From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #44 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, February 24 1999 Volume 02 : Number 044 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ["charles" ] Bruce Gilbert/Ron West "Frequency Variations" ["charles" ] music as non-reality [Keith Harold Vercauteren ] Re: music as non-reality [radareyes@webtv.net] RE: music as non-reality ["Wilson, Chad" ] more on, music as non-reality ["Wilson, Chad" ] objects [Keith Harold Vercauteren ] Re: music as non-reality ["tube disaster" ] Re: ["charles" ] RE: music as non-reality ["Wilson, Chad" ] RE: objects ["Wilson, Chad" ] Re: You have got to be joking. [Craig Grannell ] See the forest through the trees [Eric Nelson ] Re: ["charles" ] Re: You have got to be joking. ["Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" ] the medium is the mess [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: objects ["tube disaster" ] Re: the medium is the mess [Brian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:09:55 -0800 From: "charles" Subject: Re: :>>CD's has been in reach of literally anyone : :Let's see, so you think that's a bad thing? :And you run a label? : :Robert. What happens when physical product isn't required to be a label? When every artist can present his or her music to the world? When the internet is chock full of millions of MP3 files? Music will then be conversation, a newspaper, something very disposable. Listen to it, you don't like it, delete it from your hard drive or Rio. That was my point. Why do we talk about Wire some twenty years after the fact? My point is that there was and is something "special" about the music that carried it through the years. Someone at EMI (Mike Thorne to be specific) decided that it was worthy of commercial release, and it was afforded the opportunity to where it was presented to the World. ("Commercial" or "Popular" is more often than not the answer to longevity - that however, doesn't apply to Wire.) While I was in SF, I waded through the "red tag" bins at Amoeba and came to the conclusion that all that music represented "unwanted" music, while the rest of the store "yellow tags" represented music that people "wanted". Twenty years ago, there was "unwanted" music, but certainly not the numbers that there are today. Is that a bad thing? Yes and no. Does every music need to be heard, let alone released? What does, of course, is subjective, but consider the assumption that "not everything does". The barriers to putting physical product out did prevent music that "nobody wanted" from being released. As these fall, more and more music gets released, ultimately that makes it increasingly difficult for the Consumer to decide on what to spend his or her time with, if even with music at all. charles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:12:02 -0800 From: "charles" Subject: Bruce Gilbert/Ron West "Frequency Variations" Just a quick noet to let everyone know that Bruce Gilbert/Ron West "Frequency Variations" has been release on 12" vinyl by the Sahko label and is available from Wire Mail Order. It's an album of analog electronics from 1974! charles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:43:19 -0800 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: Disposable Music Fair enough... But there is a lot of good music out in mp3 format right now. A lot of bands are choosing mp3 for obvious reasons, its almost free to make an mp3 from any sound source, and you can avoid the middle man, or chose as we did, to have fewer middle men (mp3.com) who can produce and ship CD's from our mp3's for us. What this all does is make it important to have REVIEWS of mp3's so people can sort out the bad from the good. C-had - -----Original Message----- From: charles [mailto:wmo@interserv.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 11:10 AM To: Robert Brammer Cc: Ideal Copy Subject: Re: What happens when physical product isn't required to be a label? When every artist can present his or her music to the world? When the internet is chock full of millions of MP3 files? Music will then be conversation, a newspaper, something very disposable. Listen to it, you don't like it, delete it from your hard drive or Rio. That was my point. charles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:02:48 -0600 (CST) From: Keith Harold Vercauteren Subject: music as non-reality Hello, Music to me must be physical, which is why I prefer vinyl records -- you can actually see the physical process in the reproduction of sounds... this mp3 or whatever garbage is bad for music... The information age is destroying the mystery of wandering into a record store and discovering without previous listening... This is my first message on idealcopy... I prefer the early Wire albums, Dome albums, and early Colin Newman albums... All of Bruce Gilbert's solo work is wonderful... He produces the best current music of all Wire members... Later, Keith v. