From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #104 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, April 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 104 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: rfh review [MarkBursa@aol.com] Wire videos on MTV2 [jasonmb@calweb.com] Re[2]: rfh review [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[2]: rfh review [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: Re[2]: rfh review ["giluz" ] Re: Re[2]: rfh review [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re[4]: rfh review [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[4]: rfh review [MarkBursa@aol.com] Michael Clarke and Foetus ["A. Izenstark" ] Off Topic Self Plug of sorts [Casper Milquetoast ] Re: Off Topic Self Plug of sorts [Joshua ] Re: Off Topic Self Plug of sorts [Casper Milquetoast ] Re: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) ["ian barrett] Re: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) [Joshua ] Re: Re[2]: rfh review ["tube disaster" ] Re: Re[2]: rfh review [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Re[2]: rfh review ["tube disaster" ] Re: Re[2]: rfh review [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) [Paul Pietrom] Pieta? [george.m.hook@ac.com] Re: Pieta? ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: Pieta? [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: Pieta?B [george.m.hook@ac.com] Re: Pieta? [Joshua ] Re: Re[2]: rfh review ["tube disaster" ] Re: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) ["tube disast] Re: Re[2]: rfh review [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: rfh review [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: rfh review ["tube disaster" ] Re: Re[6]: rfh review [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[6]: rfh review ["tube disaster" ] Re: Re[2]: rfh review [MarkBursa@aol.com] slates etc ["andy and sheri wiseman" ] Re: slates etc ["tube disaster" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:50:13 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: rfh review Andy, Uncut is just about the best of the UK mainstream mags these days... most of the staff seem to be the ex-Melody Maker 1980s crew (Allan Jones is editor) and they get a god balance of new and old stuff - without delving as far back into the 50s and 60s as Mojo. Q these days is like a trade magazine, though still entertaining in places.... Picking Hex endouction Hour shows they know their stuff... most "received wisdom" nowadays puts This Nation's Saving Grace as the classic Fall album. A good album, but none of the Brix-era stuff comes close to the classic Smith-Hanley-Scanlon-Riley-whoever on drums lineup... << a very positive review of the rfh gig in the may issue of "uncut" magazine. written by david stubbs who seems to know his stuff.i can,t copy it all but i particularly liked the final sentence."For those who are deadly serious about their ironic intentions,Wire remain a cherished touchstone." exactly! spot on! if you would like the entire review maybe someone with superior typing skills could make a fist(or a least more than one finger). yours a.w incidentally their classic album re-visited is hex enduction hour. spot on again! >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:11:53 -0700 From: jasonmb@calweb.com Subject: Wire videos on MTV2 >Speaking of MTV2, they just finished their "A-Z" thing where >they ran every video ever played on MTV (in alphabetical order >by song title) over the course of 4 months. Somebody sent me >a CSV list of them (591 KB), and apparently the Wire videos they >showed were Ahead, Eardrum Buzz, In Vivo, Kidney Bingoes, and >Silk Skin Paws; also He Said's Could You. Probably the last time >they'll ever run any of them... Probably. I only managed to tape "Eardrum Buzz" and "In Vivo." If anyone taped the other four, please e-mail me. I'd really like to get them. - -- Jason Borchers jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:12:07 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: rfh review Andy, Uncut is just about the best of the UK mainstream mags these days... most of the staff seem to be the ex-Melody Maker 1980s crew (Allan Jones is editor) and they get a god balance of new and old stuff - without delving as far back into the 50s and 60s as Mojo. Q these days is like a trade magazine, though still entertaining in places.... >>>>> i still quite like Q , mojo is good in parts but it runs some dreadful "old fart" pieces if you know what i mean. maybe i go try this uncut Picking Hex endouction Hour shows they know their stuff... most "received wisdom" nowadays puts This Nation's Saving Grace as the classic Fall album. A good album, but none of the Brix-era stuff comes close to the classic Smith-Hanley-Scanlon-Riley-whoever on drums lineup... >>>>> for all they've done i'd still rate "live at the witch trials" as my fave. i know what you mean about the brix-era albums , but i thought that line up was great live. i've got stuff like frenz experiment but it must be years since i've played it , ever since about then i've thought the fall albums were patchy with big chunks of filler. i guess its the old "i've got 9 fall albums , do i really need a tenth or shall i go try something different" dilemma , i sort of went for the second option.