From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #105 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, April 20 2000 Volume 03 : Number 105 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: chameleons reunion ["tube disaster" ] Re: Pieta?B ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: Wire videos on MTV2 [John Roberts ] Rudimentary Peni [John Roberts ] Re: the room? [John Roberts ] Twopenneth on the Fall [John Roberts ] Re: Rudimentary Peni / anorak corner [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Rudimentary Peni / anorak corner [Aaron Mandel ] Colin Newman in Chicago? ["webmaster" ] support in Boston? [Mummah ] Re: Re[2]: rfh review [Aaron Mandel ] [none] [owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] Re: Rudi Peni 7" Farce ["tube disaster" ] Re: Shift-Work ["tube disaster" ] Re: Fallen [Miles Goosens ] Re: Re[2]: rfh review ["tube disaster" ] Re: Fallen ["tube disaster" ] easter break [kevin eden ] Re[2]: Rudimentary Peni / anorak corner [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Fall/Wireviews Swim compy [Wireviews ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:14:33 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: chameleons reunion Can't remember now exactly the context in which the subject originally came up a couple of weeks ago, but below is hot-off-the-Big-Takeover-list news on the Chameleons reunion gigs -- Dan >>This might be of interest for Chameleons fans who were not able to get tickets for the Witchwood gigs. There will be two extra gigs in London & Manchester. Herbert Hello everyone Due to the massive volume of email we've received from people all over the country and the world, disappointed at not being able to secure tickets for the Chameleons concerts at the Witchwood in May, we've decided to play two additional shows at larger venues. The dates and the venues are: Saturday June 3rd Manchester Academy, Oxford Rd, Manchester Sunday June 4th Shepherd's Bush Empire, Shepherd's Bush, London. These concerts will be the band's only live performances for the foreseeable future. Anyone wishing to go will have to arrange tickets themselves via the venues or ticket agents (see details below). WE CANNOT ARRANGE TICKETS FOR YOU! All the best Regards Mark Burgess Tickets will go on sale this Wednesday (19th April) exclusively from www.gigsandtours.com and then on general sale from Saturday 23rd April from Way Ahead 0115 912 9000 (for both shows) or Piccadilly Box office (0161 832 1111) for the Manchester show only. Tickets are priced ?15 + booking fee. The Chameleons acoustic album - Strip - will be available at the shows and via mail-order from mid-May. The full album track-listing is: 11. Less Than Human 12. Nathan's Phase 13. Here Today 14. Soul In Isolation 15. Paradiso 16. Caution 17. On The Beach 18. Pleasure and Pain 19. Road To Remo (instrumental) 20. Indian Add yourself to the e-mailing list to receive full ordering details nearer the time: Paradiso2K@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:23:26 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: Pieta?B George wrote.... The place eventually closed because, well, the owners >decided to be like the characters in Trainspotting. LOL! (On Pieta ) Reading Kevin's book, Gilbert was in a pub. There were some drunken Irish people in the pub and one was staring at a cushion and said that he could see the Virgin Mary. Lewis: "It was a miracle in a bar. It's also to do with that thing of men and barmaids, and virgins and whores. The optics in really old pubs were usually in carved bas, altar-like......" Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'll leave graffiti where you've never been kissed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:30:17 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: Wire videos on MTV2 Just thought I'd ask while we're on the subject of MTV, whether anyone knew that they showed the last last ever Wire gig for Bruce's birthday on Alternative Nation some years ago i.e. a rendition of Drill. John Roberts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:00:24 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Rudimentary Peni > sure some are live-ish. rudimentry peni released a 17 track 7" Oh no they didn't. There were only two 7" eps, self titled on Outer Himalayan - 12 tracks - and the Farce ep on Crass records - 11 tracks. There *was* however a bootleg live single which may well have had 17 tracks for all I know. If anyone knows anyone is prepared to part with this live bootleg then I would be more than interested to hear from them. And, according the Southern website there is a scheduled 7"/CD release from them. Usual work rate, one release every three or so years... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:12:04 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: the room? The Room went on to become Benny Profane who recorded a few bits and bobs including an lp for Play Hard records - ran by Happy Mondays mgr Nathan McGough and Hacienda DJ Dave Haslam. And another LP. You could buy both Benny Profane LPs on the one CD. Their titles are Trapdoor Swing and Dumb Luck CHarm. Single on Play Hard was Skateboard to Oblivion. They also has some earlier singles out via Red Rhino Distribution - I think the label was Ediesta. One of these was Rob A Bank which appears on one of the albums anyhow. I have got a Room 12" with - if my memory serves me right - five tracks on it. (Does this mean its an LP or an EP?) On Red Flame records I think. John Roberts > Anyway, I'm trying to find info on an '80s Liverpool (vaguely Joy > Divisionesque at times ... but then who wasn't?) band called The Room ... > more specifically, on the band that lead singer David Jackson formed > afterward, in the late '80s. About a year ago I found a link, possibly > through GEMM, that informed me for the first time of the existence of the > 2nd band, but unfortunately I don't seem to have made a record of the name, > & now I can't remember it to save my life or rediscover the aforementioned > link. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:27:20 +0100 (BST) From: John Roberts Subject: Twopenneth on the Fall > >>for all they've done i'd still rate "live at the witch trials" as my fave.<< > > Ah, you're just an old punker!....Witch Trials is great - though I prefer > Dragnet (genuinely sinister) and Grotesque (one of the funniest albums ever > made...MES yelling 'Pay the Borough!' over deranged punk-rockabilliy that > sounds like it was recorded on a portable cassette player... no wonder > Americans are usually baffled by the Fall!) How can anyone not like these three LPs? But from the earlier stuff you gotta add Hex Enduction Hour - which used to be referred to as mid period Fall when I was a young lad - with Winter prob my fave off that LP. > >>i know what you mean about the brix-era albums , but i thought that line up > was great live.<< Yes on Nation's Saving Grace tour, yes during the two drum WAFWO period - saw them like this at a Save the GLC festival in Brixton in 1984 - first fall gig and right impressed I was too, but towards the end they went right off. Agree that Frenz was utter dross. > > Frenz Experiment being particularly filler-full.... I got bored with the late > '80s albums, but they got it back together in the early '90s with 'Extricate' > and 'Shiftwork' before losing it again.... Extricate has Martin Bramah on > guitar. Saw Extricate tour at Cov Poly and they were awesome again. But seen on subsequent tours in Brum and Leics circa Shiftwork and they were awful. Back to awesome again with Infotainment Scan and Middle CLass REvolt but not convinced by LIght User. Oddly enough, I did like Cerebral Caustic. Saw them at Brum and Sheffield circa Infotainment and MCR. How come noone has menitioned MC REvolt as a top fall album? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:35:48 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Rudimentary Peni / anorak corner " Oh no they didn't. There were only two 7" eps, self titled on Outer Himalayan - 12 tracks - and the Farce ep on Crass records - 11 tracks. There *was* however a bootleg live single which may well have had 17 tracks for all I know. If anyone knows anyone is prepared to part with this live bootleg then I would be more than interested to hear from them. And, according the Southern website there is a scheduled 7"/CD release from them. Usual work rate, one release every three or so years... >>>>>> i love "farce" , what a great single. also bought death church lp which is almost as good. nick blinko now writes crime novels and reviews books in the guardian/observer so these singles aren't all he's doing..... thinking about the fall and their 20-22 studio albums , i guess that makes them the most productive punk-era band (surely nobody has done more?). however , if you add band albums plus solo releases , has any band from that era produced more material than wire? i can't think of many who'd get even close. what d'you all think? p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:47:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Rudimentary Peni / anorak corner On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > however , if you add band albums plus solo releases , has any band > from that era produced more material than wire? i can't think of many > who'd get even close. what d'you all think? p regrettably, i think