From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #41 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, February 19 1999 Volume 02 : Number 041 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: some much needed heresy! [paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #40 ["charles" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #40 ["charles" ] Happy Little Wilberforce ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] Re: Disposability ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] Re[2]: Disposability [paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se] re: Disposability ["Jack Steinmann" ] Concepts...Yuck! ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] Emotional Progressssssss ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] Re: Concepts...Yuck! [paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se] re: Emotional Progressssssss ["Jack Steinmann" ] Re: Concepts...Yuck! [Brian ] Re: Concepts...Yuck! ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] Re: Re[2]: Disposability [Vinylecho@aol.com] Re: Concepts...Yuck! [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Chairs Missing [rtc@sirius.com (Robert Cambra)] Re: Concepts...Yuck! ["Mack" ] Re: Disposability ["tube disaster" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:33:14 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: Re: some much needed heresy! > Compared to the things that are happening now Pink Flag is really a pile of dog doo! You geezers who go on about Punk are just as pathetic as I am when I gush about The Smiths! Morrissey and all that stuff only sounds good because at the time I discovered them my personal musical influences were totally different and I was open to those sounds. If I'd heard "The Queen Is Dead" today, I'd probably say it's nice and go back to bopping to Squarepusher. now there's nothing wrong with a good gush now and again. and not too much wrong with the smiths , although the less said about morisseys solo career the better. i think you can't dissociate the music from the time , of course i love the punk era and its as much great memories as for the music itself. but timeless classics are , i'm afraid , timeless classics , and for me pink flag comes into that category. i think the best of the 77 era is one of the true classic times of british "pop" (the other being the mid-60's) and for me it still stands repeated listens. maybe i'm biased , but the 95/96 britpop thing showed how much the influence remains. dog doo? shame on you.i love contemporary stuff too but it doesn't make the past sound worse , maybe the opposite. and who the hell are squarepusher? p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 06:40:35 -0800 From: "charles" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #40 :Context has everything to do with greatness. (or is that the other way :around?) :Some albums transcend context for *some* people. :If 154 were truly "timeless" then I wouldn't have complained about it :sounding "70s-ish" when I first heard it in '92. No? :I have this theory that nothing that humans do can possibly be eternally :valuable... anything that's Art dies eventually. :Of course it only takes 6 months for me to completely change my mind about :these things. We'll see. Right on Ibrahim, destroy your idols and be FREE! c ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 06:36:22 -0800 From: "charles" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #40 :second time around i think they were allegedly digitally re-mastered (I'd like to know if anyone could tell the difference? , i :bought the first set). i think you have to admire emi for managing to make all 3 discs slightly different , nice marketing! i :never bought the 2nd issue , a cheaper way to get the 2 "new" tracks is to buy "on returning" which has o/m 7" , dot dash :Land also 12xu live. good disc to have anyway.jap imports always seem a prize rip-off to me , music for stamp collectors.p :I have a chance at picking up the Japanese cd versions of Chairs and 145, anyone have any thoughts on the differences on :these? I have Behind the Curtain, but did want the long version of "Outdoor Miner" they're hefty in price, so any help would The first issue from EMI wasn't "sanctioned" by Wire, thus the second set was released with Wire's guiding hand. Complete lyrics, the "correct" extra tracks, complete. The Japanese reissues are identical to the second, but also split Behind The Curtain into three and tack them on. Each release has something like 30 tracks. charles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:11:43 -0500 (EST) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: Happy Little Wilberforce On Feb 18, 3:33pm, paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > Subject: Re: some much needed heresy! > > Compared to the things that are happening now Pink Flag is really a pile of dog doo! > You geezers who go on about Punk are