From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #111 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, April 26 2000 Volume 03 : Number 111 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) [Mark Short ] Re:factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) [Creatured ] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #110 ["Robert Jazz" ] Re[2]: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:50:01 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) tube disaster wrote: > > Speaking of which, I could probably find this out myself with a modicum of > research, but I've got to go repair to bed ASAP -- anyone know whether the > first U'vox was the first album that Eno ever produced (except perhaps for > his own projects), as I speculated might be the case a few days ago in an > e-mail to the above miscreant? I don't think Ultravox was Eno's first gig in the producer's chair. He produced the first two Bob Calvert albums around 1974/75, and I imagine that first Ultravox album came out in 1977. Eno also gets some sort of production credit on Genesis' "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway", which is pre-77. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:17:40 +0100 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: 7" / LP's Two things - firstly the Throbbing Gristle "briefcase" contained 24 sixty minute cassettes. If you bought it when it came out, you got tapes 1 to 24. As time went by, the earlier tapes were replaced by newer ones. The best (?) bits of these can be found on the Throbbing Gristle live set, put out by mute in a 4 CD box set (still available as individual CD's). When is an album not an album? I have a recently re-released piece of 7" vinyl (Mute again), by NON. It contains one track on one side (approx. 5 minutes of silence), and 17 tracks on the other! Admittedly, the tracks are all locked groove tracks which last for just one revolution of the record, and repeat over and over until the stylus is removed and placed into another groove. But this surely must be classed as a long playing record, as it plays forever (until you can bear it no more!). And the price tag of £10 also indicates that it's an LP! Paul KW ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:54:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: Re:factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) THE BOX Are great! I;ve been wanting to get a copy of thier Ole Style Dropdown 12" EP or other versions. I have thier live album with old Style Dropdown on it,but the 12" is excellent. Does anyone want to trade Old Style for the Live album? - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Dan, > > << What did the VeeVV (if I'm remembering the name correctly) stuff > sound > like? > I remember the letter from a band member in the Offense Newsletter > (the main > zine to which I contributed stuff in the early '80s) relating the > name-(&, I > guess, direction-)change, though for the longest time I mistakenly > thought > that band included refugees from Clock DVA instead ... guess that > was The > Box, though. >> > > VeeVV sounded totally unlike Tunnelvision - a sort of industrial funk > > direction (a bit like Chakk, if you remember them). VeeVV was a sort > of > 'merger' of two bands - Chris and Ian from TVN plus three guys from a > band > called Bossanova, which was a sort of punk-funk band. The fronmt man > from > Bossanova was a guy called Mark Ormerod who'd been in a lot of > Blackpool punk > bands and he was the singer in VeeVV - Chris who had been vocalist in > TVN > just played guitar. So while LTM includes VeeVV as part of he > Tunnelvison > story on the web page the bands couldn't have been further apart in > terms of > sound.... > > The Box were good too - basically the original ClockDVA minus Adi > Newton. > > 'Thirst' by Clock DVA - now there's an album!!! > > Mark > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:40:34 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) Creature, << THE BOX Are great! I;ve been wanting to get a copy of thier Ole Style Dropdown 12" EP or other versions. I have thier live album with old Style Dropdown on it,but the 12" is excellent. Does anyone want to trade Old Style for the Live album? >> You are only talking about a fraction of the Box's output - there is also an EP, a mini-album and a studio album. Stretching it a bit really, considering they really only had one sound....but enjoyable nonetheless. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:33:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: Re: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) I didn't mean to jump into a conversation and say that was thier sound for thier whole career. I bought a cd of thiers from 88 or 89 that sucked,so thier music got worse,i guess. - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Creature, > > << THE BOX Are great! I;ve been wanting to get a copy of thier Ole > Style > Dropdown 12" EP or other versions. I have thier live album with old > Style Dropdown on it,but the 12" is excellent. > Does anyone want to trade Old Style for the Live album? >> > > You are only talking about a fraction of the Box's output - there is > also an > EP, a mini-album and a studio album. Stretching it a bit really, > considering > they really only had one sound....but enjoyable nonetheless. > > Mark > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:30:11 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) Dunno ... I happen to own a CD by a band called The Box that came out around then, & I'm pretty sure it wasn't the same band we're talking about here, though I could be wrong ... I get the impression these guys were French, though I could be thinking of someone else. I've never actually played the disc -- it was amongst about 20 that someone was getting rid of & gave me. Dan > I didn't mean to jump into a conversation and say that was thier sound >for thier whole career. I bought a cd of thiers from 88 