From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #12 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, January 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 012 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Adder's Tale? [Chester Ward ] radio zzzzzzzzz [paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se] Re: elasticated (never). [Craig Grannell ] snap that elastic [paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se] Re: Re: My North American Radio Rant! [Max Schmid ] Re: -ping- [Craig Grannell ] WMO and other stuff [Robert Brammer ] Re: WMO and other stuff [Craig Grannell ] re: re: WMO and other stuff ["Jack Steinmann" ] Re: -ping- ["Mack" ] Alone with the Lambs or the Silence of the Publisher ["Mack" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #11 ["aargh@erols.com" ] Re: -ping.pong- plagiarisation ["M. Major, international megastar" ] Re: Another the money [Craig Grannell ] Re: Wire on the radio ["Trevor Dutton" ] Re: Another the money ["Steve Jackson" ] Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #11 [RobertJazz@aol.com] Re: Wire on the radio ["Mack" ] Re: radio zzzzzzzzz ["tube disaster" ] Internet radio. [Mike Edwards ] Re[2]: snap that elastic [paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:32:22 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Ward Subject: Adder's Tale? The one I had was title-less... But it was on a BASF & definitely pre 92 hence Chad-less. My awe of Colin Newman & Bruce Gilbert was only ever surpassed by the dual-guitar interplay of Guy (the terrified one) Kyser & Roger (he could drink more beer) Kunkel, who blew my former guit-idol X2sphynxses of Verlaine & Lloyd right outta the water....and I thought the 2Xaxe was done with Pink Flag in 77!! I never sought a foil for guit-snatchin2X, and with good reason...few can do it. And I live in a place where Ritchie Blackmore is still considered avant-garde, except amongst the flag-wavers of above meaningless title, to whom Snakefinger means an anal technique which is a mere wank fantasy, and let's not even mention the appendages on Trout Mask Replica.....whoah...I can hear their daddies' coffins shiftin' now......so my luck at finding a guit-a-deux (I'll stop making up shitass 76 pseudo-Creem words like that now) was, as my grannnie used to say, slim as pappie's shim, and that ain't sayin' a worst o' him. Yakk. Someone tell my nurse I'm not fit for crank anymore. I'm serious....her name is Kristin and she's at 801.328.1260 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:57:31 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: radio zzzzzzzzz well i'm glad my original mail on radio got some response. i'll add a few more comments. it sounds like us radio maybe isn't so bad , i found some good stations in big cities (san francisco/san diego/pittsburgh/toronto , don't ask me what they were called) but away from there it seemed like endless white classic rock and not much else. i had 3 weeks in the deep south last year and its really hard to find a station playing anything later than about 1979 (and i'm talking foreigner not 154 , in case you wondered) in the uk its the opposite problem , most stations play either current chart stuff or mor. whereas (big generalisation coming up) the us chart "scene" at present seems to be bland rock acts , in the uk its all dire pop stuff aimed at ten year old kids. i would not like to say which is worse , i hate both. uk daytime radio is , frankly, shite and nightime tries harder but struggles. 98 was not a good year for indie/alternative stuff here and we have a post-britpop malaise. i know some bands were crap (hi there sleeper/echobelly/embrace etc etc) but in 96/97 you had some great stuff like elastica/blur/pulp getting big airplay. that's history now , if you've never heard boyzone/billie/911/damage/steps then you are lucky people indeed. i always think wire did get their number one album in the end , it just had elastica on the cover. you get there ecventually! i wonder how much money wire got after the publishers sued elastica for the 3-girl rhumba / i am the fly "sampling" on their first 2 big label singles? wonder if elastica will ever release anything again? (do you all know the rumours behind the delay?) will it be on swim or wmo? rollin along.