just as pathetic as I am when I gush > about The Smiths! Morrissey and all that stuff only sounds good because at the time I discovered them my personal musical influences were totally different and I was open to those sounds. If I'd heard "The Queen Is Dead" today, I'd probably say it's nice and go back to bopping to Squarepusher. > > now there's nothing wrong with a good gush now and again. and not too much wrong with the smiths , although the less said about morisseys solo career the better. i think you can't dissociate the music from the time , of course i love the punk era and its as much great memories as for the music itself. but timeless classics are , i'm afraid , timeless classics , and for me pink flag comes into that category. i think the best of the 77 era is one of the true classic times of british "pop" (the other being the mid-60's) and for me it still stands repeated listens. maybe i'm biased , but the 95/96 britpop thing showed how much the influence remains. dog doo? shame on you.i love contemporary stuff too but it doesn't make the past sound worse , maybe the opposite. > I don't think that new music kills old music according to any rule but it seems to happen all the time. Maybe it's an age thing... my universe still changes every six months. There was a time when I could not stand house rhythms. I any case, me calling PF dog doo isn't that strange... I like music with COLOUR - PF is not varied and never really stood out as cool with me. Now if I called Ideal Copy or IBTABA crap then there'd be reason to be surprised. > and who the hell are squarepusher? Ooh Squarepusher! That's Tom Jenkinson - plays fretless bass and makes the absolutely maddest POP music (as I define it). It's not all drill n bass! You have not lived until you've experienced Squarepusha! If you like Aphex... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:20:56 -0500 (EST) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: Re: Disposability On Feb 17, 7:27pm, tube disaster wrote: > Subject: Re: Disposability > > > > > >> Sure, context is important, but some albums transcend context. "Pink > Flag" > >was timely; "154" is timeless. The Warsaw EP was timely; "Unknown > Pleasures" > >is timeless. Or something. > > > >Some albums transcend context for *some* people. > >If 154 were truly "timeless" then I wouldn't have complained about it > >sounding "70s-ish" when I first heard it in '92. No? > > > Ever considered the possibility that you're ... ah ... you know ... > taste-challenged? It happens. > Umm... well.... probably no more "challenged" than anyone else... certainly not more than nostalgic ex-Punks who, even in 1999, seem to have a lot of time for music that essentially revolves around gestures rather than sounds... and certainly not more than one Mr. Newman... Have you seen lists of his favourite records? Fuckin' crap!!! hahahahaa (demonic laugh) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:46:16 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: Re[2]: Disposability well maybe the clash/pistols were big on "gestures" but a huge number of the better bands of the punk era were very "anti image" and this criticism doesn't really apply. wire hardly made many "gestures" did they , 154 is as music-driven an lp as i can think of. to name a few more ; joy division / subway sect / atv / early cure / this heat / gang of 4 / buzzcocks / magazine / loads more. one or 2 acts went for some "outrage" to break down certain doors , other people then got to use that space to create a lot of great music. think back to what the music scene was a year pre-punk (genesis , yes , elp) and maybe you'll concede that a little bit of gesturing was justified. do you think without the pistols wire would have got to do 3 albums on emi? and what are colin's fave records? pray tell. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Disposability Author: MIME:yu151711@YorkU.CA at INTERNET Date: 18/02/1999 16:22 On Feb 17, 7:27pm, tube disaster wrote: > Subject: Re: Disposability > > > > > >> Sure, context is important, but some albums transcend context. "Pink > Flag" > >was timely; "154" is timeless. The Warsaw EP was timely; "Unknown > Pleasures" > >is timeless. Or something. > > > >Some albums transcend context for *some* people. > >If 154 were truly "timeless" then I wouldn't have complained about it > >sounding "70s-ish" when I first heard it in '92. No? > > > Ever considered the possibility that you're ... ah ... you know ... > taste-challenged? It happens. > Umm... well.... probably no more "challenged" than anyone else... certainly not more than nostalgic ex-Punks who, even in 1999, seem to have a lot of time for music that essentially revolves around gestures rather than sounds... and certainly not more than one Mr. Newman... Have you seen lists of his favourite records? Fuckin' crap!!! hahahahaa (demonic laugh) ------------------------------ Date: 18 Feb 99 10:04:02 -0600 From: "Jack