From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V1 #188 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, December 21 1998 Volume 01 : Number 188 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: The Haring [Max Schmid ] Re: The compilation tape for the car [Sergey Kazachenko ] Re: oh, you know, comments and such-like ... [Craig Grannell ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 05:04:45 -0500 From: Max Schmid Subject: Re: The Haring At 04:30 AM 12/20/98 -0500, Craig wrote: >complaints that it's not 'musical'. I think the good thing with The >Haring is that it isn't a music / pop album, it's not a Dome >(experimental noise) album - it's closest companion is spoken word - >kind of Burroughs-esque. Also, it cannot be just heard, it needs to >be -listened- to (and there is a difference). Andrew described it as >a TV show without the TV which was kind of nice. I'd liken it to a >cross between that and a book ... maybe a soundtrack for a book. Do you mean - like RADIO? Is it forgotten in England too? I thought the BBC still did that on a regular basis. My poor suffering lost art form! Max Schmid - Producer - WBAI-FM, NYC GOLDEN AGE OF RADIO and MASS BACKWARDS http://www.oldtimeradio.com Jean Shepherd Catalog: New Address! http://www.advanix.net/~jsadur/shepcat.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:34:31 -0500 From: Sergey Kazachenko Subject: Re: The compilation tape for the car >Everyone seems to love "Turns And Strokes" but >me; the soundquality is, in my opinion, deplorable. Or, better put, it's >deplorable that such a thing was released, given the sound quality. Some >bits are, however, quite good. To my opinion, the best tracks on T&S sound the worst because of the lo-fi recording. Panamanian Craze is good, anyway, if you have guests who don't want to leave :) Sergey Kazachenko aka Syarzhuk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:57:03 +0100 From: professor ned Subject: Re: compiling an ABC Craig Grannell wrote: >>I really find most of that intelligent/electronica/what you >>will crowd a bit tedious if the truth be known (this would >>include just about anything Colin's done in the last five years or so). >Not nearly as tedious as punk thrash guitars. Agreed. >And as for Colin's recent stuff, My Pet Fish has to be the -least- >tedious (and one of the best) things I've heard in years. Haven't heard this particular one, so I can't argue. But... >Having said that, the only track on Bastard I found tedious >was the opener, the rest was anything but ... See, I just didn't enjoy that record at all. Which is fine. It's also fine that people like it. I just wish I could understand why. Interestingly enough, it was right about the time Malka showed up ("It Seems", I think) that I found the quality of Colin's solo work starting to go downhill. "Commercial Suicide" does, however, have its moments of brilliance to be sure... [Whore] >I really hated most of the straight or rock covers, including Godflesh >(though the more leftfield ones such as MBV are okay). ??? MBV's was almost a straight-up, note-for-note cover! Mind you, I think it's great, but far from 'left-field' by my definition of the term. (Like the Lush cover, it shows the extent to which MBV were Wire-influenced to an almost laughable degree. Not to say that "Loveless" isn't a perfect piece of work which has spawned dozens of second-rate rip-offs in a desperate attempt to emulate one of greatest records of the decade.) I found the Godflesh cover really good because it was done in their sound, sort of. Godflesh is rarely so subdued. I suspect I'd enjoy a lot more of the versions if I knew what the bands involved tend to sound like on their own. Chris Connelly's lounge version of "A Mutual Friend" is another highlight IMO. [The Haring] >I completely disagree with most people's reading of this. I've heard >several people on and off this list with that opinion and even >complaints that it's not 'musical'. It's not musical (although what is 'musical', then?). It is very much spoken-word. These qualities alone do not a bad record make (in fact, they can - and have - made many a good record). I have a feeling, however, that it will fail to appeal to a large number of Wire fans expecting something Wire-like. >>"Coatings", put quite simply, rocks. >Yup, apart from that bongo mix of In Vivo. Yuck. Why was that put on there, anyways? The 7" version or something of that nature would have been far preferable, or even the "Illuminated" remix that showed up on the "In Vivo" 12" (which included several, equally deplorable mixes of the title track in the style of PK's Mad Bongos version). I don't know why "Life In The Manscape" was never released in the UK; the two b-sides are excellent tracks, in many ways superior to a lot of the material that actually made it on to "Manscape". [Pre>He] >It still sounds like Boyd Rice / NON to me. But then I like NON ... Very well put. NON tends to get thrown into my rather large group of stuff labeled 'tedious', but when he's on, there's nothing like it. >Mind you, have a listen to Pre>He and then the last two tracks of >HSO's Matching Crosses. Enduring themes, methinks... I forget that this is out now. "Catch Supposes" was a great