251078 Bradford, University 261078 Sheffield, University (Limit?) 271078 Middlesborough, Rock Garden (with Manufactured Noise) 281078 Huddersfield, Polytechnic (with Manufactured Noise) 161178 London, The Venue 171178 Harrow, college of Higher Education (with Screens) 201178 Nottingham, Sandpiper 221178 London, Marquee Club 231178 London, Marquee Club 190279 Barnstaple, Queen Hall 200279 Plumouth, Metro 210279 Newport, Stowaway Club 220279 Birmingham, Barbarellas 230279 Manchester, The Factory CANCELLED 240279 Liverpool, Eric's CANCELLED 020379 Scarborough, Penthouse CANCELLED 030379 Sheffield, University CANCELLED Gigs CANCELLED to support Roxy Music on a 16-gigs tour in Germany 230679 Manchester, The Factory 250679 Nottingham, Tiffany's 280679 Birmingham, Barbarellas (Cancelled?) 300679 Aylesbury, Friars (Cancelled?) 010779 Statford, Top of The World 020779 Chester, Smartyz 030779 Hull, Tiffany's 040779 Newport, Sowaway (Cancelled?) 050779 Scarborough, Penthouse 070779 Liverpool, Eric's - -- Trygve Mathiesen http://home.telia.no/ymstammen http://www.puls.no ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 13:28:17 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: FW: They've been touring for a while... - -----Original Message----- From: giluz [mailto:giluz@nettalk.com] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 1:28 PM To: A.J. Wells Subject: RE: They've been touring for a while... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of A.J. Wells > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:03 AM > To: giluz; IdealCopy > Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... > > > All of a sudden I find that almost anything with a synthesizer or > that awful > matrix of the midi grid lurking in the background sounds silly and > unimaginative... many of the most interesting electronic artists have > already abandoned the stiff constraints of the Cubase environment (which > will let you do ANYTHING that you can imagine, as long as you follow ITS > rules), and have been playing things by hand or using basic sequencers to > bring the human error back into the equation... Well, I disagree here - MIDI, cubase and all that stuff are just tools and it's people who make the difference. I think what happened is that we got over being amazed at what these tools can do, and are now focusing more on what people actually make using them. From personal experience, any tool, including Cubase, can be used not as it was intented, thus making it far more interesting and adventurous. Good examples could be the electric guitar, which was designed to be just an amplified acoustic guitar, or the the Roland synth-guitar - a representative from Roland came to view King Crimson in the early 80's and was amazed by the way Fripp played their synth-guitar, saying that they didn't mean it to be used that way when they designed it. The reason why electronics sound boring now is industry related - it's just the same thing that happened with punk after its first wave. It could just die off, or we might have a new electronics wave lurking around the corner. However, this does not "justify" going back to guitar music, because, so far, nothing new happened there either. > and now Wire coming back and > playing this pure noise, devoid of nostalgia because there was never any > sentiment there to begin with, seems absolutely perfect... > That's very true - I've always thought of Wire as having that same cold ironical unsentimental view that distinguish Stanley Kubrick's films from others. That might offer an explanation to what's going on here and why it doesn't sound retro. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 08:22:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... wrote: > Wire have been touring for a while now, so I think > it is fair to repeat the > question...is this just a reunion or is new material > that diverges from the > comfortable rock band aesthetic being created? That depends on who you believe. As far as I gather new material *may* occur during the summer, depending on such practical things as inspiration and time constraints (remember Graham lives in Sweden now and so cannot hang around the UK all the time jamming with Wire). > much from their old material. Does anyone think Wire > can re-invent themselves, given > Robert's no electronics restriction? Again, I'm not entirely sure where this "no electronics restriction" came from. Sure, /initially/ it was decided to go for the guitar/bass/drums/vox line-up, but this was due to the fact that it was the most practical thing to do. Had Wire gone down the electronics route, I doubt even RFH would have happened (or been that good if it did). The current line-up is far more immediate to get going and jamming with, but that doesn't mean that's the be all and end all of the current Wire. Also, I think if Wire is to be a prolonged project electronics will return in some form. However, Robert didn't have any problems with electronics per se anyway; he got pissed off when the drums were *completely* excluded, even from the live shows. These days, of course, that isn't a problem -- witness Silo on Swim~, who use samples of live drumming on the album, then do a combination of sequenced and live elements for performing. Craig. Wireviews. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 09:57:43 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... There ironic twist on subtlety is the key here, again they are mocking modern society as always. "A.J. Wells" wrote: > I've been trying to figure out why they sounded to incredible to me as > well... and why in the world that "old" music sounded to completely of the > moment and vital... I've spent the last ten or so years being bored silly by > guitar music (after growing up in the class of 77) and listening mostly to > electronic or sample based music, which has seemed to point the way forward > for so long... but all of a sudden the limitless potential (yeah, right) of > electronics seems... oppressive? maybe not oppressive, but certainly not as > liberating as it was when New Order and Wire and the Cabs were messing > around with sequencers in 1980-83... seeing Matmos open for the band showed > pretty clearly the difference between using sound and creating it... I think > our ears have been deceived a bit by all of the disconnect between sound and > the action that creates it... its great that anyone can call themselves a > musician these days, but the difference between an artist and an editor was > apparent that night... of course its interesting to take it all apart and > play with it, but after awhile you lose the plot... > > All of a sudden I find that almost anything with a synthesizer or that awful > matrix of the midi grid lurking in the background sounds silly and > unimaginative... many of the most interesting electronic artists have > already abandoned the stiff constraints of the Cubase environment (which > will let you do ANYTHING that you can imagine, as long as you follow ITS > rules), and have been playing things by hand or using basic sequencers to > bring the human error back into the equation... and now Wire coming back and > playing this pure noise, devoid of nostalgia because there was never any > sentiment there to begin with, seems absolutely perfect... > > Of course all of this could change tomorrow... > > Aj > > -----Original Message----- > From: giluz > To: IdealCopy > Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 4:33 AM > Subject: RE: They've been touring for a while... > > >Well, a lot has been said about that around the first impressions of the > RFH > >gig. In an e-mail Colin sent me following the debate in this list, he > >claimed that Wire have never been and never will be a retro band, and that > >the choice of playing their oldest material came just because it sounded so > >contemporary, suddenly. And this is for me the real question - how come > this > >guitar based stuff, which, except for its quality, should have sounded > dated > >and old by now, sounds so fresh? Guitar based (and punk based) music has > >lost its new and revolutionary aspect for me throughout the late 80's and > >early 90's, and especially since Nirvana's breakthrough with Nevermind. The > >punk aesthetics has been co-opted into the mainstream, and the ideology of > >punk / indie labels of making music found a new target in the electronics > >field. The RFH gig struck me as being devoid of nostalgia or retro-ism, > even > >though most of the stuff was quite old. This is what was so confusing about > >it. I think we'll just have to wait and see what happens, as I think Wire > >themselves do not know what this reunion will turn to. However, we should > >keep in mind that the reason that Wire sounds so good today is not because > >they or their music are timeless (there is no such thing), buit because, > >somehow, they sound right now. > > > >giluz > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > >> [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of BOURGEOISIE > >> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:53 AM > >> To: idealcopy@smoe.org > >> Subject: They've been touring for a while... > >> > >> > >> Wire have been touring for a while now, so I think it is fair to > >> repeat the > >> question...is this just a reunion or is new material that > >> diverges from the > >> comfortable rock band aesthetic being created? I'm aware that > >> there is some new > >> material that is being performed, but what i've heard of it does > >> not diverge very > >> much from their old material. Does anyone think Wire can > >> re-invent themselves, given > >> Robert's no electronics restriction? > >> > >> Robert. > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > >> http://im.yahoo.com/ > >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:59:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... On Sat, 6 May 2000, BOURGEOISIE wrote: > Does anyone think Wire can re-invent themselves, given Robert's no > electronics restriction? what an odd question. if i thought that the only way they could possibly re-invent themselves was by using one particular sort of equipment, i wouldn't have much hope for their future anyway. in fact, it seems like a number of posts to this list are basically saying "isn't it amazing that Wire don't suck, considering that rock music is dead?" or "...considering that no other music since 1982 is any good?" or "...considering that they have deigned to play their old songs?" or what have you. though i respect Wire for their desire to innovate, i think it's also important to remember that they've never become SO concerned with destroying the past that they became paralyzed by their inability to crack their own skulls open and forget every note of music they'd ever written before. well, i am not amazed that Wire don't suck; they've rarely let me down in the past and at this point i am more interested in seeing whatever these four remarkable artists feel like doing today than in seeing whether they can adhere to a set of principles that i like. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 13:06:31 -0400 From: Joe Pino Subject: DC show Hi all, We're driving down from Pittsburgh for the DC show next Saturday - anyone from the area have tips on the venue i.e. parking, posted start time vs. actual start time, etc. Due to work and the distance of the drive (not to mention the fact that a Million Moms are coming into DC to march on the White House the next day), we will probably just make the show so any info would help. Thanks in advance. Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:17:07 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... At 2:02 AM -0400 5/7/00, A.J. Wells wrote: >I've been trying to figure out why they sounded to incredible to me as >well... and why in the world that "old" music sounded to completely of the >moment and vital... I've spent the last ten or so years being bored silly by >guitar music (after growing up in the class of 77) and listening mostly to >electronic or sample based music, which has seemed to point the way forward >for so long... but all of a sudden the limitless potential (yeah, right) of >electronics seems... oppressive? Hard to say ... but it seems to me that good musicians will keep on changing and re-visit what they know. I am not sure to blame the medium.... may be in the same way that people gave up on red-LED watches after they tried all variants and preferred the analog display... in some ways, the Wire shows has me interested in the TheThe show coming up, as he too has gone the way of basics. > maybe not oppressive, but certainly not as >liberating as it was when New Order and Wire and the Cabs were messing >around with sequencers in 1980-83... Perhaps because of the naivete on the part of these bands and the fact that they were used to enhance what they were trying to do as opposed to dictating what they could do. > seeing Matmos open for the band showed >pretty clearly the difference between using sound and creating it... Yes, and no... perhaps Matmos is endemic of the problem with today's electronic music... but yet, we have the good examples of Massive Attack and Thievery Corp on what todays electronics allows us to do -- even if I am clueless as to what it is.. >I think >our ears have been deceived a bit by all of the disconnect between sound and >the action that creates it... its great that anyone can call themselves a >musician these days, but the difference between an artist and an editor was >apparent that night... of course its interesting to take it all apart and >play with it, but after awhile you lose the plot... I am not sure about being deceived as it is our interest in something new and trying to justify it as something credible. There is much in electronic music that is quite good and other that is just fun, and requires no justification. Wire, NewOrder and the Cabs benefit from giving it a use at an early stage, and never letting it determine what they can do -- perhaps with some failures in the later days of NewOrder -- but it is definitely also part of the mantra from where they originated, meaning, the punk attitude. cheers! - -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 12:16:26 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: They've been touring for a while... Well all of this has made get out the Chrome box set. fernando wrote: > At 2:02 AM -0400 5/7/00, A.J. Wells wrote: > >I've been trying to figure out why they sounded to incredible to me as > >well... and why in the world that "old" music sounded to completely of the > >moment and vital... I've spent the last ten or so years being bored silly by > >guitar music (after growing up in the class of 77) and listening mostly to > >electronic or sample based music, which has seemed to point the way forward > >for so long... but all of a sudden the limitless potential (yeah, right) of > >electronics seems... oppressive? > > Hard to say ... but it seems to me that good musicians will keep on changing > and re-visit what they know. I am not sure to blame the medium.... may be > in the same way that people gave up on red-LED watches after they tried > all variants and preferred the analog display... in some ways, the Wire shows > has me interested in the TheThe show coming up, as he too has gone the way > of basics. > > > maybe not oppressive, but certainly not as > >liberating as it was when New Order and Wire and the Cabs were messing > >around with sequencers in 1980-83... > > Perhaps because of the naivete on the part of these bands and the fact that > they were used to enhance what they were trying to do as opposed to