From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #225 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, November 17 1999 Volume 02 : Number 225 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Life in the Manscape [Wireviews ] re: A Lists [Wireviews ] Re[2]: Life in the Manscape [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Re[3]: Life in the Manscape [jerry.butson@emimusic.com (jerry butson)] Re[4]: Life in the Manscape [paul.rabjohn@ssab.com] Prog? Manscape? ["Cambra, Robert" ] Manscape ["Ciscon, Ray" ] Re: Re[2]: prog rock [John Roberts ] Re: Manscape ["tube disaster" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #224 [flaherty michael w Subject: Re: Life in the Manscape - --- paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: [life in the manscape] > i think they got it wrong not making > one of these a single to try and promote it a bit > harder (maybe that was the original plan?). A CD5 including some remixes was released as a single, but only in the US. (It was, AFIAK, also tacked on to the Japanese release of Manscape). Quite why Mute UK didn't release the LIIM single is beyond me - even if sales weren't too hot, that's never stopped them before!!! Perhaps it was Wire that didn't want it out, who knows? C ===== >>> Craig Grannell / Wireviews >>> Visit Wireviews at: http://welcome.to/wireviews http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html >>> wireviews@yahoo.com >>> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:36:56 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: re: A Lists - --- Jack Steinmann wrote: > And yes, Come Back in Two Halves (re-recorded) is > excellent. I haven't seen the new a-list. Like someone said, it's not changed that much, although 12XU continues to climb from almost no votes to #20. Now the forms actually work properly on Wireviews it seems I'm getting a couple of lists per week. > Any votes for Crystal Streams? 3r4? Not yet. > Rolling Upon My Day? #27. C ===== >>> Craig Grannell / Wireviews >>> Visit Wireviews at: http://welcome.to/wireviews http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html >>> wireviews@yahoo.com >>> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:44:48 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[2]: Life in the Manscape >>> i never saw the japanese album but i've got the 5-track us single. i thought it would have been a good release here (UK). i mean they even did a uk tour for manscape so they promoted it that way....p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Life in the Manscape Author: MIME:wireviews@yahoo.com at INTERNET Date: 16/11/1999 10:32 - --- paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: [life in the manscape] > i think they got it wrong not making > one of these a single to try and promote it a bit > harder (maybe that was the original plan?). A CD5 including some remixes was released as a single, but only in the US. (It was, AFIAK, also tacked on to the Japanese release of Manscape). Quite why Mute UK didn't release the LIIM single is beyond me - even if sales weren't too hot, that's never stopped them before!!! Perhaps it was Wire that didn't want it out, who knows? C ===== >>> Craig Grannell / Wireviews >>> Visit Wireviews at: http://welcome.to/wireviews http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html >>> wireviews@yahoo.com >>> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:51:19 +0000 From: jerry.butson@emimusic.com (jerry butson) Subject: Re[3]: Life in the Manscape - --IMA.Boundary.4760572490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part The remix of LITM is a corker, but why that (weak IMO) track and not Stampede (perhaps treated to a stomping remix) or a quirky little number like Small Black Reptile? Come to think of it there's some great stuff on Manscape. Patterns of Behaviour...Torch It...They Hung Their Lights in the Trees... I could go on! j >>> i never saw the japanese album but i've got the 5-track us single. i thought it would have been a good release here (UK). i mean they even did a uk tour for manscape so they promoted it that way....p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Life in the Manscape Author: MIME:wireviews@yahoo.com at INTERNET Date: 16/11/1999 10:32 - --- paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: [life in the manscape] > i think they got it wrong not making > one of these a single to try and promote it a bit > harder (maybe that was the original plan?). A CD5 including some remixes was released as a single, but only in the US. (It was, AFIAK, also tacked on to the Japanese release of Manscape). Quite why Mute UK didn't release the LIIM single is beyond me - even if sales weren't too hot, that's never stopped them before!!! Perhaps it was Wire that didn't want it out, who knows? C ===== >>> Craig Grannell / Wireviews >>> Visit Wireviews at: http://welcome.to/wireviews http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html >>> wireviews@yahoo.com >>> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - --IMA.Boundary.4760572490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net ([24.128.1.70]) by vmailntwks10.trinite.co.uk with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 3.13) id 00299090; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:53:00 +0000 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [24.30.216.55]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19331; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id EAA08194; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:50:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:50:34 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id EAA08184 for idealcopy-outgoing; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.udac.net (smtp.udac.net [193.44.79.123]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with ESMTP id EAA08180 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:50:19 -0500 (EST) From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Received: from lpd2.udac.se (mail2.udac.net [192.36.179.11]) by smtp.udac.