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 07:57:26 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review Paul, << still quite like Q , mojo is good in parts but it runs some dreadful "old fart" pieces if you know what i mean. maybe i go try this uncut >> Exactly my point...20-page pieces on finger-in-the-ear folkies who made one album in 1963....entertaining sometimes, but I know I won't like the music.... >>for all they've done i'd still rate "live at the witch trials" as my fave.<< Ah, you're just an old punker!....Witch Trials is great - though I prefer Dragnet (genuinely sinister) and Grotesque (one of the funniest albums ever made...MES yelling 'Pay the Borough!' over deranged punk-rockabilliy that sounds like it was recorded on a portable cassette player... no wonder Americans are usually baffled by the Fall!) >>i know what you mean about the brix-era albums , but i thought that line up was great live.<< There were a lot of Brix-co-written songs that just don't sound right. Songs that she wrote before being in the Fall and sounded like American new wave... They were good live though, though not as good as the two drummers line-up from 1981-82....Once saw the Fall at Hammersmith Palais in early 82 and the encore they did of 'The Classical' and 'Fantastic Life' was unbelievable.... >>i've got stuff like frenz experiment but it must be years since i've played it , ever since about then i've thought the fall albums were patchy with big chunks of filler. i guess its the old "i've got 9 fall albums , do i really need a tenth or shall i go try something different" dilemma , i sort of went for the second option.<< Frenz Experiment being particularly filler-full.... I got bored with the late '80s albums, but they got it back together in the early '90s with 'Extricate' and 'Shiftwork' before losing it again.... Extricate has Martin Bramah on guitar. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:09:59 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[2]: rfh review > Frenz Experiment being particularly filler-full.... I got bored > with the late > '80s albums, but they got it back together in the early '90s with > 'Extricate' > and 'Shiftwork' before losing it again.... Extricate has Martin Bramah on > guitar. > > Mark > Well, you should listen to their latest album, Marshall Suite, and the one before that was not bad as well. Personally, my favourite Fall albums were the first 4 Brix albums (Perverted By Language till Bend Sinister), but Witch Trials and Dragnet were brilliant as well (all of the early ones were great, actually, but these are my favourites). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:27:25 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review Gil, << Well, you should listen to their latest album, Marshall Suite, and the one before that was not bad as well.<< Marshall Suite is supposed to be very good...I last saw the Fall live in '98 and they were good then... >> Personally, my favourite Fall albums were the first 4 Brix albums (Perverted By Language till Bend Sinister), but Witch Trials and Dragnet were brilliant as well (all of the early ones were great, actually, but these are my favourites). >> I don't really count PBL as a Brix album - as it was all written before she joined. It has two of my all-time favourite Fall songs on it - Garden and Tempo House, from a time when they were playing lots of very long, grinding songs. (Words of Expectation should have been on that album, as should Pilsner Trail, which is on the enhanced CD). I was at the gig where Tempo House was recorded (Manchester Hacienda)... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:16:31 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: rfh review .<< Ah, you're just an old punker!....Witch Trials is great - though I prefer Dragnet (genuinely sinister) and Grotesque (one of the funniest albums ever made...MES yelling 'Pay the Borough!' over deranged punk-rockabilliy that sounds like it was recorded on a portable cassette player... no wonder Americans are usually baffled by the Fall!) >>>>> i like dragnet and grotesque but the reason i prefer latwt is probably that it does without the sprawling "epics" like spectre vs rector/the nwra ; i was never too keen on those. witch trials keeps it punchier. >>i know what you mean about the brix-era albums , but i thought that line up was great live.<< There were a lot of Brix-co-written songs that just don't sound right. Songs that she wrote before being in the Fall and sounded like American new wave... They were good live though, though not as good as the two drummers line-up from 1981-82....Once saw the Fall at Hammersmith Palais in early 82 and the encore they did of 'The Classical' and 'Fantastic Life' was unbelievable.... >>>>> which ones do you think she wrote previously? i thought the change from lard to brix kept it fresh really which was good. >>i've got stuff like frenz experiment but it must be years since i've played it , ever since about then i've thought the fall albums were patchy with big chunks of filler. i guess its the old "i've got 9 fall albums , do i really need a tenth or shall i go try something different" dilemma , i sort of went for the second option.