dictating > what they could do. > > > seeing Matmos open for the band showed > >pretty clearly the difference between using sound and creating it... > > Yes, and no... perhaps Matmos is endemic of the problem with today's > electronic music... but yet, we have the good examples of Massive Attack > and Thievery Corp on what todays electronics allows us to do -- even > if I am clueless as to what it is.. > > >I think > >our ears have been deceived a bit by all of the disconnect between sound and > >the action that creates it... its great that anyone can call themselves a > >musician these days, but the difference between an artist and an editor was > >apparent that night... of course its interesting to take it all apart and > >play with it, but after awhile you lose the plot... > > I am not sure about being deceived as it is our interest in something new > and trying to justify it as something credible. There is much in electronic > music that is quite good and other that is just fun, and requires no > justification. > Wire, NewOrder and the Cabs benefit from giving it a use at an early stage, > and never letting it determine what they can do -- perhaps with some failures > in the later days of NewOrder -- but it is definitely also part of the mantra > from where they originated, meaning, the punk attitude. > > cheers! > -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 16:06:43 -0400 (EDT) From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: [none] 862568D6.0076E959 ; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:38:49 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ANDERSEN CONSULTING To: idealcopy@smoe.org Message-ID: <862568D6.0076E843.00@amrhm1104.ac.com> Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:45:54 -0500 Subject: Ex-Ex-Lion Tamer Interviews Wire Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk The real live Wire May 5, 2000 BY JIM DeROGATIS POP MUSIC CRITIC Brian Eno once said of the Velvet Underground that although the group didn't sell a lot of records in its time, everyone who bought one went out and started a band. Through the '80s and into the '90s, the same could be said of Wire. The musicians have been cited as influences by Sonic Youth, the Feelies, Husker Du, Ministry, the Minutemen and countless others. They've been covered by R.E.M. ("Strange"), Big Black ("Heartbeat") and My Bloody Valentine ("Map Reference"); slotted into the soundtrack of "The Silence of the Lambs," and ripped off wholesale by the likes of Elastica and Blur. Forming the band in the wake of the Sex Pistols during the original punk explosion, guitarist-vocalist Colin Newman, bassist-lyricist Graham Lewis, guitarist Bruce Gilbert and drummer Robert Gotobed released three extraordinarily diverse and groundbreaking albums from 1977 to '79: "Pink Flag," "Chairs Missing" and "154." And then they broke up--for a time. Wire first reconvened in 1986 and toured the States for the first time in '87, but it refused to play its most heralded material. The musicians preferred to move forward, performing new songs from the "Snakedrill" EP and "The Ideal Copy" album. But they didn't ignore their past--instead, they hired a young cover band from New Jersey. The Ex-Lion Tamers opened every show on the monthlong tour by performing the 21-song "Pink Flag" album in order in its entirety--part homage, part postmodern prank. (In interviews, Wire said the 'Tamers were the only band that had ever influenced them.) I know because I happen to have been the drummer for that group. In addition to forging some lasting friendships, the experience afforded me a front-row seat with unprecedented insight into how one of the most significant rock bands of the last two decades actually operated. It's for this reason that I don't feel compromised in writing about them now that the members of Wire are back for round three and another U.S. tour, performing together for the first time since 1990. What's surprising is that this time they're playing material from every era of the band, returning to what they have derisively called "the beat combo" of guitars, bass and drums after spending the past decade on various electronic, ambient and DJ projects (all except for Gotobed, who became an organic farmer). This is a unique group of four extremely smart, opinionated and strong-willed individuals, as you'll see from the answers below, and the members all have different explanations for the current reunion. I posed exactly the same questions to each of them, and they all answered separately via e-mail. Q.To quote "12XU"--"all right, here it is, again." Why, and why now? *Colin Newman:This can be answered in two ways; one is particular to Wire, and the other more relevant to the prevailing artistic climate. In pure Wire terms, there are periods when the reasons for doing Wire outweigh the reasons for not doing it. Although there are practical concerns, fundamentally these reasons are artistic and relate to an interest in doing "that thing" with those people. There's no comeback agenda and no record company underwriting it. I do it because it could be fun and because it represents an "itch that can't be scratched in any other way." In terms of the general artistic climate, there