From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #243 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, December 7 1999 Volume 02 : Number 243 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Re[2]: bad hair day ["tube disaster" ] Re[2]: The fourth Wire album [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Bad hair daze [Mark Short ] Haircuts and... ["Wilson, Paul" ] pil,afos@atoz ["andy and sheri wiseman" ] Re: Bad hair daze [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[4]: bad hair day [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[2]: A-Z; Wir [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re: pil,afos@atoz [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Collector Club (CC) ["charles / wmo" ] Re: bad hair day [Dave Walker ] RE: Re[2]: bad hair day ["Ciscon, Ray" ] the Swell Maps [Vinylecho@aol.com] Re: Bad hair daze [Osanders ] Re: the Swell Maps ["stephenjohnstone" ] Re: the Swell Maps ["tube disaster" ] swell maps ["andy and sheri wiseman" ] Re: the Swell Maps [radareyes@webtv.net] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 04:23:58 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: bad hair day >how about robert smith , although that was a wig so maybe it don't count? p > I do believe it was a wig only for the first couple of minutes of the concert on the In Orange video ... Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:28:13 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: The fourth Wire album >>> yes , it's funny how colin went back to all thos old wire tracks on "not to" whereas A-Z was more or less self-written. i guess the attempt was for something glossier and the old D&E stuff didn't fit the bill. i guess 5/10 and the like was perfect for 4AD............p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: The fourth Wire album Author: MIME:wireviews@yahoo.com at INTERNET Date: 06/12/1999 10:14 - --- paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > >>>>> to add my bit , i still think A-Z is > under-rated and impossible to compare to dome ; > maybe the 4th album would've been a collection of > solo pieces? Listen to Behind the Curtain and then the EMI discs. Now listen to Document and Eyewitness and try to imagine a similar kind of production jump. Although it's probably not possible to work out what the fourth album would have contained this is as good a guess as any. Also, if one looks at writing credits Colin Newman's Not To contains far more ex-Wire pieces than A-Z ... C ===== >>> Craig Grannell / Wireviews >>> Visit Wireviews at: http://welcome.to/wireviews http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html >>> wireviews@yahoo.com >>> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 09:34:36 +0000 From: Mark Short Subject: Bad hair daze Let's not forget Phil Oakey of The Human League, originator of the lopsided top. Thinking about the impending RFH gig, I'm puzzled why such a large venue has been chosen. I don't recall Wire ever playing such a big venue in their heyday. Also, does whether an Eno mailing list exists? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:00:16 -0000 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: Haircuts and... Two things. Firstly, of course A-Z isn't a Wire album! What I meant was that it SOUNDS like a Wire album. Musically it seems to follow on from the first Wire phase, better than Wire's second phase does. Does that make sense? Secondly - who really gives a shit about haircuts? Thirdly - Is there any reason why I have to read everyone's mail about six times? It really is getting annoying that when people send in replies, we get the original mail item stuck on the bottom. And if that is a reply to a reply to a reply etc., then it just gets out of hand - and very confusing and annoying. I'm sure I miss loads of interesting comments because I always end up rushing through all the stuff I've already read! We seem to be getting emails that are 1000 lines long, and only 30 of those lines are actually new stuff! (Made even worse when most of it is about fucking haircuts!) Paul KW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:57:23 -0000 From: "andy and sheri wiseman" Subject: pil,afos@atoz i've got the plastic box,but i rarely listened to it because all of the work sounds so dated except for second edition/metal box material.i have the same problem with dome1@2 and not to and a to z.i remember being thrilled at the time and maybe i will be again,but the keyboard and production technology is ageing poorly.anyone with me on this? i think i'm alone now!(fine eighties pop song).hair or no hair i am looking forward to never having to hear another flock of seagulls song.i wish i could say the same for this decades humourless, pompous musos like radiohead,manic street preachers etc. getting old. a.w ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:18:37 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: Bad hair daze how big is it? surely not as big as the astoria (2000 i think?) p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Bad hair daze Author: MIME:mshort@lucent.com at INTERNET Date: 06/12/1999 10:38 Let's not forget Phil Oakey of The Human League, originator of the lopsided top. Thinking about the impending RFH gig, I'm puzzled why such a large venue has been chosen. I don't recall Wire ever playing such a big venue in their heyday. Also, does whether an Eno mailing list exists? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:18:16 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: bad hair day no way. he live in malvern near where my girlfriends parents live and he walks around perfectly "straight" with short hair and no make-up. strangely nigel kennedy lives in the same road (if he hasn't reached the us you are extremely lucky) p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: bad hair day Author: MIME:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net at INTERNET Date: 06/12/1999 10:36 >how about robert smith , although that was a wig so maybe it don't count? p > I do believe it was a wig only for the first couple of minutes of the concert on the In Orange video ... Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:17:53 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: A-Z; Wir on that subject there's a tv computer ad running on all the main uk channels using the pixies "tame" ; prime-time pixies at last ! p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: A-Z; Wir Author: MIME:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net at INTERNET Date: 06/12/1999 10:35 >First of all, A-Z is not a Wire album. If some believe that "it really is," than I assume those people are of the opinion that Bruce and Graham were Colin's "side men" who would have played as they were told--not sure how anyone who knows anything about B & G could believe that. Maybe if you play Dome 1 and A-Z simultaneously you'll hear the 154 follow up. :-). > If only that had occurred to me a couple of years ago, before I got my latest dubbing deck ... Its predecessor would play tapes simultaneously. For awhile there I pondered playing Last Splash & Teenager of the Year to get some idea of what the Pixies would've sounded like circa '94 ... Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:22:36 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re: pil,afos@atoz >>> sort of. dome is done a bit too cheaply maybe , A-Z a little too glossy. but i don't find either terminally dated to be honest. whereas the early minimal compact stuff with all the slap bass / tinny drums is a real case of some ok material locked into a dated sound by the production (like so much of the early 80's. they tried to be ultra modern but of course the technology locks it so firmly to the time that it's now ultra-dated) agreed the manics are dull dull dull but don't you see any merits in ok computer? p i've got the plastic box,but i rarely listened to it because all of the work sounds so dated except for second edition/metal box material.i have the same problem with dome1@2 and not to and a to z.i remember being thrilled at the time and maybe i will be again,but the keyboard and production technology is ageing poorly.anyone with me on this? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:54:53 -0500 From: "charles / wmo" Subject: Collector Club (CC) Caveat Emptor! The risk for getting a disc you "may not fully appreciate" with Wire would have to be a risk of participating in such a venture. I joined the KC thing 'cause I thought it was such a unique concept! (Sorry Bob, I really couldn't make it thru Live 69!) Also, about six years ago, Gentle Giant fans attempted to "commision" the band into recording a new record! I've said it before but WMO should have been set up in these ways! I'm still waiting for a band to offer "the tape archive" or live recordings in MP3. Obviously there are good (or better) economics to doing the CC than a traditional approach, but its also about direction - Does Wire want to sign to a record label? I'm sure if Mute or someone waive The Big Bucks in their face they would, but no one is waving! The issue comes down to control as well; the band pays for, presses and sells their recordings, they own them forever. None of this EMI business. Does anyone think it unreasonable for a group to monopolize their chain of distribution? Isn't that what Prince is all about? He ditched the record company and simple deals directly with Valley Distribution (or so I've been told). Ditto Discipline - the stuff that really sells, is licensed to Virgin. The CC is more than likely a reaction to a) bootleg economics and b) people will buy anything. It's also important to note that it doesn't cost a lot of money to put "old" music out - it's already been made - and just waits for packaging. And that these type releases aren't meant to support a band and their families... When I say that Wire Mail Order has gone "internet only", it simply means that you can logon to most any computer, type http://wiremailorder.com and preview and purchase with your credit cards. That's the mechanics, but I still fill the orders. The real change is when commnuties such as ours - "The Wire Web Ring" - become economically viable for the label. Suppose I release a Thousand title, sell 500 copies through the web site. The artist/label/community then become their own ecosystem. This is what we are after. charles wmo@interserv.com http://wiremailorder.com/ >Yes--"they want". Here's the catch: DGM subscribers have a right to >refuse releases. I suspect that this has made Fripp fairly conservative in >his offerings--mostly live Crimson that the majority of the club will >garble up like Big Macs. If he presses one of his avant garde solo >releases and half the subscribers write to refuse it--well, there goes the >budget. >I assume many Wire subscribers would be less than happy to have In Esse II >show up prepaid on their credit cards. (I would be happy, but how many >others?) I'm not sure how far the club takes us away from the economics >of creating "popular" music--or if things would be that much different >than WMO w/out a "club". Let's put it this way: when I suggested a >pre-pay system to get MUZI released, the response was less than >overwhelming--so it goes on