From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #82 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, April 1 2000 Volume 03 : Number 082 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Re[2]: guitars on ebay ["Michel Faber" ] rejoin the redundant: Guitar(s) on eBay ["MackDaddyD" ] Re[4]: guitars on ebay [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: Re[2]: guitars on ebay [MarkBursa@aol.com] Ovation Breadwinner [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: guitars on ebay [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: guitars on ebay [ajwells@ix.netcom.com] Re: Ovation Breadwinner [ajwells@ix.netcom.com] Re: new to list - C. Newman & Janet Smith ["William Miller" ] Re: new to list - C. Newman & Janet Smith [Joshua ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:35:11 +0100 From: "Michel Faber" Subject: Re: Re[2]: guitars on ebay >For anyone who gives a hoot, Ovation only made solid body >electrics for a few years in the late seventies and early 80s... they >could only get Jim Messina and Danny Partridge to play them, so >they went down in flames... (a.j.wells) >er , who are jim messina and danny partridge ? (not one of the >partridge family shurely?)p Dear Paul, Jim Messina could be described as the man least likely to join Wire. He was very briefly a member of Buffalo Springfield and Poco, then formed country rock duo Loggins and Messina. They made a number of successful albums in the early seventies featuring their hay-chewin', doobie-smokin', moonshine-tokin' brand of music, and had a hit with the horrible 'Your Mama Don't Dance' in 1972. As musicians they were actually pretty good and one of their albums, Mother Lode, has aged well compared to the efforts of their peers (eg, The Eagles, Sutherland Brothers). After their demise as a duo, Kenny Loggins hit the big time with an abysmal jukebox favourite that I'm sure we all recall with a shudder, 'Footloose'. As for Danny Partridge, I don't know. I was a mere tot when The Partridge Family were on TV, but wasn't Danny the freckled prepubescent? And didn't he play the drums? It's all too long ago for me to remember... Still, from Ovation's point of view, I expect that having the instrument endorsed by a member of The Partridge Family would be scarcely better than being able to say "As played by Josie And The Pussycats!" However, it's not quite true to assert that Ovation could only get these two chaps to play their electrics at the time of their release. Jazz/fusion virtuosos Larry Coryell and Al Di Meola (also very unlikely, it has to be said, ever to get a phone call from Graham Lewis to replace Colin in Wire) used them. Best wishes, Michel Faber ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:57:33 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: guitars on ebay >For anyone who gives a hoot, Ovation only made solid body >electrics for a few years in the late seventies and early 80s... they >could only get Jim Messina and Danny Partridge to play them, so >they went down in flames... (a.j.wells) >er , who are jim messina and danny partridge ? (not one of the >partridge family shurely?)p Dear Paul, Jim Messina could be described as the man least likely to join Wire. He was very briefly a member of Buffalo Springfield and Poco, then formed country rock duo Loggins and Messina. They made a number of successful albums in the early seventies featuring their hay-chewin', doobie-smokin', moonshine-tokin' brand of music, and had a hit with the horrible 'Your Mama Don't Dance' in 1972. As musicians they were actually pretty good and one of their albums, Mother Lode, has aged well compared to the efforts of their peers (eg, The Eagles, Sutherland Brothers). After their demise as a duo, Kenny Loggins hit the big time with an abysmal jukebox favourite that I'm sure we all recall with a shudder, 'Footloose'. >>>>> oh god , kevin bacon. i remember watching canadian mtv and kev was a huge joke for reasons i didn't quite understand. they kept having a "kevin bacon moment" which involved that dire footloose tune. stuff like poco and loggins/messina had no impact in the uk at all btw. As for Danny Partridge, I don't know. I was a mere tot when The Partridge Family were on TV, but wasn't Danny the freckled prepubescent? And didn't he play the drums? It's all too long ago for me to remember... Still, from Ovation's point of view, I expect that having the instrument endorsed by a member of The Partridge Family would be scarcely better than being able to say "As played by Josie And The Pussycats!" >>>>> my memories of the PF are soooo vague , but if i was ovation i'd deny everything from what i remember. However, it's not quite true to assert that Ovation could only get these two chaps to play their electrics at the time of their release. Jazz/fusion virtuosos Larry Coryell and Al Di Meola (also very unlikely, it has to be said, ever to get a phone call from Graham Lewis to replace Colin in Wire) used them. >>>>> god save me from jazz fusion.p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 05:54:50 -0600 From: "webmaster" Subject: Chicago Drill Okay, I twisted her ear (actually begged on my knees) and it's an option. Yours truly and Wire Mail Order will host a "pre-show" party up in our neck of the woods. I think we can even burn a "special" cd-r for attendees to the occasion. enticement enough? Again, we're in Roscoe Village/North Center/Lakeview (in order of preference), and it's a straight shot east