<< Frenz Experiment being particularly filler-full.... I got bored with the late '80s albums, but they got it back together in the early '90s with 'Extricate' and 'Shiftwork' before losing it again.... Extricate has Martin Bramah on guitar. >>>>> i saw the bham date on the "extricate" tour , bramah was great and looked exactly the same as witch trials era. cool dude. shame the blue orchids never amounted to much after a couple of great singles. p Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:49:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: rfh review In a message dated 04/18/00 1:20:01PM, you write: << i like dragnet and grotesque but the reason i prefer latwt is probably that it does without the sprawling "epics" like spectre vs rector/the nwra ; i was never too keen on those. witch trials keeps it punchier. >> I just liked the crappy production of thoise albums, and all the self-invented mythology of the time (Roman Totale etc...). Very northern, and as I'm from that area I guess it struck a chord.... >>which ones do you think she wrote previously? i thought the change from lard to brix kept it fresh really which was good.<< The singles like 2 by 4 and Oh Brother, plus stuff like God Box. Where the vocals follow the guitar. Just too direct for me - I liked the non-musicianship aspects of the Fall - the Scanlon/Hanley duo is what made the band for me....Steve Hanley apparently didn't know what the names of the strings were, while Craig Scanlon played a right-handed guitar upside down (with the heavy strings at the bottom). I saw them after Lard left and before Brix joined and they were phenomenal...just MES and a giant, grinding out-of-tune rhythm section.... Often wonder what a supergroup with Scanlon, Hanley and Bruce Gilbert would sound like - supremely non-musicianly musicians! >> i saw the bham date on the "extricate" tour , bramah was great and looked exactly the same as witch trials era. cool dude. shame the blue orchids never amounted to much after a couple of great singles. << Saw them in Brighton on the same tour. Bramah did look (and play) brilliantly.... I really liked the Blue Orchids. The first 2 singles are superb and I though the album was great too. They kept making comebacks in the 80s - once about the same time as Wire (when they made a dreadful sort of reggae single) and again on the back of 'Madchester', which was better, but sort of funked up. Again, they did a single or two which were OK. Live both times they sounded the same as they always did.... mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:19:11 -0400 From: "A. Izenstark" Subject: Michael Clarke and Foetus Paul KW wrote: > If anyone has it, or can remember it, were there any Wire songs in it? Did > it ever get an official release? Is it still available anywhere? Is there > anyone out there who could do me a PAL copy, for a reasonable price (i.e. - > not much more than cost)? I, too, would love a copy of this. It was indeed done by Charles Atlas. Last year a copy of it was used in an exhibit on video art at the Massachusetts College of Art, but I didn't get a chance to watch the whole thing. I don't remember any Wire songs in the fragment I saw, though. a.w wrote: > i always thought jim(clint ruin)thirwell could have had the commercial > success of the the had he not called the band ...foetus... > your favourite foetus incarnations please,and anyone know what he's > up to these days(i lost interest with wiseblood). WZBC in Newton, MA is reporting that although the opening acts in Boston aren't known yet, Pan Sonic and Monsieur Foetus (under some pseudonym like DJ Suteof) will be opening in New York. This sounds too good to be true, but maybe it is... A. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:09:30 -0400 From: Casper Milquetoast Subject: Off Topic Self Plug of sorts I just redesigned my site, vague wire refference in a rant, and my great list of carcinogens if anyone cares to add to it you are more than welcome (under the wordstodefine section). Anyone with some design sense please give me some info on i'd would greatly appreciate it. Plus I won't be able to get that Squarepusher vid until next week because it is out on lone right now. I just finished watching the Vibel video and I love how Cunningham has a such an excellent grasp on electronic music. Thank you for posting that. http://www.skribe.net/milque casper ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:37:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Joshua Subject: Re: Off Topic Self Plug of sorts On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Casper Milquetoast wrote: > http://www.skribe.net/milque I'm doing a random sampling of your music. Laminate is diggous. Ever heard of the Emergency Broadcast Network? Similar panicky terrorist humor. It's pretty much impossible to work while listening to this stuff, though. So I'll download more! Good samples in Texas. Texas always had such good samples. Less insictiktik, but totally absorbing. Also makes it impossible to work. And so I return to my art sans milquetoast. - -Joshua ___ ___ http://www.swingpad.com (Digital Art and Artisanship) - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:52:12 -0400 From: Casper Milquetoast Subject: Re: Off Topic Self Plug of sorts I guess the only "work" music there is Good Dog Bad Dog. If you liked Laminant then you'll probably like God Is An 80's Robot. I've been pretty lax on the digital noise stuff lately, I think I'll make the next album harder than the last. Too bad they won't