Steinmann" Subject: re: Disposability Reply to: re: Disposability We're entering the Land of Broad Generalizations here. I can't stand false emotion in music -- say, Christopher Cross -- but there are countless performers/artists/whatever who have produced profoundly, believably emotional (and compelling, and... insert your adjective here) music. In the example of Wire, I'm a big fan of "A Bell is a Cup" because it covers a lot of emotional territory, even if the musical edges are somewhat sanded. Jack On 2/17/99, IBRAHIM BOZAI wrote: A lot of times I have problems with music because the emotion just isn't believable. I probably appreciate that Pixies stuff more now than ever. Silliness is something that rarely seems to fail. "Serious" music for me, is almost dead. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:05:05 -0500 (EST) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: Concepts...Yuck! On Feb 18, 4:46pm, paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > Subject: Re[2]: Disposability > well maybe the clash/pistols were big on "gestures" but a huge number of the better bands of the punk era were very "anti image" and this criticism doesn't really apply. wire hardly made many "gestures" did they , 154 is as music-driven an lp as i can think of. to name a few more ; joy division / subway sect / atv / early cure / this heat / gang of 4 / buzzcocks / magazine / loads more. one or 2 acts went for some "outrage" to break down certain doors , other people then got to use that space to create a lot of great music. think back to what the music scene was a year pre-punk (genesis , yes , elp) and maybe you'll concede that a little bit of gesturing was justified. do you think without the pistols wire would have got to do 3 albums on emi? > All of this seems to justify my comment re: context. The best music sounds good despite the concept behind it. Any work that requires a history lesson in order for it to make sense obviously isn't being judged on its own merit. With any kind of audio art the focus is SOUND - that's the reason why we're all tuning in. Everything else is irrelevant. The sounds on PF aren't nearly enough to make it "classic." It's mostly people who experienced the context firsthand that love it so much. Divorced from its place in Punk history, Pink Flag doesn't mean that much. It's a nice laugh but not much more. > and what are colin's fave records? pray tell. > I found the link to some interview that started on the Wire page - i think it might've been Perfect Sound Forever or something like that. I noticed that out of all that stuff there were only two records that I actually own: My Bloody Valentine "Loveless" and LFO "Frequencies." Of course not everything on the lists is crap... a lot of it is just before my time but I was shocked to see Oasis on there! > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Re: Disposability > Author: MIME:yu151711@YorkU.CA at INTERNET > Date: 18/02/1999 16:22 > > > On Feb 17, 7:27pm, tube disaster wrote: > Subject: Re: Disposability > > > > > > > >> Sure, context is important, but some albums transcend context. "Pink > Flag" > > >was timely; "154" is timeless. The Warsaw EP was timely; "Unknown > Pleasures" > > >is timeless. Or something. > > > > > >Some albums transcend context for *some* people. > > >If 154 were truly "timeless" then I wouldn't have complained about it > >sounding "70s-ish" when I first heard it in '92. No? > > > > > Ever considered the possibility that you're ... ah ... you know ... > taste-challenged? It happens. > > Umm... well.... probably no more "challenged" than anyone else... certainly not more than nostalgic ex-Punks who, even in 1999, seem to have a lot of time for music that essentially revolves around gestures rather than sounds... and certainly not more than one Mr. Newman... Have you seen lists of his favourite records? Fuckin' crap!!! hahahahaa > > (demonic laugh) > > >-- End of excerpt from paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:28:50 -0500 (EST) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: Emotional Progressssssss On Feb 18, 10:04am, Jack Steinmann wrote: > Subject: re: Disposability > Reply to: re: Disposability > > We're entering the Land of Broad Generalizations here. I can't stand false emotion in music -- say, Christopher Cross -- but there are countless performers/artists/whatever who have produced profoundly, believably emotional (and compelling, and... insert your adjective here) music. In the example of Wire, I'm a big fan of "A Bell is a Cup" because it covers a lot of emotional territory, even if the musical edges are somewhat sanded. That's another one I appreciate more now that I'm older. It was quite different compared to the U2 and Smiths stuff I was so madly into when I first heard it - it's not like they set themselves up as a "give us yer money and we'll make you cry" type of group - much much drier and any prettiness in the work emerged