From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #35 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, February 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 035 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: PIL; Boomtown Rats [Max Schmid ] Re: turkeys ["Mack" ] PiL [was Damned/PIL/Wire Covers] ["Miles Goosens" ] re: PiL ["Jack Steinmann" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:39:10 -0500 From: Max Schmid Subject: Re: PIL; Boomtown Rats At 04:30 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se >Subject: Re: Damned/PIL/Wire Covers > >One band that has been overlooked from the late 70's postpunk scene is PIL. <<<>>i think the stuff up until wobble left (first 3 albums) is incredible , first rate stuff. then they just turned into a terrible rock band getting worse and worse with each release. the last 3 or 4 are so dull its untrue. Maybe I just like terrible rock bands. I think the generic "Album" (or "Cassette" or maybe even "CD") is great from first note to last. The "Live in Tokyo" is also a winner. As usual, I came to this band long after the beginning and worked both forward and backward as they continued. It did go downhill after the generic album, but I'm not crazy about a lot of the earliest stuff either. >From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se >Subject: oh no please no > >well , after the "success" of my 10 key 77/78 albuum list (thanks to you both) i feel it is now appropriate to list my ten least essential punk/new wave acts of the era. so here goes , the top ten turkeys >3. boomtown rats??? >sorry to our american friends that this lot are all those i had to suffer living in the uk at the time. I admit I don't know most of the bands on this list, although I may have to seek out Punilux after some of the other comments. But The Boomtown Rats, IMHO, delivered some powerful ROCK in their middle years. I was always surprised to see them listed as punk/new wave, but here again, I didn't hear the first releases, and didn't think much of them when I did. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:42:28 -0800 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: turkeys there are really tooooo many turkeys to nemtion but you forgot A Flock of Seagulls and Ministry d ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:22:53 -0000 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: PiL [was Damned/PIL/Wire Covers] Paul Rabjohn says of PiL: > albums on scratchy vinyl so i may well invest. i > think the stuff up until wobble left (first 3 > albums) is incredible , first rate stuff. then they > just turned into a terrible rock band getting worse > and worse with each release. the last 3 or 4 are so > dull its untrue. lydon stands or falls on the > musicians he's working with and since wobble/levine > he's lacked worthy collaborators. a real shame > because when he links up for occasional one-offs > with people like leftfield and afrika bambaata you > sense he could have achieved so much more.p Perhaps I don't have the proper hatred of "terrible rock" to be on the list (or run it!); while I like the first three PiL albums lots, my favorites are the mid-'80s duo of ALBUM (or CASSETTE, or COMPACT DISC -- you know, the generic cover) and HAPPY?. Granted, these two albums are more accessible and conventional than METAL BOX/SECOND EDITION or FLOWERS OF ROMANCE (hey, it's a short list of things that are less accessible than FLOWERS), but there's something about letting propulsive rhythms and actual hooks into the mix that makes Lydon's vocals all the more compelling for me. Normally I'd attribute slagging off of these records to the prejudice against electronic music that we often see displayed with regard to '80s Wire, but since Robert favorably mentions the Bambaata and Leftfield collaborations, which are nothing if not electronic and danceable, I'm curious to hear more about why these tracks work for him, but the aforementioned PiL albums don't. I'll agree that the PiL albums since HAPPY? (9 and THAT WHAT IS NOT, plus Lydon's solo album) are fairly unmemorable, though entertaining enough when actually playing, and certainly better than 90% of the stuff out there. (Special kudos to Lu Edmonds, who provided the humongous guitar solos on HAPPY? as well as on Shriekback's unbeatable OIL AND GOLD. Anyone know what became of him?) later, listowner Miles - --- /====================================================================\ | Miles Goosens outdoorminer@mindspring.com | | http://www.rsteviemoore.com outdoorminer@zdnetmail.com | | http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer | | | | "Why everything has to get in the way all the time I don't know." | | -- Janet Ingraham Dwyer | \====================================================================/ Free web-based email, anytime, anywhere! ZDNet Mail - http://www.zdnetmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:27:44 -0000 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: Talk about rip off On Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:09:32 Creaig Dunton wrote: >probably never will :) The Mike Watt track was pretty bad too...."The 15th" >sung by someone who sounded to me like a drunken redneck lumberjack is just >wrong in some way ;) Hey -- I resemble that remark! later, drunken redneck listowner Miles - --- /====================================================================\ | Miles Goosens outdoorminer@mindspring.com | | http://www.rsteviemoore.com outdoorminer@zdnetmail.com | | http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer | | | | "Why everything has to get in the way all the time I don't know." | | -- Janet Ingraham Dwyer | \====================================================================/ Free web-based email, anytime, anywhere! ZDNet Mail - http://www.zdnetmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 99 14:57:19 -0600 From: "Jack Steinmann" Subject: re: PiL Reply to: re: PiL "Metal Box" is a great album, but "Album" is what I throw on the turntable when I get nostalgic for PiL. It's heavy metal done properly. Jack On 2/12/99, Miles Goosens wrote: Perhaps I don't have the proper hatred of "terrible rock" to be on the list (or run it!); while I like the first three PiL albums lots, my favorites are the mid-'80s duo of ALBUM (or CASSETTE, or COMPACT DISC -- you know, the generic cover) and HAPPY?. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #35 ******************************