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:07:35 -0600 (CST) From: radareyes@webtv.net Subject: Re: music as non-reality (keith v. wrote): Hello, Music to me must be physical, which is why I prefer vinyl records -- you can actually see the physical process in the reproduction of sounds... this mp3 or whatever garbage is bad for music... The information age is destroying the mystery of wandering into a record store and discovering without previous listening... This is my first message on idealcopy... I prefer the early Wire albums, Dome albums, and early Colin Newman albums... Later, Keith v. _________ Right On! Right On! mij. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:31:42 -0800 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: RE: music as non-reality Then in essence what you are saying is that the music does not matter, it is the medium on which it is delivered that is the important part? It is not everyone that can make a record, and that fact should not mean that the music is "Unworthy" of being heard. At 27 I have NEVER owned a record player, and right now I don't buy ANY music unless it is mp3 based or an occasional Wire rarity. I respect you nostalgic view of the world before zeros and ones, but I cannot relate, and think perhaps you might be missing a lot of good music in the future... Chad - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Harold Vercauteren [mailto:gorf@csd.uwm.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 1:03 PM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: music as non-reality Hello, Music to me must be physical, which is why I prefer vinyl records -- you can actually see the physical process in the reproduction of sounds... this mp3 or whatever garbage is bad for music... The information age is destroying the mystery of wandering into a record store and discovering without previous listening... This is my first message on idealcopy... I prefer the early Wire albums, Dome albums, and early Colin Newman albums... All of Bruce Gilbert's solo work is wonderful... He produces the best current music of all Wire members... Later, Keith v. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:39:19 -0800 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: more on, music as non-reality One final thought on this subject... If it is mystery you are after, wander on to mp3.com and randomly buy a couple of cd's for 5 bucks each, or randomly download some free songs from some band that NOBODY has every heard of and see how it goes. With a RECORD you know some label somewhere had to give it a thumbs up, with mp3's you can listen to bands that you might like, that otherwise do not fit into a labels market demographic... Also, "this mp3 or whatever garbage is bad for music..." indicates that you have never even heard an mp3, and I am surprised that you are even able to get onto this mailing list since it IS on a computer... :-) Next thing you know you will be sitting on your porch yelling at young whippersnappers to "Get out of my yard!!!"... Chad - to hell with vinyl, to hell with record labels and all the scum that goes along with them... - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Harold Vercauteren [mailto:gorf@csd.uwm.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 1:03 PM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: music as non-reality Hello, Music to me must be physical, which is why I prefer vinyl records -- you can actually see the physical process in the reproduction of sounds... this mp3 or whatever garbage is bad for music... The information age is destroying the mystery of wandering into a record store and discovering without previous listening... This is my first message on idealcopy... I prefer the early Wire albums, Dome albums, and early Colin Newman albums... All of Bruce Gilbert's solo work is wonderful... He produces the best current music of all Wire members... Later, Keith v. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:53:51 -0600 (CST) From: Keith Harold Vercauteren Subject: objects In regards to Chad Wilson's comments: I can see you really like the high-tech end of things... Sorry if I am an old-fashioned 21-year-old! People have released music on their own labels, too, you know... Mp3 only music is a lazy way of doing things... If it or something similar x's-out "physical formats", then recorded music will be of no value... I think! I like to hold the album cover in my hands and listen... My el-cheapo band AluminumKnotEye has released stuff on cassettes... I guess we must be from the stone age... Still, vinyl is king... It lasts long! What happens when the shit hits the fan and all these computers are rendered useless... I'm sure there will still be one record and one phonograph to play it on... The first Wire recording I bought was "154" on vinyl. Go figure. I want to see a Wire recording pressed on the wire format... just kidding. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:56:31 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: music as non-reality At 27 I have NEVER owned a >record player, and right now I don't buy ANY music unless it is mp3 >based or an occasional Wire rarity. > >I respect you nostalgic view of the world before zeros and ones, but I >cannot relate, and think perhaps you might be missing a lot of good >music in the future... > *sigh* Perhaps I'm just a bit tetchy right now, but you may have just placed yourself on the "ignore-all-posts-by-this-person" list. Your first statement makes about as much sense to me as if it had been "At 27 I have NEVER owned a book, and right now I don't procure ANY reading material unless it is online or an occasional Philip K. Dick rarity." Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:09:44 -0800 From: "charles" Subject: Re: :In the 80's the walls were closing in for "unpopular or Original" :music, It was very difficult to get something released! And with Moral :cencors like the PMRC, we could have all ended up listening to :"Cutting-Edge" stuff like Robert Palmer! Now that it's opening up, I'm :not going to damn the technology that allows me more choice, if some :bad releases come through the chutes. I'm going to blame the person :who made the crap! :So, the only thing that makes music diposable is an artists lazy or :derivative attitude towards his work. :Most of The alblums and songs from Wire have lasted because they put :a lot of thought or work into them, not because they were the only cd :on the Art-Rock rack! :To be honest, I would rather sort through a Thousand CD's than let :some fat ass A&R guy with spray on hair tell me what is cutting edge, :now with the ease of which cd's are produced, I can actually have a :chance to hear someone new! :Think about it, do you think a major record label would sign many of :the supposedly great artists of our time, today? Take John Lennon, the :industry today wouldn't touch him with rubber gloves on! Then why did the industry just release a 4CD box set of Lennon's demos etc...? If an artist is special, cutting edge, etc... and they feel that their music should be heard by a wider audience, they will find a way to get it released. That held true then as it does now. Don't give the record industry that much credit. They don't "hold things back", they release what sells. Nearly every record EVER released up until this decade was from some "fat ass A&R" guy's decision.The industry - like it or not - acts as a syphon, just as the Press does, the internet does, this mailing list does. If anything, some of the "best" music being made won't be heard because the Artist doesn't want it released! What makes Wire music special is that Wire were a special combinaiton of talent, of four individuals. As artists, they'd probably be the first to tell you that they were lazy! The more music that gets released makes finding the next Wire that much harder. I'm also not convinced that there is better music being released now that technology has freed thing up. If Wire rolled around, I'd bet they'd be passed by, and not even given a chance. All this just gives us more choice, which isn't necessarily a good thing. In the words of BG, "more is more". charles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:30:40 -0800 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: RE: music as non-reality Whatever, ignore me because I have never owned a record player... Why should you care how I procure my music? We are getting off topic here anyway, with or without a record player, I have been enjoying Wire and its related projects since hearing a TAPE of SnakeDrill in 1987. Sorry if the way I buy or choose to listen to music offends any of you... Sometimes, certain people on this list sound like a bunch of grumpy old people longing for some good old day that may have never been... What we need now is someone to come online and mention that they prefer to listen to music on 78's and think these "records and 8 tracks" are ruining the way people listen to and buy music... And if you need further cause to dislike someone you don't even know, I read about 1 book a year at the very most, and own probably 2 or so books that are not related to video game strategy guides or classic muscle cars... Chad - -----Original Message----- From: tube disaster [mailto:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 3:57 PM To: Ideal Copy Mailing list Subject: Re: music as non-reality At 27 I have NEVER owned a >record player, and right now I don't buy ANY music unless it is mp3 >based or an occasional Wire rarity. > >I respect you nostalgic view of the world before zeros and ones, but I >cannot relate, and think perhaps you might be missing a lot of good >music in the future... > *sigh* Perhaps I'm just a bit tetchy right now, but you may have just placed yourself on the "ignore-all-posts-by-this-person" list. Your first statement makes about as much sense to me as if it had been "At 27 I have NEVER owned a book, and right now I don't procure ANY reading material unless it is online or an occasional Philip K. Dick rarity." Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:33:49 -0800 From: "Wilson, Chad" Subject: RE: objects You have every right to like records... I convert mp3's to redbook audio cd in my bedroom, so I can take them and listen to them at work and in my car where I have no tape or record player. The fact that you like records is fine with me man... It just bugs me that people are so afraid of something that perhaps they never even tried. Hell, with that in mind, anyone want to send me a record player? :-) Chad - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Harold Vercauteren [mailto:gorf@csd.uwm.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 1:54 PM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: objects In regards to Chad Wilson's comments: I can see you really like the high-tech end of things... Sorry if I am an old-fashioned 21-year-old! People have released music on their own labels, too, you know... Mp3 only music is a lazy way of doing things... If it or something similar x's-out "physical formats", then recorded music will be of no value... I think! I like to hold the album cover in my hands and listen... My el-cheapo band AluminumKnotEye has released stuff on cassettes... I guess we must be from the stone age... Still, vinyl is king... It lasts long! What happens when the shit hits the fan and all these computers are rendered useless... I'm sure there will still be one record and one phonograph to play it on... The first Wire recording I bought was "154" on vinyl. Go figure. I want to see a Wire recording pressed on the wire format... just kidding. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:11:53 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: You have got to be joking. - ---charles wrote: >> > What happens when physical product isn't required to be a label? When every > artist can present his or her music to the world? Creative freedom: fucking excellent. Maybe gone will be the days when someone has to appeal to some dead or dying genre or push one's music into a niche or be the mate of some tosspot A&R man in order to produce records. > When the internet is chock > full of millions of MP3 files? Music will then be conversation, a > newspaper, something very disposable. Listen to it, you don't like it, > delete it from your hard drive or Rio. If I don't like a record or CD I dispose of it. Thankfully, that doesn't happen that often because I find out what the stuff is like before I buy it. That is just as easy, if not more so, with MP3 stuff. And record shops are chocked full of shite. It's really no different -except- for the fact that the opportunity for the individual is greater. Sure, there's going to be some crap but then isn't there always? > Why do we talk about Wire some twenty years after the fact? My point is that > there was and is something "special" about the music that carried it through > the years. Someone at EMI (Mike Thorne to be specific) decided that it was > worthy of commercial release, and it was afforded the opportunity to where > it was presented to the World. ("Commercial" or "Popular" is more often than > not the answer to longevity - that however, doesn't apply to Wire.) > Why should someone deem music necessary of commercial release? Surely, it's just a matter of taste and then, probably more so, whether it will fit nicely into a pigeon hole of a label's marketing strategy. Quite frankly Wire were lucky. Without Thorne Wire would have been deemed too bizarre, too different for release by the vast majority of labels, if not all of them. EMI partly signed them up due to messing up with the Pistols and due to a couple of ex-Cambridge guys going "Hey, these guys are great". > Is that a bad thing? Yes and no. Does every music need to be heard, let > alone released? What does, of course, is subjective, but consider the > assumption that "not everything does". The barriers to putting physical > product out did prevent music that "nobody wanted" from being released. As > these fall, more and more music gets released, ultimately that makes it > increasingly difficult for the Consumer to decide on what to spend his or > her time with, if even with music at all. What happens when those very same barriers are preventing music getting out that is bloody amazing - because someone decides no-one wants it. Remember, each "movement" has its beginnings somewhere. Perhaps the potentially most important thing to happen to music -ever- will not be released becuase some A&R people decide, wrongly, that it won't sell. Sure, MP3's, the 'net, and CD-R won't solve this, but it may go some way to helping. Craig. == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:01:46 -0800 From: Eric Nelson Subject: See the forest through the trees What a nutty discussion. Music is music. It really is irrelevant what media it resides on. When I was younger I listened to the radio a lot. Airwaves were the media and