From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #91 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, April 7 2000 Volume 03 : Number 091 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Marc Reily ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re[2]: Marc Reily [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] RE: Fad Gadget ["giluz" ] RE: Collins Death List ["giluz" ] Re[2]: Fad Gadget [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] RE: Re[2]: Fad Gadget ["giluz" ] Re[4]: Fad Gadget [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: joy division moments in todays modern world [Carl Archer ] Mekons [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: The Passage [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Mekons ["tube disaster" ] bargains? [Stuart Fairbrother ] all time flops [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: all time flops [Mark Short ] where to start [Charles G Waldman ] Re: where to start [Casper Milquetoast ] Re: Morrissey's purportedly anti-Asian rut ["Michel Faber" ] Re: Super Stardom Syndromania [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Clash of the Titans [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Ex-Lion Tamers [george.m.hook@ac.com] ReALLY: OT:Class Action Suit Against Wallace & Gromit Haters ["MackDaddyD] Re: Band names ["MackDaddyD" ] This message has no subject [Casper Milquetoast ] Re: This message has no subject ["tube disaster" ] Re: Band names [Brian Barnett ] keywordstodefinenotions [Casper Milquetoast ] Re: This message has no subject [Brian Barnett ] re: Ex-Lion Tamers [Jack Steinmann ] Non Wire, but .... [george.m.hook@ac.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:50:28 +0100 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: RE: Marc Reily << But has Marc Reily and the Creepers been pressed on CD ? >> Actually, there is at least one Marc RILEY CD. I'm not sure if it's still available, but I have a copy. It was a sort of "best of" called "Sleeper", released on Bleed Records (DRYCD 001). It contains 13 tracks, mainly taken from the LPs "Rock 'N' Roll Liquorice Flavour" and "Fancy Meeting God", together with some tracks from early 12" EP's. It runs to something like 76 minutes. And it's well worth tracking down - it's the Marc Riley I play the most (together with the live LP "Warts 'n' all". Paul KW ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:18:44 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Marc Reily >>>> not sure calling anything "sleeper" was a good idea , if ever a band deserved avoiding it was louise weener and co, nice to see lard doing ok now as i suspect mes has always found better things to do with his cash than pay much of it to his backing band.p Actually, there is at least one Marc RILEY CD. I'm not sure if it's still available, but I have a copy. It was a sort of "best of" called "Sleeper", released on Bleed Records (DRYCD 001). It contains 13 tracks, mainly taken from the LPs "Rock 'N' Roll Liquorice Flavour" and "Fancy Meeting God", together with some tracks from early 12" EP's. It runs to something like 76 minutes. And it's well worth tracking down - it's the Marc Riley I play the most (together with the live LP "Warts 'n' all". Paul KW ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:54:46 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Fad Gadget Well, no. Last time I heard of him was in a London gig about 8 years ago, when he went upstage with a half-full whisky bottle and finished it as the gig progressed. Eventually we (the audience) ended up pogoing on the stage while Mr. Tovey stood and watched us. Great gig. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Jorge Punaro Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 6:08 AM To: tube disaster; wire mailing list Subject: Fad Gadget Does anybody knows what Mr. Fad Gadget/Frank Tovey is doing these days, his last record is 8 years old now. Saludos Jorge - -----Mensaje original----- De: tube disaster Para: wire mailing list Fecha: Miércoles, 05 de Abril de 2000 06:35 p.m. Asunto: Re: industry (was:song titles, dangerous girls,industry (was:Band names(Crocheted Doughnut Ring) > > > >>Didn't Fad Gadget do State of the Nation? >> > > >Yeah, on Fireside Favourites. Probably about 50 bands have done songs by >that name ... it's a common enough phrase. > >Dan > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:04:57 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Collins Death List I don't think anyone had something personal to say against Phil Collins. He always struck me as a quite alright guy personally, and your comments illustrate that. However, as a musician he sucks, and that's the only thing I've got against him. I don't think I'd like Mark E. Smith as a person but I still think he's a genius. Being nice dosen't make you a good