From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V3 #49 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, February 29 2000 Volume 03 : Number 049 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Washington DC tickets [Rob Gronotte ] ptv/wire [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: ptv/wire [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] the wire [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: RFH gig [Ian Grant ] Re: RFH gig [Mark Short ] Shameless plug (was Radio silence) ["bren mac greine" ] Re: ptv/wire ["MackDaddyD" ] i REALLY must turn spell-check on ["MackDaddyD" ] Re: ptv/wire ["Michel Faber" ] Dublin interview available [Max Schmid ] Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #48 [Howard Spencer ] Re: ptv/wire ["Stephen Jackson" ] Re: Wire/PTV ["Stephen Jackson" ] Fear, loathing, and sound dental hygiene, are you down with it? [BOURGEO] In RE: rft/wir(e)/ptv/ the ideal copy ["MackDaddyD" ] Re: Fear, loathing, and sound dental hygiene, are you down with it? ["Ma] re: In RE: rft/wir(e)/ptv/ the ideal copy [Jack Steinmann ] re: The Shivering Man [Jack Steinmann ] RE: The Shivering Man ["Wilson, Chad" ] Re: the wire [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: RFH gig [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: the wire ["ian barrett" ] Re: The Shivering Man ["ian barrett" ] Re: Radio silence. ["Steve Loubert" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 05:11:08 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Gronotte Subject: Washington DC tickets Just anted to let everyone know that tickets fot eh 9#:0 Club show are already on sale. I think an earlier post, or else something I read on a website, said they wouldn't be on sale until April. If anyone needs help getting tickets, let me know, as I can get them from the club for justa 50 cent surcharge, not the 5 dollars or so you'd probably pay to TicketBastard. Rob Why don't you come up and surf me sometime? --> http://www.patriot.net/users/rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 11:24:32 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: ptv/wire just read michaels long mail about the gig , interesting to see the different opinions. i don't see the current "retro phase" as a negative thing at all ; its something they've never done before and its nice to see some classic songs get another airing. the big question , of course , is "what next" ; if they're still playing this set next year then maybe the "tribute band" dig might become a bit more justified. but as a one-off i thing its a great celebration for all concerned , most people at the 2 gigs left with smiley faces that i could see. and me more than most with my little pink flag in a bottle...... anyway , ptv. i saw them live in b'ham about 85/86 , "godstar" era. at that point they were every alternative writers dream band (very photogenic , gave great interviews and nobody had ever heard the music). your typical live review made them out to be the most incendiary live act of all time , they drew a huge crowd and expectation was running high.classy support came from marc riley and the creepers (great choice gen , great choice) and what did we get from ptv ; a really tedious guitar rock band droning on for hours with nothing remotely different from yer standard gig. what got me wasn't the tedium (you can't win 'em all) but the fact they didn't even try to stimulate / excite / do something different. i don't mind seeing ambitious plans flop , what's unforgiveable is to not even try. i think gpo talks a great talk but musically he stands or falls depending on his collaborators ; a big chunk of his post-tg output is hardly essential listening. wire are musicians who don't chase publicity and don't have much of an image , gpo is a totally image-conscious performer who has always tried incredibly hard to self-publicise and probably wouldn't describe himself as a musician at all. i'm not slagging gpo ( i love some of the tg stuff) but i think you need to take him with a pinch of salt. as ever , we always have a choice.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:45:03 +0000 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: ptv/wire I don't think my previous email go through so I'll try again. Michel's review of both Wire and PTV was spot on. The PTV gig was probably the most exciting gig / night I've witnessed. Genesis really did shine through and gave the RFH crowd a real kick up the ass. Wire, let's face it, were a little tame. Great to hear some of the Pink Flag stuff but the performance and the audience was a little passionless. But I'll still be there in May. Chris. paul.rabjohn@ssab.com on 29/02/2000 10:24:32 To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/Finance/MEDAS) Subject: ptv/wire just read michaels long mail about the gig , interesting to see the different opinions. i don't see the current "retro