let me post the last track on the last album due to copywrite infringement. I think i overstepped my sampling limits on a cut from Bladerunner. The song makes me cry though. Thanks for the comments they are much appreciated. Joshua wrote: > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Casper Milquetoast wrote: > > > http://www.skribe.net/milque > > I'm doing a random sampling of your music. Laminate is diggous. > > Ever heard of the Emergency Broadcast Network? Similar panicky terrorist > humor. > > It's pretty much impossible to work while listening to this stuff, though. > > So I'll download more! > > Good samples in Texas. > > Texas always had such good samples. > > Less insictiktik, but totally absorbing. Also makes it impossible to > work. > > And so I return to my art sans milquetoast. > > -Joshua > > ___ ___ > > http://www.swingpad.com (Digital Art and Artisanship) > > --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:21:54 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) > By the way, this has very possibly been covered in the past, but is that a > confirmed and acknowledged use of 'Drill' in the film 'Heathers?' > I just popped my copy of Heathers into the LaserDisc player. There's no mention of "Drill" in the song credits, so I'm guessing it wasn't used. (Unless the Euro editions of the movie were any different - and I don't think they were.) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:19:11 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review >> Frenz Experiment being particularly filler-full.... I got bored >> with the late >> '80s albums, but they got it back together in the early '90s with >> 'Extricate' >> and 'Shiftwork' before losing it again.... Extricate has Martin Bramah on >> guitar. >> >> Mark >> > >Well, you should listen to their latest album, Marshall Suite, and the one >before that was not bad as well. Personally, my favourite Fall albums were >the first 4 Brix albums (Perverted By Language till Bend Sinister), but >Witch Trials and Dragnet were brilliant as well (all of the early ones were >great, actually, but these are my favourites). > >giluz Different strokes, of course. I own all 20(?) studio albums & about the same number of live, singles, outtakes, etc. collections (Live 1977 arrived just yesterday, as it happens ... quite inspiring), & there are 3 that I can't bear to listen to -- Dragnet, Hex Enduction Hour & Levitate. I'd rate their best ones as Witch Trials, Grotesque (took me about 15 years to get into it, so there's probably still hope for Dragnet etc.), Room To Live, Wonderful & Frightening World, This Nation's, Bend Sinister, Frenz, Shiftwork, Infotainment, Cerebral & Light User. My pop sweet tooth coming to the fore, I'm sure. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:56:01 +0100 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) From: Paul Pietromonaco To: Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 5:21 PM Subject: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) > > By the way, this has very possibly been covered in the past, but is that > a > > confirmed and acknowledged use of 'Drill' in the film 'Heathers?' - Ian B > > > > I just popped my copy of Heathers into the LaserDisc player. There's no > mention of "Drill" in the song credits, so I'm guessing it wasn't used. > > (Unless the Euro editions of the movie were any different - and I don't > think they were.) > > Cheers, > Paul > > Hmmmm...Again, probably just me being half asleep at the time, but I recall that when watching the film (once only - I found Christian Slater's Jack Nicholson impression irritating in the extreme), there's one scene where a radio is playing; the DJ announces the next song as being (something like) "Teenage Suicide; Don't Do It" by some fictional band who I think are mentioned at various points in the film, and a couple of bars are heard before either the scene ends or somebody switches off the radio. And I could almost SWEAR that the musical fragment was from the original 'Drill'; I stuck it out to the end of the film to check the credits, and sure enough, no mention was made. Perhaps when/if you watch the film again......? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:24:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Joshua Subject: Re: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, ian barrett wrote: > > Hmmmm...Again, probably just me being half asleep at the time, but I > recall that when watching the film (once only - I found Christian Slater's > Jack Nicholson impression irritating in the extreme), I'm with you on that. > there's one scene > where a radio is playing; the DJ announces the next song as being (something > like) "Teenage Suicide; Don't Do It" by some fictional band who I think are > mentioned at various points in the film, and a couple of bars are heard > before either the scene ends or somebody switches off the radio. And I > could almost SWEAR that the musical fragment was from the original 'Drill'; > I stuck it out to the end of the film to check the credits, and sure enough, > no mention was made. Perhaps when/if you watch the film again......? The fictional band is called Big Fun, and they sound like drippy shit. There's no Wire related anything about the song. It's funny, I guess, which is like *some* Wire, but not funny in the same way. - -Joshua ___ ___ http://www.swingpad.com (Digital Art and Artisanship) - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > Different strokes, of course. I own all 20(?) studio albums 22, by my count. but what's that worth? > there are 3 that I can't bear to listen to -- Dragnet, Hex Enduction > Hour & Levitate. egad! it took me a long time to actually buy Hex Enduction Hour because i didn't think much of the songs i'd heard from it as performed on Hip Priest And Kamerads. but now you couldn't get it out of my grasp any more easily than Perverted By Language, Witch Trials or Cerebral Caustic. that's two people who've stepped forward for Shiftwork, though. odd. it's the only Fall record i honestly wouldn't miss were it to vanish from my shelf; even Code:Selfish has two great songs amid the muck. but the Fall have sprung back from the edge of the abyss more often than Wire have, which makes even their worst moments interesting as part of a 24-year voyage. ooh, here come the men from the hippie-catcher van. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:43:57 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review >On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > >> Different strokes, of course. I own all 20(?) studio albums > >22, by my count. but what's that worth? Actually, I'm pretty sure it's 20 (though if I'm confusing Shift-Work with Code: Selfish -- see below -- it's entirely possible I'm overlooking something ... I will note that, if you're including Slates, surely it's an EP instead, albeit a great one) -- 1 Witch Trials 2 Dragnet 3 Grotesque 4 Hex 5 Room to Live 6 Perverted 7 Wonderful & Frightening 8 This Nation's 9 Bend Sinister 10 Frenz 11 Kurious 12 Extricate 13 Shift 14 Code 15 Infotainment 16 Middle Class 17 Cerebral 18 Light User 19 Levitate 20 Marshall > >> there are 3 that I can't bear to listen to -- Dragnet, Hex Enduction >> Hour & Levitate. > >egad! it took me a long time to actually buy Hex Enduction Hour because i >didn't think much of the songs i'd heard from it as performed on Hip >Priest And Kamerads. but now you couldn't get it out of my grasp any more >easily than Perverted By Language, Witch Trials or Cerebral Caustic. > >that's two people who've stepped forward for Shiftwork, though. odd. it's >the only Fall record i honestly wouldn't miss were it to vanish from my >shelf; even Code:Selfish has two great songs amid the muck. Fuck! I meant Code: Selfish! Shiftwork has barely ever made any sort of impression on me, good or bad, which is pretty odd for a Fall LP. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:15:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > Actually, I'm pretty sure it's 20 (though if I'm confusing Shift-Work with > Code: Selfish -- see below -- it's entirely possible I'm overlooking > something ... I will note that, if you're including Slates, surely it's an > EP instead, albeit a great one) -- no, but i was counting Early Years. must have double-counted something for the 22nd. though if you take the studio side of Seminal Live as counting for one-half, you could put that together with Slates and make 22. (you'd also make one of the most inconsistent LPs ever.) aaron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:18:43 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review >On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > >> Actually, I'm pretty sure it's 20 (though if I'm confusing Shift-Work with >> Code: Selfish -- see below -- it's entirely possible I'm overlooking >> something ... I will note that, if you're including Slates, surely it's an >> EP instead, albeit a great one) -- > >no, but i was counting Early Years. must have double-counted something for >the 22nd. Not to be trainspotterish, but Early Years is just a (brilliant!) collection ... If it's counted as a studio LP, Palace of Swords Reversed & the '84-'89 A- & B-sides roundups (hmmm ... by my count, we're overdue by at least 2 such comps) should be, too. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:03:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > Not to be trainspotterish, but Early Years is just a (brilliant!) > collection ... If it's counted as a studio LP, Palace of Swords > Reversed & the '84-'89 A- & B-sides roundups (hmmm ... by my count, > we're overdue by at least 2 such comps) should be, too. Early Years is distinguished by being an agglomeration of material from a contiguous time period, little or none of which is available elsewhere. other bands have put out "first albums" which are much the same. Palace and 458489, not so; they're truly 'collections'. those are the rules in my trainspotter world, anyway. i have learned to live in harmony with those who disagree. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:50:40 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) >> there's one scene >> where a radio is playing; the DJ announces the next song as being (something >> like) "Teenage Suicide; Don't Do It" by some fictional band who I think are >> mentioned at various points in the film, and a couple of bars are heard >> before either the scene ends or somebody switches off the radio. And I >> could almost SWEAR that the musical fragment was from the original 'Drill'; >> I stuck it out to the end of the film to check the credits, and sure enough, >> no mention was made. Perhaps when/if you watch the film again......?