artist. Being a horrible person doesn't make you a good or a bad artist as well, there just isn't any connection between the two factors. giluz - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of JH3 Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 7:07 AM To: idealcopysmoeorg Subject: Re: Collins Death List I don't post much, but if you'll just allow me this one indulgence: >Okay fine, who here actually likes Phil Collins at all? I just wanted to >know because this has become the "Bring Hot Death to Collins" list >pretty quick. I really don't mind it coming to that because personally I >think that Phil Collins should have something very horrible done to him, >but I was curious if there were any fans on the list. I guess you could say that I sort of like Phil Collins. I remember back in the 1980's, when some of my distant cousins in the Balkans were forced to flee from their homes by armed bands of ethnic paramilitaries, Phil reached out to them - he sent them all coupons for L2.50 off the price of his latest album. I remember being very touched by that. And on a more personal note, I have fond memories of when my nephew accidentally transmitted a 10-second MP3 snippet of "In the Air Tonight" via a chat room to some guy in India, and Phil's "online security team" (who apparently have some EXTREMELY sophisticated technology) found out. After learning that he was in a wheelchair and suffering from pancreatic cancer, Phil was gracious enough to settle out of court, cutting his original damage demand *nearly in half* - down to only six figures - and even offering to return my nephew's confiscated hardware, minus the hard drive of course. Many artists wouldn't be so gracious... And, of course, we mustn't forget Phil's tireless efforts on behalf of poor, struggling record-company executives - in one case, he even performed at a benefit concert for the head of his label, with as much as half the proceeds going to a fund to help fix the poor man's Bugatti and renovate his billiards room. He was even nice enough to schedule the event on the same night as a benefit for Rwandan refugee relief in the same town, just to make sure the unfortunate exec got his fair share of the charity "pie." So, yeah, I guess I like Phil Collins. He's never actually used physical violence against me or my family (at least not with modern, advanced weaponry), and I don't think you can really blame him for all the verbal and psychological abuse. After all, he's a very complex individual. Thank you, John Hedges PS: Oh wait, that was 2.50 *lire*, wasn't it... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:02:40 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Fad Gadget yeah , i saw fad at a dire club in birmingham called snobs in about 83/84. as there were all of about 10 people watching the band he threw everyone on stage for the encore (back to nature/rickys hand) and he took over the dancefloor on his own. sadly that wasn't when rob was in the band otherwise i guess i could say i'd performed on stage with mr gotobed. which would be another dubious boast to add to my collection. ps did anyone see rob play with fad? and is the album he plays on any good? i've got a few singles but i never heard any of the whole albums.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Fad Gadget Author: MIME:gil@nettalk.co.il at INTERNET Date: 06/04/2000 12:50 Well, no. Last time I heard of him was in a London gig about 8 years ago, when he went upstage with a half-full whisky bottle and finished it as the gig progressed. Eventually we (the audience) ended up pogoing on the stage while Mr. Tovey stood and watched us. Great gig. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:35:28 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Re[2]: Fad Gadget >>ps did anyone see rob play with fad? and is the album he plays on any good? i've got a few singles but i never heard any of the whole albums.p When was that? I saw Fad Gadget around 91-92, was he in the band then? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Fad Gadget Author: MIME:gil@nettalk.co.il at INTERNET Date: 06/04/2000 12:50 Well, no. Last time I heard of him was in a London gig about 8 years ago, when he went upstage with a half-full whisky bottle and finished it as the gig progressed. Eventually we (the audience) ended up pogoing on the stage while Mr. Tovey stood and watched us. Great gig. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:42:40 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: Fad Gadget no , i think it was even earlier than when i saw them. maybe 81/82. i saw fad about 3 times a bit after that, around the "i discover love" time , not sure who the drummer was but i'm sure it wasn't rob.