From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #60 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 03 : Number 060 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: NME review [Ian Grant ] Re: NME review [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] tickets [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: tickets [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: NME review ["giluz" ] Sunday night gig [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Fw: NME review ["giluz" ] Re[2]: NME review [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Swim Team #1 NME [Wireviews ] Re: Swim Team #1 NME ["MackDaddyD" ] [none] [owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] re: Re: NME review [Jack Steinmann ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:11:22 +0000 From: Ian Grant Subject: Re: NME review At 04:30 09/03/00 -0500, Craig wrote: >Thought I'd bung in my 2p regarding the NME. You have >to remember that they are very much at the cutting >edge of whatever bullshit remains in the UK music >scene, i.e.: not that much. You see, they *used* to >be interested in the "indie" scene, but became >complacent when it moved to mainstream. Hence, the >NME think they're being exciting by printing articles >about Oasis. Bit harsh on the NME, imho. Particularly since there's also a very positive, prominent review of the Swim compilation in this week's issue. If you want an example of how the UK music press has deteriorated, then you're better off looking at Melody Maker, which is now completely unrecognisable from the heady days of Simon Reynolds, Chris Roberts, and co. It's become little more than a thoroughly ghetto-ised, indie version of Kerrang or Smash Hits, hanging on by its fingernails and surviving only by mentioning the Manics and Oasis on the cover every week. Awful - jeez, it even has posters! To my mind, and in sharp contrast, the NME's actually rather good at the moment. In that, like any self-respecting music publication, it has the guts to look outside its own particular constituency. Recent issues have had Kelis, AC/DC and Slipknot on the cover - all mainstream, perhaps, but all way more interesting than bleedin' Travis. They've championed some fine stuff in reviews and features too, wandering far away from the well-trodden indie path when necessary. They've also championed some utter tosh, of course, but I doubt any of us are guilt-free on that score - ask me about Bogshed some time! As for the review, I thought it was nonsense....and that's despite being less than enthusiastic about the night myself. However, I do also see it as a demonstration of the challenge with which Wire are presented - even within a relatively small fanbase, there are so many different pressures. There's an astonishing spectrum of opinions, from people who only want to hear stuff from "Pink Flag" (the reviewer) right through to people who regard any revisiting of old ground as being completely unnecessary (me!). The idea that Wire will ever allow themselves to bow to such pressures is, of course, fairly laughable. They'll do what they've always done and steer their own course. But the debate's fascinating regardless, and the review was nothing more than a fairly crass contribution to that debate. Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:35:09 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: NME review i think the "we came to praise wire not to bury them" opening sums the guy up , clearly he is not exactly unfamiliar with the concept of the tired cliche. all the silly 80's criticism seemed to show up the guy's ignorance . the support acts were very 90's and the wire set ditched all the 80's synths & technology and played it in a basic way (70's? 90's? hardly 80's). hard to take it seriously when it was so far wide of the mark. he was probably pining for his stereophonics albums or something. in general i don't think the nme is so bad ; the new look smash hits-style monotony maker is far worse.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: NME review Author: MIME:jsteinmann@clynch.com at INTERNET Date: 08/03/2000 20:07 Wire - London South Bank Royal Festival Hall http://www.nme.com/reviews/reviews/20000308163811.html Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:55:06 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: tickets highbury tickets are now on sale , i bought mine for sunday night yeaterday. £10 for the ticket , £2.40 booking fee , £1.20 "handling charge". wankers , but what choice is there? i have been pondering this "all tomorrows parties" on 9/4. anyone know where to get info on this? ticketmaster tell me they've sold their allocation so maybe getting one won't be so easy? i was hoping to buy a day ticket maybe but i don't even know if that's possible , anyone got any ideas? p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:20:38 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: tickets - --0__=iSNN2dzEcON87gBGreCLq0UghDUMtIqwsX5LwZ40BbZsfdsPw4a4A245 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I enquired regarding ATP last August. The gig was originally scheduled for September last year, Tindersticks but no Wire on the bill. Tickets were sold at - --0__=iSNN2dzEcON87gBGreCLq0UghDUMtIqwsX5LwZ40BbZsfdsPw4a4A245 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =A395 for the weekend but..... each chalet holds four and therefore tickets were being sold in batches of four only. The gig was cancelled = due to lack of ticket sales. They may have changed the booking requirements for the re-scheduled gig= . Try