From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #51 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, March 1 2000 Volume 03 : Number 051 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Bruce Gilbert reviews [Wireviews ] Re: The Shivering Man ["Michel Faber" ] Re[2]: The Shivering Man [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Fw: Swim now accepts credit cards ["giluz" ] Re: Wire future/RFH [John Roberts ] Re: The Shivering Man ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: Wire future/RFH [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] OT:Rude People w/Cell Phones & Wire Thoughts ["Ciscon, Ray" ] re: Wire Thoughts [Jack Steinmann ] re: Wire Thoughts [Keith Vercauteren ] Re: Wire supports [professor ned ] Tape Trading ["giluz" ] [none] [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] [none] [owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] Wire/PTV ["Michel Faber" ] Introduction ["giluz" ] Re: Radio silence [Amy Myrbo ] RFH gig ["giluz" ] RFH ["ian barrett" ] RFH gig ["giluz" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #49 [flaherty michael w ] re: Wire Thoughts [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 01:36:16 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: Re: Bruce Gilbert reviews - --- Stephen Jackson wrote: [Shivering Man] > Changing the subject a little, can anyone tell me > whether I should buy this > record. I'm a fan of only some of the solo stuff Reviews of all Bruce Gilbert albums on Mute Records will be a part of the upcoming monster update to Wireviews, hopefully on-line on March 5. In the meantime, yes I would buy This Way to the Shivering Man - it's one of his best. Craig/WV ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 10:56:55 -0000 From: "Michel Faber" Subject: Re: The Shivering Man Dear Stephen, If you have a turntable, buy the original vinyl LP of The Shivering Man, rather than the CD This Way To The Shivering Man. The CD is an amalgam of two LPs, one of which - This Way - you would probably dislike if you've had trouble with Dome and Duet Emmo. It's far more abstract and 'noisy' even than them. (I love it myself, but I'm keeping your stated preferences in mind.) The Shivering Man - which appears on the CD minus a few tracks - has a fair bit of abstract stuff on it too, but also a some songs. The reason I recommend the original LP is that A.C.Marias sings on some of the material that was left off the CD compilation. If she's your flame, best to get as much of her as you can get. Totally essential if you're into A.C.Marias is the 'Just Talk' 12". The A-side appears on the One Of Our Girls album but the sound of the 12" is much more prominent and punchy and 'there'. Also the B- side 'No Talk' is a sublime instrumental version. Best wishes, Michel Faber ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:16:06 +0000 (GMT) From: John Roberts Subject: Meeting Mr Lewis Just back on line. Some slight exaggeration from Stuart's posting about my conversation with Mr Lewis last week. It only lasted 10 mins. Scenario: Still recovering from the earsplitting intimacy of the Nottm gig. Train to London from Leicester - going down for the RFH gig and the Worthington CUp Final. Girlfriend nudges me and says 'there's that bloke out of Wire'. Look over my paper to see Graham Lewis almost fall into us with a bag of British Rail's finest cuisine in his hand. If I'd have had the time to think I wouldn't've said anything but as he was upon us I just came out with a very casual 'Hello Graham'. He did a double take and realised that he didn't know me from Adam. 'Just wanted to say that we saw you last night and it's great to see you back together' I managed. I expected a 'thanks' and for him to move on but no he sits down and starts jabbering about the gig. I managed to keep conversation going - not that I needed to, Mr Lewis was obviously quite prepared to converse - about the Dublin gig - small audience, lots of drink after apparently, the promoters were the nicest people in the world, about basses - he doesn't have any rails left - he used to own two - but if anyone knows of anyone who's selling one... (his were nicked in Portugal(?)), as Stuart mentioned the Nottm gig was Paul Smith's idea, the RFH gig would contain lots of surprises (I wasn't sure as to whether he knew that I'd seen the line up for this gig), the Garage might extend to four nights if ticket sales look good, the lack of electronics/samplers etc was so that Robert would come back on board, reminiscing about playing in the States - three gigs in 36 hours from huge stadium to a record co. do in front of 300, XFM - which we all know about, and in general he looked really happy to be doing Wire again and quite taken aback to be recognised on a train. As regular listers will know I always thought Mr Lewis to be a bit pompous but I must say what a really nice bloke he seemed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 18:20:11 