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Re[2]: Fad Gadget Author: MIME:gil@nettalk.co.il at INTERNET Date: 06/04/2000 13:29 >>ps did anyone see rob play with fad? and is the album he plays on any good? i've got a few singles but i never heard any of the whole albums.p When was that? I saw Fad Gadget around 91-92, was he in the band then? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Fad Gadget Author: MIME:gil@nettalk.co.il at INTERNET Date: 06/04/2000 12:50 Well, no. Last time I heard of him was in a London gig about 8 years ago, when he went upstage with a half-full whisky bottle and finished it as the gig progressed. Eventually we (the audience) ended up pogoing on the stage while Mr. Tovey stood and watched us. Great gig. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 08:31:58 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: joy division moments in todays modern world I'm not surprised. I see cute goth chicks working in supermarkets all of the time.... I apologize to any women on the list who are offended by the word "chicks". marlon wrote: > i was in the frozen food section of a supermarket last summer. and overhead > the speakers started bleeding "love will tear us apart". the real work too, > not a muzak version. i was happy to hear it, but frightened by the location > and the fact that one of the most defining moments of my youth had been > reduced to supermarket fodder, background wallpaper interspersed with paging > requests for "all checkers to report to the front of the store". I' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:05:14 -0400 (EDT) From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: [none] forged)) by smtp.udac.se (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29104; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:03:31 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp1.udac.net (8.8.6/8.8.0) with UUCP id KAA05745; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:01:10 +0200 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 9:58:57 +0100 To: idealcopy@smoe.org, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re[2]: Band names MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: TFS Secure Messaging /222000000/222020954/222002769/222100545/ X-Mailer: Version 4.02 Build 135 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by smoe.org id EAA24617 Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk As for being "forerunners" of Blink 182, etc., I think you're gonna have to blame the Ramones for that, along with the Buzzcocks & possibly the Boys (not that most of these kids know that the Boys aren't just a recent Motown group). Dan >>>>> i'd have thought the buzzcocks would be way too "sensitive" for yer typical nu-punk fan. i thought that scene was all macho jocks , which is not exactly a good description of pete shelley. i was reading a newspaper this morning saying about how america is having a big movement fighting back against irony (seinfeld etc). maybe all these in-yer-face punk acts are part of this? hope these people don't try and cancel the wire tour as part of their masterplan......... p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:35:01 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[4]: Fad Gadget My impression, without digging into my record collection, is that he drummed for Tovey along about the time the latter was dropping the Fad Gadget appellation & starting to do stuff under his own name, circa '84-'85 (about the time Wire were re-forming, in other words). OK, I *will* dig into my collection. Let's see ... well, maybe not. The drummer on Snakes & Ladders appears to be Nick Cash, presumably an alumnus of 999. Guess Paul's right. I've got Fireside Favourites & Gag only on cassette, with no band info. Incontinent shows Gotobed on one track, Manual Dexterity ... the LP was recorded in the summer of '81. Dan >no , i think it was even earlier than when i saw them. maybe 81/82. i saw fad about 3 times a bit after that, around the "i discover love" time , not sure who the drummer was but i'm sure it wasn't rob.p > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: RE: Re[2]: Fad Gadget >Author: MIME:gil@nettalk.co.il at INTERNET >Date: 06/04/2000 13:29 > > >>>ps did anyone see rob play with fad? and is the album he plays on any good? i've got a few singles but i never heard any of the whole albums.p > >When was that? I saw Fad Gadget around 91-92, was he in the band then? > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: RE: Fad Gadget >Author: MIME:gil@nettalk.co.il at INTERNET Date: 06/04/2000 12:50 > > >Well, no. Last time I heard of him was in a London gig about 8 years ago, when he went upstage with a half-full whisky bottle and finished it as the gig progressed. Eventually we (the audience) ended up pogoing on the stage while Mr. Tovey stood and watched us. Great gig. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:42:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Mekons On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > The country stuff is more Langford (in the Waco Brothers & Pine Valley > Cosmonauts) & Sally Timms solo, these days ... The Mekons' "alternative > country" albums were limited to the mid-'80s, preceding that boomlet by > several years. Has been - but the new one _Journey to the End of the Night_ brings back a bit of the countryish sound. Actually, several songs also do the reggae-ish thing circa _So Good It Hurts_, so in some ways the album brings back a lot of '80s stuff they'd abandoned for quite some time. I like it. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::the sea is the night asleep in the daytime:: __Robert Desnos__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:06:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: The Passage Paul, << I too, once saw them live and still have a tape of the gig (waiting for me to get round to transferring onto CD). I remember the gig was a month before the second LP came out, and they played all new stuff. I shouted out "play some old songs Dick!", to which he replied "this is an old song - it was written two months ago". To be honest, I was a little disappointed at the time, but learned to love the songs, once I'd got the 2nd album. >> I guess we caught the same tour.... (about Feb/March 1981??). I saw them at Chorley Tatton Community Centre. The problem with playing old songs was that the first two singles were recored by version 1 of the band, the 1st album (pindrop) is basically a Dick Witts solo album and the third album (For All and none) is version 2 of the band (Witts/Andrew Wilson/Joey McKechnie)...who presumably didn't know any of the old songs..... One of those groups that sounded like nobody else, for sure....though the albums haven't worn as well as some of the other groups of that time that we've been discussing recently (eg Crispys/Comsats)....mainly because of the dated synth sounds?? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:05:05 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Mekons When I hear Journey -- which I must say I like a lot more than anything they've done since I (heart) Mekons -- I hear lots more So Good It Hurts than I do Fear & Whiskey, Edge of the World or Honky Tonkin, hence my comment. They have, of course, occasionally returned to the country-esque approach on subsequent albums, as with the covers of Wild & Blue on Curse (my favorite Mekons ever) & Point of No Return on I (heart). Dan >On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, tube disaster wrote: > >> The country stuff is more Langford (in the Waco Brothers & Pine Valley >> Cosmonauts) & Sally Timms solo, these days ... The Mekons' "alternative >> country" albums were limited to the mid-'80s, preceding that boomlet by >> several years. > >Has been - but the new one _Journey to the End of the Night_ brings back a >bit of the countryish sound. Actually, several songs also do the >reggae-ish thing circa _So Good It Hurts_, so in some ways the album >brings back a lot of '80s stuff they'd abandoned for quite some time. I >like it. > >--Jeff > >J e f f r e y N o r m a n >The Architectural Dance Society >www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html >::the sea is the night asleep in the daytime:: >__Robert Desnos__ > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:04:15 +0100 From: Stuart Fairbrother Subject: bargains? My guess is that everyone on this site owns these, but incase not... Carbon Disks are offering Ideal Copy and A Bell is a Cup for £6.99 during April.(Along with other Mute/Nova Mute/Blast First stuff). Credit Card Tel/Fax Line: +44 (0)1263 515963 http://www.carbondisks.com email: data@carbondisks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:47:48 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: all time flops well having been challenged to come up with my all-time 5 worst purchases i went home last night and studied my collection. i must concede i have made some hideous errors and i've also accumulated some dire items i didn't buy , this lot i was actually stupid enough to part with money for ; 1. adam ant ; strip god , this is dire. had to include it for you phil collins fans as the great man produces and drums on this tragic disc. i used to love adam when i was about 15 (dirk wears white sox and earlier) , i'd still stick up for that era. in 79/80 i was into post-punk stuff like this then the killing joke/bauhaus/uk decay/theatre of hate end of things. i guess that's my problem with the comsats/sound/chamaeleons stuff , back then it wasn't punky enough for me and now it just sounds thin and dated. but i digress. then adam got huge , then he went down the pan. at that point i furtively picked up all his albums (about 50p each , demand was not huge....) to check they weren't neglected classics. and they were not. this one is the prize turkey , it comes with a lovely poster of adam with flies undone fondling himself , so phil c was not the only prick on show :-) "prince charming" is almost as bad , with ex-vibrator gary tibbs on bass too. 2. morrissey ; kill uncle i was never a huge fan of the smiths at the time , but afterwards i warmed to them. viva hate is pretty good too. then he fell out with vinni reilly/stephen street and recruited his bunch of butch young rockabillies for this disaster area. its only (thankfully) about half an hour long , no tunes , no ideas , pathetic. and with "asian rut" as the usual right-wing flirtation. can there be a more bitter guy in the whole of pop music? 