From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #45 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, February 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 045 Today's Subjects: ----------------- medium , tedium [paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se] RE: the medium is the mess ["Wilson, Chad" ] Re: medium , tedium ["Mack" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #44 ["charles" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #44 [Andrew N Westmeyer ] new and improved music delivery options ["Mack" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #44 [Aaron Mandel ] Re: music as non-reality [Vinylecho@aol.com] Re: medium , tedium ["tube disaster" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:07:38 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: medium , tedium gosh all that discussion of mp3's was a little dull i must say. i do this from work and someone stole my speakers (bastard) so even if i could be arsed to work it out there wouldn't be much point. and if men didn't have record shops to spend hours browsing around , what would they do with the time? think of all those poor wives and girlfriends deprived of their peace and quiet! long live record stores ! a thought. every year gets better and better for music as you still have all the great stuff from the past , to which more and more is added with each year that passes. i think that's a nice way of looking at it.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:47:33 -0800 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: RE: the medium is the mess I guess I have to reluctantly agree here. I am spoiled by a T1 at work so... Go figure... One thing mp3.com does is allow real audio previews, which work well at 28.8. Another thing they do is allow you to search for keywords, like "Wire" and I was able to find a couple of cool bands, one that sounded a bit like wire, and one that did not. Not that a band has to sound like Wire to be good or anything... But you get the point, in that respect it is like asking a salesperson "Hey I like Wire, what else would I probably like?". Or words to that effect, ;-) Chad - -----Original Message----- From: Brian [mailto:bbarnett@grin.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:43 AM To: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Cc: Grand Mute Proof Subject: Re: the medium is the mess Point well taken the real problem with MP3 is the infrastructure does not support it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:57:55 -0600 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: medium , tedium Subject: medium , tedium >a thought. every year gets better and better for music as you still have all the great stuff from the past , to which more and more is added with each year that passes. i think that's a nice way of looking at it. here here! (hear hear?) emphatic echo and just to raise the point, if you can't play records (including 78's) you miss out on all the great stuff which no-one has 'deemed nessicary' to digitize David (who is still getting over missing gatefold sleeve art (and) how DO kids seperate the seeds these days anyways? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:55:36 -0800 From: "charles" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #44 >Creative freedom: fucking excellent. Maybe gone will be the days when into a niche or be the mate of some tosspot A&R man in order to >produce records. >Why should someone deem music necessary of commercial release? >Surely, it's just a matter of taste and then, probably more so, >whether it will fit nicely into a pigeon hole of a label's marketing >strategy. >Quite frankly Wire were lucky. Without Thorne Wire would have been >deemed too bizarre, too different for release by the vast majority of >labels, if not all of them. EMI partly signed them up due to messing >up with the Pistols and due to a couple of ex-Cambridge guys going >"Hey, these guys are great". >What happens when those very same barriers are preventing music >getting out that is bloody amazing - because someone decides no-one >wants it. Remember, each "movement" has its beginnings somewhere. >Perhaps the potentially most important thing to happen to music -ever- >will not be released becuase some A&R people decide, wrongly, that it >won't sell. Sure, MP3's, the 'net, and CD-R won't solve this, but it >may go some way to helping. That's a very naive view. ANYONE can make music - releasing a record is a completely seperate thing. Technology or the lack thereof won't prevent an artist from creating music. And creating music specifically for release is what, "product"? I beleive Wire were signed because they were a great band - I'm sure that Mike Thorne saw a shit load of bands that weren't. The Beatles were passed countless times, but George Martin finally took them up. If it's good - someone_will_find_it. Don't think that there are A&R people that plot on what gets released and what doesn't - all they do is try to figure out what SELLS. If Swim had a major label budget would Ronnie & Clyde be the next Ronnisize? Your guess is as good as mine. Should WMO release everything that Wire every did? I ask myself this every day. Does something like MZUI or P'o really need to be released on CD? Did it even need to be released on vinyl in the