phase" as a negative thing at all ; its something they've never done before and its nice to see some classic songs get another airing. the big question , of course , is "what next" ; if they're still playing this set next year then maybe the "tribute band" dig might become a bit more justified. but as a one-off i thing its a great celebration for all concerned , most people at the 2 gigs left with smiley faces that i could see. and me more than most with my little pink flag in a bottle...... anyway , ptv. i saw them live in b'ham about 85/86 , "godstar" era. at that point they were every alternative writers dream band (very photogenic , gave great interviews and nobody had ever heard the music). your typical live review made them out to be the most incendiary live act of all time , they drew a huge crowd and expectation was running high.classy support came from marc riley and the creepers (great choice gen , great choice) and what did we get from ptv ; a really tedious guitar rock band droning on for hours with nothing remotely different from yer standard gig. what got me wasn't the tedium (you can't win 'em all) but the fact they didn't even try to stimulate / excite / do something different. i don't mind seeing ambitious plans flop , what's unforgiveable is to not even try. i think gpo talks a great talk but musically he stands or falls depending on his collaborators ; a big chunk of his post-tg output is hardly essential listening. wire are musicians who don't ! ! chase publicity and don't have much of an image , gpo is a totally image-conscious performer who has always tried incredibly hard to self-publicise and probably wouldn't describe himself as a musician at all. i'm not slagging gpo ( i love some of the tg stuff) but i think you need to take him with a pinch of salt. as ever , we always have a choice.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:35:28 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: the wire so was that issue of the wire they were selling at the rfh worth picking up? i didn't want to have to look after it all night so i thought i'd go find one in a newsagent later.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:23:17 +0000 From: Ian Grant Subject: Re: RFH gig At 04:30 29/02/00 -0500, Michel wrote: >Anyway, as you may have guessed by now, I wasn't bowled over by >the concert. The Immersion set (Colin Newman and Malka Spigel >swaying fetchingly in front of a screen projecting her photographs) >was, for me, the only part with any charm and sense of wonder. >Wire themselves I found curiously uninvolving. The spectacle of four >men who have grown up so much (musically) from their punk >beginnings, and who are capable of creating such a rich palette of >unusual sounds, instead choosing to play a straight-ahead >guitar/bass/drum set was dodgy to begin with. It would have worked >for me only if Wire had been driven by palpable delight, rage or >mischief - instead they seemed merely cool and professional. Half- >way through the set I left my terrace seat and walked down to the >front, and enjoyed it rather more because at least the volume and >the stomach-thump of the bass had some visceral effect, but I still >didn't experience anything like the joy and the intrigue I can get any >day of the week from listening to (for example) The Ideal Copy on >CD. Spot on, sir. Absolutely spot on. Thanks for being brave enough to say it! Beforehand, I just didn't know how I was going to react. Since, on record, Wire remain the *only* band with a back catalogue that I can re-visit with any sense of excitement and innocence, I was interested to find out whether I'd feel the same about hearing the songs in a live setting. And I didn't. Much of the material they were playing is astonishing - in particular, I thought "Being Sucked In Again" sounded fabulous - and, obviously, I wouldn't be on this mailing list if I didn't feel that way. But, for me, there was no sense of wonder in any of it, Immersion excepted. When Wir(e) were last together, they were doing extraordinary things - still recognisably the same band that recorded "Pink Flag", yet mangled and disguised and polished by electronics. An utterly logical progression for an innovative, intelligent band to make...but nonetheless something that made them virtually unique, an implicit condemnation of the natural conservatism of most pop bands. For the much-anticipated next step to be a return to the clumpy, wooden world of the unadorned guitar band, whether playing old material or new, strikes me as being more than slightly disappointing. If they'd all become cab drivers in the last ten years and had reformed purely for the cash, then I'd be being unreasonable in my demands. But, over the last decade, their projects as individuals have always showed an insatiable desire for new angles and options. The fire is clearly not extinguished...yet, for me, it was noticeably