From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #40 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, February 18 1999 Volume 02 : Number 040 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 [RobertJazz@aol.com] Re: Japanese CM / 154 [Craig Grannell ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 [Creaig Dunton ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 [Craig Grannell ] Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 [paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se] Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 [paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se] Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 ["Mack" ] Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 [Andrew N Westmeyer ] Re: 90% of ALL music SUCKS. ["Mats Hammerman" ] Re Japanese Lyric Transcriptions ["Mack" ] [Fwd: idealcopy-digest V2 #39] [Brian ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 [Brian ] some much needed heresy! ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] RE: some much needed heresy! ["Jack Steinmann" ] Disposability ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] Re: Disposability ["tube disaster" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:09:34 EST From: RobertJazz@aol.com Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 Hello all, I have a chance at picking up the Japanese cd versions of Chairs and 145, anyone have any thoughts on the differences on these? I have Behind the Curtain, but did want the long version of "Outdoor Miner" they're hefty in price, so any help would be grateful... Thanks! - - Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:24:45 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: Japanese CM / 154 Don't bother getting the Japanese versions. The extra tracks on these releases are actually on Behind the Curtain. If you want the long version of Outdoor Miner then you can get it on the most recent EMI CD reissue of Chairs Missing (1995; also includes Question of Degree and Former Airline). It'd be much cheaper too ... Craig. - ---RobertJazz@aol.com wrote: > I have a chance at picking up the Japanese cd versions of Chairs and 145, > anyone have any thoughts on the differences on these? I have Behind the > Curtain, but did want the long version of "Outdoor Miner" they're hefty in > price, so any help would be grateful... > == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:59:42 -0500 From: Creaig Dunton Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 RobertJazz@aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > > I have a chance at picking up the Japanese cd versions of Chairs and 145, > anyone have any thoughts on the differences on these? I have Behind the > Curtain, but did want the long version of "Outdoor Miner" they're hefty in > price, so any help would be grateful... > > Thanks! > - Robert From what I've heard, the long version of "Outdoor Miner" is also on the _On Returning_ compilation, along with "Dot Dash" and a live version of "12XU". Correct me if I'm wrong though, because I don't actually have it (though I wish I did, since I've got the US issues of all the Harvest era discs, and really want to hear the long "Outdoor Miner", but can't justify a whole purchase for those few tracks ;) ). - -- - -Creaig Dunton/Thurston Jenkins http://2fmp.hypermart.net <- 2nd Floor Mafia Productions http://fpc.hypermart.net <- False Prophet Campaign Zine http://2fmp.hypermart.net/mypage <- My Page ICQ: 5417270 AOL: Creaig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:36:09 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 Excerpts from mail: 17-Feb-99 Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 by Creaig Dunton@sprynet.co > From what I've heard, the long version of "Outdoor Miner" is also on > the _On Returning_ compilation, along with "Dot Dash" and a live > version of "12XU". You heard correctly. "On Returning" was one of the first Wire items I ever got. It's like "The A List" for Wire version 1.0. The live version of "12XU" is from the "Live at the Roxy" LP (the first commercial release of Wire). The other track on that LP, "Lowdown", is not on "On Returning". As far as I know, that version of "Lowdown" has never been released on CD. (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "He'd got ooperzootics on the brain." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:59:36 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 - --Andrew N Westmeyer wrote: > > The live version of "12XU" is from the "Live at the Roxy" LP (the first > commercial release of Wire). The other track on that LP, "Lowdown", is > not on "On Returning". As far as I know, that version of "Lowdown" has > never been released on CD. > Except, of course, on the CD reissue of the "Live at the Roxy" LP!! C == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:11:58 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 you can get live at the roxy on a uk cd , i've got one. i think its on overground records.