on Addison to Clark. Parking is plenty, and doesn't require a permit, and of course it's quite gentrified here, so feel safe. Food options are plenty, I like Dave's idea about pitching in on pizza. I must admit I've been filling orders for so many of you for so long, it will be fun to final meet! And there's an abundance of Wire memoribilia to put on display! Easiest way to disseminate information is anyone interested to send and email to chicago@wiremailorder.com - I'll get a mailing list togther. looking very forward to meeting all, charles / wmo shop@wiremailorder.com http://wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:17:31 -0600 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: rejoin the redundant: Guitar(s) on eBay > >>>>> god save me from jazz fusion.p god has saved us all fron jazzFusion let us give thanks now if we could just see about the absurd nomenclature if *acid jazz* being applied to drek popJazz pleeze big fella? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:49:55 -0500 From: "Sampson, James O." Subject: RE: Re[2]: guitars on ebay Ovation was actually the "corporate sponsor" of the Partridge Family TV show. Anytime a guitar was featured during the show, it had to be an Ovation. Whether it was Keith (David Cassidy) or Danny (Danny Bonnaduce)... Jim (in NYC) - -----Original Message----- From: Michel Faber [mailto:michelfaber@ablach.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 4:35 AM To: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: Re[2]: guitars on ebay >For anyone who gives a hoot, Ovation only made solid body >electrics for a few years in the late seventies and early 80s... they >could only get Jim Messina and Danny Partridge to play them, so >they went down in flames... (a.j.wells) >er , who are jim messina and danny partridge ? (not one of the >partridge family shurely?)p Dear Paul, Jim Messina could be described as the man least likely to join Wire. He was very briefly a member of Buffalo Springfield and Poco, then formed country rock duo Loggins and Messina. They made a number of successful albums in the early seventies featuring their hay-chewin', doobie-smokin', moonshine-tokin' brand of music, and had a hit with the horrible 'Your Mama Don't Dance' in 1972. As musicians they were actually pretty good and one of their albums, Mother Lode, has aged well compared to the efforts of their peers (eg, The Eagles, Sutherland Brothers). After their demise as a duo, Kenny Loggins hit the big time with an abysmal jukebox favourite that I'm sure we all recall with a shudder, 'Footloose'. As for Danny Partridge, I don't know. I was a mere tot when The Partridge Family were on TV, but wasn't Danny the freckled prepubescent? And didn't he play the drums? It's all too long ago for me to remember... Still, from Ovation's point of view, I expect that having the instrument endorsed by a member of The Partridge Family would be scarcely better than being able to say "As played by Josie And The Pussycats!" However, it's not quite true to assert that Ovation could only get these two chaps to play their electrics at the time of their release. Jazz/fusion virtuosos Larry Coryell and Al Di Meola (also very unlikely, it has to be said, ever to get a phone call from Graham Lewis to replace Colin in Wire) used them. Best wishes, Michel Faber ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:12:45 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: guitars on ebay ah , the famous partridge family "twin axe attack" , it all comes flooding back to me now............... p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Re[2]: guitars on ebay Author: MIME:JSampson@iseoptions.com at INTERNET Date: 31/03/2000 16:51 Ovation was actually the "corporate sponsor" of the Partridge Family TV show. Anytime a guitar was featured during the show, it had to be an Ovation. Whether it was Keith (David Cassidy) or Danny (Danny Bonnaduce)... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:52:30 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: guitars on ebay Jim, << Ovation was actually the "corporate sponsor" of the Partridge Family TV show. Anytime a guitar was featured during the show, it had to be an Ovation. Whether it was Keith (David Cassidy) or Danny (Danny Bonnaduce)... >> Congratulations, you are the winner of this week's Golden Anorak award!!!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:58:58 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Ovation Breadwinner I did a quick search for Ovation Breadwinner on the Net (to see how much they cost - you've got me wanting one now!) I came up with a very good interview with Robert Smith out of the Cure, who as well as owning up to copying Colin's guitar, attributes the Cure's change of direction from Boys don't cry-style pop to moody 17 seconds-Faith-Pornography to Wire....while saying he doesn't like Wire! Read on... >>I should add that when I played with Siouxsie and the Banshees the first time I played and Ovation Breadwinner guitar. That was 1979. So I did own another guitar. But that was my Banshees guitar. I would never have dreamed of playing it with the Cure. I resurrected it when I went back and played with the Banshees a second time [_1982-1985_]. It really summed up the Banshees for me: a very modern kind of asymmetrical shape. Nearly every guitar I've ever bought was chosen for its visual aesthetics-how it looked rather than how it sounded. << And... >> It was actually seeing Wire that