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:23:53 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: elasticated (never). > 98 was not a good year for indie/alternative stuff here [uk] and we have a post-britpop malaise. Basically the problem is in what people and the media consider they are listening to. Until the end of the 70s / start of the 80s indie more or less meant indie. However, with majors buying these small labels what was (and is) percieved as indie is now mainstream. Therefore the general public often assume they are listening to leftfield / indie stuff whereas they are actually listening to bland pop dressed up as indie. Also, mags no longer bother with the actual current underground as they claim to be writing about indie scene when, in fact, they're writing about Oasis and other media darlings. >i know some bands were crap (hi there >sleeper/echobelly/embrace etc etc) but in 96/97 you had some great stuff like elastica/blur/pulp getting Elastica??!?! Urg. I hardly think a band which cannot write their own songs can be described as great (influence is one thing but copying something [read: ripping off] is neither funny, witty or post-modern). In fact, I heard their recent gigs were laughable save for two tracks that survived from their old days: Three Gril Rhumba and No More Heroes. At least, I think that's what they're calles ... >i always think wire did get their number one album in the end , it just had elastica on the cover. No. Wire had -nothing- to do with that release and it was, quite frankly, an insult to them to rip them off without so much as crediting them for the tracks. The 20% settlement was also laughable. Speaking of which ... > > i wonder how much money wire got after the publishers sued elastica for the 3-girl rhumba / i am the fly "sampling" on their first 2 big label singles? I assume nothing. From what I can gather their publishers got 20% of the royalties for Connection (Stranglers got 40% for Waking Up). No other tracks were found to be guilty ... even though they were. >wonder if elastica will ever release anything again? (do you all know the rumours behind the delay?) will it be on swim or wmo? No I don't. They are working on a new release but it's going to be dire (the delay is due to them finding it difficult to write decent songs - this is actually true. Also, at least one band member has left). A saving grace may have been the presence of Mark E. Smith on two tracks singing with his P.A. (until JF decided to overdub the vox with her own). If Colin ever released an Elastica album on Swim~ I'd assume his sanity was no longer in residence, and anyway, Swim~ doesn't do reissues!! Later, Craig. == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:12:52 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: snap that elastic oooh craig you're so bitchy! but seriously , i do like elastica and i think they took some old ideas and re-worked them in an interesting way. a lot of "kids" got to hear those (excellent) ideas who would never have got to hear wire , then they start to look at the influences and it goes full circle. i know i've got into a lot of things that way. i think "rip off" is a bit strong , so much of what we hear is heavily based on the past , its what you bring to it that makes it interesting. if , like oasis , you add nothing then you're wasting your time. but , for me and a lot of my cronies , the elastica lp was well worth having. naughty rumours. well , you know justine used to share a bed with brett (suede) anderson , then left him for damon blur. hence the first suede album is entirely about that (eg damon is the animal lover!) as is "never here" off the elastica lp. now the dreadful rumour is that damon actually wrote the tunes on the elastica lp as he was in his "cheeky cockney chappie" phase and couldn't put punky stuff out with blur. then blur got punky themselves and justine starts hanging around with brett , and bizarrely elastica can't come up with tunes any more. i'm sure the new elastica lp will be an original masterpiece to kill off this type of dreadful rumour for good. ............and i'd have thought 20% of the publishing for "connection" was a big pile of cash! i thought they'd got done for line up/i am the fly as well. keep happy,p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:22:29 -0500 From: Max Schmid Subject: Re: Re: My North American Radio Rant! At 12:43 AM 1/12/99 -0500, Michael Flaherty wrote: > >In the late 70s KFAI, a small radio station in Minneapolis, use to play >Wire regularly--sometimes entire 20-30 minute sets. This was done simply >because one the DJs at the time was (is) a big fan: me. The last time I heard WIRE on the radio was about 4 hours ago - I played it! I have featured at least one tune a week on my 3:30 - 6 AM program, Mass Backwards since getting on this list. This morning it was "Tailor Made" from WIR - The First Letter. Other recent selections have been Illuminated/Boiling Boy, Surgeon's Girl, one or the other version of A Serious of Snakes every week in December, Ahead, etc. A friend of mine has been playing Steeleye Span nearly every week on his show for the last twenty years, so maybe I'll follow suit with Wire. Lately I haven't had as much time for music on the show, so Wire has been most of what