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04999 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:46:17 +0100 Received: from uucp1.udac.net (uucp3.udac.net [192.36.179.12]) by mail2.udac.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA26789; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:04:04 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp1.udac.net (8.8.6/8.8.0) with UUCP id KAA16469; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:46:28 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:44:48 +0100 To: idealcopy@smoe.org, wireviews@yahoo.com Subject: Re[2]: Life in the Manscape MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: TFS Secure Messaging /222000000/222020954/222002769/222100545/ X-Mailer: Version 4 Build 211 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by smoe.org id EAA08181 Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk - --IMA.Boundary.4760572490-- . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 12:45:24 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Subject: Re[4]: Life in the Manscape yes , with its "topical" (and excellent) lyrics stampede would have been a great single. i donated my set of photos from the bristol gig of the manscape tour to the website but they havn't used my personal favourite which was one of colin doing a steering wheel mime whilst he sung stampede. thinking about that gig has just wet my appetite for next feb even more.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re[3]: Life in the Manscape Author: MIME:jerry.butson@emimusic.com at INTERNET Date: 16/11/1999 12:30 The remix of LITM is a corker, but why that (weak IMO) track and not Stampede (perhaps treated to a stomping remix) or a quirky little number like Small Black Reptile? Come to think of it there's some great stuff on Manscape. Patterns of Behaviour...Torch It...They Hung Their Lights in the Trees... I could go on! j >>> i never saw the japanese album but i've got the 5-track us single. i thought it would have been a good release here (UK). i mean they even did a uk tour for manscape so they promoted it that way....p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Life in the Manscape Author: MIME:wireviews@yahoo.com at INTERNET Date: 16/11/1999 10:32 - --- paul.rabjohn@ssab.com wrote: [life in the manscape] > i think they got it wrong not making > one of these a single to try and promote it a bit > harder (maybe that was the original plan?). A CD5 including some remixes was released as a single, but only in the US. (It was, AFIAK, also tacked on to the Japanese release of Manscape). Quite why Mute UK didn't release the LIIM single is beyond me - even if sales weren't too hot, that's never stopped them before!!! Perhaps it was Wire that didn't want it out, who knows? C ===== >>> Craig Grannell / Wireviews >>> Visit Wireviews at: http://welcome.to/wireviews http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html >>> wireviews@yahoo.com >>> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net ([24.128.1.70]) by vmailntwks10.trinite.co.uk with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 3.13) id 00299090; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:53:00 +0000 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [24.30.216.55]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19331; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id EAA08194; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:50:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:50:34 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id EAA08184 for idealcopy-outgoing; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.udac.net (smtp.udac.net [193.44.79.123]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with ESMTP id EAA08180 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:50:19 -0500 (EST) From: paul.rabjohn@ssab.com Received: from lpd2.udac.se (mail2.udac.net [192.36.179.11]) by smtp.udac.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04999 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:46:17 +0100 Received: from uucp1.udac.net (uucp3.udac.net [192.36.179.12]) by mail2.udac.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA26789; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:04:04 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp1.udac.net (8.8.6/8.8.0) with UUCP id KAA16469; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:46:28 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:44:48 +0100 To: idealcopy@smoe.org, wireviews@yahoo.com Subject: Re[2]: Life in the Manscape MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: TFS Secure Messaging /222000000/222020954/222002769/222100545/ X-Mailer: Version 4 Build 211 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by smoe.org id EAA08181 Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 14:02:32 -0500 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: Prog? Manscape? Funny--when listening to “The Queen of Ur and the King of Um” some years ago I was very surprised to be reminded of early King Crimson. It was the first time anything remotely punk reminded me of something considered prog rock--but not the last time. I always figured that “Manscape” was that one time Wire went into the studio, gave it their best effort as always, but the music just didn’t ignite. One can’t make sparks every time, and I think it’s rather impressive that this would happen only once with so many years of work. It’s not a bad album--hey, I have three versions of it!