much more gracefully. I like the general mood of A Bell - very cold on the surface but underneath it veers from all things "pretty" to things regarded as "kick ass". And I always thought the drums sounded like filing cabinets. > > > Jack > > > On 2/17/99, IBRAHIM BOZAI wrote: > A lot of times I have problems with music because the emotion just isn't > believable. I probably appreciate that Pixies stuff more now than ever. > Silliness is something that rarely seems to fail. "Serious" music for me, is > almost dead. >-- End of excerpt from Jack Steinmann ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:40:21 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: Re: Concepts...Yuck! er , not really. i was saying pf is a classic and that the context just adds to the appeal even more. you just can't say "everything but the sound is irrelevant" , the whole appeal of rock n roll is that it is multi-dimensional ; no other art form can make you want to dance , storm the barricades , fuck , whatever in the way it can. but its a total package , the look of a lot of acts is a part of it too , as are the politics and the "theory". i think if you strip it down to just music you'd lose so much , but in reality that can't be done so we'll just have to carry on as previous........ a thought ; if frank black had been as pretty as kurt cobain , would the pixies have achieved what nirvana did?p On Feb 18, 4:46pm, paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > Subject: Re[2]: Disposability > well maybe the clash/pistols were big on "gestures" but a huge number of the better bands of the punk era were very "anti image" and this criticism doesn't really apply. wire hardly made many "gestures" did they , 154 is as music-driven an lp as i can think of. to name a few more ; joy division / subway sect / atv / early cure / this heat / gang of 4 / buzzcocks / magazine / loads more. one or 2 acts went for some "outrage" to break down certain doors , other people then got to use that space to create a lot of great music. think back to what the music scene was a year pre-punk (genesis , yes , elp) and maybe you'll concede that a little bit of gesturing was justified. do you think without the pistols wire would have got to do 3 albums on emi? > All of this seems to justify my comment re: context. The best music sounds good despite the concept behind it. Any work that requires a history lesson in order for it to make sense obviously isn't being judged on its own merit. With any kind of audio art the focus is SOUND - that's the reason why we're all tuning in. Everything else is irrelevant. The sounds on PF aren't nearly enough to make it "classic." ------------------------------ Date: 18 Feb 99 10:56:12 -0600 From: "Jack Steinmann" Subject: re: Emotional Progressssssss Reply to: re: Emotional Progressssssss Well, they ARE filing cabinets. (See the cover.) On 2/18/99, IBRAHIM BOZAI wrote: And I always thought the drums sounded like filing cabinets. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:59:32 -0800 From: Brian Subject: Re: Concepts...Yuck! Why would the Pixies want to be anything like nirvana, that would be a step or three down. paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > er , not really. i was saying pf is a classic and that the context just adds to the appeal even more. you just can't say "everything but the sound is irrelevant" , the whole appeal of rock n roll is that it is multi-dimensional ; no other art form can make you want to dance , storm the barricades , fuck , whatever in the way it can. but its a total package , the look of a lot of acts is a part of it too , as are the politics and the "theory". i think if you strip it down to just music you'd lose so much , but in reality that can't be done so we'll just have to carry on as previous........ > > a thought ; if frank black had been as pretty as kurt cobain , would the pixies have achieved what nirvana did?p > > On Feb 18, 4:46pm, paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > Subject: Re[2]: Disposability > > well maybe the clash/pistols were big on "gestures" but a huge number of the better bands of the punk era were very "anti image" and this criticism doesn't really apply. wire hardly made many "gestures" did they , 154 is as music-driven an lp as i can think of. to name a few more ; joy division / subway sect / atv / early cure / this heat / gang of 4 / buzzcocks / magazine / loads more. one or 2 acts went for some "outrage" to break down certain doors , other people then got to use that space to create a lot of great music. think back to what the music scene was a year pre-punk (genesis , yes , elp) and maybe you'll concede that a little bit of gesturing was justified. do you think without the pistols wire would have got to do 3 albums on emi? > > > All of this seems to justify my comment re: context. > > The best music sounds good despite the concept behind it. Any work that requires a history lesson in order for it to make sense obviously isn't being judged on its own merit. With any kind of audio art the focus is SOUND - that's the reason why we're all tuning in. Everything else is irrelevant. The sounds on PF aren't nearly enough to make it "classic." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:43:09 -0500 (EST) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: Re: Concepts...Yuck! On Feb 18, 5:40pm, paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > Subject: Re: Concepts...Yuck! > er , not really. i was saying pf is a classic and that the context just adds to the appeal even more. you just can't say "everything but the sound is irrelevant" Of course you can! The sound is why you're there! the whole appeal of rock n roll is that it is multi-dimensional ; no other art form can make you want to dance , storm the barricades , fuck , whatever in the way it can. but its a total package , the look of a lot of acts is a part of it too , as are the politics and the "theory". i think if you strip it down to just music you'd lose so much , but in reality that can't be done so we'll just have to carry on as previous........ > Rock n roll? When did that become a relevant term? Richard James' music makes me wanna dance and all that but if you think carefully about that stuff you'll realize that they manage to do all that without necessarily resorting to extramusical gimmicks. (Think about those No-U-Turn records without writing on them.) The term "Rock and Roll" describes a method of marketing music in a way that makes it accessible to the casual record buyer - this is how the mainstream makes its money, by grabbing the attention of consumers who could just as easily take their money and buy a video game or a copy of Titanic or whatever. When you strip music down to the sound you're left with THE POINT - sans the intellectual clutter of "theories." > a thought ; if frank black had been as pretty as kurt cobain , would the pixies have achieved what nirvana did?p The fact that the Pixies didn't sell 20 million had to do with marketing. There's a world of difference between the marketing muscle of Geffen and 4AD. Few of us even heard about Nirvana before they signed to DGC. The actual music of the Pixies was probably much more viable than Nirvana. Looks don't matter nearly as much as we think. Look at Thom Yorke! He's not Brad Pitt! It's about timing and the resources to take advantage of it. > > > On Feb 18, 4:46pm, paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > Subject: Re[2]: Disposability > > well maybe the clash/pistols were big on "gestures" but a huge number of the better bands of the punk era were very "anti image" and this criticism doesn't really apply. wire hardly made many "gestures" did they , 154 is as music-driven an lp as i can think of. to name a few more ; joy division / subway sect / atv / early cure / this heat / gang of 4 / buzzcocks / magazine / loads more. one or 2 acts went for some "outrage" to break down certain doors , other people then got to use that space to create a lot of great music. think back to what the music scene was a year pre-punk (genesis , yes , elp) and maybe you'll concede that a little bit of gesturing was justified. do you think without the pistols wire would have got to do 3 albums on emi? > > > All of this seems to justify my comment re: context. > > The best music sounds good despite the concept behind it. Any work that requires a history lesson in order for it to make sense obviously isn't being judged on its own merit. With any kind of audio art the focus is SOUND - that's the reason why we're all tuning in. Everything else is irrelevant. The sounds on PF aren't nearly enough to make it "classic." >-- End of excerpt from paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:12:16 EST From: Vinylecho@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Disposability In a message dated 99-02-18 10:51:22 EST, paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se writes: << well maybe the clash/pistols were big on "gestures" but a huge number of the better bands of the punk era were very "anti image" and this criticism doesn't really apply. Wire in many ways screamed "anti-image" except for maybe a few photos where one of them may have slightly (and I mean slightly) spiky hair. That is about it. Their initial albums "Pink Flag" and "Chairs Missing" were punk/new wave experiments. What other major label band around then played songs as short and fast as Wire. Not many! wire hardly made many "gestures" did they , 154 is as music-driven an lp as i can think of. to name a few more ; joy division / subway sect / atv / early cure / this heat / gang of 4 / buzzcocks / magazine / loads more. I mean these bands for maybe except the Cure who changed into this goth cabaret act were all about the music. I think there are alot of people who still think in traditional rock terms. one or 2 acts went for