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: The Shivering Man yes , agreed completely. you need the vinyl "shivering man" as the compilation get's it all wrong by leaving out the ac marias track. shivering man is way better than this way imo. mute still have lps in stock (but sadly not the "ovo mix" 12" which i just tried to buy. anyone got this? worth the bother?) p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: The Shivering Man Author: MIME:michelfaber@ablach.freeserve.co.uk at INTERNET Date: 01/03/2000 12:07 Dear Stephen, If you have a turntable, buy the original vinyl LP of The Shivering Man, rather than the CD This Way To The Shivering Man. The CD is an amalgam of two LPs, one of which - This Way - you would probably dislike if you've had trouble with Dome and Duet Emmo. It's far more abstract and 'noisy' even than them. (I love it myself, but I'm keeping your stated preferences in mind.) The Shivering Man - which appears on the CD minus a few tracks - has a fair bit of abstract stuff on it too, but also a some songs. The reason I recommend the original LP is that A.C.Marias sings on some of the material that was left off the CD compilation. If she's your flame, best to get as much of her as you can get. Totally essential if you're into A.C.Marias is the 'Just Talk' 12". The A-side appears on the One Of Our Girls album but the sound of the 12" is much more prominent and punchy and 'there'. Also the B- side 'No Talk' is a sublime instrumental version. Best wishes, Michel Faber ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 19:18:27 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Fw: Swim now accepts credit cards I'm forwarding this to the wirelist - message from Swim HQ: - ----- Original Message ----- From: SWIM-HQ To: Swim-HQ Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 4:13 PM Subject: Swim now accepts credit cards Dear All, You are getting this because you have either required about mail order or have ordered from us. We do not spam on a regular basis, nonetheless please inform us if you do not wish to receive this. Likewise if you know of anyone who would like to receive this information please inform us. pLease do not hesitate to post this to any lists or newsgroups who may be informed by this information. ****** Swim Now accepts Credit Cards through Posteverything In addition to the previous forms of payment swim can accept the following CREDIT AND DEBIT CARDS MASTERCARD VISA VISA DEBIT SWITCH SOLO You will need to also include the following information in orders: DETAILS OF YOUR ORDER including catalogue number, formats and quantities CARD TYPE CARDHOLDER ACCOUNT NUMBER NAME AND INITIALS exactly as they appear on the card 'VALID FROM' date (if shown on card) CARD ISSUE NUMBER where present (for Switch and Solo only - where applicable) CARD 'EXPIRES END' DATE STATEMENT ADDRESS CONTACT TELEPHONE NUMBER (NOT a mobile number) Please note, all cc transactions are in sterling. Your credit supplier will make translation into your currency at the prevailing rate. MO dollar prices on the swim site are only a guide to prices that will be charged by your credit supplier. this information may be sent to: Fax: +44.20.8789.0636 Phone: +44.20.7733.2171 (posteverything) Mail: swim~ PO Box 3459 London SW19 6ES you may also send the information by email (swim@posteverything.com), but you are advised that this is not a secure method for transfer of the information. No secure online facilities are currently available. All products are securely packaged to avoid damage. We have been very busy recently so have not had time to update the swim site consequently we have 2 releases available to mail order customers although neither is yet available in shops. 1. swim team #1 - the new 17 track sampler of swim style - 40 percent is new material while the majority of the rest is from very recent releases and the best news is, it's only 5 pounds!! 2. Symptoms - The new "boy genius" from swim - Klaus Ammitzbøll who's album Hot press described as "seamless, beautiful, highly original and downright bonkers" all the the same review!! Cheers SWIM-HQ - -- swim~ PO Box 3459 London SW19 6ES Fax : +44 (O)208.789.0636 e--mail: Swim@posteverything.comswim world wide web: http://www.kleber.net/swim posteverything online early 2000 : http://www.posteverything.com/swim webmail : swimhq@netscape.