or 89 that >sucked,so thier music got worse,i guess. > >--- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >> Creature, >> >> << THE BOX Are great! I;ve been wanting to get a copy of thier Ole >> Style >> Dropdown 12" EP or other versions. I have thier live album with old >> Style Dropdown on it,but the 12" is excellent. >> Does anyone want to trade Old Style for the Live album? >> >> >> You are only talking about a fraction of the Box's output - there is >> also an >> EP, a mini-album and a studio album. Stretching it a bit really, >> considering >> they really only had one sound....but enjoyable nonetheless. >> >> Mark >> > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. >http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:01:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: Re: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) Maybe it is another band because they sure didn't sound the same to me,at all. I think i paid under 1.00 for my copy,but it was a cut out. All i know is the Box from the early eighties was a great band that not to many people heard of except here. Rick - --- tube disaster wrote: > Dunno ... I happen to own a CD by a band called The Box that came out > around > then, & I'm pretty sure it wasn't the same band we're talking about > here, > though I could be wrong ... I get the impression these guys were > French, > though I could be thinking of someone else. I've never actually > played the > disc -- it was amongst about 20 that someone was getting rid of & > gave me. > > Dan > > > > I didn't mean to jump into a conversation and say that was thier > sound > >for thier whole career. I bought a cd of thiers from 88 or 89 that > >sucked,so thier music got worse,i guess. > > > >--- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >> Creature, > >> > >> << THE BOX Are great! I;ve been wanting to get a copy of thier Ole > >> Style > >> Dropdown 12" EP or other versions. I have thier live album with > old > >> Style Dropdown on it,but the 12" is excellent. > >> Does anyone want to trade Old Style for the Live album? >> > >> > >> You are only talking about a fraction of the Box's output - there > is > >> also an > >> EP, a mini-album and a studio album. Stretching it a bit really, > >> considering > >> they really only had one sound....but enjoyable nonetheless. > >> > >> Mark > >> > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > >http://invites.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:19:35 EDT From: MihokoMk@aol.com Subject: Re: all time flops In a message dated 06-04-100 15:50:49, you write: >3. zoviet france ; collusion >now i bet someone on this list is a fan of this. sorry , i can't see anything >here at all. yawn Yes I quite like the three albums of theirs which I have on tape although they were a bit disappointing live after the amazing sinetone onslaught of Ryoji Ikeda earlier this year at Manchester's Contact theatre. So do you want to sell 'Collusion'? How much? Hard to believe it could be worse than Utah Saints... Fibreglass Messiah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:19:44 EDT From: MihokoMk@aol.com Subject: Re: Pink Flag In a message dated 06-04-100 05:40:54, you write: >personally I enjoy that Behind the Curtain version of Pink Flag ten times over the > original record cut. When the lights came up and they crashed into it at the RFH it was a an amazing moment but the best version ever has to the one live at camber sands. And Advantage in Height and Drill were about as good as it gets. The webcast looked awful on the machine i viewed it on but the sound was excellent. How many dead or alive? How many dead are alive? 5 Pink Flags fluttering and a mannequin in a pear tree Fibreglass Messiah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:19:43 EDT From: MihokoMk@aol.com Subject: Hard to find Fall and Wire Just a thought - someone was after Shiftwork - if any of you lot want me to look out for particular hard to find titles in manchester's used record stores then let me know. Most of the Fall CD's which are hard to get in the states can be picked up for around four to eight British pounds and a lot of Wire related things from two to eight. Fall vinyl is also very common here. Most of the UK music business blaggers sell their unwanted promos to Vinyl Exchange which always has cheap surpluses of new releases which have been given a big pr push. No doubt a few corrupt distributors also unload discs here. Swim seem to be using a company for Radio/TV promotion who are sending stuff out to unappreciative ears. I picked up 'Low Impact' for a fiver and Colin & Malka's mail order only except for sold promo copies homeburned live disc for a measly two quid (it was no. 86 if anyone wants to try to hunt down the guilty party). The excellent Pablo's Eye 'All She wants Grows Blue' CD was also selling for a similar low price. Multiple copies of the new Symptoms CD are going for five fifty. Manscape continually turns up at a bargain price too. But you should buy this stuff from the label as they need the money for more releases! Things that are unavailable on the other hand I am more than happy to watch out for so send lists and maximum prices (UK currency) you are willing to pay. The simple fact here is that CD's and records are too expensive. It is possible to release a CD for a fiver - its just that after all the middle men (distributors, shops, tax) take their cut, the price gets drastically inflated. Hard to avoid the tax part but if one cuts out the others then music becomes more affordable. Isn't MP3 supposed to be killing CD sales? Hardly surprising if it is considering how the price of records/CD's has risen in the UK way out of line with other more essential living costs. If each unit is cheaper surely its better for the artists too since listeners will be able to check out more music from different sources. I'm still after 'Nervepath' BTW. Did it ever really exist? Must shut down this PC before I grow cucumbers on my eyeballs... Fibreglass Messiah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:07:28 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) Rick, << I didn't mean to jump into a conversation and say that was thier sound for thier whole career. I bought a cd of thiers from 88 or 89 that sucked,so thier music got worse,i guess. >> I don't think they lasted more than a couple of years. I thought I had everything they ever released - the 1st EP (No time for talk etc - 5 tracks), Old Style Drop Down 12in, Secrets Out LP, Live album and Great Moments in Big Slam mini-LP (8 tracks). the newest is dated 1984, and I'm pretty sure they split after that. Good live too - saw them a couple of times.