--but we have high expectations. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 14:09:27 -0600 From: "Ciscon, Ray" Subject: Manscape My whole problem with 'Manscape' is that there wasn't anything on the entire CD that I could 'grab' onto. I don't think it had the hooks or 'pop sensibility' of the Beat Combo era albums to initially attract me to the songs. If a CD doesn't provide that initial connection to the music, it tends to end up in the storage section of my collection. I'll never forget driving home from the record store with 'Manscape' in my car CD player. I managed to hear the first few songs before I got home. On the way into the house, I couldn't remember a single thing about the portion of the CD I'd heard... A full listen to it in the house produced the same results. 'Manscape' is one of those CD's by an artist I respect that I try to listen to straight through at least once a year, hoping that a connection will finally be made... it hasn't happened yet, but I won't stop trying. Cheers, Ray Ciscon For the best response to support issues, remember to address any inquires to the I.S. Support Center: Voice: HELP or 4357 E-Mail: Fill out an I.S. Support Center Call Form in the Public Folder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:23:52 +0000 (GMT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: Re[2]: prog rock Life in the Manscape was definitely scheduled as a single. It was given a catalogue number and everything. I think I'm right in saying that it appears on the listings/catalogue that you get with mute product just prior to its non appearance. On the album...a mate of mine who I did a tape of the prerelease tape for said that the tape differs from the CD in its mix partic. Hung Lights from trees. I'll have to have a listen and report. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:49:02 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Manscape Interesting timing for these posts, as second-incarnation Wire is virtually all I've listened to the last couple of weeks (esp. Coatings, which is playing even as I type, though I almost always skip over Ambulance Chasers), for some reason, ever since getting home from seeing the Buzzcocks in Chicago ... probably more than I've ever played those albums before, in fact. And since I've somehow mislaid my A Bell Is A Cup/It's Beginning To cassette (I've been listening mainly at bedtime, which means the vinyl I dubbed them off of isn't really an option), by default I've been driven to listening to the two I generally do well to listen to more than every 5 years or so, Ideal Copy & Manscape. (Well, Drill, too, but at this rate it'll probably take a few more years to grow on me.) Manscape surely isn't as immediately accessible as its predecessors -- there's no obvious can't-miss track like the earlier singles or, looking forward, So & Slow or Take It (though You Hung Your Lights in the Trees could, for me, wind up joining their ranks) -- & even at this late date I have to agree that much of the album seems to pass by without leaving a discernible impact. And yet, at the end my overall impression is becoming more favorable with each listen, which is something I couldn't have said, say, 5 years ago (probably about the last time I'd listened to it). And 5 years ago, I probably would've said something very similar about Cup & Beginning, so the trend is definitely an encouraging one. Dan >My whole problem with 'Manscape' is that there wasn't anything on the entire >CD that I could 'grab' onto. > >I don't think it had the hooks or 'pop sensibility' of the Beat Combo era >albums to initially attract me to the songs. > >If a CD doesn't provide that initial connection to the music, it tends to >end up in the storage section of my collection. > >I'll never forget driving home from the record store with 'Manscape' in my >car CD player. I managed to hear the first few songs before I got home. On >the way into the house, I couldn't remember a single thing about the portion >of the CD I'd heard... A full listen to it in the house produced the same >results. > >'Manscape' is one of those CD's by an artist I respect that I try to listen >to straight through at least once a year, hoping that a connection will >finally be made... it hasn't happened yet, but I won't stop trying. > >Cheers, > >Ray Ciscon > > >For the best response to support issues, remember to address any inquires to >the >I.S. Support Center: >Voice: HELP or 4357 >E-Mail: Fill out an I.S. Support Center Call Form in the Public Folder > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:30:06 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #224 > From: "Jack Steinmann" > Subject: re: prog rock > > I must be one of the only advocates of Manscape on this list. We're in a minority, I think, but we're here. I think Manscape and Wir are the best "reunion" era albums. I have three contentions: > 1) The sequencing of the vinyl album, which is shorter by three songs, is superior to that of the CD, and it makes a big difference in the "flow" (and appreciation) of the songs. I made a tape that followed the original order; I found I liked it about the same, but again, this is probably not typical. > 2) "Patterns of Behaviour" is brilliant. One of Bruce's finest moments. > 3) "Children of Groceries," "Small Black Reptile," "Goodbye Ploy," - -- all overlooked gems. I really agree. Last year this subject came up here, and as I said then, I think Manscape has some of Graham's best lyrics. OK, so the Bruce learning his parts was a joke and I didn't get it. But seriously, if they play old stuff is he likely to play them the same way as before anyway? This is Bruce Gilbert were talking about, after all. :) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #225 *******************************