absent on Saturday night. In essence, pop music continues to rule a large part of my life. If you want to analyse that in a Nick Hornby kinda way, it's probably a slightly sad state of affairs. But it'll be the case as long as there are new records that are capable of bowling me over...and, without wishing to provide a list, such records are as frequent now as ever. If Wire want to be part of that, then BRING IT ON. I dare say that I'll be at the Garage just in case...and I'll be the one at the back shouting for them *not* to play "12XU".... :) Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:56:07 +0000 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: RFH gig Ian Grant wrote: > > > > When Wir(e) were last together, they were doing extraordinary things - > still recognisably the same band that recorded "Pink Flag", yet mangled and > disguised and polished by electronics. An utterly logical progression for > an innovative, intelligent band to make...but nonetheless something that > made them virtually unique, an implicit condemnation of the natural > conservatism of most pop bands. For the much-anticipated next step to be a > return to the clumpy, wooden world of the unadorned guitar band, whether > playing old material or new, strikes me as being more than slightly > disappointing. According to Ian Penman's piece in The Wire magazine, the absence of electronics is a condition of Robert's involvement. I'm a bit surprised that the other members agreed to being constrained in this way. Perhaps they've become disillusioned with electronics themselves? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 04:58:44 PST From: "bren mac greine" Subject: Shameless plug (was Radio silence) www.isis.ie/xfm Yes a shameless plug for me own show. The Planetary Sitin: tuesdays from 8pm - 10pm local time repeated saturdays from 7pm - 9pm Also check SIGNAL Fridays from 9:30pm - 11:30pm (Last friday had a WIRE interview plus live tracks etc.) Yea, I do a show on tuesday evenings (irish/british local time) where you're bound to hear WIRE. Tonight'll have some tracks from RFH CD plus some tracks from SWIM team #1 so there...... ciao Bren ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:05:47 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Wire/PTV Dear Paul, Below is your email as I received it - plainly something is missing between 'his collaborators' and 'chase publicity'. Presumably it's something along the lines of [Wire don't] chase publicity - but if anything more substantial than that got lost in transmission, perhaps you could re-send? >>>> that was basically it ; censored by the net i guess I take your point about Genesis P-Orridge. An extremely image- conscious performer, and yes, the quality of Psychic TV's work has been uneven - more uneven than that of Wire and its offshoots. I didn't see the Birmingham gig you mention, but I have a couple of live albums from around that time (Live in Tokyo, Live in Glasgow) and they're not exactly magnificent, so I can well believe that your Birmingham gig was so-so. However, there's a live video of a gig in Manchester Polytechnic from two years later (1988) which is one of the most extraordinary concerts I've ever seen in terms of atmosphere and audience involvement... They were a funny band, PTV. In 1993 they released the albums PEAK HOUR and AL-OR-AL - one a faceless soft-edged 'house' dance effort, the other a multilayered avant-garde extravaganza, possibly the most challenging record they ever made. That's what happens, I guess, when you put a band name to anything that has some GPO involvement regardless of the other personnel. Imagine the confusion that would have been caused if Bruce Gilbert had issued AB OVO as a 'Wire' release. (with a removable sticker: From the people who brought you 'So And Slow It Grows'!) >>>>>> yep , i think you should appreciate how wire have never tried to "cash in" on the name ; funny projects get funny names. Getting back to the RFH gig. I'm not sure how many people left with 'smiley faces' as you said. The atmosphere of the crowd as they were filing out seemed pretty subdued to me. Perhaps it would be fair to say that the really hard-core Wire fans - the ones who were pogoing at the front, for example - thought it was wonderful, but that many others had reservations of various kinds. The emails so far tend to bear this out. Most revealing perhaps is the concluding comment of one Michael Flaherty: "Well, we take what we can get". Once a fan has decided to support a band, it's like a relationship commitment, for better & for worse, and flaws which are glaring from an outsider's point of view are forgiven. >>>>> i concede i'm not exactly unbiased , but the people around me all seemed very pleased with it all I get the impression, by the way, that the one part of the gig that even the most committed Wire fans had trouble with was Daniel Miller's 'DJ' set. This, I