gave me the idea to follow a different course, to hold out against the punk wave. At the time, it was a lot easier just to play loud and fast, and that was a good night. Everyone went home talking about you. But even then, I felt, "We're gonna go down with the ship if we do that." Seeing Wire pointed out another direction to me. I didn't even especially like Wire - still don't - but this particular performance was just earth-shattering for me. We were supporting them at this small place, like a student thing. We played pretty badly; I was drunk and it was a shambles. We did "10.15" three times and no one really noticed. Then Wire came on, and during the first song about half the audience left. It was the most intense thing I thought I'd ever see - blinding white lights shooting straight into the audience and this incredible wall of noise. But it wasn't like thrash, just ponderous noise. Then they'd stop it and do little quiet bits. I thought it was really excellent. I remember having a big row in the van with the others about it afterwards because they all thought it was shit, and I thought it was immense. That's what I wanted the Cure to do. It took about a year and a half - between going to play with the Banshees, Michael leaving the band, and Simon joining - before I got to the point where I had people around me who understood that as well. Simon got the idea of doing stuff that had lots of power but didn't have to be fast. I think that's really what the difference was. There's some medium-to slow-paced things on _Three Imaginary Boys_. At the time, you just didn't do that. << So there you go. The full interview is at: http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~rayl/press/guitar_world.html Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:15:22 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: guitars on ebay Jim, << That's a "good thing" - right??? >> Oh yes...it shows exemplary understanding of the vital importance of facts so sad and trivial as to defy description in mere words.... I have a cupboard full of Golden Anorak awards, believe me! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:46:57 -0500 From: ajwells@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: guitars on ebay Michel Faber wrote: > > >For anyone who gives a hoot, Ovation only made solid body > >electrics for a few years in the late seventies and early 80s... they > >could only get Jim Messina and Danny Partridge to play them, so > >they went down in flames... (a.j.wells) > > >er , who are jim messina and danny partridge ? (not one of the > >partridge family shurely?)p > > Dear Paul, > > Jim Messina could be described as the man least likely to join Wire. > He was very briefly a member of Buffalo Springfield and Poco, then > formed country rock duo Loggins and Messina. They made a > number of successful albums in the early seventies featuring their > hay-chewin', doobie-smokin', moonshine-tokin' brand of music, and > had a hit with the horrible 'Your Mama Don't Dance' in 1972. As > musicians they were actually pretty good and one of their albums, > Mother Lode, has aged well compared to the efforts of their peers > (eg, The Eagles, Sutherland Brothers). After their demise as a duo, > Kenny Loggins hit the big time with an abysmal jukebox favourite > that I'm sure we all recall with a shudder, 'Footloose'. > > As for Danny Partridge, I don't know. I was a mere tot when The > Partridge Family were on TV, but wasn't Danny the freckled > prepubescent? And didn't he play the drums? It's all too long ago > for me to remember... Still, from Ovation's point of view, I expect that > having the instrument endorsed by a member of The Partridge > Family would be scarcely better than being able to say "As played > by Josie And The Pussycats!" Actually Danny played the bass and a bit of guitar... or at least he "wore" both instruments... > However, it's not quite true to assert that Ovation could only get > these two chaps to play their electrics at the time of their release. > Jazz/fusion virtuosos Larry Coryell and Al Di Meola (also very > unlikely, it has to be said, ever to get a phone call from Graham > Lewis to replace Colin in Wire) used them. Thats news to me... I was a little jazz-fusion teenager in the 70s and saw Al DiMeola a number of times and never saw him with an Ovation, but there you are... I'll add it to my Ovation trivia file... Aj. - -- ICQ# 6174686 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:54:55 -0500 From: ajwells@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ovation Breadwinner MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > I did a quick search for Ovation Breadwinner on the Net (to see how much they > cost - you've got me wanting one now!) And I had to go shooting off my mouth... I've got three of these things, which I picked up over the years (before I knew anything about the Wire connection, I just thought they looked and sounded interesting) at prices ranging from 150-250.00... they are regularly featured on Ebay, where they sell at 350-650.00 depending on condition... you want to look for guitars with the original active electronics intact (it was the first guitar with an on-board battery and the pickups are so sensitive that you can pick up cell phone conversations from the next state)... many people remove them, and that sort of robs them of their buzzing character... I know that Andy Gill of the Gang of Four didnt play these, but every time I plug mine in