Ticketweb for availability. So, we're all meeting on the Sunday then? I shall get meself a ticket. Chris. paul.rabjohn@ssab.com on 09/03/2000 15:55:06 To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: tickets = - --0__=iSNN2dzEcON87gBGreCLq0UghDUMtIqwsX5LwZ40BbZsfdsPw4a4A245 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline highbury tickets are now on sale , i bought mine for sunday night yeaterday. - --0__=iSNN2dzEcON87gBGreCLq0UghDUMtIqwsX5LwZ40BbZsfdsPw4a4A245 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =A310 for the ticket , =A32.40 booking fee , =A31.20 "handling charge". wankers , but what choice is there? i have been pondering this "all tomorrows parties" on 9/4. anyone know where to get info on this? ticketmaster tell me they've sold their allocation so maybe getting one won't be so easy? i was hoping to buy a= day ticket maybe but i don't even know if that's possible , anyone got any ideas? p = - --0__=iSNN2dzEcON87gBGreCLq0UghDUMtIqwsX5LwZ40BbZsfdsPw4a4A245-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:29:41 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Re: NME review I haven't read NME in almost 10 years now, and even though I'm not really surprised, it saddens me to see that nothing in it has changed. The same arrogance, the same "we know all there is to know about the music industry" attitude, and, especially, the same feeling I get everytime I read it, that the most important thing about this magazine is not the artists but the magazine itself. I remember that in the early 90's every month or so the NME (or MM) would tell its readers about the next new revolution in rock music. Does anyone remember the Mancunian Revolution, with long-forgotten bands like The Blue Mondays (and rightly so) and such. On the other hand, I remember that something as important as rap and black music did not get the coverage it deserved till the late 80's-early 90's. What I'm trying to say here is this: NME is about fashion, meaning - it is rarely ahead of its times, and usually behind them. This is not the usual mainstream fashion - it is alternative, or what used to be labeled as alternative, fashion. The problem is that it's not aware of it, and thinks that it's not only covering the events but creating them as well. There aren't any questions raised in the NME pages - they know it all, they understand everything, and that's why they'll always be a long way behind what's really happening. When something new starts it is never comprehensible - that's what makes it new. It takes time to evaluate and understand what's happened (and sometimes you never understand). I'd say that the NME staff think of themselves more as prophets than reporters. I would like to quote Elvis Costello when asked for his reaction when The Sounds magazine closed down: "One more, two to go". giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:50:27 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Sunday night gig I meant at the Garage. The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:59:15 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Fw: NME review Sorry, the correct quote of Elvis Costello is: "One down, two to go". giluz - ----- Original Message ----- From: "giluz" To: "IdealCopy" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 6:29 PM Subject: Re: NME review > I haven't read NME in almost 10 years now, and even though I'm not really > surprised, it saddens me to see that nothing in it has changed. The same > arrogance, the same "we know all there is to know about the music industry" > attitude, and, especially, the same feeling I get everytime I read it, that > the most important thing about this magazine is not the artists but the > magazine itself. > > I remember that in the early 90's every month or so the NME (or MM) would > tell its readers about the next new revolution in rock music. Does anyone > remember the Mancunian Revolution, with long-forgotten bands like The Blue > Mondays (and rightly so) and such. On the other hand, I remember that > something as important as rap and black music did not get the coverage it > deserved till the late 80's-early 90's. > > What I'm trying to say here is this: > NME is about fashion, meaning - it is rarely ahead of its times, and usually > behind them. This is not the usual mainstream fashion - it is alternative, > or what used to be labeled as alternative, fashion. The problem is that it's > not aware of it, and thinks that it's not only covering the events but > creating them as well. > > There aren't any questions raised in the NME pages - they know it all, they > understand everything, and that's why they'll always be a long way behind > what's really happening. When something new starts it is never > comprehensible - that's what makes it new. It takes time to evaluate and > understand what's happened (and sometimes you never understand). I'd say > that the NME staff think of themselves more as prophets than reporters. > > I would like to quote Elvis Costello when asked for his reaction when The > Sounds magazine closed down: "One more, two to go". > > giluz > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:54:40 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: NME review I haven't read NME in almost 10 years now, and even though I'm not really surprised, it saddens me to see that nothing in it has changed. The same arrogance, the same "we know all there is to know about the music industry" attitude, and, especially, the same feeling I get everytime I read it, that the most important thing about this magazine is not the artists