think, gets right to the heart of the gig's shortcomings. There was nothing wrong with those Wire samples being remixed into a continuous aural wash. It was a great idea, and the sounds were superb. If it had been released as a new Duet Emmo CD, we all would have bought it and would possibly be playing it right now, enjoying it immensely. The problem was that it was being 'performed' by two tiny nondescript guys on a dark stage, making no contact whatsoever with anyone but each other (and that very minimal - a nod or two), in front of a screen broadcasting a white dot flashing on and off, in a bloody huge hall with thousands of people restlessly wandering about fetching drinks and going to the toilet. Miller (and Wire) seriously misjudged the effect that such a 'performance' could possibly have in such circumstances. If they imagined that people would be transfixed or astounded they were stretching the limits of the fans' trust very far! >>>>>> well i quite enjoyed the djing , i think it was good that the supports were a bit more "modern" given the "retro" main act. the video was , of course , pants. surely dm could have syphoned off some erasure royalties and invested in a visual treat. shame! Again, while acknowledging that PTV had their 'off' gigs, and not doubting that the one you saw was tedious, I would suggest that PTV's RFH performance was a good example of something that Wire seem to have given very little thought to - how to generate engagement, strong reaction and visceral excitement in a large hall filled with thousands of sitting punters. >>>>>> i dunno. is it really so hard to piss a crowd off and set up some "tension"? i think i could stand up there and achieve that , but i wouldn't attempt to say it had any value.i thought it was exciting , though the nottm show in the small venue was more visceral i guess. if you want that sort of experience maybe you shouldn't book the nice surrounds of the rfh........ As for your concluding comment, 'We always have a choice', I agree only up to a point. Someone in the USA who booked a plane ticket as soon as they heard that Wire were playing a gig would have done so in ignorance of its retro nature. Arriving in England and perhaps learning more from a newspaper, they would hardly exercise their 'choice' by getting straight back on the plane or going to see some other band instead! Similarly, someone who was really looking forward to Malka Spigel's set (as I was) had no way of guessing that she wouldn't actually sing or perform, but would merely stand silhouetted in front of a video screen. I'm not complaining about Malka Spigel - the Immersion set was charming - I'm just saying that punters have no magic way of predicting to what degree a band is going to deliver what it appears to be promising. The 'choice' is therefore not much of a choice at all. Mind you, I wholeheartedly approve of bands doing something completely different from what the audience expects of them (again, witness PTV) but in such a case the onus is on the band to blow everyone's doubts away with an unforgettably great performance. Best wishes, >>>>>> i meant that nobody forces you to buy a ticket (or a pink flag in a jar) , its up to you. my view on shows is that i pay the money , i watch the show and then decide if i liked it. sometimes its great , sometimes its crap , but i don't see the artists i like as having any particular duty to do greatest hits or new material or whatever. i sort of take what i'm given and if its no use i don't go back for more. so i'll see you all at highbury........ ps hope stuart and john don't mind going back to highbury , they must have had so many bad experiences there over the years :-) p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 05:46:03 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: Re: Wire RFH [DJxDJ] > The problem was that it was being 'performed' by two > tiny nondescript guys on a dark stage, making no > contact whatsoever with anyone but each other The problem for me was that they made so little contact with the /sounds/ - they simply didn't do enough to justify the performance as a piece in itself. Coupled with that, it was the only event of the night that I didn't watch all the way through as it was incredibly boring after ten minutes or so. [Immersion] > someone who was > really looking forward to Malka Spigel's set (as I > was) had no way of guessing that she wouldn't > actually sing or perform, but would merely stand > silhouetted in front of a video screen. Immersion were billed, not Colin+Malka, and anyone who has heard any Immersion would have known that it's kind of subtle and understated. Anyone expecting C+M to "rock-out" would have been somewhat missing the point! It's a case of expectation vs reality. Immersion more or less delivered on that front for me and improved as their 'set' went on. The fact that they weren't jumping up and down or playing guitars