some "outrage" to break down certain doors , other people then got to use that space to create a lot of great music. think back to what the music scene was a year pre-punk (genesis , yes , elp) and maybe you'll concede that a little bit of gesturing was justified. do you think without the pistols wire would have got to do 3 albums on emi? Exactly! My words to a tee. I know Richard Hell complains about being punk first but before the Pistols none of these bands would have been given a chance. These bands like Wire, Gang of Four, Subway Sect changed lots of people. Ian Mackaye of Minor Threat/Fugazi I have read looked at the English punk rock thing because in the States (at the time around 1979) all he found was disco and the Knack. Hardly fast angry punk rock to draw inspiration. and what are colin's fave records? pray tell. >> Please list them!!!!!!!!!! thanks Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:51:56 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Concepts...Yuck! On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > a thought ; if frank black had been as pretty as kurt cobain , would the > pixies have achieved what nirvana did?p Now, if Kim Deal had been as pretty as Krist Novoselic, what then? - --Jeff, who actually thought Kim looked pretty good until the heroin took over J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/reviews.html ::clip clop clip clop clip clop clip bang clop clip clop clip clop:: __Amish drive-by shooting__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:59:16 -0800 From: rtc@sirius.com (Robert Cambra) Subject: Chairs Missing Hi All, Wed, 17 Feb 1999 IBRAHIM BOZAISubject wrote: Didn't Marcel Duchamps (a Wire influence) have that disposable attitude?- - -- that anything more than 20 years old *should* die? Yes, he said (and I think have a recording of him saying this) that a work of art has a life span of about 100 years, and that after its meaningful life is probably over so you might as well toss it out. Out of context an artwork become merely a relic, maybe interesting, but dead. The old Wire is still alive for an old fart like me. "Chairs Missing" is one of my favorite albums of all time. It doesn't sound like anything else that came out at the time, or before or since. This one will have a long life. It doesn't date the way the work of other bands of the era, who put on a proletarian pose and ranted about politics, quickly did. It's a very unusual, weird record--Dada punk music hall?--I'm still not sure. I AM THE FLY, I FEEL MYSTERIOUS TODAY, IN THE NURSERY--these are good for a lifetime! I picked up the Japanese "Chairs Missing" because at the time it was the only place I knew to get the long version of OUTDOOR MINER on cd. I wasn't looking for better sound but on first listen I was so wowed by how great it sounded--open, clear and strong--that it was an easy decision to spend the money to pick up the other two Japanese discs. They sound that good, at least to me. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:23:20 -0600 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: Concepts...Yuck! >--Jeff, who actually thought Kim looked pretty good until the heroin took >over wrong deal sis and those who think nirvana was a product of the 'star maker machine' missed the fact that thousands of suburban whiteboys actually didn't need any help falling for a real metal band with catchy songs and mopey lyrics kurt realized it too - and was not quite equiped to deal with the dichotomy d ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:04:36 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Disposability >On Feb 17, 7:27pm, tube disaster wrote: >> Subject: Re: Disposability >> >> >> > >> >> Sure, context is important, but some albums transcend context. "Pink >> Flag" >> >was timely; "154" is timeless. The Warsaw EP was timely; "Unknown >> Pleasures" >> >is timeless. Or something. >> > >> >Some albums transcend context for *some* people. >> >If 154 were truly "timeless" then I wouldn't have complained about it >> >sounding "70s-ish" when I first heard it in '92. No? >> > >> Ever considered the possibility that you're ... ah ... you know ... >> taste-challenged? It happens. >> >Umm... well.... probably no more "challenged" than anyone else... >certainly not more than nostalgic ex-Punks who, even in 1999, seem to have a >lot of time for music that essentially revolves around gestures rather than >sounds... "Gestures rather than sounds"? Well, that Toni Basil video for Mickey involved a lot of cheerleading-type stuff, if memory serves, but beyond that I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Do you? Nostalgic ex-punk or not, I *listen* to my old records & new CDs. If I were into gestures over sounds, I'd value the Lemon Kittens far more than I do the stuff Danielle Dax did afterward ... but I'm not, so I don't. Dan ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #41 ******************************