I play, along with a weekly airing of The new Offspring version of "Feelings" (I'm still not sick of this one!). I've been listening to WIR The First Letter a lot lately and it's growing on me. Anyone know what that grumbling, nearly incoherent passage is that starts "Naked Whooping and Such-like"? I ran it by my Joyce scholar, but that isn't the source. Speaking of which, I've been searching for the source of a voice sample in my opening theme since I first heard it in 1989 (Telescope Bowmen - "Hoffy's Dream"): Voice One: "Let me pray with you" Old man yelling: "If you are on your way to heaven, and I am on my way to hell, what is it to you - LEAVE ME ALONE!" Anyone??? Max Schmid - Producer - WBAI-FM, NYC GOLDEN AGE OF RADIO and MASS BACKWARDS http://www.oldtimeradio.com Jean Shepherd Catalog: New Address! http://www.advanix.net/~jsadur/shepcat.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 05:57:00 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: -ping- - ---Max Schmid wrote: > Anyone know what that grumbling, nearly incoherent passage > is that starts "Naked Whooping and Such-like"? If you mean the words then read the inlay (or go to Andrew's page). If you mean the person, it's Claude Bessey. - ---paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se wrote: > >[RE: The Elastic Underpants Band] i think "rip off" is a bit strong , so much of what we hear is heavily based on the past , its what you bring to it that makes it interesting. Not for Connection & Waking up. When someone actually plays the CHORDS of the original track and tries to pass them off as their own work then I think it's a rip off. I'm fine with influences; LFO's first album, for example, borrows from Kraftwerk, KLF, et al, but they didn't simply nick tunes and bung new lyrics over them. > now the dreadful rumour is that damon actually wrote the tunes on the elastica lp as he was in his "cheeky cockney chappie" phase and couldn't put punky stuff out with blur. Hmm. I actually think Blur are a really annoying band in that every LP has four or five bloody amazing tracks which are then padded with pop shite. If Damon really did write the Elastica LP (which I doubt) then he needs a good slap. Actually, a mate of mine is good friends with the Elastica bassist and she reckoned they wrote their own stuff, for what that's worth :) (Obviously, with the exception of the stuff they nicked). >I'm sure the new elastica lp will be an original >masterpiece to kill off this type of dreadful rumour >for good. > In which case I hope it's a joke when the last quote I heard from JF was something like "Oh, yes, on this album we've 'borrowed' the riff from Lowdown and even some stuff off Chairs Missing." > ............and i'd have thought 20% of the publishing for "connection" was a big pile of cash! i thought they'd got done for line up/i am the fly as well. But remember the band probably didn't see a penny of it!!! Also, bearing in mind current lawsuits (ie: Verve having to give up 100% of the rights to U.F.) I think the settlement was dire. I guess the publishing was split in two (ie 50% lyrics / music) and therefore it was decided 40% of Connection was related to 3 Girl. Stranglers got off better (probably 'cos they're more well known). C. == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:41:37 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Brammer Subject: WMO and other stuff Just had to make me contribute something relevant. To start off with, I've ordered more WMO releases than anyone else living at this address..so that gives me the right to complain. WMO says that The Wire Video would not generate enough interest to justify it's release....but then how does Dugga Dugga Dugga, Alone on Penguin Island or Whore? The Wire Video should be able to generate more interest than those three. In my big opinion, WMO should concentrate on releases from Wire and its members, that's it. How's Vox Pop Coming? <<90% didn't respond to the second discas anegative response to the CD? >> Yes, I didn't respond because the CD looked boring, but Coatings was worth it. Here's an idea for a WMO release. Andrew sent me a tape of unreleased/rare Wire stuff a while back, and one of the songs was a rehersal/writing session for 40 Versions, they struggled their way through it finally coming up with a finished song. It was pretty interesting to hear them write a song! How about a Collection of Wire Rehersals/Writing sessions, even including a few where they fall on their face, just for the sake of proving they are human? Lastly, I've heard Alone on the radio once, but that's it! I don't understand why Wire never made any money, if Radiohead can, then it should be possible for Wire! In a perfect world Wire should tour with Radiohead, if only for the exposure. I think people who listen to Radiohead would actually like Wire. p.s. I ordered an Enigma mail order catalog and had my letter returned with a "forwarding address expired" stamp. Has Enigma gone under? Robert. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:57:06 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: WMO and other stuff - ---Robert Brammer wrote: > WMO says that The Wire Video would not generate enough interest to > justify it's release....but then how does Dugga Dugga Dugga, Alone on > Penguin Island or Whore? The Wire Video should be able to generate > more interest than those three. > In my big opinion, WMO should concentrate on releases from Wire and > its members, that's it. Penguin Island is one of, if not, the best of the WMO releases and that in itself justifies the release (and remember Dome had more than a slight influence on the album). As for Dugga and Whore, most bands have had tributes so why not Wire? And of variable quality though those albums were they were still better than most tributes. > Here's an idea for a WMO release. Andrew sent me a tape of > unreleased/rare Wire stuff a while back, and one of the songs was a > rehersal/writing session for 40 Versions, they struggled their way > through it finally coming up with a finished song. It was pretty > interesting to hear them write a song! How about a Collection of Wire > Rehersals/Writing sessions, even including a few where they fall on > their face, just for the sake of proving they are human? > > Maybe that does or doesn't sound good in theory, depending on your personal viewpoint but it's somewhat different having to -pay- for a release like that. Personally I would never part with money to hear Wire farting about in a studio. Behind the Curtain is the closest to that particular area that I would go. C. == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jan 99 11:02:10 -0600 From: "Jack Steinmann" Subject: re: re: WMO and other stuff Reply to: re: re: WMO and other stuff Wasn't "Alone" licensed for use in "The Silence of the Lambs"? There had to have been some income to Colin there. On 1/12/99, Robert Brammer wrote: I've heard Alone on the radio once, but that's it! I don't understand why Wire never made any money, if Radiohead can, then it should be possible for Wire! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:07:33 -0600 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: -ping- >Not for Connection & Waking up. When someone actually plays the >CHORDS of the original track and tries to pass them off as their own >work then I think it's a rip off ... If every duplication of a 1-4-5 chord progression were a ripoff, then ALL popular music is theft ... hmmmmmmm ;) D ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:15:12 -0600 From: "Mack" Subject: Alone with the Lambs or the Silence of the Publisher >Wasn't "Alone" licensed for use in "The Silence of the Lambs"? There had to have been some income to Colin there. Depends who owns the publishing. He could have seen a pretty penny or nothing. A friend of mine had 3 seconds of a song excerpted in Child's Play 2 and said the royalty check was the largest he had seen in his professional career. And he had 2 albums on Sire in the 80s'. On the other hand, another friend had half a song excerpted in Scream and did not see a penny becouse they sold the publishing in advance to get a recording budget. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:22:33 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: -pong- - ---Mack wrote: > > >Not for Connection & Waking up. When someone actually plays the > >CHORDS of the original track and tries to pass them off as their own > >work then I think it's a rip off > ... > If every duplication of a 1-4-5 chord progression were a ripoff, then ALL > popular music is theft > # An old argument that holds little truck with me. Granted, some music may trigger some sort of recognition due to similarity to another piece, but when that similarity is so close that the pieces in quesiton are interchangable that's when problems occur, at least for me. C. == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:14:22 -0500 From: "aargh@erols.com" Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #11 > Well, at least things are down to civil! Thank you Keef for your mammoth > size post on how you would improve WMO! (Which reminds me of a John Cage > quote). It also seems that you have the vinyl copy of Turns & Strokes > which IS a bootleg, as it was meant to be! This is interesting news! There's a story behind this .... Why is the offer for the vinyl in your (American) catalog? > Realize that they're really isn't a lot of choices on what to release and > what not to. For instance, the Band is against releasing any live > recordings from the 80's. That's that. This is