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 Author: SE:qwerty@CMU.EDU at INTERNET Date: 17/02/1999 17:40 Excerpts from mail: 17-Feb-99 Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 by Creaig DuntonÉsprynet.co > From what I've heard, the long version of "Outdoor Miner" is also on > the _On Returning_ compilation, along with "Dot Dash" and a live > version of "12XU". You heard correctly. "On Returning" was one of the first Wire items I ever got. It's like "The A List" for Wire version 1.0. The live version of "12XU" is from the "Live at the Roxy" LP (the first commercial release of Wire). The other track on that LP, "Lowdown", is not on "On Returning". As far as I know, that version of "Lowdown" has never been released on CD. (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwertyÉcmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/üqwerty "He'd got ooperzootics on the brain." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:11:58 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 i can't imagine they're any different from the emi re-issues that got put out in the uk , those were just standard price. they did it twice with different bonus tracks each time , it went as follows first set pink flag (+ options r) c/missing (+,go ahead , question of degree , former airline) 154 (+the 4 track EP) second issue p/flag (+options r ,dot dash) c/missing (+ outdoor miner 7" , q.o.d , f/airline) 154 (+ go ahead + the 4tr EP) second time around i think they were allegedly digitally re-mastered (I'd like to know if anyone could tell the difference? , i bought the first set). i think you have to admire emi for managing to make all 3 discs slightly different , nice marketing! i never bought the 2nd issue , a cheaper way to get the 2 "new" tracks is to buy "on returning" which has o/m 7" , dot dash and also 12xu live. good disc to have anyway.jap imports always seem a prize rip-off to me , music for stamp collectors.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 Author: MIME:RobertJazz@aol.com at INTERNET Date: 17/02/1999 15:22 Hello all, I have a chance at picking up the Japanese cd versions of Chairs and 145, anyone have any thoughts on the differences on these? I have Behind the Curtain, but did want the long version of "Outdoor Miner" they're hefty in price, so any help would be grateful... Thanks! - - Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:16:42 -0600 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 >i can't imagine they're any different from the emi re-issues that got put out in the uk , those were just standard price. they did it twice with different bonus tracks each time , it went as follows ah - but they are - i think andrew has the track listings, but essentially they spread 'behind the curtain' over the 3 first albums they were quite reasonable here in the states at tower ($18) when released plus you get an OBI and some liner notes which when translated, i am sure are hilarious too bad there are no lyric transcriptions (one of my favorite features of japanese pressings) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:40:35 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 Excerpts from mail: 17-Feb-99 Re: Re[2]: idealcopy-digest.. by "Mack"@geocities.com > too bad there are no lyric transcriptions (one of my favorite > features of japanese pressings) Well, you can always get the lyrics from the web page! Someone scanned the BTC lyrics from the Japanese CDs for me. Some of the lyrics were either incomplete or just totally wrong! (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "He'd got ooperzootics on the brain." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:50:36 PST From: "Mats Hammerman" Subject: Re: 90% of ALL music SUCKS. First of all - Thanks for all the interesting stuff about Punilux. It really stired up some great memories. Back from the vinylvalult I found that the only album I had was L A so I got to order some records now. I found one single - Hold me (never mould me)/Golden corsets on Red Rino Record with the recordnumber Red (!) 