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:29:52 +0000 (GMT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: Wire future/RFH > (Also, many of the '80s tracks at RFH sounded much > better than the originals - justification in itself). Don't know about this but there is a weird sense of the current Wire sounding like they should have fitted in between the 70s and late 80s line ups. To my ears they sound as if they're being produced by Steve Albini also. > > And the T-Shirt is quite nice - stitched pinkflag.com > logo and everything ... And all the stuff is supposedly limited. T shirt to 500 (?), CD to 1000, object to 154, and even the postcards advertising the Garage gigs are ltd to 5000. > > > Some of the audience behaviour on the night was > > curious. Along with some attempts at pogoing > > I noticed at the end that > > despite the enthusiastic response overall, great > > swathes of the audience > > were simply starring blankly at the stage. Did they > > think they were too cool to clap ? > As with the 2K (KLF) gig I saw at the Barbican, a fair > amount of the crowd at RFH were NOT Wire-fans, and > were the typical "go to everything" arts crowd (maybe > 10% or so). As for the rest: mesmerised/shocked > probably. After all, this is one of the UK's premiere > high-brow Arts venues, and Wire finished by playing a > rather fast version of their most dissonant punk epic, > 12XU. I couldn't believe how many people were talking all the way through the pre-Wire sets or wandering around and getting in the view of those of us who'd actually come to see the event. There were a lot of very arrogant people there who seemed to think that they could continually ask you to sit up and let them go back to the bar or on a couple of occasions near me steal someone else's seats. It really took the shine off the whole evening for me. The most irritating moment for me personally was witnessing some wanker a couple of rows in front who had made Stuart lister and his partner, Emma, get out of their seats umpteen times, had spent at least a solid half of Wire's set proper out of his seat, stand up and shake his fist in the air during most of 2 People In A Room and then declare loudly that that had made his night. A shame he managed to ruin everyone's around him. As for Paul's encounter with the bouncer re:flashes, maybe you should have pointed him in the direction of either the wanker mentioned above or perhaps to the two women in the seats in front of me whose mobile phones went off half a dozen times during the course of the evening. Maybe I'm getting old but I hope they never play in a venue that attracts so many arseholes again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 19:32:37 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: The Shivering Man Ok....I shall venture to check this one out. Sadly, I no longer have a decent turntable since I went exclusively digital. Thanks to everyone for their recommendations.... Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Out of the Void. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 15:56:14 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: Wire future/RFH John, I must have been sitting very close to you {my friend & I )Row 0 seats 49 & 50 because directly in front of us were these pain in the arse women & when they were not in their seats gassing & answering their bloody mobiles some other pissheads were.I also saw two people ejected from their seats & stand against the wall for alot of the gig clearly enjoying it while countless behind me were being told to shut up which met with the usual puerile response. Cheers Chriswire ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 15:33:23 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: OT:Rude People w/Cell Phones & Wire Thoughts Sorry to butt in with an off topic post, but all of the talk about rude idiots with cell phones reminds me of an incident I saw last year at Comiskey Park here in Chicago. My wife and I were enjoying a lovely Saturday afternoon in the summer watching our favorite baseball team, the Chicago White Sox, from our usual perch in the left field bleachers. Two young women, one of them wearing a Chicago Cubs cap (considered sacrilege in White Sox territory), were sitting in front of us. They spent most of the game talking to each other, drinking beer, gabbing on their cell phones... very loudly, and not paying attention to anything at all on the field. A rather large gentleman, about 6'5", 250 lbs+ was unfortunate enough to sit next to them. He was at ground zero of their nuclear annoyance. He asked them politely several times to please refrain from this rude of activity, or at least go up to the concourse to talk, but they only laughed at him and told him that, "...it's a free country, and we can do anything we want!". Everyone in the immediate area became aware of this continuing issue. After about 7 and a half innings of this, that's about two hours for our British friends, one of the women took a call during the 7th inning stretch, which simply pushed him over the edge... When the crowd finished singing 'Take Me Out to the Ballgame', he grabbed the cell phone out of the woman's hand and tossed it toward the playing field. We were about 6 rows up, so it fell over the edge, and down into area between the bleachers and the playing field, where I could swear I heard it crunch when it hit the ground. The two women looked at him in complete horror, while everyone around them, my wife and I included, fell silent. The woman who just lost her phone asked the man, why he did what he did... his response was: "It's a free country, and I can do whatever I want."