> >The fictional band is called Big Fun, and they sound like drippy shit. >There's no Wire related anything about the song. > >It's funny, I guess, which is like *some* Wire, but not funny in the same >way. Actually, Big Fun is not entirely fictional. It's Don Dixon under a pseudonym. Don, along with Mitch Easter, was one of the architects of the Athens, GA sound - think early R.E.M. and Let's Active. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:35:53 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: Pieta? Do any of you Wire people know what Pieta is about? Has Wire ever commented about these lyrics? I just discovered this song on the CD repressing of Bell is a Cup, and I really like it. Unlike the rest of the album, with its lyrical free associations, Pieta has a "plot" of sorts. It's a deeply unusual song, and I wonder if you all have arrived at interpretations (I think it's about alcoholism, myself). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:24:00 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: Pieta? Subject: Re: Pieta? There's a very good explanation of the song in Kevin S. Eden's "Everybody Loves A History". I'd quote you the explanation right now, if my copy weren't at home. If memory serves, the members of Wire were in a pub with a bunch of really drunk people. One of these people (not Wire) kept claiming to see the Virgin Mary. Possibly someone else on the list can remember? If you haven't picked it up already, you should see if you can find a copy somewhere. Essential Wire 101 reading. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:00:13 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: Re: Pieta?B Well, "Pieta" is about seeing the Virgin Mary in a bar. I wonder where Wire came up with the idea. I wonder if it was ... at the old Crash Palace bar in Chicago. It was a bar that used to be decorated with Roman Catholic religious statues and postcards and kitsch and other items. Al Jourgenson of Ministry fame used to hang there. The place eventually closed because, well, the owners decided to be like the characters in Trainspotting. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:50:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Joshua Subject: Re: Pieta? On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > There's a very good explanation of the song in Kevin S. Eden's > "Everybody Loves A History". I'd quote you the explanation right now, > if my copy weren't at home. If memory serves, the members of Wire were > in a pub with a bunch of really drunk people. One of these people (not > Wire) kept claiming to see the Virgin Mary. Possibly someone else on > the list can remember? > > If you haven't picked it up already, you should see if you can find a > copy somewhere. Essential Wire 101 reading. Someone wrote about a place where they found it, but I deleted it in a fury of mailbox cleaning. Repost, whoever? - -Joshua ___ ___ http://www.swingpad.com (Digital Art and Artisanship) - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:14:18 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review >On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > >> Not to be trainspotterish, but Early Years is just a (brilliant!) >> collection ... If it's counted as a studio LP, Palace of Swords >> Reversed & the '84-'89 A- & B-sides roundups (hmmm ... by my count, >> we're overdue by at least 2 such comps) should be, too. > >Early Years is distinguished by being an agglomeration of material from a >contiguous time period, little or none of which is available elsewhere. >other bands have put out "first albums" which are much the same. Palace >and 458489, not so; they're truly 'collections'. > >those are the rules in my trainspotter world, anyway. i have learned to >live in harmony with those who disagree. > >a The same (il)logic has been used by some Cure fans to define Japanese Whispers as a studio album, but of course it's not (after all, AFAIK, everything on Early Years *did* come out in 7" form 2 or more years before the LP). In *my* trainspotter world, studio albums are recorded in studios as albums, rather than in different sessions for separate, distinct & dribbled-out releases. Otherwise, someone who happens to own the 5 or so 7"s from which Early Years was assembled could hold them in his hands & say, "Look! I'm holding The Fall's 4th studio album!" I think not. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:23:13 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Like a Drill in the Heather (was: Hail the New Puritan) >>> there's one scene >>> where a radio is playing; the DJ announces the next song as being >(something >>> like) "Teenage Suicide; Don't Do It" by some fictional band who I >think are >>> mentioned at various points in the film, and a couple of bars are >heard >>> before either the scene ends or somebody switches off the radio. >And I >>> could almost SWEAR that the musical fragment was from the original >'Drill'; >>> I stuck it out to the end of the film to check the credits, and sure >enough, >>> no mention was made. Perhaps when/if you watch the film >again......?