Psychick TV, however you spell it, would win any extended prolificity contest, particularly if you included solo albums and related projects. didn't they release a whole box set of new material that came in a briefcase once? a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:49:31 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Rudimentary Peni / anorak corner >On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > >> however , if you add band albums plus solo releases , has any band >> from that era produced more material than wire? i can't think of many >> who'd get even close. what d'you all think? p > >regrettably, i think Psychick TV, however you spell it, would win any >extended prolificity contest, particularly if you included solo albums and >related projects. didn't they release a whole box set of new material that >came in a briefcase once? I believe they did that in their preincarnation as Throbbing Gristle, & it wasn't new material, but rather live cassettes of every gig they'd played up to then ... 3 or 4 dozen, if memory serves. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:19:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Creatured Subject: Rudi Peni 7" Farce The Rudi Peni Farce 7" has ten songs on it: Sacrifice Cosmetic Plafue Sundued Violence Only Human... The Bileball Farce Zero Again Mice Race Defined By Age Babble Seems like i had a ecord by them on Crass lable,but i dont remember it have ten songs.I'm probably getting it confused with the Zounds-Can't Cheat Karna 7" i HAD! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:24:37 -0500 From: "webmaster" Subject: Colin Newman in Chicago? Big ad in New City for this Noise Pop 2000, Chicago May 10-15th; lists Wire, Silo and Colin Newman as performing - wonder if he's djing or live? shop@wiremailorder.com http://wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Mummah Subject: support in Boston? Hi there, I've been away from the list for a little while, any word on support in Boston? Just wondering! Can't wait for the show! Petrina __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:14:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > In *my* trainspotter world, studio albums are recorded in studios as > albums, rather than in different sessions for separate, distinct & > dribbled-out releases. Otherwise, someone who happens to own the 5 or > so 7"s from which Early Years was assembled could hold them in his > hands & say, "Look! I'm holding The Fall's 4th studio album!" I think > not. well, they could say they have all the tracks from one of the Fall's albums, which they would. you could go to the other extreme and say "that Perverted By Language CD isn't a Fall album. it's a compilation with all the tracks from the album Perverted By Language, plus some singles and one bonus track." and what about bands that release a single, and then write a bunch more songs for an album that ends up including the a-side from the single? The Fall sure have released a lot of albums, haven't they? a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:26:19 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [none] mail.visi.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) with ESMTP id JAA24093 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:27:43 -0500 (CDT) Posted-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:27:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <38FDC2E2.DFBA2D06@tiny.net> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:29:54 -0500 From: Amy Myrbo Organization: LRC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ideal copy list Subject: Fallen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk >> (hmmm ... by my count, >> we're overdue by at least 2 such comps) Innt there a new singles comp? We have it at the record store where I spend a few (paid) hours. It's called, er, um, "Baseball Caps Reversed?" No, no . . . "Dyin' for a Pee?" "Do you do you do you know why I hate you bay-bay?" (is it Nike or Gatorade that's using the Monks ["Monk Time"] in a tv ad?) Crap. I don't remember, but it's the past ten years or so singles. And me, I adore "Shift-Work." It's one of my tops (WaFWotF, Perverted, and This Nation's being th'others - okay, pop American girl). As I don't own it any more (ex-husband helped himself to the lion's share of my Fall CDs, as well as most Wire, etc, in the divorce) and so can't give a songbysong run-down of why I respectfully disagree with y'all . . . but if anyone would like to part with a copy, I'd be interested - as it was available here for about a week in 1991 (?) and that at no cheaper than $26. Notebooks Out Plagiarists! A - -- ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Amy