has been a move (at least in the U.K. anyway) in the last few years toward a more "played" aesthetic and actual live performance. In many ways, bands like Chicago's Tortoise have been very influential in this. This relates more to a crowd who have moved forward from the electronic scene, rather than something that relates to the past. This has created a more healthy climate for Wire to take the form they are currently taking. It would have been much more difficult to do this 10 years ago. *Graham Lewis: First, we did in fact congregate for the purposes of marking the 50th birthday of the Gilbert in 1996--a secret performance to inaugurate the commencement of the building of a club on the Southbank site. The club subsequently was not built, but communications were reopened between the members of Wire. My second daughter timed her arrival perfectly, being born on Bruce's birthday. A year later, Gareth Jones, producer of two Wire Mute albums, asked Colin, Bruce and myself to play guitars with the object of realizing a remix for Erasure [Figures in Crumbs]. None of us had played guitars for years, but the harmelodic chemistry and ease of execution were apparent after two days. We managed to realize the four-part "Vince Composition" into one shifting mesh. The ability to work together, producing a particular sound picture, I think explains the "why?" part of your question. The "why now?" is in some way explained previously, but the triggers were added to by an invitation from [Mute Records founder] Daniel Miller to take part in his "Mini-Meltdown Festival" on the Southbank in '99, which Robert declined. However, it stimulated the debate as to "Could there be a Wire?" I'm sure me stating emphatically that there was no need for "it" at all, six months earlier in an interview, further increased the possibility. When the invitation was extended by the Southbank for Wire to play the Royal Festival Hall, and curate the entire evening, with a fee that would enable us to rehearse extensively and produce the event independently of any outside interference (no record companies, etc.), instinctively I said "Yes!" The subsequent meetings with Robert, Colin and Bruce in London were extremely direct and clear; whatever was to be attempted should consider all of our previous compositions (including "12XU") plus that which could be realized from new text which I had written. Above all, the pro cess would be fun . . . learn to play again from scratch in two weeks and present another version of Wire. A challenge. *Bruce Gilbert: Why? We were asked. I liked the idea of the context--given that we would have to approach it in a retrospective manner, which was practical, and of course playing the old things was always something we'd avoided and therefore something we should investigate. The now of it is a little hard to answer. I think it is a kind of instinct. *Robert Gotobed: There is still enthusiasm from inside the group and outside. I feel there is an indefinable bond between the four members, and a stage is the most likely place that bond can be. It is also the outlet for my drumming work. *Q.What does each of you bring to the group? Can you briefly sketch for me the others' roles as you see them? *Colin Newman: I try to bring organizational skills both in the making of the music and in other functions of the band. Bruce's role is more of a savant and philosopher. Graham's concerns are tied a lot to meaning. Robert is very practical. *Graham Lewis: Robert--drums; Colin--text memory and guitar; Bruce--tone guitar; Graham--bass and new text. *Bruce Gilbert: This time it is harder to answer a question like that--there has always been a kind of swapping of roles and defining those roles is not something we have spent time on. At present it is more about being collectively cohesive in order to achieve realistic goals rather than pushing the creative pace, etc. *Robert Gotobed:Bruce--ideas, planning, songs, interesting noises; Colin--official skills, tunes; Graham--ideas, words. *Q.I hold that nostalgia is the most insidious corruptor of great rock 'n' roll (or art in general, if you gentlemen are still rejecting the "rock" tag). Wire has always taken a strong stance against wallowing in the past. How then does the retrospective nature of the current set list fit with that? *Colin Newman: For me this is all tied up with the first question. In Wire terms it is of course a novelty to play older material. Our refusal to do so in the past had less to do with an obdurate refutation of our own accomplishments and more to do with the fact that we are unlikely to have brought enough conviction to the material to make it "new" again. Enough time has now elapsed for the pieces to be a challenge and it is for sure that we are not in the re-creation or nostalgia business. People should be aware that there is a finite period during which we will be able to present this material with enough conviction to satisfy our own exacting demands. It also has to be said that the older material is somehow suffused with the spirit of the age in which it is being performed. I'm not able to be objective about how subtle that effect is, but it certainly doesn't feel like "old" material. In fact people