unreleased. On the other side, no club was >needed to make the Dome album or Coatings sell (judging from reports) well >enough to make it worth everyone's effort. >My enthusiasm for clubs falling, ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 09:29:21 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: bad hair day paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > how about robert smith , although that was a wig so maybe it don't count? p I always loved the Cure haircuts circa _Head on the Door_ and right after, the hair piles were so humongous, they were like some sort of demented shrubbery project gone awry, completely over the top. I always figured it was the same explanation David Byrne gave for "the big suit" -- "on stage, everything is larger than life." -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:51:16 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: RE: Re[2]: bad hair day Spandau Ballet never really hit big here, with the exception of 'True', which is so sickly sweet that to this day it makes me cringe when I hear it... It is a mainstay of the new 80's radio stations that are starting to get really popular here now... Robert Smith's hair was a wig!?!?!?!?? That, I did NOT know! Cheers, Ray Ciscon -----Original Message----- From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com [mailto:paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 2:48 AM To: idealcopy@smoe.org; dpbailey@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re[2]: bad hair day spandau ballet were certainly a tragedy , if you are from outside the uk you'll have missed martin kemp's new career as an actor in a dire soap opera , he isn't exactly rob de niro. how about robert smith , although that was a wig so maybe it don't count? p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: bad hair day Author: MIME:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net at INTERNET Date: 05/12/1999 19:28 Alive, albeit reluctantly, since I have to head to work in a few. Oh, you mean the *band* ... Well, then. Spandau Ballet. Though early Cocteau Twins -- by no means a "New Wave" act -- had the worst hair, in aggregate, that I've ever laid eyes on. Dan >dead or alive? > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: bad hair day >Author: MIME:dmack2002@yahoo.com at INTERNET >Date: 03/12/1999 23:59 > > >kajagoogoo >;) > > >__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:55:25 EST From: Vinylecho@aol.com Subject: the Swell Maps Howdy, I know off topic yet again ... but I only have one album (A Trip to Marineville) by these seminal noisemakers and I was wondering what other Swell Maps records Sonic Youth and Pavement also listened to as well ... Any suggestions? later JULIAN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 11:41:16 -0800 From: Osanders Subject: Re: Bad hair daze We are forgetting the ultimate: Sigue Sigue Sputnik ! paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: > > how big is it? surely not as big as the astoria (2000 i think?) p > > Let's not forget Phil Oakey of The Human League, originator of the lopsided top. > > Thinking about the impending RFH gig, I'm puzzled why such a large venue has been chosen. I don't recall Wire ever playing such a big venue in their heyday. > > Also, does whether an Eno mailing list exists? - -- **************************** Obie Sanders/ System Administrator ADN - --------------------------- osanders@adnc.com/ext.273 **************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:15:59 -0000 From: "stephenjohnstone" Subject: Re: the Swell Maps May I suggest Swell maps "Jane from occupied Europe" this is a belter of an album A few others of my favorites: These Immortal Souls Jacobites The Chamber Strings Current 93 Felt Thin White Rope Epic Soundtracks (RIP) solo stuff - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 3:55 PM Subject: the Swell Maps > Howdy, > > I know off topic yet again ... but I only have one album (A Trip to > Marineville) by these seminal noisemakers and I was wondering what other > Swell Maps records Sonic Youth and Pavement also listened to as well ... Any > suggestions? > > later > JULIAN > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:06:16 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: the Swell Maps >May I suggest Swell maps "Jane from occupied Europe" this is a belter of an >album > >A few others of my favorites: > >>Current 93 Interesting timing ... with Xmas less than 3 weeks off, I recorded Crowleymass as an MP3 (which after more than a year of desultory efforts I learned how to play just this morning, being a technological dolt, so I could listen to excerpts from the Cure's upcoming album) only a few hours ago & just got through listening to it. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:08:17 -0000 From: "andy and sheri wiseman" Subject: swell maps "read about seymour" the swell maps,i love this single. very pink flag. a.w ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:27:29 -0600 (CST) From: radareyes@webtv.net Subject: Re: the Swell Maps I think that "Jane From Occupied Europe" is their best LP. The Swell Maps were very much into krautrock bands (like Faust, CAN, Cluster, etc..) They also liked other stuff like Red Krayola. Hey is it true that Mute will reissue their albums on CD again in 2000? They origianlly reissued them in like '91 but for some fucked up reason Mute made them quickly go out of print. If they do reissue them properly again, I hope they include the bonus tracks like they did before. ciao! gem ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #243 *******************************