From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #26 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, February 4 1999 Volume 02 : Number 026 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ultimate punk collection ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: punk rock tv [aq613@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Sergey A. Kazachenko)] RE: Re[2]: ultimate punk collection ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: punk rock tv [Brian ] Re: ultimate punk collection ["tube disaster" ] Techno? ["IBRAHIM BOZAI" ] Re: Re[2]: ultimate punk collection [Aaron Mandel ] Re: anti-rock tv ["M. Major, international megastar" ] Re: punk rock tv ["M. Major, international megastar" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:58:43 -0000 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: Re: ultimate punk collection There are some glaring omissions from your list! I have most of what you have so far included but you need to add these: Crossing the Red Sea with The Adverts (an absolute classic, shame they turned crap after that album); Any of the early Fall albums (up to the point where Marc 'Lard' Riley left the band); Entertainment by The Gang of Four; Thirst by Clock DVA. I know some of these aren't strictly PUNK, but what is? If you want to be strict, then most of your list could be thrown out! You would then be left with just the likes of Crass and Discharge (both superb, but not ones I often play). Of course, the greatest PUNK record of all time has to be the Part Time Punks EP by TV Personalities. Yes, yes, I know this isn't an album, but... Speaking of the TV Personalities. Does anyone have ANY videos of them? I have one track on a compilation video and am desparate for more. Are there any fans out there? I need to talk about them / get more info. I'm 40 next year and am toying with the idea of trying to book them for my birthday party. That would be the ultimate! Would I get them for £500? Paul K W ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:16:41 -0500 (EST) From: aq613@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Sergey A. Kazachenko) Subject: Re: punk rock tv >well , in case any sad old punks are interested , i see in my newspaper that vh1 are showing the final sex pistols gig (winterland 78) tonight at about midnight. Could someone living in UK tape it for us unfortunate USA residents? VH1 USA would NEVER ever show Sex Pistols. - -- Byvajce zdarovy, zhyvice bagata... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:34:16 -0000 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: RE: Re[2]: ultimate punk collection I've got that album, but mine has just got the title painted on the sleeve in blue, and the name of the band in purple felt-tip pen. It is worth about £40. I too saw the TV Personalities once. They were just pissed and out for a good time. I've no problem with that. Much more fun than standing around watching three old blokes dressed in black suits!!! As for 77/78, what about some of the other stuff coming out of the USA? Such as The Heartbreakers (L.A.M.F.) and Richard Hell and the Void-Oids? Paul KW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:55:12 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: Re[4]: ultimate punk collection oh god not richard "i wore a t-shirt with a safety pin in it once therefore i invented punk rock" hell. i hoped i'd heard the last of him! johnny t had his moments but i think you can do a lot better. i'd go for television or t/heads from that era.p ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Re[2]: ultimate punk collection Author: MIME:P.Wilson@bury.gov.uk at INTERNET Date: 03/02/1999 12:36 I've got that album, but mine has just got the title painted on the sleeve in blue, and the name of the band in purple felt-tip pen. It is worth about £40. I too saw the TV Personalities once. They were just pissed and out for a good time. I've no problem with that. Much more fun than standing around watching three old blokes dressed in black suits!!! As for 77/78, what about some of the other stuff coming out of the USA? Such as The Heartbreakers (L.A.M.F.) and Richard Hell and the Void-Oids? Paul KW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:19:27 -0800 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: Re[999]: ultimate punk collection off topic still, but i cannot believe that no one has mentioned the New York Dolls (and personal favorites the Anti-Nowhere League ;) d ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:19:06 -0800 From: Brian Subject: Re: punk rock tv Cheesus Chrysler, not the old what is what isn't punk rock debate again. Hey at least there is no pushing or shoving going on. Craig Grannell wrote: > paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > > > > > > 1. pistols / bollocks > > 2. the clash > > 3. buzzcocks ; another music 4. wire ; pink flag > > 5. subway sect ; we oppose all rock n roll > > 6. atv ; the image has cracked > > 7. slits; peel sessions & in the beginning > > 8. x ray spex ; germ free adolescence > > 9. siouxsie; peel sessions > > 10. ramones mania > > > > any additions? i doubt it. paul > > > > Swell Maps: A Trip to Marineville > Stranglers: Rattus Norvegicus > DAF: Die Kleinen Und Die Bosen > Die Krupps: Metal Maschinen Musik > > Okay, so maybe the last two are a litle tenuous :) > > C. > > == > ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- > www: > SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk > Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html > ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- > "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" > --------------------------------------------------------- > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:24:34 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: ultimate punk collection >>There are