but the magazine itself. >>>>>> i started out with nme probably 78-80 , got sick of the new romantic / blitz stuff and went over to sounds (more punk , more humour) until it went bust (91/92) and then mm. but in the end i got fed up with the endless student new bandwagon stuff and now i just buy 'em if there's a free cd on the cover. I remember that in the early 90's every month or so the NME (or MM) would tell its readers about the next new revolution in rock music. Does anyone remember the Mancunian Revolution, with long-forgotten bands like The Blue Mondays (and rightly so) and such. On the other hand, I remember that something as important as rap and black music did not get the coverage it deserved till the late 80's-early 90's. >>>>>>>>> i think they are very conscious of how "white" they all are and get very prickly when people point this out. What I'm trying to say here is this: NME is about fashion, meaning - it is rarely ahead of its times, and usually behind them. This is not the usual mainstream fashion - it is alternative, or what used to be labeled as alternative, fashion. The problem is that it's not aware of it, and thinks that it's not only covering the events but creating them as well. >>>it's just giving students what they want. post-oasis guitar bands doing the same old stuff ad nauseum. There aren't any questions raised in the NME pages - they know it all, they understand everything, and that's why they'll always be a long way behind what's really happening. When something new starts it is never comprehensible - that's what makes it new. It takes time to evaluate and understand what's happened (and sometimes you never understand). I'd say that the NME staff think of themselves more as prophets than reporters. >>>>>>>> better words spring to mind I would like to quote Elvis Costello when asked for his reaction when The Sounds magazine closed down: "One more, two to go". giluz >>>>> my personal fave was the "romo" new romantic revival of a couple of years ago. you gotta laugh.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:40:34 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: Swim Team #1 NME For those that are interested: http://www.nme.com/reviews/reviews/20000308171726.html Personally, I thought this was quite funny, attempting to compare most of the Swim~ release to Wire (and failing), including one of CN's least Wire-like tracks ever, the Narrativ. Also, comparing Ronnie & Clyde to Wire is rather like comparing Mozart of Joy Division. Probably. At least it was positive ... Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:00:03 -0600 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: Re: Swim Team #1 NME personally , i would prefer a well thought-out negative criticism to a moronic '8/10' just curious, what is the feeling on how this review would affect sales? had i seen this with no preconceptions, i do not think it would prompt me to investigate further damning with faint praise comes to mind > For those that are interested: > http://www.nme.com/reviews/reviews/20000308171726.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 19:33:37 -0500 (EST) From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [none] [212.113.17.10]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with SMTP id KAA26093 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:58:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from 132.147.1.1 by tracesmtp.traceplc.co.uk (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 09 Mar 2000 15:58:13 -0000 (GMT Standard Time) Received: by TRACEMAIL1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 15:34:52 -0000 Message-ID: From: Dave Bacon To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: new subsciber Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 15:58:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, New to the list. Age 39, first got into Wire early on, bought 'Chairs Missing' when it first came out, and 154, and count it at least among my top 20 of all time records still. So have LPs of their first 3 albums, not much later stuff except tape of Ideal Copy and the Snakedrill EP - recommendations for best CDs to buy to catch up on Wire work post-that would be welcome. Never seen them live, but listening to the Document & Eyewitness collection, would expect the unexpected from a Wire 'comeback', not the usual rehash of greatest hits (if they ever had any - though Outdoor Miner is a great pop song and should have been a hit, as I Am The Fly and some others too..) Maybe the reviewer in NME just couldn't understand a non-pop group like Wire. cheers Dave Disclaimer This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Trace Computers PLC. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this mail is strictly prohibited ====================================================== Miles Goosens UNlimited edition R. Stevie Moore CDs now available! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal website http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles "If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing." -- Anatole France ====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 09 Mar 2000 23:38:56 -0600 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Re: NME review What you're really describing is Rolling Stone magazine. The criticisms of the NME are valid but you'll never read anything about Wire in RS. Jack giluz wrote: >NME is about fashion, meaning - it is rarely ahead of its times, and usually >behind them. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #60 ******************************