have commented on how "fresh" and somewhat contemporary we sound. *Graham Lewis: This is the only Wire retrospective. *Bruce Gilbert: I felt no nostalgia for any of the items we are performing--for me this is a series of presentations of retrospective exhibits. In the process of executing these items, I hope that something unexpected will happen. It's still a sculpture, Jim. *Robert Gotobed: For Wire, this is radical. *Q.About rock 'n' roll: Three of you were emphatic about the "beat combo" having run its course. I never understood that; it always seemed to me that if that was a given in how Wire was to be defined, why not do "an Eno" (a la the Oblique Strategies) and make it a creative challenge? You know: "If drums are to be part of the mix, how much can we warp everything around them?" In any event, have you resolved this matter of electronic vs. organic rhythms? *Colin Newman: It is a point of fact that in terms of general artistic development, the United States lags many years behind the United Kingdom. This despite the fact that it is very often American artists who spark new trends and directions. It just happens that so often it's the Brits who sell your own music back to you. I don't really have an answer to your failure to understand why or why not to pursue a particular direction due to your cultural inadequacy. The drums vs. electronic debate is so outmoded and irrelevant to anything that is going on now in art that we may as well be talking about rock 'n' roll vs. jazz. For God's sake grow up! *Graham Lewis: Personally, I thought all of the recordings we made at Mute addressed the "beat combo" problem. Listen to "The Drill" again. As to the organic-electronic rhythm, I have no problem. Check out my [current solo] work . . . I believe in "different" rather than "vs." The discussion in the late '80s within Wire was of its time. I certainly believed we could have pushed the envelope further. As to the future, rhythmically, no possibilities exist for nostalgia, given the freedom the individuals have worked towards. However, organic drums sound like. . .? *Bruce Gilbert: As long as Rob is keen to play acoustic drums, we have to work around that--the beat combo approach. I don't have to resolve anything; learning to play the guitar again has been fascinating and laborious, but it always was. I don't think any of us entertain doing THIS version of Wire for very long. *Robert Gotobed: Still thinking on that one. *Q.Since you began your career by "cocking a snoot" at the history of rock 'n' roll on "Pink Flag" and spent much of the rest of it trying to explode the bloated carcass of the same, where does Wire now fit in the grand scheme of things, popular-music-wise? *Colin Newman: Up its ar- -. *Graham Lewis: The Beatles, the Velvet Underground. . . *Bruce Gilbert: Come on, Jim. You know how it works: All we are doing is revisiting the scene of the crime. Of course it is interesting to be called traitors/heroes by maggots still feeding of the carcass. *Robert Gotobed: No answer given. Jim DeRogatis co-hosts "Sound Opinions" from 10 p.m. to midnight Tuesdays Tuesday on WXRT-FM (93.1). *** Wire, Seam * 10 p.m. Wednesday * Metro, 3730 N. Clark * Tickets, $20 * (773) 549-0203 *** * *WIRED *FOR *SOUNDS Here is Wire's set list from the first major show of its current incarnation at London's Royal Festival Hall on Feb. 26: * "Pink Flag" * "Silk Skin Paws" * "40 Versions" * "Boiling Boy" * "Art of Persistence" * "Lowdown' * "Madman's Honey" * "Advantage in Height" * "htbt" * "He Knows" * "Being Sucked in Again" * "Strange" * "A Serious of Snakes" * "Another Time" * "Mercy" * "2 People in a Room" * "12XU" Jim DeRogatis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 16:06:56 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [none] [212.111.132.3]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with ESMTP id QAA19842 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 16:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.111.160.113] (helo=oemcomputer) by retort.sout.netline.net.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 12mje1-0007vp-00 for idealcopy@smoe.org; Tue, 02 May 2000 21:51:49 +0100 Message-ID: <006101bfb478$8360d620$71a06fd4@oemcomputer> From: "tox" To: Subject: Re: josef k Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:45:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk - -----Original Message----- From: tube disaster To: Ideal Copy Mailing list Date: 01 May 2000 22:39 Subject: josef k >*sigh* Just what I needed -- even more reason to ignore *today's* music as >much as possible. Damn. Not that I'm going to waste any time getting to Best >Buy to pick up the new Supergrass for $6.99, but I'll be happy if 2 songs on >it stick to my brain, as their first 2 albums were a little too fluffy to >manage even that ... > You should find the new Supergrass just a bit less fluffy than previous - I have all 3 albums and the latest shows a distinctly more mature feel - still one or two examples of the obvious pop songs from before, but on the whole, I find this is more listenable right through as a complete work. (IMHO of course) BobS ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #122 *******************************