some glaring omissions from your list! I have most of what you have so far included but you need to add these: Crossing the Red Sea with The Adverts (an absolute classic, shame they turned crap after that album); Any of the early Fall albums (up to the point where Marc 'Lard' Riley left the band);<< Well, *I'm* apparently the idiot who unknowingly cross-posted his response to the original post to the punk77 list, where it's taken on a life of its own, but FWIW, I quite agree with you -- here's that response from yesterday ... >>A good start, but ... Wire -- Pink Flag; Behind the Curtain Adverts -- Crossing the Red Sea Fall -- Live at the Witch Trials; Early Fall Saints -- (I'm) Stranded; Eternally Yours Radio Birdman -- Radios Appear Avengers -- s/t Dils -- s/t Vibrators -- Pure Mania Stranglers -- Rattus Norvegicus, No More Heroes Pere Ubu -- Datapanik in Year Zero Eater -- The Album Undoubtedly others as well (listing Eater, whom I like a lot, always touches off protests), but I've only just woke up.<< I later amended that to include Can't Stand the Rezillos as well. Otherwise ... >>Entertainment by The Gang of Four; Thirst by Clock DVA. I know some of these aren't strictly PUNK, but what is? If you want to be strict, then most of your list could be thrown out! You would then be left with just the likes of Crass and Discharge (both superb, but not ones I often play).<< I left out the Go4 & Clock DVA (5 Minutes has gone on innumerable mix tapes of mine) because I perceived the original list to be pretty much limited to "first-generation" bands. That (ir)rationale applies to Crass as well, though I've always regarded them as having made electrifying singles but tedious albums. >>Of course, the greatest PUNK record of all time has to be the Part Time Punks EP by TV Personalities. Yes, yes, I know this isn't an album, but...<< But And Don't the Kids Just Love It *is* an album. And one of my all-time faves. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:33:27 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Re[2]: ultimate punk collection >>I've got that album, but mine has just got the title painted on the sleeve in blue, and the name of the band in purple felt-tip pen. It is worth about £40. << Which album is this? I couldn't find an obvious reference in the original post ... Stupidly, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:50:10 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew N Westmeyer Subject: Re: Re[2]: ultimate punk collection I saw the Damned last year and thought it was pathetic. They had more personality than any of the local acts, but "Neat Neat Neat" and "Love Song" just aren't as cool when sung by middle-aged punk rockers. Anyhow, in hopes of bringing this back to Wire somehow... One of the big hangups I have with electronic music is that it seems that the composers don't perform it live as often. Before last year's trip to Germany, Colin hadn't toured since 1988. Bruce and Graham do an occassional one-off, but only rarely in the States. It's the same thing with other groups as well. Maybe the market isn't large enough for touring to be economically viable? (A)ndrew Westmeyer qwerty@cmu.edu www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty "Haven't you heard? Sometimes flying saucers don't make a noise of any kind." -Ed Wood ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:07:10 -0500 (EST) From: "IBRAHIM BOZAI" Subject: Techno? On Feb 3, 1:50pm, Andrew N Westmeyer wrote: > Subject: Re: Re[2]: ultimate punk collection > I saw the Damned last year and thought it was pathetic. They had more > personality than any of the local acts, but "Neat Neat Neat" and "Love > Song" just aren't as cool when sung by middle-aged punk rockers. > > Anyhow, in hopes of bringing this back to Wire somehow... > > One of the big hangups I have with electronic music is that it seems > that the composers don't perform it live as often. Before last year's > trip to Germany, Colin hadn't toured since 1988. Bruce and Graham do an > occassional one-off, but only rarely in the States. It's the same thing > with other groups as well. Maybe the market isn't large enough for > touring to be economically viable? > > (A)ndrew Westmeyer > qwerty@cmu.edu > www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty > > "Haven't you heard? Sometimes flying saucers don't make a noise > of any kind." -Ed Wood >-- End of excerpt from Andrew N Westmeyer I find it a bit weird that people talk specifically about a thing called "electronic music" --- all recorded music is electronic! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Re[2]: ultimate punk collection On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Andrew N Westmeyer wrote: > Bruce and Graham do an occassional one-off, but only rarely in the > States. It's the same thing with other groups as well. Maybe the > market isn't large enough for touring to be economically viable? in london (just visited for a week) it seems like it must be... half the record shops we went into turned out to be electronic-only, and when we went to see Bruce Gilbert as part of some party called Rude Mechanic, the place was packed full. but who knows? a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:52:22 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: live techno acts - ---Andrew N Westmeyer wrote: > One of the big hangups I have with electronic music is that it seems > that the composers don't perform it live as often. A lot of this is down to costs. In my fairly limited experience of live gigging it is a hell of a lot easier, quicker and cheaper to set up a band with the "traditional" line up than it is to start messing around with synths, tapes, computers, sequencers, etc. Also, the starting costs are cheaper. Mind you, there are some decent live techno acts although some of them really take the piss by bunging on a DAT