From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V2 #8 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, January 10 1999 Volume 02 : Number 008 Today's Subjects: ----------------- re: BIG FUCKING WARNING ["aargh@erols.com" ] Re: video [Sergey Kazachenko ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:08:34 -0500 From: "aargh@erols.com" Subject: re: BIG FUCKING WARNING Charles, How dare you insult people like that? You may view me as a crackpot, but I feel what I need to say need's to be say, and I'm posting it publicly so that others may see that at least one consumer views your letter as distasteful in the extreme and can tell you why. First, I have a large tape collection and that's the sort of thing I might ask. Since I only have one Wire concert on tape, I thought I might see if anyone had any more. I appreciate that were I to do so I would immediately be branded a smelly old bootlegger, when in fact I have higher aspirations than just simply being a merchant. So thanks so fucking much for killing my enthusiasm as a Wire fan. Second, those bootleg people may possibly hawk a Wire video but I can tell you they're not going to move as many copies as Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd. The most esoteric thing that I've ever seen in that situation was Van Der Graaf Generator on television performing "A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers" in its entirety, and I'm in New York City. The man gave it to me for $5 because it had been sitting there for the past 15 swap meets and I was the first person to show interest. Bluntly put, I do not think you've got anything to worry about in that department. In fact, I've been at many a swap meet, including the WFMU convention where you'll see a lot more than your run of the mill mersh bands, shopping for odd items and the ONLY Wire thing I've ever seen besides the common albums was the three-inch Kidney Bingos CD. And that's not for keeping an eye out for it. If I were to see Wire at a video hawker's booth I very well might pass out from the surprise. I was surprised to see a video by the Tubes! Thirdly, WMO sells to the PUBLIC. You run the risk of an enterprising soul copying what you have anyway, simply because you offer it for sale. If that person wants to get it, he'll most likely get it from you, because he's thinking all he has to do is sell a few and he'll get his money back. If this one point didn't occur to you then I wonder how well WMO is actually doing financially. Fourthly, I do know people who do this sort of thing for a living and I can tell you generally they're not going to be interested as long as the collection is readily available from its source. They're interested in things that WMO hasn't put out (Electric Ballroom as a single item in its entirety, anyone? The Dome show excerpted on Tyranny of the Beat?). As far as their making a living out of it -- they're not making a living. They're eking out an existence and that's why they're smelly. Price and generations do not go up as long as the material is readily available at a reasonable price from the source. From my viewpoint, the only difference between you and the smelly old men is that you have the band's blessing and they don't. Of course this somehow makes you more valid than them -- snicker, snicker. I, too, shun most of WMO's things, because though I would like to have them, I don't consider them to be worth the price and the aggravation of mail order. Knowing how inexpensive it is to actually press up CD's, having Dischord's example of a label who routinely offers items and inexpensive rates and nice booklets inside, and being disgusted by the minimal packaging and inflated price of "Turns And Strokes", I see your letter and a) feel extremely insulted as a fan, b) wonder whether a letter like that one that comes to my attention from someone from the company makes that company worth my time and money, and c) see an awful lot of whining like the majors do over the likes of Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd, over a situation that if it exists exists on such a diminuative level that you may actually show up at the swap meets yourself with your own little Wire booth and actually have a monopoly on that market very easily were you to choose to do so. Fifthly, there are far more people like me -- I'm just simply a collector, who'll make one or two copies for friends and that's it -- than there are them. If you're worried about your sales (and I would guess that would be your motivation) people like me are the people you have to worry about, but you can't do anything about us. After all, home taping is killing music, right? Sixthly, even if WMO didn't exist, the Wire candle would be kept burning because the fans love them so much. Stop patting yourself on the back in public. We're the ones who should be singing your praises and if you don't hear us being loud enough then there is indeed something wrong, isn't there? Seventhly, by writing that letter you insult everyone on the list as a consumer. If one of us on this list couldn't see the situation for ourselves and responded to him, he got a break. But he'd still get it one way or another if he's not simply a fan who listens to everything. And eighthly, I love Wire. I have most of the albums from the first time around, and a few WMO things, and quite a few related projects. But I also listen to everything myself. I'm just as likely to put on the Rat Pack as I am Wire. If all you listen to is one sort of music you're not very musically nourished -- you don't sit down to eat chicken vindaloo, chicken vindaloo, chicken vindaloo, and chicken vindaloo. Some of us as fans appreciate the music for it being sculpted air molecules hitting our ears, and don't let things like whether it's rock or punk or experimental or different or our grandparents got into it get in the way of the enjoyment of those air molecules. I do not expect an apology to be forthcoming, but likewise you shouldn't be expecting any money to be forthcoming from me either. I would far rather not have any more Wire stuff than I do if you don't have the common decency not to show your self- importance and greed so obviously like that. Sincerely, Keef. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 14:05:23 -0500 From: Sergey Kazachenko Subject: Re: video I am a bit outdated so please enlighten me: as i understand, there is a video tape distributed by someone on the list who has copyright on it? if the producer of the tape has an agreement with Wire than he is the owner of the copyright and copying it would be illegal if there is no such agreement than the person who distributes the tape is stealing from Wire (to my mind, but i am not a lawyer) On the other words, if Wire does not want to be engaged in this video (i.e. does not put official "yes", but does not blame the bootleg producer) than the tape is copyleft and anyone can trade/make copies/whatever Sergey Kazachenko aka Syarzhuk ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V2 #8 *****************************