... at which point everyone around us cheered and laughed! The two women left and play resumed without distraction, much to the enjoyment of everyone involved. As for my Wire related thoughts, I too am less than enthused with the prospect of a non-electronic Wire. I much prefer their 80's output to the 70's stuff, but as others have stated, it's not going to dampen my excitement at seeing them live and together... I only hope that Robert and the others can come to some kind of compromise and begin to include electronics on future recordings and tours. Cheers, Ray Ciscon In order to provide the best level of support, please contact: The I.S. Support Center at extension 4357 ** Every support call should begin with a call to the I. S. Support Center. ** -----Original Message----- From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com [mailto:CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 2:56 PM To: jarobert@dmu.ac.uk; wireviews@yahoo.com Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: Wire future/RFH John, I must have been sitting very close to you {my friend & I )Row 0 seats 49 & 50 because directly in front of us were these pain in the arse women & when they were not in their seats gassing & answering their bloody mobiles some other pissheads were.I also saw two people ejected from their seats & stand against the wall for alot of the gig clearly enjoying it while countless behind me were being told to shut up which met with the usual puerile response. Cheers Chriswire ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:15:25 -0600 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: CDDB just got my pinkFlag package from friend neil (the guy who shouted 'connection' from the balcony), popped the CD in my trusty work computer, and CDDB recognizes it as Wire - The Third Day cute! d __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 01 Mar 2000 15:54:40 -0600 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: Wire Thoughts For me the attraction of Wire is the songs first and the sequencers second. And I guess I'd rather hear Wire playing Wire than Wir playing Wir. Jack Ray wrote: >I too am less than enthused with the prospect of a non-electronic Wire. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:23:24 -0600 (CST) From: Keith Vercauteren Subject: re: Wire Thoughts I AGREE!!!!! I think Wire may have recognized the greatness of their own songs, and their choice to start playing without computer aid is wise. These days, "electronica" is everywhere. Maybe Wire have decided to keep the electronics for their solo work and gone back to basics for the BAND. I, for one, am excited... On 1 Mar 2000, Jack Steinmann wrote: > > For me the attraction of Wire is the songs first and the sequencers second. > And I guess I'd rather hear Wire playing Wire than Wir playing Wir. > > > Jack > > > Ray wrote: > >I too am less than enthused with the prospect of a non-electronic Wire. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:41:48 -0600 From: professor ned Subject: Re: Wire supports >In addition to Hovercraft in Seattle, the confirmed supports at this point >are Seam in Chicago and Pansonic in New York. No fair. We want Pan Sonic everywhere! ned ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 17:42:41 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Tape Trading I think most people dealing with this issue overreacted. I too am a music fan who grew up in the eighties and purchased a large amount of bootlegs on records, cassettes and CD's. Still, when, for example, King Crimson released an 'official' bootleg of their 90's tour a few years back, it cost me the effort of looking for and buying a 'real' bootleg. If Wire are going to record and release excerpts from their forthcoming tour, I won't have the need to look for other recordings of it elsewhere. I believe this comes as a service to the fans - that instead of looking for low quality overpriced bootleg recordings, they will release the best possible product.=20 This is not just a case of a band that doesn't like other people to record and release their own unreleased material - Wire are going to release that material, and that is why their position against bootlegging is so extreme (but also very specific - it only refers to 'new' bootlegs from this phase of Wire). Don't forget that you are talking about an independent label, which means that these releases, which, as most people in this mailing list said, will not be bought by more than a few fans, cost lots of money to the band's record label. Gil Luz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 19:44:58 -0500 (EST) From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: [none] 8-11-1998)) id 80256893.004B0F27 ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:39:50 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: MEDAS To: idealcopy@smoe.org Message-ID: <80256893.004B0D4C.00@gblovhns90.medas.co.uk> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 +0000 Subject: PTV et al Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk I too was at the Psychic TV gig. Michel's description was spot on; it was an excellent gig. Genesis whipped up enough fervour that once PTV did hit the stage there was a stampede to get to the front of the stage. This was my first live Wire performance and I certainly wasn't disappointed. But I wasn't overly surprised, thrilled, excited by the performance. I will be going to the Garage in May and hopefully a smaller, better sounding venue will bring out a little more passion in the group and the audience. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 19:45:13 -0500 (EST) From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [none] [207.69.200.31]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with ESMTP id KAA27394 for ; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:31:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from batfromhell (user-38ldk5t.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.208.189]) by fb00.eng00.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA02577 for ; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:31:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301bf82ca$19895ae0$bdd056d1@batfromhell> From: "marlon stpeters" To: Subject: Drill Bit Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 08:31:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk > >A video of Drill from an American TV > >broadcast was next, then we got at least two encores after that. > > Very funny. Wire were on what looked like a daytime American show = (like > Richard and Judy)...the presenter said something about liking the song "but > not catching the words"...Gilbert proceeded to take the piss a ltille while > Lewis videoed proceedings sporting a *dreadful* haircut. . I taped that show, it was called "The Late Show" on the Fox Network and = the guest host that evening was the talented Suzanne Sommers of "Threes = Company" fame. It was very surreal seeing the pinnacle ( Wire) being chatted up = by the dregs (Sommers), she had absolutely no idea who they were. Im sure = they were big fans of hers too. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:37:06 -0000 From: "Michel Faber" Subject: Wire/PTV michelfaber@ablach.freeserve.co.uk using "From" header Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Dear Paul, Below is your email as I received it - plainly something is missing between 'his collaborators' and 'chase publicity'. Presumably it's something along the lines of [Wire don't] chase publicity - but if anything more substantial than that got lost in transmission, perhaps you could re-send? I take your point about Genesis P-Orridge. An extremely image- conscious performer, and yes, the quality of Psychic TV's work has been uneven - more uneven than that of Wire and its offshoots. I didn't see the Birmingham gig you mention, but I have a couple of live albums from around that time (Live in Tokyo, Live in Glasgow) and they're not exactly magnificent, so I can well believe that your Birmingham gig was so-so. However, there's a live video of a gig in Manchester Polytechnic from two years later (1988) which is one of the most extraordinary concerts I've ever seen in terms of atmosphere and audience involvement... They were a funny band, PTV. In 1993 they released the albums PEAK HOUR and AL-OR-AL - - one a faceless soft-edged 'house' dance effort, the other a multilayered avant-garde extravaganza, possibly the most challenging record they ever made. That's what happens, I guess, when you put a band name to anything that has some GPO involvement regardless of the other personnel. Imagine the confusion that would have been caused if Bruce Gilbert had issued AB OVO as a 'Wire' release. (with a removable sticker: From the people who brought you 'So And Slow It Grows'!) Getting back to the RFH gig. I'm not sure how many people left with 'smiley faces' as you said. The atmosphere of the crowd as they were filing out seemed pretty subdued to me. Perhaps it would be fair to say that the really hard-core Wire fans - the ones who were pogoing at the front, for example - thought it was wonderful, but that many others had reservations of various kinds. The emails so far tend to bear this out. Most revealing perhaps is the concluding comment of one Michael Flaherty: "Well, we take what we can get". Once a fan has decided to support a band, it's like a relationship commitment, for better & for worse, and flaws which are glaring from an outsider's point of view are forgiven. I get the impression, by the way, that the one part of the gig that even the most committed Wire fans had trouble with was Daniel Miller's 'DJ' set. This, I think, gets right to the heart of the gig's shortcomings. There was nothing wrong with those Wire samples being remixed into a continuous aural wash. It was a great idea, and the sounds were superb. If it had been released as a new Duet