and prancing about on stage (Banco de Gaia anyone???) :) > Before last year's > trip to Germany, Colin hadn't toured since 1988. Bruce and Graham do an > occassional one-off, but only rarely in the States. It's the same thing > with other groups as well. Maybe the market isn't large enough for > touring to be economically viable? > That's due to the sales of those artists. The Prodigy on the other hand manage to pack out any stadium they choose to play in, at least they do in Europe. C. == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:39:05 -0700 (MST) From: "M. Major, international megastar" Subject: Re: anti-rock tv On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Sergey A. Kazachenko wrote: > VH1 USA would NEVER ever show Sex Pistols. > > > -- > Byvajce zdarovy, zhyvice bagata... > I've heard rumors, however, that they've got a program in production with John Lydon called Rotten Television, or summat. "Oh, thanks VH1, but you're not throwing enough presents!" I'm sure you'll find mention at this ( http://www.publicimageltd.com/ ) rather crap PIL site. Sincerely, Mike That's all you get... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:36:57 EST From: W1RE154@aol.com Subject: Millenium Bug??? Hi Folks! (My first contribution.) How come we're all pissing our pants about the so called millenium bug this late in the day? When Pere Ubu warned us about "Datapanik In The Year Zero." about twenty-odd years ago?? I have'nt actually heard it but I do remember the title. Also saw them support the original Gang of Four. Does anyone actually know if it is about the Y2K problem? Raymond ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:00:31 EST From: Vinylecho@aol.com Subject: Re: punk rock tv 1. pistols / bollocks 2. the clash 3. buzzcocks ; another music 4. wire ; pink flag 5. subway sect ; we oppose all rock n roll 6. atv ; the image has cracked 7. slits; peel sessions & in the beginning 8. x ray spex ; germ free adolescence 9. siouxsie; peel sessions 10. ramones mania any additions? i doubt it. paul Hello, I like your list except for maybe two. Being an American I feel horrible to say this but the Ramones just don't cut it. I mean most American punk sucked except for the newer bands like Minor Threat and others that came in the 1980's long after the first generation of punk. I would replace Siouxsie and the Ramones with X-Ray Spex and Crass. It is weird being on this list because you would think that new American punk bands don't listen to the old stuff like Wire and stuff but they do. I live in Washington D.C. where the punk scene is based around the angular minimalistic influences of Wire and Gang of Four. I heard Ian Mackaye of Fugazi/Minor Threat is a huge Wire and Gof4 fan as well as other local bands. Does anyone else keep up with there local punk scenes? Anyways See ya Bye ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:33:27 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: Millenium Bug??? Ummm ... That was merely the name of a singles comp (& later the box set), rather than a song, I believe. And I assume it was a play on the old after-the-holocaust sf flick Panic in Year Zero. Dan >Hi Folks! (My first contribution.) How come we're all pissing our pants about >the so called millenium bug this late in the day? When Pere Ubu warned us >about "Datapanik In The Year Zero." about twenty-odd years ago?? I have'nt >actually heard it but I do remember the title. Also saw them support the >original Gang of Four. Does anyone actually know if it is about the Y2K >problem? > >Raymond > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:37:46 -0700 (MST) From: "M. Major, international megastar" Subject: Re: punk rock tv > [snip: punk list!] > > I like your list except for maybe two. Being an American I feel horrible to > say this but the Ramones just don't cut it. I mean most American punk sucked > except for the newer bands like Minor Threat and others that came in the > 1980's long after the first generation of punk. CON-CUR!!! As another American, the only American punks I ever bothered with were Dead Kennedys. Naturally, there are bound to be thousands I'm just now forgetting about which I'll be forced later to admit quite liking a lot. bleeaaaarrrggg!!!!! Mike That's all you get... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:04:28 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: punk rock tv >> >[snip: punk list!] >> > >> I like your list except for maybe two. Being an American I feel horrible to >> say this but the Ramones just don't cut it. I mean most American punk sucked >> except for the newer bands like Minor Threat and others that came in the >> 1980's long after the first generation of punk. > >CON-CUR!!! As another American, the only American >punks I ever bothered with were Dead Kennedys. > >Naturally, there are bound to be thousands I'm >just now forgetting about which I'll be forced >later to admit quite liking a lot. > I've taken something very close to that position elsewhere, but it wasn't *that* bad. The sad fact is, with a very few exceptions (the Dead Boys, the Rubber City Rebels, Pere Ubu, obviously the NYC contingent), the best US bands never got label deals, esp. on the West Coast (except for the Dickies) ... whereas virtually any UK band with a spikey haircut seemed assured of at least a couple of albums. California bands like the Avengers, Dils, Screamers, Controllers, Negative Trend, Skulls, Eyes et al. were making music as vital as the best of the UK bands (with the exception, of course, of Wire!), but none of 'em ever had an album till the Avengers s/t circa '82, 3 or 4 years after they'd broken up. At best they had a couple of singles or a couple of comp appearances; at worst (Screamers) they never appeared in vinyl form at all. Dan ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #26 ******************************