incredibly sad to me because without live tapes floating around incredible things like the elongated Drill get lost, and it makes the nature of their work that much more temporary than it already is. Have they given you any specific reason why they take that position? Does this apply to all the side projects? Will I ever get to see more of what Dome were like live? > Defend Coatings? - I don't think > anyone has to - but should I take the fact that 90% didn't respond to the > second disc as a negative response to the CD? Don't think that was it. > It's much deeper than that. Some of Wire's general "unknownness" may have been Restless's crappy distribution, at least in the States. During the late 80's when it looked as if Wire might actually become very popular what with the television appearances and all and Bell Is A Cup on the radio, you couldn't find their albums for love or money in the shops, and it was always the same story when I ordered them ... backordered. It was simply impossible to find. It's only when they went bust that I managed to get proper copies of everything from that time period. > > I will end with this: WMO was started as a fan club, as a way to release > things that were previously documented (and recorded), on compact disc for > all to enjoy - even though no one knew what "all" meant. It's a finite > list of things to release and it's done with implicit approval from Wire > and we're almost done. Do you intend to do any repressings or is it once they're gone that's that until someone else decides to do the same thing? > But there really aren't that many Wire fans out > there. We really got the "all" wrong. It's not WMO's place to "make" more > Wire fans. That is something for Bruce Gilbert, Colin Newman and Graham > Lewis to do. I think very few, including Wire, realise this. Oh I don't know ... word gets out any way it can. In a way I'm thankful for Wire's unknownness because I can do a few things in my own music like them and giggle at being called "original." Such is the nature of being an influential band, I suppose. > > Keef Buying those CD's and thanks for your support, > charles/wmo Nice pun. :-) (and yes it's my real name) Sincerely, Keef ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:40:48 -0700 From: "M. Major, international megastar" Subject: Re: -ping.pong- plagiarisation *!*!*! Craig skrev: >>> Not for Connection & Waking up. When someone actually plays the >>> CHORDS of the original track and tries to pass them off as their own >>> work then I think it's a rip off *!*! Mack skrev: >> If every duplication of a 1-4-5 chord progression were a ripoff, >> then ALL popular music is theft *! Craig skrev: > An old argument that holds little truck with me. Granted, some music > may trigger some sort of recognition due to similarity to another > piece, but when that similarity is so close that the pieces in > quesiton are interchangable that's when problems occur, at least for > me. Note: The following is completely plagiarized from Mr David Kettle and his short essay on the subject, 'Plagiarism' "[This thread is really daft. All rock 'n' roll sounds like all other rock 'n' roll, if you're talking about riffs. That's the whole point of it. The syntax/grammar/lexicon is of necessity limited to a very few rhythms/figures that approximate sexual congress and/or ritual movement. The very idea of plagiarism in such a condensed form misses the point entirely... There is never any plagiarism in r'n'r. The form is self plagiarising. You pick up a guitar and you've *already* plagiarised someone. That's why it's so fucking tedious when (for instance) Mark Smith bangs on about people owing their careers to him. NO-ONE has a monopoly on the collective subconcious currents of the last 40 years. It's a sub-cultural repository from which anyone may borrow. The only onus on the borrower is to make it good. What monumental arrogance and hubris for a preening ninny like (for instance) Mick Jagger to take anyone to court for plagiarism armed with a hypocritical presumption of "ownership". PAH!]" Nevertheless, Elastica are still a load of thieves and rip-off-ists. But so are Wire, and so are every group now working. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:45:25 -0000 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: snap that elastic According to the NME, Elastica are no more. Whether any more recorded material surfaces will remain to be seen. Despite "Line Up" and "Connection", I always thought Menswear were far more guilty of ripping off Wire. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:12:17 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: Another the money - ---Steve Jackson wrote: > Despite "Line Up" and "Connection", I always thought Menswear were far more > guilty of ripping off Wire. > Even sadder: Menswear didn't actually claim to be Wire fans (if memory recalls they weren't even that familiar with them) but they were big Elastica fans, hence the similarity! Wire, twice removed!! Okay, my real reason for this post (about the millionth one today - that's what happens when you work on-line for your job ...) is that I wondered whether I was quoting bullshit figures earlier. So here's part of a message I got from Colin Newman on the subject of royalties: " Elastica royalties - You are right about the percentage [20%] (which is then split 60/40 with publishers Carlin) - I'd say it amounted to a couple of thousand quid for me so far which when you consider Budwiser paid some monstrous fee (1/2 a million dollars or some such) to use my riff in their olympics ads is pretty piss poor. Silence of the Lambs - No such luck, me & graham got about 500 quid each! " So there you have it. And this emphasizes my earlier point about rip-offs, the wrong people can get the credit -and- the financial reward. (And I've heard -all- the clever / post modern / arty / arty-farty / legal shpeal arguments, including all those posted to this list, before)! Remember: if everything had already been done no-one would do anything. Or something like that ... C. == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:12:29 +0000 From: "Trevor Dutton" Subject: Re: Wire on the radio If it's not too late to come in on this, I mentioned a while ago hearing a clip of Wire on a Tigers baseball broadcast in Detroit last September (something off ABIACUIIS, I forget which). Prior to that the last time was on WDET, the NPR station at Wayne State University in Detroit - Martin Bandike played Ear Drum Buzz. He has a wonderfully eclectic playlist, how nice to be unconstrained by commerciality! Having said that I can't recall hearing ANY Wire on BBC Radio (tho' obviously Peel plays some from time to time) which seems to be far from unconstrained in play list - again, except from Peel. When I lived in Detroit I used to listen to 89X but find their play list so predictable and unadventurous for a supposed modern rock station, it's all sub-heavy metal these days, very dull. My source for new music is the internet these days, tracking leads from bands I know and love (I am currently travelling from Stereolab past Tortoise, Labradford, Mouse on Mars if anyone is interested!) Cheers Trev - -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x- Trevor Dutton, Associate Ove Arup & Partners ATG Coventry t +44 (0) 1203 856036, f +44 (0) 1203 856240 trevor.dutton@arup.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:41:18 -0000 From: "Steve Jackson" Subject: Re: Another the money Craig said... >Even sadder: Menswear didn't actually claim to be Wire fans (if >memory recalls they weren't even that familiar with them) but they >were big Elastica fans, hence the similarity! Wire, twice removed!! Aye, I remember seeing Menswear performing "Daydreamer" on TOTPs and nearly choked on me tea when the singer opened his mouth and Colin's voice came out...Colin must've felt like he was at his own funeral! Even my dear old Dad ( A big "I am the Fly" fan) noticed the similarity and he likes C&W and big-band jazz! Terrible.....and what was the other Elastica song that sounded like "Being Sucked in Again"? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:46:52 EST From: RobertJazz@aol.com Subject: Re: idealcopy-digest V2 #11 Hello all, Can I first and foremost say thank you to all who have come to my support both on this list and privately. I was going to prepare a longer statement regarding the accusations made by "Mr. WMO, Charles" in regards to his slanderous and yes even, libellous remarks made against me regarding my asking of a simple fan trade for a Wire video compilation. Instead, I have this to say: 1) It's hard to read all of my mail and I have not been a subscriber to this list for that long. I subscribe to the digest format of this list to make things easier. I have been on the WMO web site many times, but honestly, missed anything regarding an official video release on there or on this list. The proper thing to do would have been to let me know about it. I will always purchase an official band product first and formost if it is made available. Rather, I got alot of offers from folks on this list more than willing to trade with me and never once were the official videos in question mentioned for purchase, or was I directed to the WMO for an offer of sale of said videos. Then, the first thing I read on this list are "Mr. WMO"s" remarks made against me. Did he email me to let me know of the official video? No, he did not... 2) I have been a Wire fan since first hearing 'Pink Flag' upon it's release. 