From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #85 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, April 4 2000 Volume 03 : Number 085 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Other bands [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] other bands ["andy and sheri wiseman" ] Re: Other bands [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: Gang Of Four ["Michel Faber" ] Re: Other bands [Steve Finch ] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #84 [Howard Spencer ] Re: Other bands [Carl Archer ] Re: Wire for beginners [Wireviews ] RE: Wire for beginners ["giluz" ] Re:chameleons (was: Other bands) ["tube disaster" ] Re: Gang Of Four ["tube disaster" ] Re: Other bands ["tube disaster" ] Re: Other bands [Jack Steinmann ] Re: Other bands ["tube disaster" ] Re: Other bands ["tube disaster" ] Re: Other bands ["tube disaster" ] Re: Other bands [Aaron Mandel ] wire for beginners/other bands ["andy and sheri wiseman" ] I Like Manscape (mostly) [MihokoMk@aol.com] re: Wire for beginners [Joshua ] re: Wire for beginners [Jack Steinmann ] re: Wire for beginners [Joshua ] Re: Other bands [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Other bands [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: I Like Manscape (mostly) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Other bands [MarkBursa@aol.com] Oh dear... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Gang Of Four [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re[2]: Other bands [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[2]: Other bands [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: wire for beginners/other bands [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:46:13 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Other bands the first 3 i would definitely lump in together , they were the sort of post-echo atb acts who never quite made it to the big time. whereas the go4 were one of the best post-punk acts , the first lp was really fabulous ground-breaking stuff and (along with their peel sessions cd) i would recommend it absolutely. they had some real power to them , something the other 3 acts never really whipped up imo. p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Other bands Author: MIME:jasonmb@calweb.com at INTERNET Date: 03/04/2000 03:37 Someone recommended these bands to me on a Joy Division mailing list: The Chameleons The Sound Comsat Angels Gang of Four Can anyone comment on them? I've read their biographies at www.ubl.com, and they all sound like bands I would like, but I haven't heard any of their work. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:04:36 +0100 From: "andy and sheri wiseman" Subject: other bands though not i'm not keen on the other bands listed i would recommend the gang of four to anyone.the first 7" "damaged goods" is a gem and the follow up"at home he's a tourist"is even better.the story goes that they were booked to perform on "top of the pops"(mimed early evening pop music show)but refused to drop the line".....rubbers in his top left pocket."so they in turn were dropped from the schedule."entertainment" is a must,it's chanted left-wing politics are not to everyone's taste but the sound is exhilarating,angular and stunted.there's a fine compilation available probably mid-priced. yours a.w ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:03:45 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: Other bands I can thoroughly recommend The Chameleons. I have 6 of their releases (this includes rare & live releases) and can honestly say that 5 of them are excellent. OK so it is an 80's sound but if you're looking for a melodic guitar band then these are for you. The following is from http://www.inthe80s.com/music.shtml (an internet site dedicated to the 80's): The Chameleons (UK) Albums: Nostalgia "EP" / 1982, Script of the Bridge / 1984, What Does Anything Mean, Basically? / 1985, Strange Times / 1986 Where Are They Now?: Vocalist Mark Burgess continues to record as a solo artist. History: After breaking up The Chameleons in early 1987, vocalist Mark Burgess formed the group "The Sun and the Moon" and lasted through two albums until 1990 when Burgess went solo. Opinions: The beautiful ballad "Tears" is easily their best song. Although ranked second best, "Up the Down Escalator" is a great hard rock song that was overlooked in the eighties. Opinions: Probably one of the most underappreciated bands of the 80's. However, a cult following has produced more than 15 separate compilations to complement the 4 or 5 studio efforts produced between 1984 and 1986. Somebody out there is