Emmo CD, we all would have bought it and would possibly be playing it right now, enjoying it immensely. The problem was that it was being 'performed' by two tiny nondescript guys on a dark stage, making no contact whatsoever with anyone but each other (and that very minimal - a nod or two), in front of a screen broadcasting a white dot flashing on and off, in a bloody huge hall with thousands of people restlessly wandering about fetching drinks and going to the toilet. Miller (and Wire) seriously misjudged the effect that such a 'performance' could possibly have in such circumstances. If they imagined that people would be transfixed or astounded they were stretching the limits of the fans' trust very far! Again, while acknowledging that PTV had their 'off' gigs, and not doubting that the one you saw was tedious, I would suggest that PTV's RFH performance was a good example of something that Wire seem to have given very little thought to - how to generate engagement, strong reaction and visceral excitement in a large hall filled with thousands of sitting punters. As for your concluding comment, 'We always have a choice', I agree only up to a point. Someone in the USA who booked a plane ticket as soon as they heard that Wire were playing a gig would have done so in ignorance of its retro nature. Arriving in England and perhaps learning more from a newspaper, they would hardly exercise their 'choice' by getting straight back on the plane or going to see some other band instead! Similarly, someone who was really looking forward to Malka Spigel's set (as I was) had no way of guessing that she wouldn't actually sing or perform, but would merely stand silhouetted in front of a video screen. I'm not complaining about Malka Spigel - the Immersion set was charming - I'm just saying that punters have no magic way of predicting to what degree a band is going to deliver what it appears to be promising. The 'choice' is therefore not much of a choice at all. Mind you, I wholeheartedly approve of bands doing something completely different from what the audience expects of them (again, witness PTV) but in such a case the onus is on the band to blow everyone's doubts away with an unforgettably great performance. Best wishes, Michel Faber _______________________________________________________ From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Date sent: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 11:24:32 +0100 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: ptv/wire just read michaels long mail about the gig , interesting to see the different opinions. i don't see the current "retro phase" as a negative thing at all ; its something they've never done before and its nice to see some classic songs get another airing. the big question , of course , is "what nex t" ; if they're still playing this set next year then maybe the "tribute band" dig might become a bit more justified. but as a one-off i thing its a great celebration for all concerned , most people at the 2 gigs left with smiley faces that i could see. and me more than most with my little pink f lag in a bottle...... anyway , ptv. i saw them live in b'ham about 85/86 , "godstar" era. at that point they were every alternative writers dream band (very photogenic , gave great interviews and nobody had ever heard the music). your typical live review made them out to be the most incendiary live act of all time , t hey drew a huge crowd and expectation was running high.classy support came from marc riley and the creepers (great choice gen , great choice) and what did we get from ptv ; a really tedious guitar rock band droning on for hours with nothing remotely different from yer standard gig. what got me wa sn't the tedium (you can't win 'em all) but the fact they didn't even try to stimulate / excite / do something different. i don't mind seeing ambitious plans flop , what's unforgiveable is to not even try. i think gpo talks a great talk but musically he stands or falls depending on his collaborat ors chase publicity and don't have much of an image , gpo is a totally image-conscious performer who has always tried incredibly hard to self-publicise and probably wouldn't describe himself as a musician at all. i'm not slagging gpo ( i love some of the tg stuff) but i think you need to take him wit h a pinch of salt. as ever , we always have a choice.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:34:33 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: Introduction Hi, I wrote some messages to the list before, but did not introduce myself yet. My name is Gil Luz. I'm a 31 years old computer programmer / part-time musician from Israel. I've been a Wire/Colin Newman fan since the mid-eighties. My favourite Wire albums are Chairs Missing / 154 / Drill. Colin Newman's A-Z is one of my all-time favourites, but I like his Swim stuff as well. I've never seen Wire live before the RFH gig - I've only seen Colin perform with Minimal Compact in 1986 and Colin and Malka in Israel last year. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 08:34:25 -0600 (CST) From: Amy Myrbo Subject: Re: Radio silence Fer what it's worth, Radio K at the University of Minnesota was called by Greil Marcus "The best college radio station imaginable." Gee. radiok.org Not as Wire-suffused as it should be, though - blame the history-bereft undergraduates. * Amy Myrbo http://www.visi.com/~cosa amyrbo@umn.edu * Limnological Research Center Geology and Geophysics University of Minnesota 310 Pillsbury Dr SE Mpls MN 55455 * office 218 Pillsbury Hall pager/v.m. (651) 908-5538 fax (612) 625-3819 * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 11:20:40 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RFH gig > ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- wrote: > I think I'll nip this one in the bud. According to > Wire, new material will hopefully begin to appear as > they get used to performing material together again. > As Colin remarked at RFH, the "year zero" idea was > fine for the '80s, but it isn't the '80s anymore. > They felt comfortable and suitably interested in > revisiting the old material and using it as the > launching pad. Had they done another Oxford '85 (ie: > all new) I don't think it would have worked so well. > Why exactly is the "year zero" idea not fit for today? I do agree that the 70's stuff wouldn't have sounded as good and relevant as it sounded today if it were played back in the 80's, but actually I can't figure out why. It could be because Wire were always outside the fashionable musical trends, but this doesn't explain why it wouldn't have sounded good in the 80's as well. 70's punk is far more mainstream-oriented today than it was in the 80's. On the other hand, some of the 80's stuff sounded a bit dated. = Wire shouldn't have sounded so right and authentic playing their 70's songs now. Can anyone try to explain why is that so? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:16:18 -0000 From: "ian barrett" Subject: RFH Cracking good evening's entertainment. well worth the =A318 admission. Fortunately, as this offset the somewhat distasteful act of handing over a tenner for a 20 minute recording of a rehearsal. Okay nobody put a gun to my head but how could one NOT buy it. Or am I just a tight Northern bastard? (oh and one more gripe - what was that on the tickets about exercising discretion about allowing entry after the show commenced? I spent almost the entirity of Silk Skin Paws staring at the backs of people involved in a seat dispute on my row). About an hour before the start I actually started out by mistake in the Purcell Room, which was resonating to a humming noise very similar to 'I Feel Mysterious Today' just prior to the 'Did you ever concieve...' line. I took this as a deliberate and typically 'Wire' hors d'ouevre. Then found out I was in the wrong building. My stupidity amazes even me at times. ROCKPALAST - A good opener for the likes of me who have never seen this IMMERSION - moderately interesting / non-essential HE SAID + EG LEWIS scored video; excellent stuff but undermined by the venue size DJ set - don't be too harsh; the alternative at many 'normal' gigs is the kind of crap you wouldn't even pipe into a supermarket WIRE - excellent. highlights for me being MERCY, ANOTHER THE LETTER, the other new track (HE KNOWS?), LOWDOWN, BOILING BOY; The US TV DRILL rendition and aftermath were surreal; how the hell did that happen? There must have been a last minute cancellation. And the hair! Come on, that had to be fake! I've read the article in The Wire, and once again the emphasis is very much on the past (and the older past at that). I'm still not totally sure what this re-animation is for/about. And if the 'no electronics' bit is to keep Robert G on board, then surely that's denying a revisit to an important part of the back catalogue. Did the band appear as if they enjoyed RFH? =20 Perhaps we should all just enjoy it whilst it lasts. Incidentally, did anybody else catch the excellent photography exhibition about collapse and transition in the former Eastern Bloc that was on the the RFH? Exceptional and disturbing! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:28:52 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RFH gig Ian Grant wrote: >When Wir(e) were last together, they were doing extraordinary things - >still recognisably the same band that recorded "Pink Flag", yet mangled >and disguised and polished by electronics. An utterly logical progression >for an innovative, intelligent band to make...but nonetheless something that >made them virtually unique, an implicit condemnation of the natural >conservatism of most pop bands. For the much-anticipated next step to be >a return to the clumpy, wooden world of the unadorned guitar band, whether >playing old material or new, strikes me as being more than slightly >disappointing. Personally I expected the reformed Wire to be much more electronic oriented than they were in