3) I do not like most mailing lists because of their "old boy's club" elitist attitude. One would think Wire's list would have been different. 4) I've spent quite a great deal of money on past "official" Wire product. those imports don't come at too low a cost for us smelly Americans. I have not finished with WMO yet. As a representative of the Wire organisation, I hope you realise just what you've gotten yourself into "Mr. WMO". While I understand being against unofficial product, there was no call for these remarks. I wonder what the band members will think of all this... Yours, - - Robert Jazz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:53:06 -0600 From: "Mack" Subject: Re: Wire on the radio >If it's not too late to come in on this, I mentioned a while ago hearing a >clip >of Wire on a Tigers baseball broadcast in Detroit last September (something >off ABIACUIIS, I forget which). Prior to that the last time was on WDET, >the NPR station at Wayne State University in Detroit - Martin Bandike played >Ear Drum Buzz. He has a wonderfully eclectic playlist, how nice to be >unconstrained by commerciality! As a former Detroiter, this warms my heart Can't remember if this is the same Martin who used to order imports at Dearborn Music, but if so... He was directly responsible for bring much Manchester Music to Detroit's attention on the 70s/80s >When I lived in Detroit I used to listen to 89X but find their play list so >predictable and unadventurous for a supposed modern rock station, >it's all sub-heavy metal these days, very dull. These things come and go for the most part when they get institutionalized in the US, they get dull d ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:47:05 -0800 From: "tube disaster" Subject: Re: radio zzzzzzzzz - - >well i'm glad my original mail on radio got some response. i'll add a few more comments. it sounds like us radio maybe isn't so bad , i found some good stations in big cities (san francisco/san diego/pittsburgh/toronto , don't ask me what they were called) but away from there it seemed like endless white classic rock and not much else. i had 3 weeks in the deep south last year and its really hard to find a station playing anything later than about 1979 (and i'm talking foreigner not 154 , in case you wondered)< Only if you stuck to the sticks. Otherwise, Southern cities have the same run of "alternarock" stations, playing vapid Marcy Matchbox Blind soundalikes, as anywhere else. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:21:38 -0400 From: Mike Edwards Subject: Internet radio. Anybody on the list that wants to check out radio on the internet should go to THE MIT LIST OF RADIO ON THE INTERNET. http://wmbr.mit.edu/stations/bc.html This list is a bit overwhelming (there are alot of stations on the internet playing God knows what), but I can highly recommend the previously mentioned WREK in Atlanta. If anybody knows of any other great Internet radio stations please post them here, or drop me a line. As far as Wire on the radio, I still hear "Kidney Bingoes" on WHFS here in D.C. every once in a while on what they call their "Flashback Cafe". Oldies, anyone? Until the previous mention here I had no idea that "Voice " was a companion piece to" Bastard". I love all Colin and Graham's solo stuff, but I do have a strong leaning at my advanced age to prefer " It Seems" and "Commercial Suicide". The first couple seem a little frantic to me now. I like all Graham's stuff, including the noisier and more abstract stuff. I can't seem to get my head around Bruce's stuff, but that is probably my own block, and not meant as some slight to him. Finally, I chastise myself often for not buying more from WMO. I'm looking forward to hearing Po', and Colin and Malka's new one, but the days when I'd buy records and eat beans have sadly gone forever. My wife, she's funny about eating beans. Women. See ya' Mike E. - -- Come see the Mike und Pat reader! http://members.tripod.com/~CFT/MACHINEHEAD.HTML (updated 1/99) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 9:59:41 +0100 From: paul.rabjohn@tunnplat.ssab.se Subject: Re[2]: snap that elastic did anyone out there ever hear the menswear lp? i guess it sold very little , i seem to recall the follow-up single to the "hit" was a dreary ballad. i was wondering if the rest of the lp was worth the bother (i guess you could pick it up for nothing if you looked around).any ideas? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: snap that elastic Author: MIME:smj@zen.co.uk at INTERNET Date: 12/01/1999 21:52 According to the NME, Elastica are no more. Whether any more recorded material surfaces will remain to be seen. Despite "Line Up" and "Connection", I always thought Menswear were far more guilty of ripping off Wire. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #12 ******************************