I get feedback straight out of Anthrax that just wont quit > I came up with a very good interview with Robert Smith out of the Cure, who > as well as owning up to copying Colin's guitar, attributes the Cure's change > of direction from Boys don't cry-style pop to moody 17 > seconds-Faith-Pornography to Wire....while saying he doesn't like Wire! Yes well he also claims to not like Joy Divison or New Order as well, but Unknown Pleasures and Closer were as responsible, if not more responsible for Big Bob turning from an interesting teen age pop sensation to the bloated moper that everyone knows and is bored by today... Aj. - -- ICQ# 6174686 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:57:43 -0500 From: "William Miller" Subject: Re: new to list - C. Newman & Janet Smith hI marY. Welcome to the list. I'm "new" to Wire myself. Just a year ago I had not heard anything by them (that I can recall now) -- although I had heard the song that r.e.m. covered. Was it "strange" ? I would recommend Pink Flag as a good jumping off point. Firstly, it was first, and secondly, it's not entirely dissimilar to the rest of their catalog... And I haven't heard "A Bell is a Cup..." or "IBTABA" or "Ideal Copy" or "First Letter" -0---> "Pink Flag" is my favorite thus far. Ken Flood kflood7@yahoo.com _____________________________________ Get your free E-mail at http://www.ireland.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:59:29 -0500 From: "William Miller" Subject: Re: Everybody Loves a History Tim, Trying to find the Wir(e) biography: try http://www.abe.com -- it's an online network of booksellers worldwide, thousands of sellers. The book is only owned by 4 libraries in the USA (I think) and I've only seen it for sale once (and I live in the states). ken flood kflood7@yahoo.com _____________________________________ Get your free E-mail at http://www.ireland.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:17:29 -0500 (EST) From: Joshua Subject: Re: new to list - C. Newman & Janet Smith On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, William Miller wrote: > I'm "new" to Wire myself. Just a year ago I had not heard anything > by them (that I can recall now) -- although I had heard the song that r.e.m. covered. Was it "strange" ? Someone did a cover of In Vivo. Does anyone know who it was? DM? Somebody like that? > I would recommend Pink Flag as a good jumping off point. Firstly, it > was first, and secondly, it's not entirely dissimilar to the rest of > their catalog... And I haven't heard "A Bell is a Cup..." or "IBTABA" or > "Ideal Copy" or "First Letter" -0---> "Pink Flag" is my favorite thus > far. Bah. IBTABA is my favorite album of theirs although Document and Eyewitness is rapidly getting up there. Pink Flag is definitely early, definitely punk, and less exploratory than their later stuff. - -Joshua ___ ___ http://www.swingpad.com (Digital Art and Artisanship) - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:41:04 -0500 From: george.m.hook@ac.com Subject: More Chicago Wire Looks like Wire will be doing some extra work in Chicago (has anybody heard of any of these other acts?): Organizers of San Francisco's Noise Pop Festival, now in its eighth year (allstar, Jan. 13), have announced the details of this year's expansion into Chicago on May 10-15. English legends Wire, Sleater-Kinney, Wilco's Jeff Tweedy with avant-garde experimental rocker/guitarist Jim O'Rourke, X's John Doe, indie rockers Modest Mouse and Apples in Stereo, Grandaddy, jazz composer/pianist Uri Caine, ambient-techno mainstay Alex Gopher, and Ken Vandermark's Sound in Action Trio (featuring former Sun Ra drummer Robert Barry) are just a few of the highlights set for the Chicago edition. Noise Pop Chicago has teamed up with the Windy City's Empty Bottle Festival of Jazz and Improvised Music to gather a slightly more eclectic lineup than past S.F. Noise Pops, including a wide array of international musicians from all walks of music. Additional acts confirmed for Chicago Noise Pop 2000 include saxophonist Fred Anderson, German bassist Peter Kowald, Mike Ireland and Holler, German percussionist Gunter "Baby" Sommer, Califone, Chicago Underground Quartet, Robbie Hardkiss, Dutch pianist Cor Fuhler, Greek reedist Floros Floridis, cellist Fred-Lonberg-Holm, the Bangs, Pan-American, Holland's Loos (U.S. debut), Seam, Oranger, French reedist Andre Jaume, Austrian saxophonist Boris Sinclair Hauf, U.K. saxophonist John Butcher, Verbow, Revolutionary Artificial Head System, and Danish electronic rockers Silo (U.S. debut). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:54:15 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Everybody Loves a History >Tim, > >Trying to find the Wir(e) biography: try http://www.abe.com -- it's an online network of booksellers worldwide, thousands of sellers. > >The book is only owned by 4 libraries in the USA (I think) and I've only seen it for sale once (and I live in the states). > >ken flood > >kflood7@yahoo.com > Geez, I got mine through an on-line order from Amazon, or maybe Barnes & Noble, maybe a year ago. Guess they're out of 'em ... Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:44:33 -0600 From: "webmaster" Subject: Pink Flag / High Fidelity Wire fans take note, the beloved Pink Flag album cover makes a cameo appearance in the Chicago-esque remake of Nick Hornby's great book; and film... charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #82 ******************************