Myrbo -+- http://www.visi.com/~cosa -+- amyrbo@umn.edu Limnological Research Center, Geology and Geophysics, University of Minnesota, 310 Pillsbury Dr SE, Mpls MN 55455 ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:20:02 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Rudi Peni 7" Farce >The Rudi Peni Farce 7" has ten songs on it: >Sacrifice >Cosmetic Plafue >Sundued Violence >Only Human... >The Bileball >Farce >Zero Again >Mice Race >Defined By Age >Babble > > Seems like i had a ecord by them on Crass lable,but i dont remember >it have ten songs.I'm probably getting it confused with the >Zounds-Can't Cheat Karna 7" i HAD! Damn if I can remember which Rudimentary Peni 7" is which ... wasn't Farce the one on Crass, with perhaps their first one an s/t on their own Outer Himalayan label? Regardless, I'm pretty sure it had at *least* 10 songs on it, though I'm not up to digging through my old 7"s just now, esp. since they're not really in order. I still don't think that makes either 7" an album, though. Sorry. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:01:40 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Shift-Work - - > > >> (hmmm ... by my count, > >> we're overdue by at least 2 such comps) > >Innt there a new singles comp? We have it at the record store >where I spend a few (paid) hours. It's called, er, um, "Baseball >Caps Reversed?" No, no . . . "Dyin' for a Pee?" "Do you do you >do you know why I hate you bay-bay?" (is it Nike or Gatorade >that's using the Monks ["Monk Time"] in a tv ad?) Crap. I don't >remember, but it's the past ten years or so singles. Jesus, if you're serious, please let me know the title. Isn't somebody on here on FallNet (well, besides me, who as noted before quit bothering to read them more than a year ago)? > >And me, I adore "Shift-Work." It's one of my tops (WaFWotF, >Perverted, and This Nation's being th'others - okay, pop American >girl). As I don't own it any more (ex-husband helped himself to >the lion's share of my Fall CDs, as well as most Wire, etc, in >the divorce) and so can't give a songbysong run-down of why I >respectfully disagree with y'all . . . but if anyone would like >to part with a copy, I'd be interested - as it was available here >for about a week in 1991 (?) and that at no cheaper than $26. Damn. Wish this subject had come up a few months ago, as I passed on my duplicate copy to a fellow Fall fanatic at work (anyone have any idea how bizarre it feels to type that phrase in the middle of Arkansas?) after finding the CD for cheap at one of our biannual record fairs. The passed-on copy was, though, merely the cassette (which showed up for like $1 as a cutout back around '93, oddly enough, in the same store in which I also found the vinyls of Early Years, the import Witch Trials, Bend Sinister, etc. as $3 cutouts in the early '90s ... too damned bad that Best Buy subsequently drove 'em out of business, back in the days when Best Buy would carry Cerebral Caustic at a domestic price, not to mention -- actual Wire content! -- Behind the Curtain, albeit *not* at a domestic price). Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:42:53 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Fallen Amy Myrbo wrote: >And me, I adore "Shift-Work." It's one of my tops (WaFWotF, >Perverted, and This Nation's being th'others - okay, pop American >girl). I'm Pop American Boy. How'ya doin'? It shouldn't surprise me that so many folks on the list prefer the earlier, even more abrasive iterations of the Fall. That's not a slam against *anyone*, as I think many listmembers have an adventurous spirit and like to hear bands that push the envelope, and they then quickly tire of the band when they display a modicum of professionalism and competence -- "starting to sound like everyone else" I guess is the thinking. Me, I like a nice middle ground, and while my forays into the pre-Brix and post-Brix era have had their rewards, I don't like it nearly as well as the Brix material, which seems to harness Mark E. Smith's ramshackle tendencies into incredibly focused ("Living Too Late") and/or fun ("No Bulbs") pieces without doing violence to the band's original intent and purposes, and adding a healthy dose of melodicism and pop spunk to the proceedings. My favorite: KURIOUS ORANJ. back in the bomb shelter, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:41:05 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review >On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > >> In *my* trainspotter world, studio albums are recorded in studios as >> albums, rather than in different sessions for separate, distinct & >> dribbled-out releases. Otherwise, someone who happens to own the 5 or >> so 7"s from which Early Years was assembled could hold them in his >> hands & say, "Look! I'm holding The Fall's 4th studio album!" I think >> not. > >well, they could say they have all the tracks from one of the Fall's >albums, which they would. you could go to the other extreme and say "that >Perverted By Language CD isn't a Fall album. it's a compilation with all >the tracks from the album Perverted By Language, plus some singles and one >bonus track." Sorry, I'm not following you ... but I haven't had enough sleep & have odd problems getting on-line all day, so probably it's my fault. > >and what about bands that release a single, and then write a bunch more >songs for an album that ends up including the a-side from the single? I think you just described well over half the albums ever released ... > >The Fall sure have released a lot of albums, haven't they? God, yes. Which is all that counts. And in my estimation, at least 11 are top-drawer, which I can't say for any other band I've ever encountered. Anyone know if anything ever came out from Ark, the band that Hanley & Scanlon joined (formed?) after their final dust-up with MES? Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:46:36 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Fallen >Amy Myrbo wrote: > >And me, I adore "Shift-Work." It's one of my tops (WaFWotF, > >Perverted, and This Nation's being th'others - okay, pop American > >girl). > >I'm Pop American Boy. How'ya doin'? > >It shouldn't surprise me that so many folks on the list prefer the earlier, >even more abrasive iterations of the Fall. That's not a slam against >*anyone*, as I think many listmembers have an adventurous spirit and like >to hear bands that push the envelope, and they then quickly tire of the >band when they display a modicum of professionalism and competence -- >"starting to sound like everyone else" I guess is the thinking. > >Me, I like a nice middle ground, and while my forays into the pre-Brix and >post-Brix era have had their rewards, I don't like it nearly as well as the >Brix material, which seems to harness Mark E. Smith's ramshackle tendencies >into incredibly focused ("Living Too Late") and/or fun ("No Bulbs") pieces >without doing violence to the band's original intent and purposes, and >adding a healthy dose of melodicism and pop spunk to the proceedings. Well, let's see. Of the 11 Fall LPs that I just described in another e-mail as "top-drawer," I believe the following categories obtain -- Pre-Brix: Witch Trials Grotesque Room To Live Brix: Wonderful & Frightening This Nation's Bend Sinister Frenz Experiment Post-Brix: Code: Selfish Infotainment Scan Brix Again: Cerebral Caustic Light User Dan, apparently hewing to the middle ground as well ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:48:19 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: easter break Please note: WMO Limited will be off-line from Friday 20th April until Tuesday 2nd May. Any urgent contact should be made via phone/fax. Have a good break y'all! ===== kevin eden wmo, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk wmouk@yahoo.com http://wiremailorder.com/ "dreams that money can buy" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:01:15 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Rudimentary Peni / anorak corner >regrettably, i think Psychick TV, however you spell it, would win any >extended prolificity contest, particularly if you included solo albums and >related projects. didn't they release a whole box set of new material that >came in a briefcase once? I believe they did that in their preincarnation as Throbbing Gristle, & it wasn't new material, but rather live cassettes of every gig they'd played up to then ... 3 or 4 dozen, if memory serves. Dan >>>>> yep , live albums don't count in this calculation....... p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:16:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Re: Fall/Wireviews Swim compy Thought I'd bung in my 2p regarding The Fall; a few years back I as quite the Fall aficionado and own a daft amount of their stuff. I actually thought Levitate was great, and it remains my favourite one of theirs after the cliche Nations Saving Grace. However, I bought Marshal Suite not too long ago and, well, thought it was utter crap, really. For me it had pretty much no redeeming features whatsoever. Still, it's all subjective, right? Also, I have been informed of some rather alarming access problems on my site (mostly affecting Navigator users on the PC) so I've extended the deadline for the Swim Team One competition until May 12th. Craig/Wireviews. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #105 *******************************