33 from 1983. Not really good. Anyway the gutarplayer on Puppet life single was Red Helmet. Oh. Enough of that. Then someone accused Pink Flag. I had to say that regardless of the fact that the sound sounds strange today it still have a simplicity, with a hauting, disturbing element that give it something more that many of the other albums that came the same year from bands coming from the pub-rock-tradition(Vibrators, Stranglers etc). The only band that the members of my band could all agree was great was Wire and also the only two songs we ever covered was fram Pink Flag. So dont say anything about Pink Flag. Its still one the most important albums ever (even though 154 is the best !) OK Mats,The Swede >On Feb 16, 1:40pm, Jack Steinmann wrote: >> They sure did. Has anyone heard 12XU? >> >Pink Flag was probably quite interesting in its time. >I can listen to it and think: "hmmm, interesting concept" but can I listen to >it and say: "ooh, wicked stuff!"? No. The sounds are dull and it's not >nearly as funny as "...I Care Because You Do." > >Chairs Missing is much better. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:00:02 -0600 From: "Mack" Subject: Re Japanese Lyric Transcriptions > too bad there are no lyric transcriptions (one of my favorite > features of japanese pressings) Some of the lyrics were either incomplete or just totally wrong! EXACTLY !! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:44:09 -0800 From: Brian Subject: [Fwd: idealcopy-digest V2 #39] Robert, As I have the first three releases in that format i don't have any complaints. Chairs tracks 19-28 are demos that Mike Thorne hasn't gotten to yet. 154 tracks 14-24 are more of the same. RobertJazz@aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > > I have a chance at picking up the Japanese cd versions of Chairs and 145, > anyone have any thoughts on the differences on these? I have Behind the > Curtain, but did want the long version of "Outdoor Miner" they're hefty in > price, so any help would be grateful... > > Thanks! > - Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:07:03 -0800 From: Brian Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #39 Just for the record. The extra tracks on the Jap. records are as follows. Pink Flag 22. Dot Dash 23. Options R 24. Love ain't Polite 25. Oh no not So 26. It's the Motive 27. Practice makes Perfect 28. Sand in My Joints. 29. Stablemate 30. I feel Mysterious Today 31. Underwater Experiences 32. Mary is a Dyke 33. Too True 34. Just Don't Care 35. TV 36. New York City 37. After Midnight 38. Pink Flag Chairs Missing 17. A Question of Degree 18. Former Airline 19. Dot Dash 20. Options R 21. From the Nursery 22. Finistaire 23. No Romans 24. Another the letter 25. 40 Versions 26. Blessed State 27. A touching Display 28. Once is Enough 154 14. Song One 15. Get Down (part 1&11) 16. Let's Panic Later 17. Small Electric Piece 18. Go Ahead 19. Stepping off too Quick 20. Indirect Inquiries 21. Map Ref 41 N 93 W 22. A question Of Degree 23. Two People in A Room 24. Former Airline Yes all digitally remastered. Mack wrote: > >i can't imagine they're any different from the emi re-issues that got put > out in the uk , those were just standard price. they did it twice with > different bonus tracks each time , it went as follows > > ah - but they are - i think andrew has the track listings, but essentially > they spread 'behind the curtain' over the 3 first albums > > they were quite reasonable here in the states at tower ($18) when released > > plus you get an OBI and some liner notes which when translated, i am sure > are hilarious > > too bad there are no lyric transcriptions (one of my favorite features of > japanese pressings) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:58:04 -0500 (EST) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: some much needed heresy! On Feb 17, 11:50am, Mats Hammerman wrote: > Subject: Re: 90% of ALL music SUCKS. > First of all - Thanks for all the interesting stuff about Punilux. It > really stired up some great memories. Back from the vinylvalult I found > that the only album I had was L A so I got to order some records now. I > found one single - Hold me (never mould me)/Golden corsets on Red Rino > Record with the recordnumber Red (!) 33 from 1983. Not really good. > Anyway the gutarplayer on Puppet life single was Red Helmet. Oh. Enough > of that. > > Then someone accused Pink Flag. I had to say that regardless of the fact > that the sound sounds strange today it still have a simplicity, with a > hauting, disturbing element that give it something more that many of the > other albums that came the same year from bands coming from the > pub-rock-tradition(Vibrators, Stranglers etc). The only band that the > members of my band could all agree was great was Wire and also the only > two songs we ever covered was fram Pink Flag. So dont say anything > about Pink Flag. Its still one the most important albums ever (even > though 154 is the best !) > OK > (taking my gloves off...) ;> Pink Flag is only one of the most important albums *ever* to people who were around at the time to appreciate how weird it was in that particular musical climate. Most people who got into music ten years later probably can't appreciate it because, like a lot of things, it was special compared to the other things happening at the time. Compared to the things that are happening now Pink Flag is really a pile of dog doo! You geezers who go on about Punk are just as pathetic as I am when I gush about The Smiths! Morrissey and all that stuff only sounds good because at the time I discovered them my personal musical influences were totally different and I was open to those sounds. If I'd heard "The Queen Is Dead" today, I'd probably say it's nice and go back to bopping to Squarepusher. Context has everything to do with greatness. (or is that the other way around?) (arms crossed) > Mats,The Swede > > >On Feb 16, 1:40pm, Jack Steinmann wrote: > >> They sure did. Has anyone heard 12XU? > >> > >Pink Flag was probably quite interesting in its time. > >I can listen to it and think: "hmmm, interesting concept" but can I > listen to > >it and say: "ooh, wicked stuff!"? No. The sounds are dull and it's > not > >nearly as funny as "...I Care Because You Do." > > > >Chairs Missing is much better. > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >-- End of excerpt from Mats Hammerman ------------------------------ Date: 17 Feb 99 17:19:32 -0600 From: "Jack Steinmann" Subject: RE: some much needed heresy! Reply to: RE: some much needed heresy! Sure, context is important, but some albums transcend context. "Pink Flag" was timely; "154" is timeless. The Warsaw EP was timely; "Unknown Pleasures" is timeless. Or something. Jack P.S. "Meat is Murder" is the Smiths album that stands the test of time for me. The only thing missing is the shock of hearing "The Headmaster's Ritual" for the first time. Jack On 2/17/99, IBRAHIM BOZAI wrote: You geezers who go on about Punk are just as pathetic as I am when I gush about The Smiths! Morrissey and all that stuff only sounds good because at the time I discovered them my personal musical influences were totally different and I was open to those sounds. If I'd heard "The Queen Is Dead" today, I'd probably say it's nice and go back to bopping to Squarepusher. Context has everything to do with greatness. (or is that the other way around?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:33:53 -0500 (EST) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: Disposability > Sure, context is important, but some albums transcend context. "Pink Flag" was timely; "154" is timeless. The Warsaw EP was timely; "Unknown Pleasures" is timeless. Or something. Some albums transcend context for *some* people. If 154 were truly "timeless" then I wouldn't have complained about it sounding "70s-ish" when I first heard it in '92. No? I have this theory that nothing that humans do can possibly be eternally valuable... anything that's Art dies eventually. Didn't Marcel Duchamps (a Wire influence) have that disposable attitude? - -- that anything more than 20 years old *should* die? (this is where all you art history kids jump in with some wisdom...) > P.S. "Meat is Murder" is the Smiths album that stands the test of time for me. The only thing missing is the shock of hearing "The Headmaster's Ritual" for the first time. "Strangeways Here We Come" is my favourite because it's so funny! A lot of the other stuff only sounds good when you're a depressed teenager! A lot of times I have problems with music because the emotion just isn't believable. I probably appreciate that Pixies stuff more now than ever. Silliness is something that rarely seems to fail. "Serious" music for me, is almost dead. It seems that the only emotions that are believable now are either extreme coldness (Panasonic) or extreme silliness (Aphex). Apart from Autechre I can't think of too many that survive in between those two extremes. Of course it only takes 6 months for me to completely change my mind about these things. We'll see. (hands in pockets) ibrahim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:27:15 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Disposability > >> Sure, context is important, but some albums transcend context. "Pink Flag" >was timely; "154" is timeless. The Warsaw EP was timely; "Unknown Pleasures" >is timeless. Or something. > >Some albums transcend context for *some* people. >If 154 were truly "timeless" then I wouldn't have complained about it >sounding "70s-ish" when I first heard it in '92. No? > Ever considered the possibility that you're ... ah ... you know ... taste-challenged? It happens. Dan ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #40 ******************************