is neither here nor there as visually it retained the interest with the video stuff, which is the point really. [Wire] > Wire seem to have given very little thought to - > how to generate engagement, strong reaction > and visceral excitement in a large hall filled > with thousands of sitting punters. Well, I thought the Wire set was engaging enough. After all, it's always been about the music, and the set was quite tight. Overall, the majority of the sound was good. Being someone who has made no secret of admiration for the more electronic side of Wire, I would be someone that shouldn't have been impressed with RFH, but I was. The reasons were simple: Wire were playing well, enjoying themselves, and presenting an alternative slant on some tunes I really like, most notably the improvements on the '80s tracks. Compare this to their last major reformation and it becomes obvious that this time they have created a platform from which they can expand upon. What else would have been possible? An all new set? I imagine that would have been rather ropey. Electronics? Not in the time-scale. I guess the other problem is that Wire have a quite diverse fan base, and keeping all of them happy was never going to happen. However, most of those I saw after the gig looked happy, or at least content (along with a few people renderred speechless) and those I actually spoke to seemed to have a great time. Craig/WV. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. Snub.Comms: http://welcome.to/snub Veer Audio: http://listen.to/veer - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 08:25:32 -0600 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: Re: ptv/wire Not having seen thee majesty (thee thee?), but, having seen the master musicians and classing their performance amongst one of the highest musical events possible,I don't think that GP's choice was intended to pissoff the audience. Tthough Icertainly have no doubt that a certain portion would not 'get it'. Here in chicago as headliners in a well-publicized performance, the uninitiated were visibly disturbed. There is, however a difference between something which is strange and powerfull and simply rattling the chains for it's own sake. GP is capable of both, but I would hate for anyone on the list who is not farmiliar with the Master Musicians of Joujouka to get the impression that they are (or could be in any way) shills for GP to build aggression. Actually, I think this was an extremely agressive choice of an opener - a tough act to follow if ever there weas one d __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:58 -0600 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: i REALLY must turn spell-check on ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:20:44 -0000 From: "Michel Faber" Subject: Re: ptv/wire Dear MackDaddyD, I'm glad you made this point, and you're right. The Master Musicians of Joujouka were fabulous, and Genesis P made his genuine (and long-term) admiration for them very clear. There was nothing cool or ironic in the way he introduced/outroduced them on the night. However, GPO is a devious and paradoxical character and I'm sure he had no difficulty wishing two contradictory things at once: (1) that the audience would fall deliriously in love with the music of Joujouka, and/or (2) that the audience would be driven wild with frustration and confusion by these old Moroccan dervishes. I'd say he achieved a bit of both. Remember 'IBM', the piercingly discordant opening track to Throbbing Gristle's DOA? GPO has stated that it was deliberately chosen to scare off the casual browser who might ask for the LP to be put on in a listening booth. That doesn't mean he didn't like the track himself, or hope that listeners would like it too - it proves he's the sort of guy who gets a kick out of scaring off the faint-hearted. Is this need to test-test-test the limits all the time nothing more than egomania? Some might say so, and I'd understand why, but there's no getting away from the fact that TG and PTV, in an astonishingly short space of years, made a prodigious amount of fine and varied exploratory music. Rather like Wire, really... _______________________________________________________ From: "MackDaddyD" To: Subject: Re: ptv/wire Date sent: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 08:25:32 -0600 Not having seen thee majesty (thee thee?), but, having seen the master musicians and classing their performance amongst one of the highest musical events possible,I don't think that GP's choice was intended to pissoff the audience. Tthough Icertainly have no doubt that a certain portion would not 'get it'. Here in chicago as headliners in a well-publicized performance, the uninitiated were visibly disturbed. There is, however a difference between something which is strange and powerfull and simply rattling the chains for it's own sake. GP is capable of both, but I