the end of their last phase, and the least thing I expected was for them to return to "guitarland". However, Wire always did the unexpected, and as long as the retro-thing doesn't continue for more than the first months of the reunion, I'm willing to wait and see what this phase may turn to. I remember when the Ideal Copy was released, and even though I liked it enormously I thought it was a bit too commercial and not progressive enough. Now when I listen to it I find it to be far ahead of its time, as most other Wire releases were. I didn't understand a lot of what went on in the RFH gig: the arty atmosphere of the venue, the support acts that didn't connect, the wandering audience, the Michael Clarke act, etc. I think we're making a big deal out of something which is much smaller: It was, after all, only a gig. Any conclusions that are drawn from this evening about Wire's future are a bit too early. What I do know is that I've seen Wire live, that they sounded fresh and good, and that I enjoyed it. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 19:41:07 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #49 On Tue, 29 Feb 2000, idealcopy-digest wrote: > From: "Wilson, Chad" > Subject: RE: The Shivering Man > > I like this one, I have it on cd and I think has "This Way To" on it as > well. (Or is the whole thing called "This way to the shivering man"?) On vinyl they're 2 seperate albums. The cd combines the 2, but is incomplete. > From: Stephen Jackson [mailto:smj@zen.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 12:55 PM > Changing the subject a little, can anyone tell me whether I should buy this > record. I'm a fan of only some of the solo stuff (The first He Said album, > Newman's early efforts...not so keen on Dome or Duet Emmo etc) but I really > love AC Marias. Advice? > > Steve. These are 2 of my very favorite Wire-related releases ... solo or together. In them Bruce has created another world, a mysterious soundscape that only he understands but the rest of us can visit at will. Yes, Angela and Grahams' vocals are nice, but I actually prefer the wordless embedded voices, and Bruce's own speaking parts (only one track... it's not like Haring at all). So my advice is ... don't buy them. They are nothing at all like He Said or Girls, and in fact are more avant gaurde than Dome, so based on your comments, I'm GUESSING (who knows?) that you wouldn't like them. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 19:55:37 -0800 From: Brian Subject: Re: Wire Thoughts I know that Wire is Wire, they definitely do not like to pigeonhole themselves and considering the state of music today it is refreshing that they have thrown off the electronics not because it is overused but because it is not used correctly. Playing there older material is also there own rejection of how much insipid music is produced on either side of the tracks. The rule is 85% of all music is shite, 10% is mediocre and if we are lucky 5% is just brilliant Keith Vercauteren wrote: > I AGREE!!!!! I think Wire may have recognized the greatness of their > own songs, and their choice to start playing without computer aid is wise. > These days, "electronica" is everywhere. Maybe Wire have decided to keep > the electronics for their solo work and gone back to basics for the BAND. > I, for one, am excited... > > On 1 Mar 2000, Jack Steinmann wrote: > > > > > For me the attraction of Wire is the songs first and the sequencers second. > > And I guess I'd rather hear Wire playing Wire than Wir playing Wir. > > > > > > Jack > > > > > > Ray wrote: > > >I too am less than enthused with the prospect of a non-electronic Wire. > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:15:37 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: re: Wire Thoughts On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Keith Vercauteren wrote: > I AGREE!!!!! I think Wire may have recognized the greatness of their > own songs, and their choice to start playing without computer aid is wise. > These days, "electronica" is everywhere. Maybe Wire have decided to keep > the electronics for their solo work and gone back to basics for the BAND. > I, for one, am excited... I don't know if continuing in guitar/bass/drums would work - but as a gesture, it's a good one: so many idiots...uh, critics (raises hand sheepishly) - have pronounced the death of guitars that sometimes the furthest ahead you can get is going backward. And it's still true that Wire are doing something they haven't done before - although in some ways the reinvention thing would work better if they performed only songs from the post-'85 period that strongly depended on electronics in the guitar/bass/drums format. - --Jeff, looking forward to Chicago... J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::"In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. ps: Hey Miles - are you & Melissa back yet? ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #51 ******************************