record. I take it that the remix chapter comes recommended? - -ned Symbol nás zajímá nejen pro to, co przedstavuje, ale i pro to, co je. http://www.gestalt-media.com/stromkern ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:21:33 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Grannell Subject: Re: oh, you know, comments and such-like ... - ---Max Schmid wrote: >I'd liken [The Haring] to a ... soundtrack for a book. > Do you mean - like RADIO? Is it forgotten in England too? I thought > the BBC still did that on a regular basis. My poor suffering lost art form! Okay, good one. Yes, I'd liken it to a radio broadcast, or more broadcast-s-, it's like flicking through the stations and catching glimpses of odd stories and narrations. However, the BBC is hardly good radio (and one of our better stations XFM got mangled some years ago). - ---professor ned wrote: >Interestingly > enough, it was right about the time Malka showed up ("It Seems", I think)> that I found the quality of Colin's solo work starting to go downhill. > "Commercial Suicide" does, however, have its moments of brilliance to> be sure... > It seems I'm often playing devil's advocate here (although I have always expressed my genuine tastes). Personally, I think Colin's output has -improved- somewhat since Malka's arrival (which was on Commercial Suicide as far as Colin's albums are concerned). Although I think that release is merely okay and sometimes a bit dull, It Seems is an excellent record. And although Voice was not great Bastard certainly was. IMO, of his first three (solo) releases, Not To is sometimes great, Fish is kind of like what he's doing now but without the same life or energy, and A-Z ... well, long time readers of this list with a good memory will know what I think of that record so no need to repeat myself (+ I've had enough flames due to those earlier comments!!) The reason I like Bastard is it has both a contemporary sound and also a degree of originality. It takes both pop ideals and building through repetition and layers and adds great energy through the beats. I find that much less tedious than the tried and tested verse/chorus/verse/chorus/middle8/ ... 'pop' format. Also, Bastard has varying styles which adds to the listening experience ... it moves. And it's great for in the car too! My Pet Fish is better though (IMO, beating all Colin's and even Wire's past efforts) and through the addition of vocals and a few tracks with a more standard arrangement it may prove more popular. Having said that, there have been precious few comments about that album on this list. > [The Haring] >I have a feeling, > however, that it will fail to appeal to a large number of Wire fans> expecting something Wire-like. Probably true. However I think many of the Wire albums have also failed to appeal to fans expecting something "Wire-like". I'm not sure if there is such a thing as the band were always changing their sound (although, rarely their texts). Basically, the solo projects should be considered in their own space for their own strengths. Any comparision with Wire (or indeed Bruce or Graham's new stuff to Dome or Colin's Swim~ stuff to the Beggar's releases) is futile. > I don't know why "Life In The Manscape" was never released in> the UK; the two b-sides are excellent tracks, in many ways> superior to a lot of the material that actually made it on to > "Manscape". I thought that too. A couple of those tracks would seem at home in the later released First Letter. Maybe Wire's market in the 'States was bigger at the time ... who knows? > I forget that [Matching Crosses] is out now. "Catch Supposes" was a great record. > I take it that the remix chapter comes recommended? > Remix would probably be the wrong term. Deconstruction / reconstruction is more like it. The tracks bear little resemblance to the originals and the last two (individually by Bruce and Graham) are heavily effected loops that sound like Dome. HSO's reworking of Roy Orbison's Blue Bayou is chuggingly beautiful. The opener is a rather irritating Jazz version of Solid or Vanish (although it's title 'Here be us Chickens' is quite fun). The other two tracks are pretty good so 5/6 decent tracks has to be worth at least some consideration. Craig. == - ---------------------------- Craig Grannell-------------- www: SNUB.COMMUNICATIONS - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk Wireviews - http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wirehome.html - ---------------------------- cngrannell@yahoo.com ------- "Creativity is the highest civilising faculty - Ben Okri" - --------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:55:51 -0500 From: Geoffry Subject: it begins with one, followed by two . . . > The reason I like Bastard is it has both a contemporary sound and also > a degree of originality. It takes both pop ideals and building > through repetition and layers and adds great energy through the beats. > I find that much less tedious than the tried and tested > verse/chorus/verse/chorus/middle8/ ... 'pop' format. the 'contemporary' sound of bastard can be just as restrictive as any 'pop format'. . .g. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V1 #188 *******************************