first place? The only valid reason is if it has an audience that wants it. The fact that more music than every is being released - be it on physical product or computer file - just makes finiding an audience more difficult. charles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #44 Excerpts from mail: 24-Feb-99 Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #44 by "charles"@interserv.com > Should WMO release everything that Wire ever did? I ask > myself this every day. Wow, sometimes I talk to myself, but you definitely win the award! :) I'm wondering - does anyone think record stores will become obsolete? I mean, there are places like CDuctive where you can just list the songs you want and they'll make a custom burn for you. On the other hand, there's something enjoyable about browsing in a real store (as opposed to a virtual store). (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "He'd got ooperzootics on the brain." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:32:58 -0600 From: "Mack" Subject: new and improved music delivery options I personally have not found MP-3 or CDuctive that usefull for my admittedly narrow needs. But I do find that I find tons of stuff (music, video and books) online at better prices and or availability than I can in the concrete world of Chicago. Ordering CDs directly from small labels and distributers in Europe and Japan has become a standard rather than a novelty. And STILL - I find myself browsing the bins in a record store at least twice a week. Old habits die hard. MP-3 (and video on demand) seem to be the ideal delivery mechanisms, I just havn't caught up on all the music already produced on physical media. media is dead - long live the ether ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:07:22 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #44 On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Andrew N Westmeyer wrote: > I'm wondering - does anyone think record stores will become obsolete? maybe, but > I mean, there are places like CDuctive where you can just list the > songs you want and they'll make a custom burn for you. this won't be why. the customizability of those services is a selling point for relatively few people, and those people already don't buy full albums, if they buy any music at all. what might kill record stores, if anything, is the *next* industry slump after this one, after download-and-burn booths (tell them you want the new Pearl Jam album when you enter the mall; pick it up in half an hour -- no inventory, no floorspace, one employee and a fast internet link) and online mailorder have acquired a decent chunk of the market. some major label that wants to downsize will pull everything but the absolute guaranteed sellers from their print-in-advance distribution lines and, if they don't fold because of it, another will follow suit... used record stores won't die, though, and no doubt some of them would be happy to pick up slack in the unused-record market. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:35:17 EST From: Vinylecho@aol.com Subject: Re: music as non-reality Hello, I am in my 20's and very much appreciate my old Wire albums like "On Returning" on vinyl. The art is great and the vinyl itself still gets me. I know for me at least when I travel to the UK I can still buy current stuff on vinyl. I think that a "perfect" future will be one where everyone will find their niche may it be vinyl, mp3, CD, DAT, or whatever. I disagree with Keith saying future advancements are crap we should preserve our past and embrace advances. Vinyl is important and very much a great document for music and art so it should not be discarded and done with. thanks Julian keith v. wrote): Hello, Music to me must be physical, which is why I prefer vinyl records -- you can actually see the physical process in the reproduction of sounds... this mp3 or whatever garbage is bad for music... The information age is destroying the mystery of wandering into a record store and discovering without previous listening... This is my first message on idealcopy... I prefer the early Wire albums, Dome albums, and early Colin Newman albums... Later, Keith v. _________ Right On! Right On! mij. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:36:08 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: medium , tedium Must stop reading my e-mail while still bleary-eyed after waking up. Could've sworn you typed Medium Medium, & while Hungry, So Angry was a decent little song, I was having a hard time figuring out its relevance to much of anything ... (Oh, I know -- it appeared on the Totally WIREd comp a couple of years ago.) Dan >Subject: medium , tedium > > > >>a thought. every year gets better and better for music as you still have >all the great stuff from the past , to which more and more is added with >each year that passes. i think that's a nice way of looking at it. > >here here! (hear hear?) > >emphatic echo > >and just to raise the point, if you can't play records (including 78's) you >miss out on all the great stuff which no-one has 'deemed nessicary' to >digitize > >David (who is still getting over missing gatefold sleeve art (and) how DO >kids seperate the seeds these days anyways? ;) > > > ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #45 ******************************