would hate for anyone on the list who is not farmiliar with the Master Musicians of Joujouka to get the impression that they are (or could be in any way) shills for GP to build aggression. Actually, I think this was an extremely agressive choice of an opener - - a tough act to follow if ever there weas one d ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:42:03 -0500 From: Max Schmid Subject: Dublin interview available Since no one from XFM posted the news here, a 50 minute interview with WIRE in Dublin is now up on their website: http://www.isis.ie/xfm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:11:32 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V3 #48 Interesting posting from Michael, though I could've done without the description of Genesis Porridge kissing punters on the lips. I nearly regurgitated my lunch. I said I thought the gig was `fantastic' which might have sounded a bit glib - perhaps it was. But it's not a bad word to describe it, used in its true sense - which of us, a year ago imagined seeing Wire live, let alone performing old stuff? That dosen't mean I don't have a few criticisms. I would have preferred to see more new stuff and radical re-interpretations of the old rather than the fairly straight versions we were given - that said, some of them which never meant much to me before (eg Being sucked) took on a new dimension live. I was also slightly disappointed that they have junked technology altogether - apparently at the insistance of Robert `Ned Ludd' Gotobed (though after the way he faded from the picture last time round you can understand it from his viewpoint). And I can't agree with someone else's comment,that the eighties stuff sounded better done with guitars only - Boiling boy was good, it's true, but Madman's honey sounded more like Madman's mushy peas. I think if this is a launchpad, which apparently it is, then playing the old stuff straight is absolutely fine at this stage. I might lose interest if they're still doing it in two years ... but what are the chances of that happening?? Most of Michael's other criticisms were basically about the sit-down venue, which did lead to a slightly odd atmosphere. Wire certainly looked a lot more than `coolly professional' in Nottingham - I'd say they are well into it, and if it came over differently on saturday (and I'm not sure that it did) it was probably down to nerves. As for banter with the audience - hardly a sine qua non for a good gig is it? Anyway, there's always Highbury garage for us to collect our tongue sarnies from Colin ... Mwah Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:15:03 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: ptv/wire >just read michaels long mail about the gig , interesting to see the different opinions. i don't see the current "retro phase" as a negative thing at all ; its something they've never done before and its nice to see some classic songs get another airing. the big question Exactly. They've refused to do the old stuff for so long, it's become the norm. They should be praised for challenging the expectations of those who just wanted new stuff, or the sound of a vacumn cleaner put through a flanger....Now they break their rules, and by association, our expectations. I can't beleive all the moaning. Wire *exist* at the moment. Hopefully new stuff will follow. You can play "The Ideal Copy" anytime, but you can't see Wire everyday. Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Out of the Void. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:18:20 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: Wire/PTV >If it had been released as a new Duet Emmo CD, we all would have bought it and would possibly be playing it >right now, enjoying it immensely I wouldn't. I'd be taking it back to the shop. Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Out of the Void. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 11:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: BOURGEOISIE Subject: Fear, loathing, and sound dental hygiene, are you down with it? <> Uh...isn't disrespect for your "idols" typical punk fare? At the Sex Pistols re-union in Tennessee, fans continued the time honored tradition of spitting on the band....so much so that His Highness, Queen Johnny stopped the show and had security remove a man who had spit upon him. Once the man was in the custody of Security guards...John boldly proclaimed that he would "kick his ass later." In somewhat related news, I acquired a book detailing Gangs and Gang related activity written by Southern Evangelists. With the help of the book, I discovered that the Singer in a punk rock band is called the "Oi," and this is why the fans chant "Oi, Oi, Oi," at the band.... Robert. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:20:00 -0600 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: In RE: rft/wir(e)/ptv/ the ideal copy > ...Now they break their rules, and by association, our expectations. > I can't beleive all the moaning. Wire *exist* at the moment A hearty echo to this sentiment NOTHING I have read has shaken my excitement at the upcoming Chicago show. "Its all good" d __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:21:48 -0600 From: "MackDaddyD" Subject: Re: Fear, loathing, and sound dental hygiene, are you down with it? thank you for sharing i had always wondered what all that oi! was about do they shed any light on the etimology of 'whup you upside the dome?' > In somewhat related news, I acquired a book detailing Gangs and Gang related > activity written by Southern Evangelists. With the help of the book, I discovered > that the Singer in a punk rock band is called the "Oi," and this is why the fans > chant "Oi, Oi, Oi," at the band.... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 29 Feb 2000 13:26:52 -0600 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: In RE: rft/wir(e)/ptv/ the ideal copy Uh... yeah! Ditto. Jack MackDaddyD wrote: >NOTHING I have read has shaken my excitement at the upcoming >Chicago show. > >"Its all good" > >d > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 20:54:48 -0000 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: The Shivering Man Changing the subject a little, can anyone tell me whether I should buy this record. I'm a fan of only some of the solo stuff (The first He Said album, Newman's early efforts...not so keen on Dome or Duet Emmo etc) but I really love AC Marias. Advice? Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Out of the Void. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Feb 2000 14:55:41 -0600 From: Jack Steinmann Subject: re: The Shivering Man Hey, now. Dome rocks. Jack Stephen Jackson wrote: not so keen on Dome or Duet Emmo etc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0800 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: RE: The Shivering Man I like this one, I have it on cd and I think has "This Way To" on it as well. (Or is the whole thing called "This way to the shivering man"?) Anyway, there is a real gem on there called "Epitaph for Henran Brenlar" which is a departure from the textures and noise on the CD, not that the texture and noise is bad, it's really good music to have in the background, just not engaging. Anyway, where was I? Oh yes, epitaph is in the He Said area, with Graham Providing the vocals over a phat reversed beat loop, you will like it, and the song alone may be worth the price of admission. Chad - Waiting for the S.F. shows... Waiting, uh waiting uh waiting for ussss...... - -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Jackson [mailto:smj@zen.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 12:55 PM To: Ideal Copy Subject: The Shivering Man Changing the subject a little, can anyone tell me whether I should buy this record. I'm a fan of only some of the solo stuff (The first He Said album, Newman's early efforts...not so keen on Dome or Duet Emmo etc) but I really love AC Marias. Advice? Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Out of the Void. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:45:45 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: the wire Paul, I bought a copy of The Wire (3 Pounds).There are some great photos of the lads & a pretty in depth interview.Interview by Ian Penman/Photos by Tim Kent.The article is entitled " Flies in the ointment " & Penman knows his stuff & over the 7 pages including photos it charts the 23 years of the band straight & true.The most interesting part of the piece for me was his description of the expected tensions inherent within the four members." a sure sign of a volatile but fruitful alchemy". He describes Graham as "vociferous,spoiling for a debate,analytical,passionate going beyond paranoid - he retains the punkiest attitude". Robert is "self contained,silent until asked & then practical & self depracating to a fault" Colin "an enthusiast firing in 19 directions at once,a wide open autodidact" And Bruce."Wry,measured,accomodating,wide angle moderator,long game extremist,noise spy"! I'll throw in my penny thought about RFH on Saturday.On the gig itself, Immersion were excellent although that ethereal ambient sound with a half attentive crowd was ambitious first up placing.I really enjoyed the set while other members of the public yapped around me pissing me right off. Graham & He Said was very interesting.I,d not heard the stuff before & liked it all bar the piece where he built up his vocals into a rant which didn,t work for me.I,m not keen on "Vivid riot of red" either.Similarities? DJ x DJ started & just didn't work.The crowd around me got restless.I got a drink. The video of Drill & the Bruce demolishing the dumb blonde was a real hoot.If you missed it you missed a treat. The set was very harsh guitar,back to basics & I loved it.Wire have never had, I