3. zoviet france ; collusion now i bet someone on this list is a fan of this. sorry , i can't see anything here at all. yawn 4. stretcheads ; phish in your sleazebag now this lot supported wir at clapham (i saw you) and i thought they were great. what went wrong? this album is an unlistenable racket , is it a different line-up or something? really disappointing 5. keith levine ; violent opposition i used to really admire kl , really wish i'd never heard this half-baked effort. he does all these awful covers like "liquidator" and "when six was nine" , just sounding like someone who's lost it completely. avoid like plague. (pil's "live in tokyo" and "9" ran this close btw) i've probably forgotten a few , and i let utah saints off another slagging (dunno why. after their latest comeback i guess it'd be cruel to make them suffer any more rejection though). anyone else sitting on stuff that's equally cringe-worthy? p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:09:28 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: all time flops paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > > > 2. morrissey ; kill uncle > i was never a huge fan of the smiths at the time , but afterwards i warmed to them. viva hate is pretty good too. then he fell out with vinni reilly/stephen street and recruited his bunch of butch young rockabillies for this disaster area. its only (thankfully) about half an hour long , no tunes , no ideas , pathetic. and with "asian rut" as the usual right-wing flirtation. can there be a more bitter guy in the whole of pop music? > Yup, I reckon Mike Oldfield is as bitter and self-pitying as they come. I heard him on the radio slagging off Richard Branson, and even though "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", Oldfield came across as a royal prat. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:39:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Charles G Waldman Subject: where to start > Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 21:45:38 -0500 > From: Miles Goosens > Subject: Re: Pent-up responses to many recent topics > > I think the topic was where to start with Wire, not what the best one > was. Else I would have said A BELL IS A CUP and 154 (with my other > suggestions, CHAIRS MISSING and THE IDEAL COPY, right behind). Well, why not start with the very best? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 15:47:48 -0400 From: Casper Milquetoast Subject: Re: where to start I've found when trying to get people to like a band it is often best to show them a place to gain a good foothold and wait for the best material later to further impress the hell out of them. I've recently gotten a friend into Fugazi, I could have given him Red Medicine or the Instrument soundtrack. Instead I went with a somewhat weak album in comparison to both, End Hits. He loved End Hits and went ape shit over the other two that I gave him. You just shouldn't grab the best and expect a person to have respect for a band afterward because everything is a decline after that for them. But still, what is best is different for everyone. casper Charles G Waldman wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 21:45:38 -0500 > > From: Miles Goosens > > Subject: Re: Pent-up responses to many recent topics > > > > I think the topic was where to start with Wire, not what the best one > > was. Else I would have said A BELL IS A CUP and 154 (with my other > > suggestions, CHAIRS MISSING and THE IDEAL COPY, right behind). > > Well, why not start with the very best? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:32:16 +0100 From: "Michel Faber" Subject: Re: Morrissey's purportedly anti-Asian rut Paul (listing worst records he'd ever bought) wrote: >morrissey ; kill uncle > i was never a huge fan of the smiths at the time, but afterwards i >warmed to them. viva hate is pretty good too. then he fell out with >vinni reilly/stephen street and recruited his bunch of butch young >rockabillies for this disaster area. its only (thankfully) about half an >hour long , no tunes , no ideas , pathetic. and with "asian rut" as >the usual right-wing flirtation. can there be a more bitter guy >in the whole of pop music? There is good reason for Morrissey to be bitter. He has been treated shamefully by the British music press, who have subjected him not just to their usual build-em-up-then-knock-em-down tactics but to a sustained hate campaign for ten years or more. What Morrissey was, and still is, being punished for, is his dislike of dance music (which was seen as an inherently racist reaction rather than a perfectly reasonable matter of personal taste) and, latterly, his refusal to say "Oh, I'm so sorry if my lyrics caused offence to anyone who might misread them". (Randy Newman went through the same thing with 'Short People' - he got death threats, for God's sake!) I wish this didn't need to be said, but 'Asian Rut' is actually not unsympathetic to Asians and 'The National Front Disco' (on Your Arsenal) is actually a piss-take of the attitudes of Little Englanders who might sing "We are the last truly English people you will ever know". There's also a song on Maladjusted called 'Ambitious Outsiders' which is sung in the persona of a paedophile looking forward to moving into a new neighbourhood. It's an extremely chilling song - the highlight, in fact, of a pretty weak album. All these songs employ IRONY. Irony - singing as if in the voice of a person whose views the writer doesn't at all share - is a powerful device, and has been used by such diverse artists as Morrissey, The Gang of Four, Randy Newman, Frank Zappa, Warren Zevon, Half Man Half Biscuit, The Passage, Loudon Wainwright III, Nick Cave, Bob Dylan, PIL, Robert Wyatt, etc etc - and Wire. Please, can we try to rise above the ignorant sniping that passes for music journalism in Britain and show these artists some respect for trying out lyrics that go beyond the "Everything I do, I do for you" brand of sentimentality. As for Morrissey's Kill Uncle being such a dreadful album, I personally think it's quite good, after it gets its lousy opening track out of the way. And it wasn't recorded with "butch young rockabillies" - they came later - it was recorded with (and co-written by) Mark Nevin of Fairground Attraction. Yes, I agree it's a step down from Viva Hate (or Education In Reverse, as my Australian copy is titled), and yes, it is a very short album. But please, please, let's lay this notion of Morrissey being some kind of racist thug to rest. Best wishes, Michel Faber ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:37:40 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [none] - -0500 Date: 06 Apr 2000 14:45:04 -0500 Message-ID: <-1257090194jsteinmann@clynch.com> From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: where to start To: Charles G Waldman CC: X-Mailer: QuickMail Pro 2.0.4 (Mac) X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Jack Steinmann Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk If you start with the best the only way forward is down. Jack Charles G Waldman wrote: > > I think the topic was where to start with Wire, not what the best one=20 > > was. > >Well, why not start with the very best? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 18:32:34 -0400 From: Casper Milquetoast Subject: Clash of the Titans A dumb off subject post but this comes from a conversation i had with some friends the other night. Who would win in a fight? Morrissey or Robert Smith? I said Peter Murphy would win, but I just like Bauhaus. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:51:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Super Stardom Syndromania On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Casper Milquetoast wrote: > "What? Of course I'm selling out! I've waited years for this, let me > tell all of you this: Being poor sucks." the difference between being poor and selling out is pretty big. most people live in the middle. i don't know exactly how much money Phil Collins makes, but i suspect that if that money were divided among 25 other worthier musicians, they'd all be doing pretty nicely. the problem with being poor isn't that you don't get to have eight motorboats. it's that you don't get to eat. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:59:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Clash of the Titans On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Casper Milquetoast wrote: > A dumb off subject post but this comes from a conversation i had with > some friends the other night. > > Who would win in a fight? Morrissey or Robert Smith? Hmmm...tough call. Morrissey's a bit more solidly built (i.e., Smith unsuccessfully hides the extra weight he's bee carrying for several years), but Smith's hair is a more formidable weapon than Morrissey's. Morrissey's wedge can cut deeply but must be manoeuvred into an optimal position, whereas Smith's multi-bladed mop of razor-sharpened solidified hairspray can be deadly from any angle. I'd either give Smith the edge or assume both would have such sympathy for what a sad loser the other is that they'd collapse in a sweaty heap and write a song in E minor together. - --Jeff who, to be fair, owns several albums by both artists J e f f r e y N o r m a n matches? The Architectural Dance Society candles? www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html matches? candles? buns? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:09:42 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: Ex-Lion Tamers Says here in the free Chicago newspaper The Reader that Chicago rock critic Jim DeRogatis was indeed the Richard Gotobed (drums) in the Ex-Lion Tamers "a cover band that toured with Wire [in the 1980s] to play the popular early material Wire no longer performed." Has anybody ever heard this certainly unique cover band? From my understanding, they did the entire Pink Flag album, except for the song "Ex-Lion Tamer." (Or am I confusing this with Laibach's "Let It Be," which covers that album except for the song "Let It Be?" These cross cultural band references can be confusing after awhile.) This might explain DeRogatis' dislike of later Wire: he praises Gotobed until the very end, blaming Gotobed's departure for the final demise of the Stage II band. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:03:24 -0500 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: ReALLY: OT:Class Action Suit Against Wallace & Gromit Haters You meed's to check out Neon Genesis Evangelion If only for the 13 versions of 'Fly Me To The Moon' From: "Ciscon, Ray" > At least you got the 'mindless' part of anime correct. With the exception of > 'Akira' and 'Ghost in the Shell', most anime I've seen is exactly that, > mindless shite. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:12:47 -0500 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: Re: Band names What's worse is in 20-30 years you'll have to deal with "That 90's Show" From: "Casper Milquetoast" > I swear i hate my generation. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:01:11 -0400 From: Casper Milquetoast Subject: This message has no subject *shudders and forces back a tear for the absolute horror that is 90% of modern culture, for the sitcoms, for the pop singles, for the beautiful people splashed in front of us telling us one thing: WE ARE NOT PRETTY ENOUGH! I knowing swearing is looked down upon on the list due to things I've said before but I only have to utter one heartfelt and mournful word to describe my feelings about the millions of teenagers that I've grown up with... Fuck. But then of course knowing that most of the people on this list seem to age several years over myself, I can safely say at least I did not live with the full force trauma that was disco. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA *BREATH!* BAWHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH oh well, time to eat some pretzels. casper MackDaddyD wrote: > > What's worse is in 20-30 years you'll have to deal with "That 90's Show" > > From: "Casper Milquetoast" > > I swear i hate my generation. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:12:39 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: This message has no subject > >But then of course knowing that most of the people on this list seem to >age several years over myself, I can safely say at least I did not live >with the full force trauma that was disco. Disco? Twenty-odd years later, I've got no problem with disco. So-called prog rock & Steely Dan & crap like that ... *that*'s what made punk necessary. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:36:40 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: ReALLY: OT:Class Action Suit Against Wallace & Gromit Haters Thank you Ray. You hit the nail on the head. MackDaddyD wrote: > You meed's to check out Neon Genesis Evangelion > If only for the 13 versions of 'Fly Me To The Moon' > > From: "Ciscon, Ray" > > At least you got the 'mindless' part of anime correct. With the exception > of > > 'Akira' and 'Ghost in the Shell', most anime I've seen is exactly that, > > mindless shite. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:30:36 -0400 From: Casper Milquetoast Subject: Re: This message has no subject That is such a great thing. Disco Riot sounds like a great name for some crust band. Pittsburgh used to have a band called Disco Crisis, I don't know what happened to them though. I really wouldn't mind seeing rave culture stamped out like the bad weed it is. It's not as bad as disco, but it's going to get there. Anyone care to join in the revolution? casper george.m.hook@ac.com wrote: > > Ah, yes, but remember how it all ended? > > 7. 