it was free. MP3's should be looked at the same way. I have heard some great MP3's and then PURCHASED the CD much like I did with radio songs. After many years I found that 98% of the music played on the radio was CRAP and I began buying fewer and fewer CD's or tapes. I think MP3's will actually INCREASE the demand for music on SOLID media because you will once again be able to sample music, except NOW you can choose the genre and style of music instead of being forced to listen to what the radio gods want you to. Make sense? I now only buy music that I can sample, either at the record/CD store, or by sampling lesser known artists on MP3.com or similar web sites. Hopefully record companies will be smart enough to realize what a useful tool MP3's are in getting samples out to the people to decide if they want to purchase it or not. I think WIRE is awesome and I think media like MP3 will help new artists who are possibly in the same genre or vein as WIRE get music to people like ME who will enjoy it. - -Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:30:51 -0800 From: "charles" Subject: Re: : :Well, my point is that as an "indie" label guy, I would think you :would agree with me that sometimes industry lacks the foresight to :sign interesting or "progressive" acts, but now the expansion of :technology is taking care of all that, allowing bands which might :otherwise remain unreleased, to put out their music. It just makes it all the more difficult. I think most labels in a similar position would agree. This proliferation of product in this decade has made it near impossible to get distribution, to get into record shops, to get paid instead of returns, to get reivewed, etc... There is simply too much product. And I don't think it gives the consumer more choices in and of itself. There's just more of everything. Bypassing the Distributor/Record Store model - through the internet - may be the way out. But that lends itself to the greatest challenge - finding an audience to support itself. But at least that's the only challenge! charles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:47:12 -0500 From: "Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" Subject: Re: You have got to be joking. > ---charles wrote: > >> > > What happens when physical product isn't required to be a label? > When every > > artist can present his or her music to the world? > > Creative freedom: fucking excellent. Maybe gone will be the days when > someone has to appeal to some dead or dying genre or push one's music > into a niche or be the mate of some tosspot A&R man in order to > produce records. The benefit with MP3s is really to the *artist*. It's not exactly "creative freedom", as you put it, though it is somewhat similar. The ability to distribute their work is what is being allowed with MP3s, moreso than if they did not have that ability. There may be a possible benefit to the music consumer if a good band is available only on MP3 (due to record companies thinking they are uncommercial, or if the artist has no interest in getting involved with a record company). However, you still have the problem of getting them heard by the public. Right now, the record company helps with this, with some sort of publicity. Word of mouth may be enough in some cases, but not all. > > When the internet is chock > > full of millions of MP3 files? Music will then be conversation, a > > newspaper, something very disposable. Listen to it, you don't like it, > > delete it from your hard drive or Rio. > > If I don't like a record or CD I dispose of it. Thankfully, that > doesn't happen that often because I find out what the stuff is like > before I buy it. That is just as easy, if not more so, with MP3 > stuff. And record shops are chocked full of shite. It's really no > different -except- for the fact that the opportunity for the > individual is greater. Sure, there's going to be some crap but then > isn't there always? Yeah, and MP3.com is as full of crap as the record store is, if not more so. Yes, you can listen to it before you buy it, but that is really unmaneagable if you have 400 bands you don't know with audio samples you can try. It's not a hell of a lot better than *not* being able to listen to them, in terms of sheer numbers you probably can't try them all. There *is* a benefit to branding via the record label. It makes it easy to automatically assume things about bands you don't know, i.e. there is a certain style/level of quality associated with Harthouse bands. Or course, this doesn't mean that "record labels" have to be the same as they are today -- responsible for producing physical music media -- they could be "virtual labels" with just a web site, but one which is slightly morespecialized/discriminating/whatever than MP3.com. > Quite frankly Wire were lucky. Without Thorne Wire would have been > deemed too bizarre, too different for release by the vast majority of > labels, if not all of them. EMI partly signed them up due to messing > up with the Pistols and due to a couple of ex-Cambridge guys going > "Hey, these guys are great". You still need the two guys who say "this stuff is great". If there are people whose job it is to do that, 24 hours a day, that helps make your musical life and mine more manageable. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:52:44 -0500 From: "Lee S. Kilpatrick (Mr. Breeze)" Subject: Re: You have got to be joking. By the way, how about a couple recommendations of bands you like that are available only through MP3s, or are at least on MP3 and pretty much unknown in the physical record industry? Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:12:17 -0800 From: Brian Subject: Re: Disposable Music Mp3, is fine with me but can you login to server that has what you want, only once have I been able to. MP3.com doesn't have what I want or doesn't care to make easy to find. "Wilson, Chad" wrote: > Fair enough... But there is a lot of good music out in mp3 format right > now. A lot of bands are choosing mp3 for obvious reasons, its almost > free to make an mp3 from any sound source, and you can avoid the middle > man, or chose as we did, to have fewer middle men (mp3.com) who can > produce and ship CD's from our mp3's for us. > > What this all does is make it important to have REVIEWS of mp3's so > people can sort out the bad from the good. > > C-had > > -----Original Message----- > From: charles [mailto:wmo@interserv.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 11:10 AM > To: Robert Brammer > Cc: Ideal Copy > Subject: Re: > > What happens when physical product isn't required to be a label? When > every > artist can present his or her music to the world? When the internet is > chock > full of millions of MP3 files? Music will then be conversation, a > newspaper, something very disposable. Listen to it, you don't like it, > delete it from your hard drive or Rio. That was my point. > > charles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:49:09 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: the medium is the mess I hesitate to wade into a budding technology war ("like hell you do, Jeff! -Miles, Aaron, etc.), but coincidentally the whole online/CD/vinyl debate was brewing on another list I"m on, so I'll mention here too that: The problem w/MP3s is that they don't exactly work well if you're modeming in at 28.8 w/a computer w/low memory. Further, tying music distribution to a venue - computers - that basically necessitate a thousand-dollar investment to keep up w/tech every other year....well, it's a bad idea. And while I'm not the tactile fetishist some of our vinyl fans are, I do enjoy record stores: shopping, looking for stuff, talking to people there, finding something wonderful & unexpected in the used or cutout bins, etc. I suspect they'll have their place (MP3s), but I wouldn't say they're the future. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::we make everything you need, and you need everything we make:: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:05:12 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: objects >You have every right to like records... > >I convert mp3's to redbook audio cd in my bedroom, so I can take them >and listen to them at work and in my car where I have no tape or record >player. The fact that you like records is fine with me man... It just >bugs me that people are so afraid of something that perhaps they never >even tried. Hell, with that in mind, anyone want to send me a record >player? :-) Exactly the point I was trying to make in my overly grouchy post of a few hours ago! Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:42:43 -0800 From: Brian Subject: Re: the medium is the mess Point well taken the real problem with MP3 is the infrastructure does not support it. Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I hesitate to wade into a budding technology war ("like hell you do, > Jeff! -Miles, Aaron, etc.), but coincidentally the whole > online/CD/vinyl debate was brewing on another list I"m on, so I'll mention > here too that: > > The problem w/MP3s is that they don't exactly work well if you're modeming > in at 28.8 w/a computer w/low memory. Further, tying music distribution to > a venue - computers - that basically necessitate a thousand-dollar > investment to keep up w/tech every other year....well, it's a bad idea. > > And while I'm not the tactile fetishist some of our vinyl fans are, I do > enjoy record stores: shopping, looking for stuff, talking to people there, > finding something wonderful & unexpected in the used or cutout bins, etc. > > I suspect they'll have their place (MP3s), but I wouldn't say they're the > future. > > --Jeff > > J e f f r e y N o r m a n > The Architectural Dance Society > www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html > ::we make everything you need, and you need everything we make:: ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #44 ******************************