feel as a fan, a genuine rapport with the audience.They should have tried harder on Saturday especially as out in that full auditorium the vast majority were loyal devoted souls who wanted to converse & get feedback. It was a time to celebrate what had been achieved to date & look forward.They could have milked that audience & had them eating out of their handsif they had wanted. I travelled 80 miles.Some had travelled 5000 miles to be there."Thankyou for coming" would have been well apreciated.What do the Yanks say? The King balcony scene was an excellent introduction & typical Wire.I personally thought Michael Clark & his troup didn't work interacting on Heartbeat. I bought the T-shirt (very good quality}.Got my Pink Flag in a plastic bottle.The 5 track CD is live,harsh & the business.I really like "Art of Persistence".10 pound though is out of order.You got all 3 for 35 pounds & I managed to get a copy of HOX it ness for a tenner.Better value. I took along a friend who had not heard Wire before & his truly unbiased opinion was very positive.He,s still scratching his head over the dance sequence & the slow motion waving on the balcony. all the best.see you in MAY at the Garage. CHRISWIRE. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:50:33 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: RFH gig IG. So it was you who said " Don,t play 12XU".I should have reached out & ruffled your hair.I just clapped instead!. Chriswire ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 21:39:32 -0000 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: the wire The Wire is generally an excellent magazine, to my mind the only reasonably readily available one worth bothering with. The piece on Wire is, however, once again somewhat retrospective. I still don't fully understand if and where the band are hoping to take this current reactivation, which is what intrigues me most. Incidentally, for subscribers they occassionally include a free sampler CD.- as with the current one, which includes one of the versions of Pink Flag from the RFH rehearsal CD Check out the website at www.dfuse.com/the-wire - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 11:35 AM Subject: the wire > so was that issue of the wire they were selling at the rfh worth picking up? i didn't want to have to look after it all night so i thought i'd go find one in a newsagent later.p > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 21:22:46 -0000 From: "ian barrett" Subject: Re: The Shivering Man Steve I understand the CD version is an amalgamation of This Way and The Shivering Man (at least it used to be). I've not heard the former, but the latter is rather good. However, if some of the Gilbert/Lewis colaborations leave you cold then it's difficult to say. Angela Conway provides vocals on one track, but it would have been a weak one if it had been on "One of Our Girls.." You'd probably enjoy Lewis's (albeit brief) vocal contribution, but the stand out track for me is "There Are" featuring an all too rare Gilbert vocal. You're possibly aware already but for those who are not, MUTE are currently doing an offer of £10.00 per CD or £25.00 for 3 on their Wire and related back catalogue (inc P+P - not sure about overseas rates) As per the ad in The Wire magazine, try mailto:mutebank@mutlibtech.com or www.mute.com for info Ian - ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Jackson To: Ideal Copy Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 8:54 PM Subject: The Shivering Man > Changing the subject a little, can anyone tell me whether I should buy this > record. I'm a fan of only some of the solo stuff (The first He Said album, > Newman's early efforts...not so keen on Dome or Duet Emmo etc) but I really > love AC Marias. Advice? > > Steve. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Out of the Void. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:24:04 -0600 From: "Steve Loubert" Subject: Re: Radio silence. www.3wk.com is a station that plays mostly new, mostly indie rock. I haven't heard Wire there, but I do hear a lot of stuff I haven't heard anywhere else. www.launch.com is a station that plays what you want to hear. You tell it what you like: genres, bands, albums, and songs, and it plays them for you. You can also tell it the percentage of unfamiliar music you want to hear. They have a very large selection, including several Wire albums. It's a little bit of work getting started, but worth it. Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Edwards To: wire dudes Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:44 PM Subject: Radio silence. > Can anybody on the list tell me of some good radio stations that are > broadcast on the Internet? Wire friendly stations are obviously a big plus. > Thanks, > Mike > http://CFT.tripod.com/mikeundpat.html ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V3 #49 ******************************