listening. Anyway, I wouldn't have it any other way. It's great that one can grab these albums and have an experience few others can relate to. By the way, who was it that said they were re-forming for a gig this year??? Chris. jasonmb@calweb.com on 03/04/2000 01:14:36 To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: Other bands Someone recommended these bands to me on a Joy Division mailing list: The Chameleons The Sound Comsat Angels Gang of Four Can anyone comment on them? I've read their biographies at www.ubl.com, and they all sound like bands I would like, but I haven't heard any of their work. Thanks! - -- Jason Borchers jasonmb@calweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:59:29 +0100 From: "Michel Faber" Subject: Re: Gang Of Four Andy Wiseman wrote: >the story goes that they (Gang of Four) were booked to perform on >"top of the pops"(mimed early evening pop music show) but >refused to drop the line".....rubbers in his top left pocket."so they in >turn were dropped from the schedule. The story as Hugo Burnham (Gang of Four drummer) tells it is slightly more complex than this. The band were well aware, in advance, that they wouldn't get away with singing "the rubbers you hide in your top left pocket" on BBC television. So, specially for the TOTP appearance, they pre-recorded an alternative to the problematic phrase - "the packets you hide", which they felt was suitably suggestive but subtle enough not to offend anyone. However, when they turned up at the studio on the afternoon of their mime/performance, they were confronted by a producer who had a brilliant plan to get the BBC off the hook from any accusation of censorship. 'Lads, how about re-recording the vocal a second time, and having 'rubbish' instead of 'packets'?' That way, the fans and critics could imagine they'd heard 'rubbers', while Mrs and Mrs Normal having their tea could hear 'rubbish'. At this suggestion, the band's tolerance snapped and they walked out. Dan wrote: >Second album, Solid Gold, is quite a comedown, though What We >All Want is about as good as anything they've ever done. Third >album marks a pretty nice comeback, with I Love a Man in a >Uniform being an actual semi-hit in the US. Fourth album, Hard, >was empty dross. A couple of comeback LPs in the '90s, >Mall & Shrinkwrapped, were better than Hard, but nothing to get >esp. excited about. Couple of good tracks, though. I haven't heard Shrinkwrapped, but I think Mall is a great, great album, which just happened to come out at the wrong time. It does everything that U-2's Zooropa does, and does it better, a few years earlier. Also in my opinion Hard isn't as bad as all that, though calling it Hard was a perverse move given that it was softer than any of the other Gang of Four records. Compared to Entertainment it's not much chop, but compared to the dance stuff that was coming out at the same time (which it was trying to muscle in on and subvert) it was pretty radical. I guess it comes down to the old argument of indie purity versus cross-over infiltration. Wire's 'So and Slow It Goes' is pallid and uninteresting compared to their spikier advantures, but it did get played in places where Wire wouldn't otherwise have penetrated. Similarly, Malcolm McLaren's opera/disco records ('Madam Butterfly', 'Carmen', etc) may not have challenged the music industry in the way that the Sex Pistols did, but how wonderful to think of clubgoers in the Bronx dancing to Puccini and Bizet arias. Similar thing with the Gang of Four's Hard. Great to think of a motormouth American DJ introducing 'Is It Love', only to be followed by the Gang of Four's dry, dry deadpan delivery and feedback textures. Best wishes, Michel Faber ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:33:38 +0100 From: Steve Finch Subject: Re: Other bands All 4 bands have produced great stuff, all seriously under-rated. Comsats from Sheffield, 'Waiting for a miracle' was their best album product, I believe they had to change their name for the US market, due to the trademark on 'Comsat'. C-angels?. This band like Wire, were excellent lyricists, quirky catchy songs. I still don't know why they failed to get the recognition they deserved. the Sound were ok too, sadly the lead singer- Adrian Borland committed suicide last year .'Party of my Mind' was a great single. Fairly basic angst ridden rock . the Chameleons were brilliant!! I recommend checking them out, without hesiatation. Their songs always had a great build up to a wall of sound guitar crescendo..album 'Script of the bridge' is a notable masterpiece. In message , jasonmb@calweb.com writes >Someone recommended these bands to me on