1979: Disco Demolition Night > The Disco Era was fading and Mike Veeck, > director of promotions for the Chicago White Sox, had a grand idea: > the Sox would sell 98-cent tickets to any fan bringing a disco record > to Comiskey Park and between games of a doubleheader, > the records would be blown up. Except the promotion turned into a riot, > as fans began burning and flinging their records. > The field was destroyed, the Sox had to forfeit the second game, > Veeck quit his job in embarrassment and started drinking. > Soon, his father, Bill, sold the team. > > That almost killed off the dreaded scourge. But now, they are singing YMCA in > baseball parks! > IN BASEBALL PARKS!!!! What we need is Disco Demolition Night II, and > invite N'Sync and Backstreet Boys as guest victims....... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:38:09 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: Band names You don't have a generation to hate. MackDaddyD wrote: > What's worse is in 20-30 years you'll have to deal with "That 90's Show" > > From: "Casper Milquetoast" > > I swear i hate my generation. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:39:04 -0400 From: Casper Milquetoast Subject: keywordstodefinenotions http://www.radiohead.com/prime2.html not sure what to think, but being a wire fan it struck me as weird, somewhat, actually i don't know what the hell i'm thinking. casper ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:48:54 -0700 From: Brian Barnett Subject: Re: This message has no subject You didn't live with disco, who are you kidding ! Casper Milquetoast wrote: > *shudders and forces back a tear for the absolute horror that is 90% of > modern culture, for the sitcoms, for the pop singles, for the beautiful > people splashed in front of us telling us one thing: WE ARE NOT PRETTY > ENOUGH! I knowing swearing is looked down upon on the list due to things > I've said before but I only have to utter one heartfelt and mournful > word to describe my feelings about the millions of teenagers that I've > grown up with... > > Fuck. > > But then of course knowing that most of the people on this list seem to > age several years over myself, I can safely say at least I did not live > with the full force trauma that was disco. > HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA *BREATH!* > BAWHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH > > oh well, time to eat some pretzels. > > casper > > MackDaddyD wrote: > > > > What's worse is in 20-30 years you'll have to deal with "That 90's Show" > > > > From: "Casper Milquetoast" > > > I swear i hate my generation. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 07 Apr 2000 00:03:05 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Ex-Lion Tamers Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I believe Ex-Lion Tamers opened for Wire on the ABIACUIIS tour, which I saw at First Avenue here in Minneapolis. (It was a while ago.) Jack george.m.hook@ac.com wrote: >the Ex-Lion Tamers "a cover >band that toured with Wire [in the 1980s] to play the popular early material >Wire no longer performed." Has anybody ever heard this certainly unique cover >band? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 01:13:30 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: Non Wire, but .... First Gary Glitter, now this ..... STEVE STRANGE ADMITS STEALING TELLYTUBBY STEVE STRANGE, lead singer with former New Romantic trailblazers VISAGE, was today given a suspended jail sentence for shoplifting. Strange, real name Steve Harrington, had been arrested for the theft of a Tellytubby doll worth £10.99 from a shop in Bridgend, south Wales. On his arrest, the singer was found to have been on a shoplifting spree. He admitted stealing the Tellytubby doll, a £25 cosmetics gift set from Boots in Bridgend and asked for another three offences to be taken into consideration. It also emerged that at the time of arrest he was on bail for the theft of a ladies jacket, worth £15, from a Marks and Spencer store in Cardiff. Strange's solicitor, Mel Butler, told Bridgend Magistrates Court: "He has found it difficult to cope with falling from grace after being a man of considerable wealth in the Eighties." He also appealed for leniency claiming "there is a substantial risk of self-harm if he is sent to prison." In court Strange admitted to all the counts of theft. Magistrates sentenced him to a three month jail sentence, suspended for a year. Strange had enjoyed success in the late seventies and early eighties. Emerging from London club 'Billys', the venue is largely credited with being the birthplace for the look and synth-pop sound of New Romantics, he formed Visage. Featuring Ultravox mainman Midge Ure and former Magazine bass player (laterly of the Bad Seeds) Barry Adamson, the group enjoyed a No. 2 hit in 1980 with 'Fade To Grey. They split in 1982. Strange is currently unemployed. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #91 ******************************