> >>The fictional band is called Big Fun, and they sound like drippy shit. >>There's no Wire related anything about the song. >> >>It's funny, I guess, which is like *some* Wire, but not funny in the >same >>way. > >Actually, Big Fun is not entirely fictional. It's Don Dixon under a >pseudonym. Don, along with Mitch Easter, was one of the architects of >the Athens, GA sound - think early R.E.M. and Let's Active. > >Cheers, >Paul As he said, "drippy shit." OK, that's not fair ... I've just been down on REM for about a decade now, is all. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:34:03 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review Dan, << I will note that, if you're including Slates, surely it's an EP instead, albeit a great one) -- >> Slates is as much of an album as Room to Live. Just because it's on 10inch doesn't make it an EP. It has 6 tracks, which means it can't be an EP. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:42:35 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review Aaron, << that's two people who've stepped forward for Shiftwork, though. odd. it's the only Fall record i honestly wouldn't miss were it to vanish from my shelf; even Code:Selfish has two great songs amid the muck. >> Ah, away with you! Shiftwork contains Idiot Joy Showland, one fo the Fall's finest songs...MES's fabulous put-down of the then-fashionable Madchester scene, in which he compares the bands of the day to 'Freddie and the Dreamers'. Also the only song in recorded history to refer to trousers as 'keks'.... magnificent! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:40:24 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review >Dan, > ><< I will note that, if you're including Slates, surely it's an > EP instead, albeit a great one) -- >> > >Slates is as much of an album as Room to Live. Just because it's on 10inch >doesn't make it an EP. It has 6 tracks, which means it can't be an EP. > >Mark Odd reasoning, that ... I own plenty of punk 7"s with 6 tracks or more. Does that make them LPs? I'd say that what makes Slates an EP is that it's, what, maybe 24 minutes long (can't put my hands at the moment on the CD that combines it & A Part of America Therein to check ... the 10" itself is of course somewhat vague), which off the top of my head would probably make it maybe 60 percent as long as most Fall albums. Yes, I have LPs that are less than 24 minutes long (the Angry Samoans' & Circle Jerks' debuts being notable examples), but ... but ... but ... don't confuse me with facts, please. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:45:50 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[6]: rfh review Paul, << there was also a band called thirst with bramah/karl burns but i don't think they released anything. >> I remember that - there may have been a 7in single....I'll have to check. If there was, I've probably got it! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:57:36 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[6]: rfh review >Paul, > ><< there was also a band called thirst with bramah/karl burns but i don't >think they released anything. >> > >I remember that - there may have been a 7in single....I'll have to check. If >there was, I've probably got it! > >Mark And if it has 6 songs, it's an album! Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:34:03 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: rfh review Dan, << I will note that, if you're including Slates, surely it's an EP instead, albeit a great one) -- >> Slates is as much of an album as Room to Live. Just because it's on 10inch doesn't make it an EP. It has 6 tracks, which means it can't be an EP. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:16:30 +0100 From: "andy and sheri wiseman" Subject: slates etc witch trials totales turns slates part of america all valid and long playing in my opinion. sure some are live-ish. rudimentry peni released a 17 track 7" but any ep longer than spiral scratch is too long. however,the record shops seem full of fall compilations my favorite era was the"hot aftershave bop","hit the north" and "guest informant/twister"12"'s it is interesting how often the fall come up in this forum. a.w ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 02:23:17 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: slates etc >witch trials >totales turns >slates >part of america >all valid and long playing in my opinion. >sure some are live-ish. rudimentry peni released a 17 track 7" >but any ep longer than spiral scratch is too long. Including Snakedrill? >however,the record shops seem full of fall compilations my >favorite era was the"hot aftershave bop","hit the north" and >"guest informant/twister"12"'s Have I mentioned my life's goal of someday owning, & being able to compile on tape &/or CD, all 7 versions of Hit the North? Great, great song ... >it is interesting how often the fall come up in this forum. There's definitely been more Fall talk here than on Bombast the last couple of days (where the only discussion at all has been my chatter with a former Chumbawamba list member about that band's new one -- the entry point being the fact that it includes a song called Hey Hey We're the Junkies, with the line "No xmas for junkies," along with a liner-note mention of "being able to recite obscure lines from The Fall's back catalogue to articulate our own experiences" ... they were, of course, sampling Living Too Late on the Slap! LP more than 10 years ago). Dan ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #104 *******************************