a Joy Division mailing list: > >The Chameleons >The Sound >Comsat Angels >Gang of Four > >Can anyone comment on them? I've read their biographies at www.ubl.com, >and they all sound like bands I would like, but I haven't heard any of >their work. > >Thanks! > >-- >Jason Borchers >jasonmb@calweb.com > > - -- Steve Finch Direct line tel 01293 425007 Assistant General Manager Admin line tel 01293 425049 Touchdown WTS. 8-9 Magellan Terrace,Gatwick Rd,Crawley,W.Sussex,RH10 2PJ Website www.touchdown.co.uk Fax 01293 521144 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 12:44:22 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #84 I've stuck up for Manscape before and I'll do it again - and especially 'Life in the Manscape', which a reviewer at the time called `a hit single in a parallel universe'. Agreed, though the mix could be better, for certain, and the 12" mix is no more than a curiosity. Other favourite tracks of mine are `Morning bell', `children of groceries' and 'you have hung your lights in the trees'. I think it's the wierd noises colliding with melody that I go for. Or something like that. Chairs missing was the first of the harvest albums I heard and i'd recommend that to anyone else catching up with history. Was anyone else introduced to Wire, as I was, by a 1985 mini album compilation called 'Wire play pop'? A good, if narrow selection. Another thought (with anorak fully zipped) - is the Manscape out-take `It can't be true can it?' (on Coatings) the only track to feature vocal contributions from Colin, Graham AND Bruce (I'm sure it's Bruce, vocodered, growling away in there)? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:19:59 -0400 From: Carl Archer Subject: Re: Other bands The so-called "alternative" radio station here (http://www.fm1063.com) still plays The Chameleons UK's "Swamp Thing" on occasion. This is fairly surprising since they rarely play older songs that weren't really that popular. Back when "Eardrum Buzz" was released, they had Wire in regular rotation, but only would play songs from the 1985+ incarnation. > From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:03:45 +0100 > To: jasonmb@calweb.com > Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Other bands > > > > > I can thoroughly recommend The Chameleons. I have 6 of their releases (this > includes rare & live releases) and can honestly say that 5 of them are > excellent. OK so it is an 80's sound but if you're looking for a melodic > guitar band then these are for you. > The following is from http://www.inthe80s.com/music.shtml (an internet site > dedicated to the 80's): > > The Chameleons (UK) > > Albums: Nostalgia "EP" / 1982, Script of the Bridge / 1984, What Does > Anything Mean, Basically? / 1985, Strange Times / 1986 > > Where Are They Now?: Vocalist Mark Burgess continues to record as a solo > artist. > > History: After breaking up The Chameleons in early 1987, vocalist Mark > Burgess formed the group "The Sun and the Moon" and lasted through two > albums until 1990 when Burgess went solo. > > Opinions: The beautiful ballad "Tears" is easily their best song. > Although ranked second best, "Up the Down Escalator" is a great hard > rock song that was overlooked in the eighties. > > Opinions: Probably one of the most underappreciated bands of the 80's. > However, a cult following has produced more than 15 separate > compilations to complement the 4 or 5 studio efforts produced between > 1984 and 1986. Somebody out there is listening. Anyway, I wouldn't have > it any other way. It's great that one can grab these albums and have an > experience few others can relate to. > > By the way, who was it that said they were re-forming for a gig this > year??? > > Chris. > > > > > > jasonmb@calweb.com on 03/04/2000 01:14:36 > > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) > > Subject: Other bands > > > > > Someone recommended these bands to me on a Joy Division mailing list: > > The Chameleons > The Sound > Comsat Angels > Gang of Four > > Can anyone comment on them? I've read their biographies at www.ubl.com, > and they all sound like bands I would like, but I haven't heard any of > their work. > > Thanks! > > -- > Jason Borchers > jasonmb@calweb.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:42:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: Re: Wire for beginners Bit of a late 2p, but here I go... Despite the fact that I think they are rather redundant records, the best Wire starting points are the A List and On Returning as they give a good selection of works from 1977-1990, probably not all the best, but many of them nonetheless. The only problem is that First Letter material is absent from both. If you want a "leaping on" point for the solo stuff try the following (doubtless to be disagreed with by everyone!): Bruce: This way to the Shivering Man & Ab Ovo Graham: Hox Colin: Not To/Singing Fish CD & Bastard Swim Records: Swim Team One. Craig/Wireviews. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:18:34 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: Wire for beginners >If you want a "leaping on" point for the solo stuff >try the following (doubtless to be disagreed with by >everyone!): >Colin: Not To/Singing Fish CD & Bastard >Swim Records: Swim Team One. >Craig/Wireviews. Personally I prefer Colin's A-Z and Commercial Suicide, but all the rest are brilliant as well. giluz ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:24:18 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re:chameleons (was: Other bands) > >By the way, who was it that said they were re-forming for a gig this >year??? > >Chris. > That would be me.From a past post on www.bigtakeover.com (Jack Rabid, who's been doing the zine The Big Takeover [the best in the US, I'd say] for about 20 years now, is a *massive* Chameleons -- & Sound, & Comsats, & Go4, & for that matter Wire, though I don't think he's into the second-incarnation stuff -- fan who in fact in responsible for my getting into them & the Sound ... if memory serves, the first issue I ever picked up, back in 8/88 or so, was mouring their breakups) -- >>Though details are sketchy, the Chameleons (known in the U.S. as the Chameleons U.K.) have reformed with all four members intact from the lineup that made their three proper LPs, 1983-1987. For now, the reconstructed group will play three shows in their native Greater Manchester, England, May 14-16 at a small club called The Witchwood, Ashton On Lyne, and are considering recording an unplugged LP of old songs. For those who have followed the group and are aware of the incredible, protracted animosity that existed between the members for the 14 years they were apart, this is most surprising. At present, there are no plans to tour the U.S.<< ------------------------------ Date: 03 Apr 2000 11:29:37 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Other bands The Comsats had a long and troubled history but they turned out some great work along the way. "Sleep No More" is a blistering album with the coolest drums (recorded down an elevator shaft) you'll ever hear. Very dark. If you run across it, grab it. jasonmb@calweb.com wrote: >Comsat Angels > > >Can anyone comment on them? I've read their biographies at www.ubl.com, >and they all sound like bands I would like, but I haven't heard any of >their work. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:27:08 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Gang Of Four >>I haven't heard Shrinkwrapped, but I think Mall is a great, great album, which just happened to come out at the wrong time. It does everything that U-2's Zooropa does, and does it better, a few years earlier. << Actually, my favorite Mall track isn't *on* Mall ... it's the Cadillac (fine song itself) B-side, Favourites. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:31:08 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Other bands >Comsats from Sheffield, 'Waiting for a miracle' was their best album >product, I believe they had to change their name for the US market, due >to the trademark on 'Comsat'. C-angels?. CS Angels, actually. This band like Wire, were >excellent lyricists, quirky catchy songs. I still don't know why they >failed to get the recognition they deserved. One thing I should've mentioned in my original response is that unlike all too many bands that've hung around for a couple of decades, after a somewhat lax period in the '80s their recent stuff is quite worthwhile. That I've heard, anyway (have they done anything since The Glamour back in '95?). Dan ------------------------------ Date: 03 Apr 2000 11:42:59 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: Re: Other bands After "The Glamour" Stephen Fellows packed it in and now (I am told) manages Gomez. Jack tube disaster wrote: >their [Comsats'] recent stuff is quite worthwhile. That I've >heard, anyway (have they done anything since The Glamour back >in '95?). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:46:23 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Other bands The only one of their early classics that I have on vinyl, as it happens (well, along with the Enz collection, which turned up in a gigantic LP & 12" haul I made last summer) -- the others I've got on CD reissue (with all sorts of cool bonus tracks, liner notes, graphics, etc). Dan >The Comsats had a long and troubled history but they turned out some great work along the way. "Sleep No More" is a blistering album with the coolest drums (recorded down an elevator shaft) you'll ever hear. Very dark. If you run across it, grab it. > > >jasonmb@calweb.com wrote: >>Comsat Angels >> >> >>Can anyone comment on them? I've read their biographies at www.ubl.com, >>and they all sound like bands I would like, but I haven't heard any of >>their work. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:48:48 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Other bands >Someone recommended these bands to me on a Joy Division mailing list: Speaking of which ... *what* Joy Division mailing list? The one I'm on does well to generate a message every 6 months -- it's about as active as Ian Curtis. Pink Flag, as it happens, is the only album that ranks above Unknown Pleasures in my personal pantheon of all-time great LPs. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:03:39 -0700 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Other bands Great album, but it's got a couple of songs I get nothing at all out of, including the opener, Atrocity Exhibition. Can't say that about anything on Unknown Pleasures. Dan >>No "Closer?" Jack tube disaster wrote: >Pink Flag, as it happens, is the only album that ranks above Unknown >Pleasures in my personal pantheon of all-time great LPs. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:28:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Other bands On Sun, 2 Apr 2000 jasonmb@calweb.com wrote: > The Chameleons > The Sound > Comsat Angels > Gang of Four the first are both bleak in outlook but have a much thicker sound than Joy Division. i like listening to the Chameleons fine, but it won't be one of their lyrics on my tombstone, if you know what i mean. i haven't heard any of the recent Comsat Angels records, but the first one, Waiting For A Miracle, is totally classic. i wouldn't call them a Bunnymen ripoff either, since the two bands got their start at almost exactly the same time. Gang Of Four are a different sort of thing, much funkier than the Manchester guitar bands. the most recent two-disc collection covers everything you really need. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:17:26 +0100 From: "andy and sheri wiseman" Subject: wire for beginners/other bands of "unknown pleasures,closer,still" it's "closer" for me everytime.having said that the best of joy division are the singles "transmission","dead souls"and "atmosphere". but with Collins solo stuff it has to be "it seems". yours a.w ------------------------------ Date: 03 Apr 2000 15:07:08 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Wire for beginners I do chime in periodically to make a pitch for Manscape, the LP. It differs from Manscape, the CD, in that it sheds Life in the Manscape and Stampede (also, unfortunately, Children of Groceries) and in that the remaining ten tracks follow a completely different order. I suspect the LP is what Wire regarded as the proper release, and that the 13-track CD represented the best effort to graft onto it the contents of a potential single. The LP sequencing 'plays' better than the CD. Certainly Patterns of Behaviour makes for an excellent opening salvo. Jack Michel Faber wrote: >As for Manscape, which you mention as if it should be obvious that >anyone who rated it highly would be doing so only to be contrary, I >happen to think it's a great record. OK, somewhat bafflingly, it has a >really weak opening track, which probably put many hopeful >listeners off at the time of its release - 'Life In The Manscape' is a >fairly duff song, with woefully feeble drums, abysmally mixed. But >there's some magnificent stuff elsewhere on the album - track 2, the >wonderfully confident 'Stampede', should have been the opener, >then there's Graham's gloriously scathing 'Torch It!', Colin's sinuous >'Other Moments', and the superb sequence of the last four tracks... >Is it just me who likes Manscape? Do other Wire fans really think >it's so bad? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:44:08 EDT From: MihokoMk@aol.com Subject: I Like Manscape (mostly) >Is it just me who likes Manscape? Do other Wire fans really think it's so bad? No, Manscape is a fine record in itself, particularly 'Other Moments' and 'Craftsman'sTouch/Hung Your Lights' and that big whoosh of Wiresound on the intro to 'What Do You See?' always makes me want to listen to that track again. Perhaps you lot will think me too uncritical, but if it weren't for the utter perfection of all preceding Wire studio albums 'Manscape' wouldn't seem at all weak. It is a slightly flawed album. Colin Newman thinks it's very poorly mixed or so he said when I interviewed him - the interview can be found on my website www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine. That could be partly down to Colin being immersed in new technology and perhaps not registering the Gilbert/Lewis tendency to pull things into altogether stranger shapes. There is certainly a measure of compromise to be heard there, although the differences in the three Wir-men's approaches became way more pronounced on 'The First Letter' album. However this may have had some beneficial results. 'Sixth Sense' and the slightly absurd 'Where's the Deputation?' seem to thrive on these tensions, and the juxtaposition of Lewis' haughty declamations and Newman's increasingly introspective approach to singing on 'Craftsman's/Lights' is wonderful, as is Gotobed's singular drum program. Despite the odd dated piece ('Goodbye Ploy') I think 'Manscape' still sounds ahead of its time in the sense that Wire were merging the latest computer advances with their already highly idiosyncratic songforms. Put it this way: if they'd used the 'beat combo' approach the album would probably never have been made. >Re: Wire for beginners Agreed both 'Manscape' and 'D+E' are not the best places to start Wire investigations. I'd recommend the first three albums (preferably vinyl copies esp. 'Pink Flag' which sounds comparatively tinny on CD) and 'Ideal Copy' CD as all utterly essential to even the slightest understanding of where they're coming from. I started with 'Chair's Missing' because I wanted to be a fly in the ointment. >I've been playing D&E a lot lately, because I was thinking of getting rid of it (one of these 'I never play this record, maybe I should make some room on my shelves' purges). How anyone could even dream of purging 'Witness To The Fact' and 'Ally in Exile' from their shelves is beyond me - put up some more shelves! Don't Start Me Off, Fibreglass Messiah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:09:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Joshua Subject: re: Wire for beginners On 3 Apr 2000, Jack Steinmann wrote: > I do chime in periodically to make a pitch for Manscape, the LP. It > differs from Manscape, the CD, in that it sheds Life in the Manscape and > Stampede (also, unfortunately, Children of Groceries) and in that the > remaining ten tracks follow a completely different order. > > I suspect the LP is what Wire regarded as the proper release, and that > the 13-track CD represented the best effort to graft onto it the > contents of a potential single. The LP sequencing 'plays' better than > the CD. Certainly Patterns of Behaviour makes for an excellent opening > salvo. Since I don't have a record player, would you send us the sequence so I can rearrange them in my CD player? Thanks, - -Joshua > > Jack > > > Michel Faber wrote: > >As for Manscape, which you mention as if it should be obvious that > >anyone who rated it highly would be doing so only to be contrary, I > >happen to think it's a great record. OK, somewhat bafflingly, it has a > >really weak opening track, which probably put many hopeful > >listeners off at the time of its release - 'Life In The Manscape' is a > >fairly duff song, with woefully feeble drums, abysmally mixed. But > >there's some magnificent stuff elsewhere on the album - track 2, the > >wonderfully confident 'Stampede', should have been the opener, > >then there's Graham's gloriously scathing 'Torch It!', Colin's sinuous > >'Other Moments', and the superb sequence of the last four tracks... > >Is it just me who likes Manscape? Do other Wire fans really think > >it's so bad? > > > ___ ___ http://www.swingpad.com (Digital Art and Artisanship) - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: 03 Apr 2000 16:17:22 -0500 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Wire for beginners I think it goes like this: Patterns Of Behaviour Goodbye Ploy Morning Bell Small Black Reptile Torch It Other Moments Sixth Sense What Do You See? (Welcome) Where's The Deputation? You Hung Your Lights In The Trees / A Craftsman's Touch Jack Joshua wrote: >Since I don't have a record player, would you send us the sequence so I >can rearrange them in my CD player? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:19:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Joshua Subject: re: Wire for beginners Cool, thanks. - -Joshua On 3 Apr 2000, Jack Steinmann wrote: > > I think it goes like this: > > Patterns Of Behaviour > Goodbye Ploy > Morning Bell > Small Black Reptile > Torch It > > Other Moments > Sixth Sense > What Do You See? (Welcome) > Where's The Deputation? > You Hung Your Lights In The Trees / A Craftsman's Touch > > > Jack > > > Joshua wrote: > >Since I don't have a record player, would you send us the sequence so I > >can rearrange them in my CD player? > > ___ ___ http://www.swingpad.com (Digital Art and Artisanship) - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:34:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Other bands Jack, >>The Comsats had a long and troubled history but they turned out some great work along the way. "Sleep No More" is a blistering album with the coolest drums (recorded down an elevator shaft) you'll ever hear. Very dark. If you run across it, grab it.<< Absolutely agree with you there. It's a wonderful record, and the Comsats are a tragically overlooked band. They were superb live as well, with possibly the heaviest rhythm section this side of Motorhead... (the other bands mentioned - Sound, Chameleons, Go4 - were all superb live too). Career ruined by record companies trying to make them into a pop group, and then a ridiculous court case with the ComSat Corporation (who should have been glad of the publicity!)which basically meant they had to change their name to CS Angels. they also tried a complete change and made an album as Dream Command, which is almost impossible to find and is by all accounts dismal. The first three albums were reissued on CD a while back and are all worth having - they include all the singles and B-sides of the time. Also the John Peel sesions were released a few years ago - also good. They made some lousy records too (avoid anything made between 1983 and 1992 except the album Chasing Shadows (an attempt to recapture the original concept in about 1987 - pretty god, though it came out as the legal shenanagins started....I found a mint copy in a record shop in Paris for 10 Francs about three years ago! Astonishingly, the band survived until 1995 - and got their act together - the last album, The Glamour, is a return to form, and well worth checking remaindered bins for. They packed it in after that and unfortunately don't seem likely to reform. Good Sheffield gloom bands...see also ClockDVA... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:44:37 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Other bands Aaron, << the first are both bleak in outlook but have a much thicker sound than Joy Division. i like listening to the Chameleons fine, but it won't be one of their lyrics on my tombstone, if you know what i mean.<< I'd say their sound was somewhere between The Jam and U2, with more introspective lyrics.... Great live. I booked them to play at my the Students Union bar once in about 1981..... >> i haven't heard any of the recent Comsat Angels records, but the first one, Waiting For A Miracle, is totally classic. i wouldn't call them a Bunnymen ripoff either, since the two bands got their start at almost exactly the same time.<< See my separate mail. Comsats and Bunnymen came from completely different directions, but got compared largely because their debut albums both started with tracks which faded in on feedback and drums...... Rather like Wire, Comsats were a bit older than the rest of the punk crowd. Nice, intelligent people too. Interviewed them once for a fanzine >>Gang Of Four are a different sort of thing, much funkier than the Manchester guitar bands. the most recent two-disc collection covers everything you really need. >> Just get the first two albums, and the EP that followed (History's Bunk). Forget the rest. Absolutely stunning live until they started trying to soften up the sound. Went down the pan the moment the line-up changed in my opinion. Peter Buck of REM claims Andy Gill is as big an influence on his playing as Roger McGuinn.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:51:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: I Like Manscape (mostly) << Colin Newman thinks it's very poorly mixed or so he said when I interviewed him - the interview can be found on my website www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine. >> Was it you who hard-sold me a copy of the fanzine after the RFH gig....not sure if you'd remember if you were the salesman, given the state you were in ;-) A good interview....when did you do it? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:04:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Other bands Jason, Try this one too - 'The Plateau Phase' by Crispy Ambulance. Apart from having the worst name of any band, ever, and starting off as very much a Joy Div copy band, the band evolved very quickly and operated much as Wire did - even more so in as much as just about every gig was a new set....They must have had at least four albums' worth of material.....they had probably discarded two albums' worth before they made the one they did. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:06:13 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Oh dear... All, Just heard the new Elastica album. Track 6 is credited to Matthews, Gilbert, Gotoben, Lewis, Newman. It's Lowdown. Track 7, however, is just credited to Matthews, despite being Kidney Bingos..... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:45:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Gang Of Four On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Michel Faber wrote: > Andy Wiseman wrote: > > >the story goes that they (Gang of Four) were booked to perform on > >"top of the pops"(mimed early evening pop music show) but > >refused to drop the line".....rubbers in his top left pocket."so they in > >turn were dropped from the schedule. > > So, specially for the TOTP appearance, they pre-recorded an > alternative to the problematic phrase - "the packets you hide", which > they felt was suitably suggestive but subtle enough not to offend > anyone. However, when they turned up at the studio on the > afternoon of their mime/performance, they were confronted by a > producer who had a brilliant plan to get the BBC off the hook from > any accusation of censorship. 'Lads, how about re-recording the > vocal a second time, and having 'rubbish' instead of 'packets'?' > That way, the fans and critics could imagine they'd heard 'rubbers', > while Mrs and Mrs Normal having their tea could hear 'rubbish'. > At this suggestion, the band's tolerance snapped and they walked > out. I think it's funnier (and incidentally, demonstrates more integrity - but don't bore me by arguing it) to have the soundalike word - devious pseudo-innocence vs. blatant avoidance. Sorta like - when Eno sings that line in "Burning Airlins" about "Newsweek on her knees": you can't help but hear "weak on her knees" there and imagine airsickness. (There's similar but saltier wordplay elsewhere in the song, too.) - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::SCENE 2: ::Aunt Fritzi applies lipstick in the mirror. In the next room, Sluggo ::removes his ever-present cap and blows his nose in a red handkerchief. ::Nancy enters the room and accuses Sluggo of stealing the donuts that ::Aunt Fritzi made for her. Sluggo looks at the clock, which reads 8:54, ::and says he'd better hurry or he'll be late for his trombone lesson. np: Wire _Third Day_ - thanks Miles! Didja get my package yet? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:06:56 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Other bands nice career move i'd say.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Other bands Author: MIME:jsteinmann@clynch.com at INTERNET Date: 03/04/2000 18:49 After "The Glamour" Stephen Fellows packed it in and now (I am told) manages Gomez. Jack tube disaster wrote: >their [Comsats'] recent stuff is quite worthwhile. That I've >heard, anyway (have they done anything since The Glamour back >in '95?). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:21:33 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Other bands i haven't heard any of the recent Comsat Angels records, but the first one, Waiting For A Miracle, is totally classic. i wouldn't call them a Bunnymen ripoff either, since the two bands got their start at almost exactly the same time. >>>>> maybe ripoff is a bit harsh but they ploughed pretty much the same furrow and shared a lot of fans. adrian borland used to bang on in quite a sad way about how eatb got famous on the back of mac's looks whereas he stayed poor due to being a bit of a fatty. never did frank black much harm.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:23:03 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: wire for beginners/other bands god i read that as phil collins and thought we had an infiltrator going to sing the praises of the drumming on "something in the air tonight". please spell colin correctly to save further shocks of this type. :-) p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: wire for beginners/other bands Author: MIME:andyandsheri@cwcom.net at INTERNET Date: 03/04/2000 20:22 of "unknown pleasures,closer,still" it's "closer" for me everytime.having said that the best of joy division are the singles "transmission","dead souls"and "atmosphere". but with Collins solo stuff it has to be "it seems". yours a.w ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #85 ******************************