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:21:41 EDT From: "Patrick N. Bryant" Subject: peeping tom; newmember dear all: after prowling the list incognito for a few weeks, i suddenly realized im a bad guest and have inexplicably neglected to introduce myself and follow ideal copy protocol. my name is patrick bryant, law student at Northeastern University school of law (for what its worth -- and its not much -- NUSL is a cooperative education institution located in boston, usa). currently, i work at a labor-side law firm in the North Station/North End sector of downtown until summer school starts. i write infrequent music criticism for a local publication now onto the relatively more interesting stuff: inaugural wire exposure was in the late 80s on the eve of the reformation; a punky experimental friend with a parents visa bought the band's catalogue and was enraptured, as i recall, by 154 and chairs missing; map ref and 15th letter quenching my pop thirst; as wire reformed soon thereafter i was exposed to the new material with little temporal disconnect; this may mildly explain my otherwise inexplicable enthusiasm for both phases of the band. since then, my friend "progressed" to crass then the grateful dead, while i dived headlong into wire territory (incidentally magazine and band). to shake things up a bit, ill dodge my favorite wire product, but nominate He said's take care as easily the worst (especially considering that all other he said stuff is quite fantastic). oh yes, my partner is a choreographer dance teacher, who created a wonderful, elliptical piece (oh, trust me) to an excerpt from The Shivering Man by B.G. Yea, i know, it was created with another choreographer in mind, so please don't tattle. finally, without listing my music collection, i'll just offer an enthusiasm for The Fall, Art Ensemble of Chicago, David Murry, Staple Singers, german techno (e.g. Schneider), detroit techno, and simon fisher turner. regards, p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:21:32 EDT From: "Robert Jazz" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #110 Joshua, Yeah, Ron is a really really great guy, as are the other two EBN'ers, but I agree it is sad to waste it in a record store after hitting some high points. I think Ron is still pretty busy, so he semms happy. Hell, don't know if you know this but EBN came really close in the big music business game. TVT was prepared for big things with them. here's a few things they did achieve: * Got one of their great videos (George Bush doing "We Will Rock You") played onstage as part of the Zooropa U2 tour. * Were flown to Europe to hang out with U2 and there was much talk of future collaboration on multi-media works. * Had friggin' Brian Eno interested. He called Josh and left a message on his answering machine (which he saved of course!!) I think Josh may have gotten to meet Eno at some point. * Had David Byrne check them out in N.Y. and express some interest. I see Ron alot, I will pass on the fact that their were fans that miss EBN and talked about them on this Wire list - he'll dig that. Do you remember the name of the opening act? - - Robert Suck. In Your Ear is a great record store, but it's kind of a waste of a musician. > Josh did a remix of a track from my group which was a wonderful success, we > still have tentative plans to do some other things in the future with him. > > EBN was an incredible live outfit, but I think perhaps the initial interest > of them as a recording group was past it's sell-by date by the time their > full-length was released. Well, it's hard to record something that kinetic and, well, live. It's too bad. I really liked them. But I continue to hold my pet theory that they were done in by having the shittiest opening act ever, an M.C. Hammer knockoff that managed to empty the hall except for those with an overactive sense of irony. - - -Joshua (no relation, other than having lived nearby) ******************************* ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:27:59 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) i've just got one 7" single , i'll try to find out what it was called. black cover. when clock dva reformed (late 80's?) and did stuff like "the hacker" , was that any use? i see a lot of that stuff in dump bins and had wondered as to the quality. did they get adi newton / john carruthers back? the only album i ever bought was "advantage" , good but some of that "industrial funk" sounds really dated now.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: factory fest (tunnelvision/acr/crispies) Author: MIME:MarkBursa@aol.com at INTERNET Date: 26/04/2000 00:10 Rick, << I didn't mean to jump into a conversation and say that was thier sound for thier whole career. I bought a cd of thiers from 88 or 89 that sucked,so thier music got worse,i guess. >> I don't think they lasted more than a couple of years. I thought I had everything they ever released - the 1st EP (No time for talk etc - 5 tracks), Old Style Drop Down 12in, Secrets Out LP, Live album and Great Moments in Big Slam mini-LP (8 tracks). the newest is dated 1984, and I'm pretty sure they split after that. Good live too - saw them a couple of times.... Mark ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #111 *******************************